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Joe Average

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#1

Socialised Medicine: The Poll

08-26-2003, 09:44 PM

We have a system of socialised medicine here in Australia called Medicare and it has very wide popular support. No system is perfect but, by and large, things work.

I've noticed that Canadians seem to love their system of socialised medicine too and I understand why.

So, do you live in a country with socialised medicine? If so, do you like it? If not, would you like to see it introduced? Or do you hate the idea altogther?

Speak your mind!

33 Voters

I live in a country with socialised medicine and I love it!

0%

18 votes

I live in a country with socialised medicine and I hate it!

0%

0 votes

There's no socialised medicine in my country but I'd like to see it introduced!

0%

6 votes

There's no socialised medicine in my country and I don't want it!

0%

9 votes

Socialised medicine? I don't understand.

0%

0 votes

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#2

08-26-2003, 09:48 PM

fuck you commie pinks
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Joe Average

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#3

08-27-2003, 01:16 AM

bump.

I want a larger sample on this one. This subject interests me.

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#4

08-27-2003, 01:20 AM

When clinton wanted socialized medicine in the USA in 93 or whatnot, he wanted to instate a 8% tax to pay for it. Christ, Id prefer to pay the $1600 a year I do, write it off my fed tax return and be all the wiser.

I used to live 3 miles from the Canadian border and every day I'd see Canadians come down to the USA to get QUALITY health care in a timely fashion.

The Canadian system sucks and the tax for it is what 11% (some canadian please confirm).

Fuck that!

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#5

08-27-2003, 01:21 AM

I live in New Zealand and we have 'socialised medicine'. If you put your trust in the public system you will get inferior care than if you go private.

Quite simply if you want the *best* medical care you have to pay for it yourself.

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#6

08-27-2003, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by sacX
Quite simply if you want the *best* medical care you have to pay for it yourself.

And that's the way it should be. Private insurance should be encouraged as it is here in Australia with a generous tax deduction... but universal healthcare should be a given. There are many hard working people with families that can' t afford luxuries like health insurance.

Last edited by Joe Average; 08-27-2003, 01:31 AM.

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#7

08-27-2003, 06:55 PM

bump

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#8

08-27-2003, 07:51 PM

My blue cross bill is currently over $1,100 a month but I still prefer private insurance.

But the U.S. system badly needs an overhaul. The main culprit are the $5 copay plans which encourage verybody to waste as much money as possible because "somebody else pays the bills".

Example: When I used to have major medical only you had to save up prescriptions and submit when they hit 1K a year.

Consequently, I shopped for the best price on prescriptions like everything else.

Now that I pay a flat $10, I could give a shit if the bottle cost $90 and most get flushed, just human nature.

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#9

08-27-2003, 08:05 PM

Ther system in the U.S.A. is a disgrace. To many working people can't afford health care or insurance. I would like to see us adopt a system like Canada, even though I know a lot of Canadians that complain about it.

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#10

08-28-2003, 01:40 AM

i don't think there's a country in the world that has got close to the perfect health care system. It will have to be something of a hybrid of private versus public.

Also a lot of it depends on how big health is made a political issue... If people are busy complaining about crime, or gun control then health care won't get the money I believe it deserves.

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#11

09-04-2003, 02:45 AM

bump for Colin.

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#12

09-04-2003, 02:54 AM

Originally posted by Joe Average
bump for Colin.

I don't like the idea of socialized medicine, Joe. That's nothing more than a personal preference about what kind of world I want to live in. It can't really be argued or debated. There's not much interesting to say about it. What one ultimately regards as the role of government is pretty much philosophical.

That being said I feel relatively confident that we will have socialized medicine in the US eventually.

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#13

09-04-2003, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by Colin
That being said I feel relatively confident that we will have socialized medicine in the US eventually.

And what does that tell you?

It works.

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#14

09-04-2003, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by Joe Average

And what does that tell you?

It works.

So you think that every government institution and decision exists because "it works"? Doesn't sound like you, Joe. By the same logic we could say we currently don't have socialized medicine in the US because it doesn't work.

