WARNING: Don't do business with Probilling! - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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Platinum Lantern

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#1

WARNING: Don't do business with Probilling!

08-27-2003, 08:50 AM

After 2.5 months of business

$4,200 in sales
$72 in chargebacks

My account has been closed because I'm over the 1% chargeback limit.

No warnings, no fines, just immediate account closure.

I have a kick ass members area also, Oh Well
Back To the hustle...

Good Bye to the 89 happy monthly recurring members I had...

Hello my future corporation and business with ccbill, epoch, or ibill
And future business partnership

Oh and guess what..
they aren't even going to pay me this week

Going to hold my payments for 6 Months....
Way To Go Probilling...

Great Way to do business

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Dirty F

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#2

08-27-2003, 09:02 AM

Every company has to stay under the 1% right?

You will have the same problem with your next billing company.
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#3

08-27-2003, 09:03 AM

With how many xboxgames did it come? ;P.
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#4

08-27-2003, 09:09 AM

Did probilling use your total transactions vs chargebacks or just Visa transactions to determine your ratio?

I thought the 1% was for Visa transactions only. Well, atleast that's how it is with Paycom.
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Platinum Lantern

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#5

08-27-2003, 09:10 AM

I feel like with the number of transactions I had..
and the short length of time I was doing business was to soon to close my account...

What if you just started this week
had 50 sign-ups in a month and 1 chargeback?

Think about it...

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#6

08-27-2003, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by machinegunkelly
I wouldn't say that has a thing to do with probilling at all .
All processors will do the same thing , as that is what they are required to do with the new regulations ,

" do not do business with probilling " ??

Seems to me they are fully within their rights and responsibilities as a processor

Wrong.
Most of the legitimate IPSP's, and I can think of four, will not terminate you without notice. There are formal procedures that they go through with their banks to first monitor and then potentially terminate you. They may fine you by passing through cb fines from their bank, but they will not usually outright terminate you unless due to fraud or breach of contract without working with you.
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#7

08-27-2003, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Platinum Lantern
After 2.5 months of business

$4,200 in sales
$72 in chargebacks

4,200 in sales equal how many sign ups?
72.00 in charge backs equal how many charge backs?

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Platinum Lantern

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#8

08-27-2003, 09:16 AM

6 chargebacks

5.99 for trials
$29.99 monthly

basically a few cheapasses decided they didn't want to pay for porn....

and I lose out...

This came via NO WARNING, nothing from probilling except an e-mail telling me that it was OVER...

I smell a sinking ship...
Pirates, you gotta luv em

ARRRRRRRGH!!

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CHMOD

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#9

08-27-2003, 09:20 AM

ProBilling are very unprofessionnal.

They are responsible for the chargebacks they get !!

3 of my members have complain to me that they have cancelled their memberships and are still being rebilled ! I can't imagine how many don't complain and just chargeback.

Also, many pay for accessing my site and their passcodes are never added to my .htpasswd file ! Some complain, some must simply chargeback too..

With other CC processors, my chargeback ratio has always been around .50% - .65%

But yesterday, ProBilling sent me this warning:

_____________________________________________

Warning

Due to your account's chargebacks approaching proBilling's accepted threshold we are sending you this courtesy email. In the event that your chargebacks rise above our acceptable threshold, the ability to accept payments using probilling will been suspended, your account's balance and reserve may be held and only will be released upon request (pending future chargebacks, adjustments and fees) after 6 months. Please refer to the information below on chargebacks, effective August 27th.

Almost all of our merchants have a very low chargeback count, to help encourage proactive measures by merchants to further avoid chargebacks, additional fees will be charged on high chargeback accounts.

Effective August 27, 2003:

_______________________________________________

Again, I'm sure their lack of professionalism is responsible for my supposely high chargeback ratio.

I'm sure they are the next going down.

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#10

08-27-2003, 09:21 AM

How many transactions did you have for the same period where the 6 CB's were made?

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wargames

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#11

08-27-2003, 09:22 AM

Well thats how merchant account work these days. I wouldnt go with a merchant account unless you have at least 1k members. That way u dont get screwed when you get 2 chargebacks with 80 members. Thats why the rates are so high on 3rd party billers

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#12

08-27-2003, 09:22 AM

That's fucked up man!

Better luck with your next processor...

I don't endorse a god damn thing......
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#13

08-27-2003, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Platinum Lantern
6 chargebacks

5.99 for trials
$29.99 monthly
ARRRRRRRGH!!

