How is recurring sponsor better than PPS???? no way! - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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Nardimus

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#1

How is recurring sponsor better than PPS???? no way!

07-11-2003, 01:33 PM

Of course for a kick ass site that is going to have a really long retention its better in the long run.... but from what i hear, the average retention of most paysites are 2-3 months tops.

assuming trials are $4.99 and rebill @ $29.95

------

So if i were to get 100 signups @ a new low payout of $25 with a PPS program.
And if you do over 50 signups a week you still get a $5 bonus so thats $30 per signup max.

Thats $3000 total

------

And.... if i were to get 100 signups from a recurring 50/50 program.

Thats 100 X 4.99 = $499
Lets say 50% of those trials convert to monthly = $1497.50
2 addtional months of retention = $2995
TOTAL = $4991.50
LESS 50% split = $2495.75
LESS 13% processors cut (give or take)
FOR A GRAND TOTAL = $2171.30

-----

Now thats 3 months until you make $2171.30
In the meantime you are still raking in the dough from PPS and by the time the 3 months went by you would be WAYYYY ahead in total revenue.

-----

Please ream me a new asshole so i can comprehend why i need to switch (or if i should) to recurring sponsors.
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#2

07-11-2003, 01:36 PM

Yes, recurring sucks ass. That's why the nice sponsor programs pay you per signup so you make more money.

..and I'm off.
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#3

07-11-2003, 01:37 PM

Well for one, DatingGold pays you 50% of sale, we pay the processing costs. DatingGold is also going to recur more than 2 months. We have very few chargebacks or refunds. No trials and we still are converting better than 1:200 for the day.
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#4

07-11-2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by detoxed
Well for one, DatingGold pays you 50% of sale, we pay the processing costs. DatingGold is also going to recur more than 2 months. We have very few chargebacks or refunds. No trials and we still are converting better than 1:200 for the day.

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#5

07-11-2003, 01:38 PM

the upside to recurring programs are

if you have a shitty month for sign ups you still have the recurring making you money

some members stay for years or forget or something. im still getting checks from a rev share program i haven't used since 99.

and last but not least, they are less aggressive in their signup procedures. cross sales, ect.

personally i like a mix of the 2. tho right now im only using PPS im looking for some partnership programs to get into.

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#6

07-11-2003, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by BlackCrayon
the upside to recurring programs are

if you have a shitty month for sign ups you still have the recurring making you money

but, if my #'s are right... if you were to have a shitty month....
you might still be making $ from recurring... but you'd be so far ahead from using PPS all those months would it make a difference?
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#7

07-11-2003, 01:43 PM

Some of the independant amateur sites that use CC Bill Or GloBill that I promote have very good retention. 4-6 months isn't unusual. The big sponsors I promote that have recurring progams seldom seem to see the second month rebill.

So if I am using a big sponsor I tend to go with their PPS and then use the smaller sites for my recurring money needs.

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#8

07-11-2003, 01:44 PM

I'd have to say if you sent traffic to similar sites you'd do better conversion with a partnership. Exit consoles are typically in partnership programs just for you and in pps they are to make them money.

You are best off mixing yourself 50% in each so that when you have a bad pps month or summer slowdown hits you have that recurring income to help you out.

It's sort of like having 2 processors if you run a paysite, best not to put all your eggs in one basket.
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#9

07-11-2003, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Nardimus

but, if my #'s are right... if you were to have a shitty month....
you might still be making $ from recurring... but you'd be so far ahead from using PPS all those months would it make a difference?

you might be right, its hard to give a definite answer as traffic is different, conversions are different ect. the definite downside to recurring is if the person cancels before the trial ends. its my job to get the surfer to the site and even buy a trial but its the sponsors job to have a nice enough site that they will want to stick around.

i've used mostly just PPS the past few years, and for the most part, they have been good to me. another nice point about PPS is that you can jump from one program to the next without much loss. pros and cons to both sides i suppose. tho i notice as of late, conversions with PPS are getting worse, maybe its just me, or the time of year, whatever. all i know is that i would be nice to be making some recurring income right now instead of nothing.

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#10

07-11-2003, 01:46 PM

There are a lot of holes in the above statement, but I'll point out a few of the most obvious.

1) You might get 100 signups with your PPS sponsor, but God knows you won't see all those signups appear in your stats. If you think PPS sponsors are going to payout $25, $35, etc. on your cancelled trials, you're smoking crack.

2) I don't know of many reputable recurring programs that make their WM's pay the processing fees.

3) I have seen some surfers stay for years...on average, the signups you get are worth more than $25/signup. It's your signup, you should get a part of every dollar they spend.

4) As other's have pointed out. You could stop promoting today and still get checks for the next year...free money!
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#11

07-11-2003, 01:48 PM

ya need both

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#12

07-11-2003, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by APN Philip
There are a lot of holes in the above statement, but I'll point out a few of the most obvious.

1) You might get 100 signups with your PPS sponsor, but God knows you won't see all those signups appear in your stats. If you think PPS sponsors are going to payout $25, $35, etc. on your cancelled trials, you're smoking crack.