I say we'll have socialized medicine in the US not because it works but because of the nature of the system of law-making and people's desire for free services. I believe it is likely that someday there will be an administration who will pass national healthcare. Once you have a such a service that provides something of value for free to many people it will be very difficult to reverse it.

I hope it hasn't escaped your attention that the nature of government is to grow and increase services. That is the nature of politics and governance. That and the fact that it is easier for government to add services than remove them is why I believe we'll have eventually have socialized medicine in the US.

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#15

09-04-2003, 03:21 AM

In the UK we have state funded hospitals and medical care - this we pay for with 'national insurance' deducted from our pay packet.

Although the service is not always fantastic I wouldn't want to be without it, and of course you can go private if you like.

Another advantage of this that we can receive free medical assistance anywhere in Europe, as can any other europeans that come here.

I really would hate it to loose this system - I'm sure a lot of people die in the good ol' USA because they are they are too poor to pay for medical care.

I think everyone has a right to free medical care.

I don't endorse a god damn thing......
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#16

09-04-2003, 03:36 AM

Originally posted by blazin
In the UK we have state funded hospitals and medical care - this we pay for with 'national insurance' deducted from our pay packet.

Originally posted by blazin
I think everyone has a right to free medical care.

For philosophical reasons, we may not agree but look at what you just said. You said you pay for it and then said it's free. Can't be true. You ARE paying for your health care, of course. Your government didn't create those services out of thin air.

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#17

09-04-2003, 03:37 AM

Originally posted by Colin
I hope it hasn't escaped your attention that the nature of government is to grow and increase services. That is the nature of politics and governance. That and the fact that it is easier for government to add services than remove them is why I believe we'll have eventually have socialized medicine in the US.

As long as those services benefit the people I have no problem with it. I have a very strong belief in an effective welfare system. I'm not a socialist, nor am I a capitalist. I'm a realist. A pragmatist. Socialised medicine works well, so what's the harm?

Take a look at the poll results.

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#18

09-04-2003, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by Colin
You said you pay for it and then said it's free. Can't be true. You ARE paying for your health care, of course. Your government didn't create those services out of thin air.

I think what he meant is that people agree with the way the system is funded.

Here in Australia Medicare is funded by a 1.6% levy applied to gross income. Incidentally, private insurance is encouraged with one third of the cost able to be claimed as a tax deduction.

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#19

09-04-2003, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by Joe Average

As long as those services benefit the people I have no problem with it. I have a very strong belief in an effective welfare system. I'm not a socialist, nor am I a capitalist. I'm a realist. A pragmatist. Socialised medicine works well, so what's the harm?

Take a look at the poll results.

Joe, you're a socialist. No doubt about it.

Remember the political test you took? You scored #1!

Most Left Economically
-7.12 JoeSixpack
-5.12 IronHorse
-5.12 JFK
-4.62 EvilChris
-4.50 Forest
-4.38 sarettah
-4.25 PornoDoggy

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#20

09-04-2003, 04:17 AM

Originally posted by Colin

Joe, you're a socialist. No doubt about it.

Remember the political test you took? You scored #1!

Most Left Economically
-7.12 JoeSixpack
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-4.62 EvilChris
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Hmmmm... so I did.

Feel free to label me a socialist if you like but I certainly don't see myself as one. I think socialism is filled with good ideas and bad ones. So is capitalism. I think they work better together... an economic hybrid that encourages enterprise and economic growth but protects all the people, especially the disadvantaged.

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#21

09-04-2003, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by blazin
In the UK we have state funded hospitals and medical care - this we pay for with 'national insurance' deducted from our pay packet.

Although the service is not always fantastic I wouldn't want to be without it, and of course you can go private if you like.

Another advantage of this that we can receive free medical assistance anywhere in Europe, as can any other europeans that come here.

I really would hate it to loose this system - I'm sure a lot of people die in the good ol' USA because they are they are too poor to pay for medical care.

I think everyone has a right to free medical care.

yes it's US the rich country and people can't get health care or go to college...

