Originally posted by gothweb
Didn't something like that happen with Bush?
Didn't something like that happen with Bush?
2004 should be fun
why am I thinking of sideshow bob?
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not yet
2004 should be fun
why am I thinking of sideshow bob? -
Still want a recount huh? Talk about denial.Originally posted by punkworld
Bush got less votes than Gore...
Point being, people did vote for Bush.Comment
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This might give some useful info on Iran's weird little political system:Originally posted by gothweb
I guess what I mean is that I doubt the honesty of the claims of "Democracy" in Iran. However, I don't know a ton about that country, so I can't say with authority.
If it is a Democracy, then I think a homosexual should work for reform. If the personal danger became an issue, that would certainly count as "trying hard enough", in which case nobody can argue if they leave.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/619419.stm
Being homosexual bears the death penalty in Iran, but personal danger isn't really an issue... after all, you can just not have sex with anyone. But would that make leaving the country by gay men cowardice? Personally, I don't think so.../(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
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His brother, governor of the deciding state, told his Secretary of State to confirm Bush's electoral votes. When challenged, the conservative Supreme Court confirmed that decision. So, with a minority of the popular vote (legal and acceptable) and a forced result on the electoral vote, he became president.Originally posted by USA Is Doomed
not yet
2004 should be fun
why am I thinking of sideshow bob?
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well, if the choice is to be gay, or be shot ...Originally posted by punkworld
This might give some useful info on Iran's weird little political system:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/619419.stm
Being homosexual bears the death penalty in Iran, but personal danger isn't really an issue... after all, you can just not have sex with anyone. But would that make leaving the country by gay men cowardice? Personally, I don't think so...
j/k!Comment
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Gore got more votes nationwide. The electoral system, however, is not based on the total number of votes.Originally posted by Furious_Female
Still want a recount huh? Talk about denial.
Point being, people did vote for Bush./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
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I feel that an Iranian homosexual should try to change things, before leaving. If it is illegal to have gay sex, but not illegal to campaign to change that law, then I think it's a choice not forced. They can choose to change their country. Leaving instead of trying to make a change is betraying the rest of the homosexual community. Then again, the threat of death is pretty extreme. We have no such worries in the US, so we should still try to change the system, rather than moving.Originally posted by punkworld
This might give some useful info on Iran's weird little political system:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/619419.stm
Being homosexual bears the death penalty in Iran, but personal danger isn't really an issue... after all, you can just not have sex with anyone. But would that make leaving the country by gay men cowardice? Personally, I don't think so...
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I see your point, but the phrase 'flogging a dead horse' comes to mindOriginally posted by gothweb
I feel that an Iranian homosexual should try to change things, before leaving. If it is illegal to have gay sex, but not illegal to campaign to change that law, then I think it's a choice not forced. They can choose to change their country. Leaving instead of trying to make a change is betraying the rest of the homosexual community. Then again, the threat of death is pretty extreme. We have no such worries in the US, so we should still try to change the system, rather than moving.
why not just get on with your life in a more liberal country ...Comment
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Because eventually, there will be no countries left moving forward. Because people in your home country, especially those without the money for an international move, will suffer or die. Because Democracy is undermined if people don't express and push for their beliefs.Originally posted by USA Is Doomed
I see your point, but the phrase 'flogging a dead horse' comes to mind
why not just get on with your life in a more liberal country ...
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Anyone that believes that the USofA is "not a repressed nation of impoverished and uneducated people that do not know any better" is wearing blinders. Currently, international human rights organizations are objecting to both our internal and foriegn policies, we are one of the largest debtor nations in the world and, well if you think our school system is healthy, you're comparing it to some third world banana republic. America's school system sucks hind titty, fyi.