2) I don't know of many reputable recurring programs that make their WM's pay the processing fees.

3) I have seen some surfers stay for years...on average, the signups you get are worth more than $25/signup. It's your signup, you should get a part of every dollar they spend.

4) As other's have pointed out. You could stop promoting today and still get checks for the next year...free money!

Exactly!! Not to mention there are alot of good sticky niche CCbill sites that pay 50/50 out of the 29.95 price and dont offer trials. We all know sticky niche content is far superior for retention. So forget trials and get paid 14 dollars and change for 3-5 months on a good site and your singin songs for awhile

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#13

07-11-2003, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by dantheman
ya need both

Proven fact - both is key ;)

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Nardimus

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#14

07-11-2003, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by APN Philip
2) I don't know of many reputable recurring programs that make their WM's pay the processing fees.

if you have a paysite your processor takes the 13% or so fees out of your total revenues.. .so what i was getting at was the final total... unless some special "reputable" program was feeling good and decided to be nice and add the extra 13% back into a webmasters payout.
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#15

07-11-2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Nardimus

if you have a paysite your processor takes the 13% or so fees out of your total revenues.. .so what i was getting at was the final total... unless some special "reputable" program was feeling good and decided to be nice and add the extra 13% back into a webmasters payout.

heh, i remember when epoch used to take out 2 bucks or something for 'check printing' and a load of other little stupid fees. do they still do that? i thought taking fees were a thing of the past, kinda at least.

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#16

07-11-2003, 02:11 PM

This thread is a joke.. Get a clue man

I'm not trying to be offensive, but this was the most positive comment I could come up with.
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#17

07-11-2003, 02:21 PM

I don't know. I'm still getting checks from a recurring sponsor I stopped pushing 2 years ago....

If you aren't afraid of failing, you're not pushing hard enough.
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#18

07-11-2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Nardimus
Of course for a kick ass site that is going to have a really long retention its better in the long run.... but from what i hear, the average retention of most paysites are 2-3 months tops.

assuming trials are $4.99 and rebill @ $29.95

------

So if i were to get 100 signups @ a new low payout of $25 with a PPS program.
And if you do over 50 signups a week you still get a $5 bonus so thats $30 per signup max.

Thats $3000 total

------

And.... if i were to get 100 signups from a recurring 50/50 program.

Thats 100 X 4.99 = $499
Lets say 50% of those trials convert to monthly = $1497.50
2 addtional months of retention = $2995
TOTAL = $4991.50
LESS 50% split = $2495.75
LESS 13% processors cut (give or take)
FOR A GRAND TOTAL = $2171.30

-----

Now thats 3 months until you make $2171.30
In the meantime you are still raking in the dough from PPS and by the time the 3 months went by you would be WAYYYY ahead in total revenue.

-----

Please ream me a new asshole so i can comprehend why i need to switch (or if i should) to recurring sponsors.

You forgot to deduct the 30-40% shave by PPS programs
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#19

07-11-2003, 03:28 PM

Some partnership programs shave too.
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#20

07-11-2003, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by jas1552
Some partnership programs shave too.

Beware of those who processes with johnnyonthespotbill.com

Recurring needs to be somewhere in your business model

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Nardimus

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#21

07-11-2003, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by Wilbo

You forgot to deduct the 30-40% shave by PPS programs

that is probably true, but how do you prove recurrings dont do the same thing? sure if they give you stats through the processor you can be sure, but the others with their own stats interface.... who knows.
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Nardimus

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#22

07-11-2003, 07:02 PM

and another thing... there are only like 5-10 or so partnership programs i can think of that are really reputable... all the others, whos to say they wont just shut down in a year and bam there goes your recurrings.

but if you keep it up at pps you cant really lose
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#23

07-11-2003, 07:03 PM

Show me the math, or shut up.

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#24

07-11-2003, 07:11 PM

Most revshare programs pay the biller fees out of their percentage.

When I say I pay 50%, I mean if someone signs up for a $24.95 membership to my site, you get $12.475, and each time it rebills for $19.95 you get $9.975. It doesn't take a very high average retention for that to make you more than $30.

Plus, if you send 100 signups, you get 50% of all of them-- not $35 for each of them that your sponsor decides to have count. Now that the $35 is going to $25 because they have to get rid of their "free" trials and sneaky cross-billing, things look better and better for revshare.

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Nardimus

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#25

07-11-2003, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by BradShaw
Show me the math, or shut up.

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Nardimus

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#26

07-11-2003, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by gothweb
Most revshare programs pay the biller fees out of their percentage.

When I say I pay 50%, I mean if someone signs up for a $24.95 membership to my site, you get $12.475, and each time it rebills for $19.95 you get $9.975. It doesn't take a very high average retention for that to make you more than $30.

Plus, if you send 100 signups, you get 50% of all of them-- not $35 for each of them that your sponsor decides to have count. Now that the $35 is going to $25 because they have to get rid of their "free" trials and sneaky cross-billing, things look better and better for revshare.