I don't think that is fair.

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#22

09-04-2003, 05:17 AM

Originally posted by Joe Average

Hmmmm... so I did.

Feel free to label me a socialist if you like but I certainly don't see myself as one. I think socialism is filled with good ideas and bad ones. So is capitalism. I think they work better together... an economic hybrid that encourages enterprise and economic growth but protects all the people, especially the disadvantaged.

I too believe in a hybrid system. I believe that a capitalistic system with a few safety nets (certainly less than you) and institutions such as a central bank is the way to go.

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#23

09-04-2003, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by maxjohan
yes it's US the rich country and people can't get health care or go to college...

I don't think that is fair.

Anyone can go to college in the US. I was born into a poor family and received enough grants and loans to go to one of the best Universities in the world. No one paid my way. I have no problem with repaying my debts.

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#24

09-04-2003, 05:27 AM

I live in California...and in California health care is available to everyone...including illegal immigrants...via multiple means...including Medical. I would assume that most if not all states in the union have similar programs.

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#25

09-04-2003, 05:30 AM

Originally posted by theking
I live in California...and in California health care is available to everyone...including illegal immigrants...via multiple means...including Medical. I would assume that most if not all states in the union have similar programs.

So if I were sick would I be able to go to the local doctor and see him/her without handing over cash?

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#26

09-04-2003, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by Colin

Anyone can go to college in the US. I was born into a poor family and received enough grants and loans to go to one of the best Universities in the world. No one paid my way. I have no problem with repaying my debts.

You are 100% correct. Anyone that has an average IQ and the will to do so can get a college degree...as well as advanced degrees...in the US. Scholarships...grants...student loans...work study programs...or a stint in the military...are ways to attend college.

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#27

09-04-2003, 05:35 AM

Socialized medicine is pretty much the only socialist type program I would support.

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#28

09-04-2003, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by Joe Average

So if I were sick would I be able to go to the local doctor and see him/her without handing over cash?

If you had a medical card you could go to any doctor that accepts Medical cards...not all do. If you did not possess a medical card you could go to any County Hospital...or if you were delivered by ambulance to the emergency room of any hosptital...you would be treated without having to hand over cash. There are also many free clinics througout the State. Without the Medical card you would be billed by the County Hospitals and private Hospitals based upon your ability to pay. $10.00 per month would be sufficent pay if that was the extent of your ability to pay...$0 if that was your ability to pay.

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#29

09-04-2003, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by theking

If you had a medical card you could go to any doctor that accepts Medical cards...not all do. If you did not possess a medical card you could go to any County Hospital...or if you were delivered by ambulance to the emergency room of any hosptital...you would be treated without having to hand over cash. There are also many free clinics througout the State. Without the Medical card you would be billed by the County Hospitals and private Hospitals based upon your ability to pay. $10.00 per month would be sufficent pay if that was the extent of your ability to pay...$0 if that was your ability to pay.

Sorry I prefer our system. Yours seems like a fuck around.

I have a Medicare Card. Every Australian citizen is entitled to one. With this card I can visit approximately 80%+ of medical centres in the country and see a doctor just by presenting my card and signing a form.

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#30

09-04-2003, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by Joe Average

Sorry I prefer our system. Yours seems like a fuck around.

I have a Medicare Card. Every Australian citizen is entitled to one. With this card I can visit approximately 80%+ of medical centres in the country and see a doctor just by presenting my card and signing a form.

Your preference is yours...but it is a fallacy that is perpetuated...that only people of means can receive health care...or attend College in the United states.

I do not know what percentage of Doctors accept Medical cards in California but my guess would be that it would be something less than 50%...as most Doctors charge more for their services than Medical will pay for a specific service.

Socialized anything is not a good solution...because goverment run agencys are inefficient and there is not any incentive for any individual to do more than the minimum necessary.

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#31

09-04-2003, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by FATPad
Socialized medicine is pretty much the only socialist type program I would support.

Socialized medicine sounds good...but in reality we are better off without it. I think that medical insurance is a better solution and this is what Congress should be reviewing. My

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