And as far as "not knowing any better", the average american doesn't have a clue. The public has bread and circuses while Nero fiddles. I mean, americans are so clueless they actually beleive that the paper they have wadded in their pockets is real money!<CENTER><A HREF="http://www.hot-off-bourbon.com/" target="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://www.hot-off-bourbon.com/images/hob-logosmall.jpg" border="0"></A>
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Florida had a law in place prior to the Presidential election providing a deadline for a confirmation of the vote. It was this law that was enforced...and it was the Gore side that challenged a standing state law...long story short...Gores side lost. FYI there were multiple recounts done by various organizations...some partial recounts in some of the "disputed" counties and full state wide recounts...every single recount showed that President Bush had the majority of the votes.Originally posted by gothweb
His brother, governor of the deciding state, told his Secretary of State to confirm Bush's electoral votes. When challenged, the conservative Supreme Court confirmed that decision. So, with a minority of the popular vote (legal and acceptable) and a forced result on the electoral vote, he became president.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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All the available evidence in Iraq shows Saddam won by over 99% too.Originally posted by theking
Florida had a law in place prior to the Presidential election providing a deadline for a confirmation of the vote. It was this law that was enforced...and it was the Gore side that challenged a standing state law...long story short...Gores side lost. FYI there were multiple recounts done by various organizations...some partial recounts in some of the "disputed" counties and full state wide recounts...every single recount showed that President Bush had the majority of the votes.
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quote:
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Originally posted by gothweb
Are you honestly saying that there could be no solution to the problems the US faces that don't resort to totalitarian betrayals of the rights we have been guaranteed?
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No I haven't said that...but then again "totalitarian betrayals of the rights" is your opinion and that of a small minority.
quote:
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I disagree with that estimation. And if it came to that, I think it would be better to risk further attacks, than to become the kind of country we should be so opposed to.
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"The kind of country we should be so opposed to"...once again your opinion and that of a small minority.
quote:
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As for disagreeing with the majority, it's a right in an democracy. The majority is often uninformed, especially when their government is lying to them. Part of democracy is the right to share your ideas, to bring others over to your way of thinking. And even if it wasn't about that, I still have the right to hold and defend a minority opinion.
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Yep...one is free to disagree with the majority. Oh...I see...the 69% majority in the poll that favor the Patriot Act are uninformed but the 22% that think the Patriot Act goes to far...are the informed ones.
By the way how many letters have you mailed/faxed to your Congressman since President Bush has taken office and since 9/11...or do you even know your Congressman's name?When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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So you are saying one should sacrifice his own happiness for the greater good? And not doing so is cowardice? Even if a person decides to do so based on the consideration that he values his own quality of life higher than that of others?Originally posted by gothweb
I feel that an Iranian homosexual should try to change things, before leaving. If it is illegal to have gay sex, but not illegal to campaign to change that law, then I think it's a choice not forced. They can choose to change their country. Leaving instead of trying to make a change is betraying the rest of the homosexual community. Then again, the threat of death is pretty extreme. We have no such worries in the US, so we should still try to change the system, rather than moving./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
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Yes.Originally posted by punkworld
So you are saying one should sacrifice his own happiness for the greater good? And not doing so is cowardice? Even if a person decides to do so based on the consideration that he values his own quality of life higher than that of others?
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Why cowardice? Selfishness, maybe, but cowardice?Originally posted by gothweb
Yes./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
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Originally posted by fiveyes
Anyone that believes that the USofA is "not a repressed nation of impoverished and uneducated people that do not know any better" is wearing blinders. Currently, international human rights organizations are objecting to both our internal and foriegn policies, we are one of the largest debtor nations in the world and, well if you think our school system is healthy, you're comparing it to some third world banana republic. America's school system sucks hind titty, fyi.
And as far as "not knowing any better", the average american doesn't have a clue. The public has bread and circuses while Nero fiddles. I mean, americans are so clueless they actually beleive that the paper they have wadded in their pockets is real money!
I found it funny that reported on the news was comments from delegates from the WTO meeting in Cancun.
Delegates (*actual people involved in the political process*) compared dealing with the US now to dealing with the USSR in the 1980's
apparentely, the US team spent most of the time holed up in the hotel
it's one fucked up administration
and they're going to pull out all the stops to win the next election. I would put money on the fact, and when it comes to this I really don't believe they have a conscience.
and once they win the next election, they'll just keep going towards their goals to get rid of all social security (by basically bankrupting the Government according to some informed people - so there's no choice but to get rid of medicare, pensions...etc.) and grabbing for oil, more international military bases, less working with allies...
In a global economy, being politically isolated ain't clever
but someone forgot to tell Bush & Co that.Comment
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I know that... but it was said no one voted for him, which isn't true.Originally posted by punkworld
Gore got more votes nationwide. The electoral system, however, is not based on the total number of votes.Comment
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The difference between the US and other countries, the very reason it was created as a nation, was to protect our rights. I don't mind saying that there is a kind of country the US should be. Not from a moral perspective, even, but from a hypothetical perspective-- Which is to say, if you want to live up to your own standards, you have to do X. If the US wants to live up to its own standards, it has to remember the constitution.Originally posted by theking
quote:
"The kind of country we should be so opposed to"...once again your opinion and that of a small minority.