So basicly you were running at 7.5% chargeback level? 81 members, 6 charge backs?

Or did the 6 come from this month only, and a large number of those members come from last month?

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Platinum Lantern

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#14

08-27-2003, 09:28 AM

Hello,

Account closed

Due to your account's chargebacks being over proBilling's accepted threshold your account has been locked, your sites have been rejected, the ability to accept payments using probilling has been suspended. Your account's balance and reserve is held and will be released upon request (pending future chargebacks, adjustments and fees) after 6 months. Current members will continue to have access to your site for the period they purchased, when recurring payments are due for rebilling, their subscriptions will automatically expire and a rebill will not be processed. If you have any questions please feel free to contact us through email.

Regards,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JJ
Investigations &
Merchant Services
proBilling Inc. Phone: 1.866.233.2242
Local:1.403.233.2228
Ext. 2236
Fax: 1.403.277.7996
Email: [email protected]
URL: www.proBilling.com

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#15

08-27-2003, 09:28 AM

Hate to say it...it's the Nature of your Niche.

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#16

08-27-2003, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by pine
Hate to say it...it's the Nature of your Niche.

What niche is being effected?

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#17

08-27-2003, 09:37 AM

Perhaps the closure of your account had nothing to do with your chargebck ratio. Perhaps they closed your account because getting information from you is like pulling teeth from a bear.

Chargeback ratios are determined using the total number of chargebacks vs. the total number of transactions. It has nothing to do with dollar amounts. Saying that you had 6 chargebacks without knowing how many transactions you had means nothing. Saying you had $72 in chargebacks with $4200 in sales means nothing.

How many TOTAL transactions did you have during that period?
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#18

08-27-2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by JMM
Perhaps the closure of your account had nothing to do with your chargebck ratio. Perhaps they closed your account because getting information from you is like pulling teeth from a bear.

Chargeback ratios are determined using the total number of chargebacks vs. the total number of transactions. It has nothing to do with dollar amounts. Saying that you had 6 chargebacks without knowing how many transactions you had means nothing. Saying you had $72 in chargebacks with $4200 in sales means nothing.

How many TOTAL transactions did you have during that period?

thank you.

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#19

08-27-2003, 09:39 AM

fucked up

specially after reading this

"3 of my members have complain to me that they have cancelled their memberships and are still being rebilled ! I can't imagine how many don't complain and just chargeback."
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#20

08-27-2003, 10:08 AM
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#21

08-27-2003, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by pine
Hate to say it...it's the Nature of your Niche.

Are you trying to say that black guys are cheap? That's racist!

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#22

08-27-2003, 10:14 AM

Maybe my imaginiation but when this 1% shit first kicked off properly wasn't there a statement to do with it being on account over 100 SU's weekly or somesuch? Can't remember the details now.

Ignorance is never bliss.
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#23

08-27-2003, 10:15 AM

go with ccbill from the start and you will have no probs.
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#24

08-27-2003, 10:15 AM

This is Half assed post!

Without actual numbers you cant tell shit.
Please get your numbers straight cause it make No sensE.

First of all it is my understanding that the 1% ratio only affects you if you have more than 100 chargebacks a month!

Does even seem close to that with your numbers but then again im sure part of the story is missing there...
Sounds to me like you did 3-4 cb's on 140 or so transactions.
Please tell us the FULL story with real numbers.

Either way probilling doesnt look promising if these numbers are accurate.
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#25

08-27-2003, 10:45 AM

wargames

If you don't go with a merchant account unless u have 1k + members how do u get anyone to sign up unless u have a merchant account? how can u accept credit cards without them?

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#26

08-27-2003, 10:48 AM

Anyone?

Signature is for sale!

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#27

08-27-2003, 10:50 AM

I was also terminated by Probilling as I have been with them for only 2 months and they used the past 2 weeks as I had 30 signups and they said that because I chargedback 2 times that I was being terminated, with no warning. This is bullshit.

P.S. Are there any other processors that Canadians can go threw? Because I am canadian and I hope probilling isnt the only processor for canadians.

Thanks.

and FUCK YOU PROBILLING!

Last edited by frankthetank; 08-27-2003, 10:54 AM.
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lanclandesigns

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#28

08-27-2003, 10:51 AM

well how do you get members if you dont use a 3rd party biller/merchant account, what other processes can you use to accept credit card etc on your site?

