Bush refuses to update the power grid without drilling in Alaska

thats the exact propaganda that bush wants you to swallow, the blackout happened due to equipment failure/human error, not a lack of resources.

I don't know.

I lost.

yes there is. we have evidence of destroying ecosystems with dams, we have conjecture about CO2. Don't trees use CO2?

you saying it doesn't make it true.

And the blackouts in California?

Give me a break.

pot, meet kettle

It is always funny to me how conservatives confuse insults for debating. The 4th post of the tread by carrie.....

7th post by buff

I don't think I really need to even bring up 12dicks. The only thing he can say is the republican party line. The fact of the matter is that most of the lobbying going on to free up ANWR is from the logging companies. They wish to harvest old growth trees. These old growth trees can sell for nearly 3x that of new growth. So while I appreciate your desires to drill for more oil and have nuclear pawer plants on every street corner. At the very least you need to admit that the only reason ANWR is even being discussed is because our beloved President Shrub is looking to line the pockets of more political contributors. Say what you want about people who may place a higher value on preserving our environment for our children, but call a spade a spade. this is about insanely wealthy people becoming more wealthy.

Witout Dams america wouldnt be here.

LA in fact would not be here without the LA aqueducts Mullholland built. LA started with 10+ families and many died, this is the desert, without water we will not survive.

What rivers have we changed directions and dammed to better this country.

Countless.

Dams made this country.

Especially in the old times with irrigation and water and sewer.

ahhhh, "driven"
you're perspective is as wide as your windshield. but hey, it fits your argument so run with it.

oh silly liberal. please pick out the old growth forests here:
http://arctic.fws.gov/scenes.html
I love dopey liberals who when the argument is lost, insist I only "say the republican party line"

can I help it if they'er right and you're wrong?

de-regulation caused a demand/supply mismatch, a rise in costs associated with creating electricity, and a broken whole sale market.

run along son. I'm not sure who you used to be but you were irrelevant then and the new name hasn't changed that.

Deregulation???

Hahaha

The government called it deregulation, so did the media and the leftists, but when you have pice controls on the retail market and barriers to production in place, you don't have deregulation.

Wind and solar power should be the future, I'd rather have gov't $ go into developing an efficient, affordable solar panel then send it to go drill in Alaska.

As far as blackouts are concerned, I don't see why they are raising a fuss about passing the shit separately just to get it done and over with for the people of the USA... then go and squabble over drilling.

And as far as the gov't handling the power grid... who else is going to do it? The bankrupt and corrupt power companies (not in their best interest profit-wise)? Or state run utilities (budget restrictions)? Give me a break here, it would require ALL the state governments and a foreign country (Canada) to work together, without arguments, on a power grid. How is that going to happen? By giving the responsibility to the FEDERAL gov't, which holds all the states together, and works hand in hand with foreign governments.

If it's a leftist thing to run to the gov't over the power grid, then please let me know how the right proposes to handle upgrading it?

its the generation of electricty that was de-regulated. transmission and distribution remained a regulated monopoly. the utilities were strongly encouraged to sell their power plants and were required to buy all their electricity needs from the wholesale market. the marketplace was *supposed* to ensure adequate supply and competition was supposed to drive down prices, leading to lower rates for everyone but this did not work due mostly to the reasons i posted above. not to mention most power plants in cali run off natural gas, and prices spiked...

Bush swallows

Why are so many people on GFY so fucking stupid???

The balance of idiots in the real world don't seem to match the quantity here.

Originally posted by dicknixon
After his shady election,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by 12 Clicks:
"decided by a liberal leaning supreme court"

LIBERAL leaning supreme court?
What alternate universe are you living in Clicks?

Bush swallows

Sure does - swallows the lot and cums back for more.

Do you mean like these pictures. Remember tough guy.....

I think you meant:

a conservative leaning supreme court would have struck down Roe v Wade. no?

hahahaha, pretty pictures. show us the site they came from or blow away liberal.

Are you really that inept I found them using google do an image search for anwr. By the way you have been dismissed. Go back to ranting incomprehensible mutterings about a liberal leaning courts that put Shrub in the White House.

sorry joker.
here's the official site:
http://arctic.fws.gov/scenes.html

chirp away about dismissal. I knew you wouldn't produce a link

you mean this?
http://images.google.com/images?q=AN...8&start=0&sa=N

how many pages deep did you have to get before you got a false result?

run along and try to gull the kids over on the pokemon board.
you're game doesn't belong here yet.

Thinking * Posts = Time

look, a typical lying liberal! who would have thought!
<img src="http://www-personal.umich.edu/~dallan/Uptree.gif" border="0" alt=""><img src="http://www.tarleton.edu/~range/Woodlands%20and%20Forest/Pacific%20Northwest%20Forests/Woodlands%20and%20Forest%20Slides_files/imageSSO.jpg" border="0" alt="">

now that second pic url is
http://www.tarleton.edu/~range/Woodl...s/imageSSO.jpg

I see pacific northwest in that url.

I guess if you give a liberal enough manure, he can grow an old growth forest around the artic circle.

Population reduction

why do you want to destroy basically the only untouched american land left? talk about selfishness. there are trees there if you want to believe it or not, but trees or no trees i guess nothing is sacred anymore. we can't keep living like there is a never ending supply of our resources, like someone else said the world has ween itself off its oil/crack addiction. either it's done with Human effort, or it's done after humans make the earth so they can't live on it anymore, whether it be overpopulation, pollution, etc, and either the population as a whole dies off, or the population is reduced drastically. im sure that won't happen in our lifetime but its inevitable.

oh and here is something pretty to watch
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/parks.html

yup, the liberal argument can be boiled down to "you bad selfish people" and some pretty cartoons.

you notice porn doot took flight after being exposed.