Yep...one is free to disagree with the majority. Oh...I see...the 69% majority in the poll that favor the Patriot Act are uninformed but the 22% that think the Patriot Act goes to far...are the informed ones.
By the way how many letters have you mailed/faxed to your Congressman since President Bush has taken office and since 9/11...or do you even know your Congressman's name?
I did not say everyone who agrees with me is informed, and that everyone who disagrees is uninformed. I do think that the difference in the numbers is influenced by the fact that far too many people are uninformed, or lied to.
No letters or faxes. I have only sent a few emails to my representatives in the last couple of years. All of them have expressed worried over Bush's policies.
Senator Judd Gregg (R)
Senator John Sununu (R)
Congressman Jeb Bradley (R)
Congressman Charlie Bass (R)
Unfortunately, it's going to take consistent application of my vote to make the difference there, given who my reps are.
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Selfishness in the face of danger is cowardice. If you prefer the word selfishness, that doesn't bother me. The basic message is the same.Originally posted by punkworld
Why cowardice? Selfishness, maybe, but cowardice?
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Originally posted by Furious_Female
I know that... but it was said no one voted for him, which isn't true.
previous post:
quote:
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Originally posted by gothweb
Ah well, if white trash and ghetto thugs think things are cool, I guess it's all okay.
America is becoming a wealthy, powerful nation with an unstoppable military machine, that shows no responsibility in using it. It is run by men, all of them unelected (even, but not limited to, the President) who are openly giving big business they have close connections to exclusive access to the financial opportunities created by a war they lied to start.
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Originally posted by Furious_Female
This is how diluted Democrats are, they actually believe NO ONE voted for Bush!
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Where do you see: NO ONE voted for Bush... are you that dumb????
It was said that nobody was ELECTED ... can you understand the difference ????I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !
But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....Comment
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Actually, it is not. Rational deliberation leading to a choice founded in your own values can hardly be called cowardice, imo.Originally posted by gothweb
Selfishness in the face of danger is cowardice. If you prefer the word selfishness, that doesn't bother me. The basic message is the same./(bb|[^b]{2})/Comment
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That's your opinion, then. To me, an act where you avoid something you fear, that you could face, is a form of cowardice. However, I am not interested in arguing semantics. I think you understand my basic position already.Originally posted by punkworld
Actually, it is not. Rational deliberation leading to a choice founded in your own values can hardly be called cowardice, imo.
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self interest isn't it?Originally posted by punkworld
Actually, it is not. Rational deliberation leading to a choice founded in your own values can hardly be called cowardice, imo.
we can't all choose to be martyrs and sacrifice our life for the 'greater good'
but for those who want to, nobody's going to stop themComment
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The webmaster of RaiseTheFist.com got nailed with the Patriot Act. He spoke out against the government, and they found something to take him down with.Comment
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We still seem to be arguing the semantics of "selfish" versus "self interest" versus "cowardice". I think there are more interesting things going on in this thread than that, don't you?
Unfortunately, it's wicked late here. I am headed to bed. I look forward to seeing where the discussion goes without me.
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Referring back to the poll...21% felt that the Patriot Act does not go far enough...and 22% felt that it goes to far...one can assume that both pro and con must be informed or they could not make a decision that it goes to far or not far enough. So lets assume for the sake of argument that the 48% majority that are OK with the Paatriot Act are not informed...it still breaks down to a virtual 50-50 split for the informed ones.Originally posted by gothweb
The difference between the US and other countries, the very reason it was created as a nation, was to protect our rights. I don't mind saying that there is a kind of country the US should be. Not from a moral perspective, even, but from a hypothetical perspective-- Which is to say, if you want to live up to your own standards, you have to do X. If the US wants to live up to its own standards, it has to remember the constitution.
I did not say everyone who agrees with me is informed, and that everyone who disagrees is uninformed. I do think that the difference in the numbers is influenced by the fact that far too many people are uninformed, or lied to.
No letters or faxes. I have only sent a few emails to my representatives in the last couple of years. All of them have expressed worried over Bush's policies.