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#29

08-27-2003, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by frankthetank

P.S. Are there any other processors that Canadians can go threw? Because I am canadian and I hope probilling isnt the only processor for canadians.

Thanks.

and FUCK YOU PROBILLING!

Drop me an email at [email protected] We have a LEGAL solution for Canadian paysite owners
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doober

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#30

08-27-2003, 11:11 AM

Frankthetank,

short answer is NO.
Canadians are fucked on this aspect!
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#31

08-27-2003, 11:14 AM

emmanuelle you have mail
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#32

08-27-2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by doober
This is Half assed post!

First of all it is my understanding that the 1% ratio only affects you if you have more than 100 chargebacks a month!

So you mean I can have 99 transactions and 98 chargebacks
and nothing will happen -
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doober

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#33

08-27-2003, 11:30 AM

for Jeroman,

Visa IPSP Program Changes
Effective October 1, 2003 Visa will lower their monitoring thresholds of its ?Merchant Chargeback Monitoring Program? for all merchants, regardless of their business classification, from 2.5% to 1%. In conjunction with that threshold decrease, Visa has raised the minimum number of chargebacks (cb?s) threshold per month to 100

read it all here
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...00+chargebacks

As for your question I cant really answer it but all the info i quoted is that thread....
either way....
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#34

08-27-2003, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by pine
Hate to say it...it's the Nature of your Niche.

no way....I'm at a .3% chargeback rate and I've been going for over two years in this niche.

Blacks and whites are willing to pay for porn and most of them are honest as long as they don't find a bunch of crap in the members area.

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#35

08-27-2003, 11:33 AM
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#36

08-27-2003, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Tipsy
Maybe my imaginiation but when this 1% shit first kicked off properly wasn't there a statement to do with it being on account over 100 SU's weekly or somesuch? Can't remember the details now.

Finally..someone brings up the 100 su's.
However, it's not visa doing the terminating here, but probilling.

Probilling did some sneaky stuff the last couple of weeks. I was one of several that had been with Probilling before, but let them last fall after they lost their merchant account and initiated heavy duty scrubbing.

About 3 months after I left, I noticed a sudden drop in the reserves that WERE going to be paid out of about $4500.00
There was no email, no explanation of why this was happening.
I wrote in, and got this response: "Oh, we forgot to take our share out of the initial signups you had, so this is our share we're taking out of your reserves.". That's it..no details, no itemization..just that SOMEHOW the company FORGOT to take their share off the top.

Now I ask you..is this TRUELY believeable that a billing company would "forget" to take their initial share of the pie?

So I left them and went to PSWbilling (can I pick them or what!) and CCBill as a backup. (Made a switch in order not to long afterwards!)

But 2 weeks ago I got all these emails "welcoming" me back to ProBilling and that all my sites were active with them. WTF!?!? I asked myself. I wrote them email about why this happened. Per the usual Probilling way of doing things, to date, have not gotten a response.

THEN, Probilling announced an increase of how much of the pie they get off of initial signups and that they were lowering the the "tolerance" level for chargebacks to 1% (no 100 signup exception here).

Bottom line..Probilling got a LOT of business when ACPAY and globil went out of business. After getting it, they changed the rules so they could keep a lot of the money that was comming in knowing many webmasters would very soon reach the 1% level.

Probilling is NOT a company you can trust or should use. ( I know..that's an understatment now!)

Last edited by Centurion; 08-27-2003, 11:40 AM.
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doober

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#37

08-27-2003, 11:40 AM

Thx for chipping in ceturion, interesting info you posted there...
So in the is probilling being proactive???
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#38

08-27-2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Are you trying to say that black guys are cheap? That's racist!

Nope....it's the little white kids who like to pretend they're internet hustlas. It's the middle aged white men who harbor deep-seeded interracial fantasies, but once their post-self coital depression kicks in, they decide to "get their money back". It's the free-porn/password message board drones who figured out long ago how to fraudulently use online-checks. Come to think of it, there might be some cheap black guys out there, too....

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#39

08-27-2003, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by frankthetank

P.S. Are there any other processors that Canadians can go threw? Because I am canadian and I hope probilling isnt the only processor for canadians.

Thanks.

and FUCK YOU PROBILLING!