NO! No it wouldn't.

A right wing court WOULD have.

exposed for what doing an image search on google or listening to NPR? That is where I recieved my info on the logging companies. I definetely believe them before I believe you.

Just remember tough guy...........

sorry about the double post we are setting up our t1

im not liberal, i may agree with some of their views, as i do with some views of republicians. i just want what little beauty is left on this earth to remain.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

ANWR does nothing for me... a nice nuke plant up there.

thats the whole problem, america's "me" disease. no one cares until it effects them directly.

ahahahaha, I post the google search link proving you're a liberal liar (as those pictures don't exist on a google image search "of anwr") so now your info comes from NPR radio.
Good one. you were finally bright enough to use a source we can't verify.

run along lightwieght.

Funny.

Do you know where I'm from?

EVERYBODY KEEPS GETTING THIS ISSUE MIXED UP.


the grid is a network a distribution that needs updating. The energy can come from solar, wind, oil, pee, farts. It does not matter where it comes from or originates it is the distribution of the energy that is also a problem..

But once again republicans are owned:

In June of 2001, Bush opposed and the congressional GOP voted down legislation to provide $350 million worth of loans to modernize the nation's power grid because of known weaknesses in reliability and capacity. Supporters of the amendment pointed to studies by the Energy Department showing that the grid was in desperate need of upgrades as proof that their legislation sponsored by U.S. Rep. Sam Farr (D-CA) should pass.

Unfortunately, the Bush Administration lobbied against it and the Republicans voted it down three separate times: First, on a straight party line in the U.S. House Appropriations Committee, then on a straight party line the U.S. House Rules Committee, and finally on a party line on the floor of the full House [Roll Call Vote #169, 6/20/01].

As AP reported at the time, the amendment would have amendments that would have doubled the bill's money for energy assistance for the poor to $600 "provided $350 million to support loans to improve the capacity of transmission grids. 'It's pure demagoguery,' House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said in a brief interview regarding the Democratic amendments. 'If Democrats had an energy policy, they'd have had one in the last eight years. They have no credibility on this issue whatsoever. They are responsible for the energy crunch more than anybody I know.' Spotlighting the high political stakes, House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt, D-Mo., took the unusual step of issuing a written statement about the committee's energy votes. He said President Bush and Republicans are 'committed to helping the Big Energy special interests' and accused them of obstruction." [AP, 6/14/01].


Here's part of a news release (from June 21, 2001) by a Democratic Congressman who saw the Republicans fight against and defeat his effort to have the government provide loans to upgrade the nation's electrical grid

REPUBLICANS DENY REP. FARR'S AMENDMENT FOR ELECTRIC POWER GRID LOANS

'I'm disheartened that some Republicans continue to play politics while the energy crisis wreaks havoc on our lives,' Rep. Farr says

(Washington, DC) - Rep. Sam Farr tried to offer an amendment to an appropriations bill today that would provide funding for electric power grid improvements. The Republican-dominated Rules Committee refused to allow the amendment on the bill.

"One thing that's aggravated the energy crisis in California is the antiquated power grid infrastructure," Rep. Farr said. "Power gets generated in Southern California and squeezed up an 85-mile stretch of high-voltage wires in the Central Valley called Path 15. The demand for energy in the Silicon Valley and San Francisco far outstrips the capacity of Path 15, which is a dangerous bottleneck and needs to be overhauled."

Rep. Farr vowed to continue offering the amendment to other legislation this year. The amendment authorizes $350 million to fund direct loans and loan guarantees to improve electric power transmission systems in the United States. Under the amendment, the loans and loan guarantees can only be made after the Secretary of Energy approves them; determines that other commercial financing is unavailable and that an emergency exists, and finds that the projects they fund would maintain or improve electricity transmission.

Borrowers would have up to 25 years to repay the loans.

"This loan program would benefit people of all political stripes," Rep. Farr said. "And the loans could be used by public or private-sector groups to improve an electrical grid that is clearly outdated and overburdened in California and elsewhere. That's why I'm disheartened that some Republicans continue to play politics while the energy crisis wreaks havoc on our lives."

Rep. Farr said that while many Republicans are gradually coming to see the wisdom of intervening in what is obviously a dysfunctional energy market in the West, the Republicans on the Rules Committee that rejected his amendment is out of touch with the damage caused by the California energy crisis. Families are facing soaring energy costs, businesses are fighting for survival and political leaders who continue to ignore their plight do so at their own peril, he added.

And how does this illuminate Cheney's refusal to help California when it suffered rolling blackouts from the predatory behavior of the power companies and Gray Davis asked for help? Well, the Bush administration's and Tom DeLay's refusal to upgrade the electrical grid had a similar -- but even more dramatic -- impact on August 14, 2003

BUSH'S FUCKSTOCK = OWNED!!!

I did a search on google if you have a problem take it up with them. If you don't like NPR dont listen. But since you continue to sling insults. Why don't you get a life you abject loser. Or at the very least get a hobby. You embarass yourself with your mindless conservative prattle. You are like a senile old woman that can't get it through her head......

ANWR Education... Get Yours Here

i have flown over alaska and the usa too.. not the same perspective as standing in the midst of it.... my perspective goes way fucking beyond a windsheild dickabus headabus....unlike you, i''m not afraid of the big bad wolf....i actually leave my vehicle and go into the backcountry...


care to take a hike in Alaska with me.....i promise to inform your relatives of what happened to you when i get back

keyboard warrior.

not at all...little man.

What exactly makes that one sided presentation educational?

personally, i'm more concerned about what's going on in my back yard