Senator Judd Gregg (R)
Senator John Sununu (R)
Congressman Jeb Bradley (R)
Congressman Charlie Bass (R)
Unfortunately, it's going to take consistent application of my vote to make the difference there, given who my reps are.
The House and Senate are a virtual 50-50 split...the last Presidential election was a virtual 50-50 split...the people pro or con about the Administration is a virtual 50-50 split with the majority of the split favoring the Administration. This is usually pretty much the same way that it is for every Congress and every Administration...with varying temporary fluctuations.
In this country there are three ways to change policy...one become an activist...two stay in touch with your congressman and the whitehouse...third is to vote.Last edited by theking; 09-14-2003, 07:01 PM.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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The US is a Republic, not a Democracy. One of the reasons for that is that it is important to protect some minorities, even when the majority prefers something else. The Constitution has elements to stop even a large majority from taking this country in some directions. That's why some kinds of laws are illegal. I feel that includes the Patriot act, though only time will tell.
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They say the apple never falls far from the tree. This is definitely true in the case of the Bush family. This little story about Dubya's Daddy is quite an eye opener:
When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates had the following exchange with then Vice President Bush.
Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?
Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.
Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?
Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.I used to get high on life but then I built up a tolerance.Comment
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Time and the Courts will determine the legality of some, or all, aspects of the Patriot Act. Congress enacts laws...Law Enforcement enforces the law...and the Courts decide the legality of the Laws.Originally posted by gothweb
The US is a Republic, not a Democracy. One of the reasons for that is that it is important to protect some minorities, even when the majority prefers something else. The Constitution has elements to stop even a large majority from taking this country in some directions. That's why some kinds of laws are illegal. I feel that includes the Patriot act, though only time will tell.Last edited by theking; 09-14-2003, 07:07 PM.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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funny that isn't itOriginally posted by Joe Average
Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
which god?
if it's the christian god, wouldn't that make the US a theocracy?
no wonder they're so interested in the middle east
"my god is better than your god. how dare you believe in allah. here, have a cluster bomb ..."Comment
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Wow.Originally posted by Joe Average
They say the apple never falls far from the tree. This is definitely true in the case of the Bush family. This little story about Dubya's Daddy is quite an eye opener:
When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates had the following exchange with then Vice President Bush.
Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?
Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.
Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?
Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
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I agree. I just worry about who put the Supremes in their seats. The best hope may be that some day, hopefully soon, the pendulum will swing the other way and we will get people in power who can undo some of the damage. Hopefully before too many people are jailed on trumped-up charges.Originally posted by theking
Time and the Courts will determine the legality of some, or all, aspects of the Patriot Act.
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It was said that the President was not ELECTEDOriginally posted by directfiesta
Where do you see: NO ONE voted for Bush... are you that dumb????
It was said that nobody was ELECTED ... can you understand the difference ????
Main Entry: [3]elect
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin electus
Date: 15th century
transitive senses
1 : to select by vote for an office, position, or membership <elected her class president>
2 : to make a selection of <will elect an academic program>
3 : to choose (as a course of action) especially by preference <might elect to sell the business>
Synonyms: CHOOSE 1, cull, mark, opt (for), optate, pick, prefer, select, single (out), take
Related Words: decide, determine, resolve, settle; conclude, judge; accept, admit, receive
By definition, Bush was not chosen? You keep calling me dumb, but you confuse yourself with your own posts
Comment
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Source please?Originally posted by Joe Average
They say the apple never falls far from the tree. This is definitely true in the case of the Bush family. This little story about Dubya's Daddy is quite an eye opener:
When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates had the following exchange with then Vice President Bush.
Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?
Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.
Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?
Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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But wait, there's more:Originally posted by gothweb
Wow.
On October 29, 1988, Mr. Sherman had a confrontation with Ed Murnane, cochairman of the Bush-Quayle '88 Illinois campaign. This concerned a law- suit Mr. Sherman had filed to stop the Community Consolidated School District 21 (Chicago, Illinois, suburb) from forcing his first-grade atheist son to pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States "one nation under God" (Bush's phrase). The following conversation took place.
Sherman: American Atheists filed the Pledge of Allegiance lawsuit yesterday. Does the Bush campaign have an official response to this filing?
Murnane: It's bullshit.
Sherman: What is bullshit?
Murnane: Everything that American Atheists does, Rob, is bullshit.