YOu can use Verotel, Globosale.net, are two that come to mind.
I have my issues with Verotel but they pay on time and offer some good options for European customers.
You can also use CCbill.com and not accept Visa. Globosale is Ok ive never had any problems with them yet.
There are some smaller ones as well like Membershipplus.net. These guys are based in the U.S. so I would be careful cause they dont charge any fees.
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#40

08-27-2003, 12:42 PM

I was told by another IPSP rep that the 1% rule does not even kick in for smaller players until they are getting 100 chargebacks within a certain period of time (monthly I think).

This leaves the actual policies for SMALLER ACCOUNTS up to the IPSP's themselves.

With the information you provided, it's strange that probilling would have terminated you.

You wouldn't have gotten terminated at CCbill or Ibill with those numbers, not sure about Epoch.

This thread makes me thing Probilling is having some problems
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#41

08-27-2003, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by BVF

no way....I'm at a .3% chargeback rate and I've been going for over two years in this niche.

Blacks and whites are willing to pay for porn and most of them are honest as long as they don't find a bunch of crap in the members area.

Im at .2 with it as well.

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#42

08-27-2003, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Platinum Lantern
After 2.5 months of business

$4,200 in sales
$72 in chargebacks

My account has been closed because I'm over the 1% chargeback limit.

That is NOT how cb ratios are calculated, and what you've posted here is extremely slanted by you in your favor.

CB's are calculated per month and are calc'd on both transaction counts and dollar volume.

You do NOT take the total sales for 2.5 months and the chargebacks -- which will get much worse given the fact that you are just now starting to incur chargebacks-- for a single month and compare those to get a ratio.

Stop crying and start trying to figure out how to keep your surfers from charging back, obviously there appear to be serious issues with your site.
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Platinum Lantern

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#43

08-27-2003, 12:56 PM

KimmyKim

Shut the fuck up...

Coming at me with that bullshit..
I ran a good site..
and had a kick ass members area even by webmasters standards..

Even showed a preview of the members area to customers before they sign up...

Maybe your opinion is good most of the time..
but today it's not asked for, not needed, and incorrect

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#44

08-27-2003, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Platinum Lantern
KimmyKim

Shut the fuck up...

Coming at me with that bullshit..
I ran a good site..
and had a kick ass members area even by webmasters standards..

Even showed a preview of the members area to customers before they sign up...

Maybe your opinion is good most of the time..
but today it's not asked for, not needed, and incorrect

Kimmy is correct though. And with my site I have no problem staying under .2% chargebacks.

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#45

08-27-2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Platinum Lantern
KimmyKim

Shut the fuck up...

Shut the fuck up because I pointed out the bullshit way you slanted the numbers to make it look like you didnt do anything wrong and big bad Probilling was picking on you?

Numbers don't lie, but you sure did take the liberty of arranging their presentation to suit yourself.

Obviously your site isn't as good as you claim or you wouldn't be getting chargebacks at that level. To have been in business for 2.5 months then you haven't seen the chargebacks coming in until just now.

And apparently the number of chargebacks versus new joins that you have already is out of compliance.

IPSPs can and should, and imo, increasingly will, terminate individual accounts on the basis of the crap numbers that come into play.
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#46

08-27-2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Shut the fuck up because I pointed out the bullshit way you slanted the numbers to make it look like you didnt do anything wrong and big bad Probilling was picking on you?

Numbers don't lie, but you sure did take the liberty of arranging their presentation to suit yourself.

Obviously your site isn't as good as you claim or you wouldn't be getting chargebacks at that level. To have been in business for 2.5 months then you haven't seen the chargebacks coming in until just now.

And apparently the number of chargebacks versus new joins that you have already is out of compliance.

IPSPs can and should, and imo, increasingly will, terminate individual accounts on the basis of the crap numbers that come into play.

I do not think he understand, cmon get upset I know its in ya.

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#47

08-27-2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by freeadultcontent

I do not think he understand, cmon get upset I know its in ya.

LOL, I'm not going to get upset, he just needs to learn to add and subtract and figure out how ratios and fractions are calculated...

He's just upset because I pointed out the problems to him logically.
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#48

08-27-2003, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

LOL, I'm not going to get upset, he just needs to learn to add and subtract and figure out how ratios and fractions are calculated...

He's just upset because I pointed out the problems to him logically.

Damn it, well fuck now I got to find different entertainment.

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#49

08-27-2003, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by freeadultcontent

Damn it, well fuck now I got to find different entertainment.

Ahahahahahha!
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#50

08-27-2003, 01:15 PM

very bad
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