Sherman: Thank you for telling me what the official position of the Bush campaign is on this issue.
Murnane: You're welcome
I used to get high on life but then I built up a tolerance.Comment
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google.comOriginally posted by theking
Source please?
use it you lazy fuckComment
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What about upstanding citizens? We're pornographers. And you're a spammer with 8 computers running if I remember correctly. I'm sure using <>< could be considered terrorism under the patriot act.Originally posted by Furious_Female
Does anyone believe these modifications will actually sacrifice liberties of everyday upstanding, law abiding citizens?
Rare injustices in the system have ALWAYS existed. It's not often that you hear about your normal, middle class, by all association "innocent" neighbor being hauled off to jail and awaiting an indefinite court date... if they didn't do something suspicious or that breaks the law.
You know what they say about not doing the crime, if you can't pay the time.icq 279990726
www.mcdonalds.com <- great money making opportunityComment
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Google is not a source...it is a search engine.Originally posted by USA Is Doomed
google.com
use it you lazy fuckWhen you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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you don't say?Originally posted by theking
Google is a search engine.Comment
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I remembered the quote from over a decade ago and just used google to find many, many references to it: http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...e+not+citizensOriginally posted by theking
Source please?I used to get high on life but then I built up a tolerance.Comment
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but theking couldn't have used google himself? oh no ... that wouldn't have been annoying enough. and he's got to stay in character, otherwise people might start thinking he was pathfinder... ;)Originally posted by Joe Average
I remembered the quote from over a decade ago and just used google to find many, many references to it: http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...e+not+citizensComment
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Yes I promote porn, that doesn't make me a non upstanding citizen. I never admitted I was a spammer... I have 10 computers and none of them use ><> for anything and like I said, I can and will adapt or move on.Originally posted by cluck
What about upstanding citizens? We're pornographers. And you're a spammer with 8 computers running if I remember correctly. I'm sure using <>< could be considered terrorism under the patriot act.
Comment
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Funny stuff...and a candidate is entitled to an opinion...and even a President.Originally posted by Joe Average
I remembered the quote from over a decade ago and just used google to find many, many references to it: http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...e+not+citizensWhen you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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it does in ashcr<b></b>oft's eyesOriginally posted by Furious_Female
Yes I promote porn, that doesn't make me a non upstanding citizen.
do you not understand that?
or are you ignoring the issue and crossing your fingers that it will pass you by and won't affect your business and your livelihood?Comment
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Well, I don't see snopes anywhere in that listing...Originally posted by Joe Average
I remembered the quote from over a decade ago and just used google to find many, many references to it: http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...e+not+citizens<CENTER><A HREF="http://www.hot-off-bourbon.com/" target="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://www.hot-off-bourbon.com/images/hob-logosmall.jpg" border="0"></A>
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Absolutely. I'm glad at least he was honest about it.Originally posted by theking
Funny stuff...and a candidate is entitled to an opinion...and even a President.
However, I wonder what the reaction would have been had he used "muslim", "liberal" or "negro" instead of "atheist".I used to get high on life but then I built up a tolerance.Comment
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That would be because it isn't an Urban Legend.Originally posted by fiveyes
Well, I don't see snopes anywhere in that listing...
It's on the public record. He said it and he obviously believes it.I used to get high on life but then I built up a tolerance.Comment
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it does amuse me that 'leaders' in the US consider those who *don't* believe in fanciful and supernatural tales as wrong, and as having a dangerous outlookOriginally posted by Joe Average
Absolutely. I'm glad at least he was honest about it.
However, I wonder what the reaction would have been had he used "muslim", "liberal" or "negro" instead of "atheist".
funny shitComment
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If Ashhahahahaha or anyone thinks I am less of an upstanding citizen for what I do, that's their opinion and they're entitled to it. There's Republicans and Democrats that agree and disagree with him. Until it becomes illegal, I am not doing anything but being morally challenging. As of now, I pay my taxes and I am not breaking any laws. Maybe I stretch the code of ethics and piss off some services, but if you think the whole net should go unregulated, as it already is... you are a fool. Right now, it's basically a free for all. To our benefit for the most part, but eventually it will turn into a nightmare.Originally posted by USA Is Doomed
it does in ashcr<b></b>oft's eyes
do you not understand that?
or are you ignoring the issue and crossing your fingers that it will pass you by and won't affect your business and your livelihood?Comment
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