WHO HAS PROOF THAT PPS SHAVE?? I KNOW WE ALL THINK IT?BUT COME ON NOW, IF YOU DONT HAVE PROOF SHUT THE ShIZZY UP guy.
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#27

07-11-2003, 08:43 PM

This has always been a topic of contention. It really comes down to the marketing you do for a sponsor and the quality of the site you're promoting. I've used both and found recurring to be better. The recurs pick up the slack on days when there are few or no sales. It's always nice to be making money effortlessly with recurring.

Say you make $5k pushing PPS one month. That's a nice chunk of change. What about next month? You basically start from scratch. If you made $5k with recurring, you'd likely see %50+ the next month, so you could do no work at all and have an extra $2500 waiting for you next month. If you made another $5k on new sales well then, you'd have $7500 waiting for you.
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#28

07-11-2003, 08:50 PM

i promote sites where even a year or more since i stopped promoting them, i'm still seeing checks. so i love 'em both

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#29

07-11-2003, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Nardimus

WHO HAS PROOF THAT PPS SHAVE?? I KNOW WE ALL THINK IT?BUT COME ON NOW, IF YOU DONT HAVE PROOF SHUT THE ShIZZY UP guy.

oh come on,its 2003
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#30

07-11-2003, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by BradShaw
Show me the math, or shut up.

Can't argue with that. Fact is, recurring kicks ass.

If I stopped sending traffic tomorrow, how long would it take for those rebills to dry up? 4? 5? 6 months? Some of these guys have been there for 2 years+ but if this was a PPS deal, my income dies the second I stop sending.

I'm not going to get into the shaving argument, there's no need, but suffice it so say I've never done as well with PPS as I do with recurring.
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#31

07-11-2003, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by TeenGodFather
Yes, recurring sucks ass. That's why the nice sponsor programs pay you per signup so you make more money.
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#32

07-11-2003, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by Ludedude

Can't argue with that. Fact is, recurring kicks ass.

If I stopped sending traffic tomorrow, how long would it take for those rebills to dry up? 4? 5? 6 months? Some of these guys have been there for 2 years+ but if this was a PPS deal, my income dies the second I stop sending.

I'm not going to get into the shaving argument, there's no need, but suffice it so say I've never done as well with PPS as I do with recurring.

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#33

07-11-2003, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by Ludedude

Can't argue with that. Fact is, recurring kicks ass.

If I stopped sending traffic tomorrow, how long would it take for those rebills to dry up? 4? 5? 6 months? Some of these guys have been there for 2 years+ but if this was a PPS deal, my income dies the second I stop sending.

I'm not going to get into the shaving argument, there's no need, but suffice it so say I've never done as well with PPS as I do with recurring.

nice stats. which side of the coin are u on? the webmaster or the paysite owner?

to end ALL discussions here, its simple. Recurring is only good if members can stay long. PERIOD, FINISH, CLOSE THIS THREAD

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#34

07-11-2003, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Nardimus

WHO HAS PROOF THAT PPS SHAVE?? I KNOW WE ALL THINK IT?BUT COME ON NOW, IF YOU DONT HAVE PROOF SHUT THE ShIZZY UP guy.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

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#35

07-12-2003, 12:13 AM

We offer both methods of payment and have been around since 1996 -

And - We still have members from our early days - Rebill from those run into thousands of dollars! Shame every member didn't stay a lifetime!

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#36

07-12-2003, 12:25 AM

I know that most of the programs that we process for that have recurring/revshare programs through our system do not charge any processing or chageback fees.

Here are just a few:

spicecash.com
fetishcash.com
herbalo.com

and of course partnerpayouts.com

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Nardimus

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#37

07-12-2003, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by Ludedude

Can't argue with that. Fact is, recurring kicks ass.

If I stopped sending traffic tomorrow, how long would it take for those rebills to dry up? 4? 5? 6 months? Some of these guys have been there for 2 years+ but if this was a PPS deal, my income dies the second I stop sending.

I'm not going to get into the shaving argument, there's no need, but suffice it so say I've never done as well with PPS as I do with recurring.

wow thats great and all. but what period of time is this for? i can show you my pps stats of $230K for 1 year.
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#38

07-12-2003, 01:17 AM

So in your math you assume all 100 people canceled within 2 months??!??!

You're a fucking moron.
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#39

07-12-2003, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by Nardimus
Of course for a kick ass site that is going to have a really long retention its better in the long run.... but from what i hear, the average retention of most paysites are 2-3 months tops.

assuming trials are $4.99 and rebill @ $29.95

------

So if i were to get 100 signups @ a new low payout of $25 with a PPS program.
And if you do over 50 signups a week you still get a $5 bonus so thats $30 per signup max.

Thats $3000 total

------

And.... if i were to get 100 signups from a recurring 50/50 program.

Thats 100 X 4.99 = $499
Lets say 50% of those trials convert to monthly = $1497.50
2 addtional months of retention = $2995
TOTAL = $4991.50
LESS 50% split = $2495.75
LESS 13% processors cut (give or take)
FOR A GRAND TOTAL = $2171.30

-----

Now thats 3 months until you make $2171.30
In the meantime you are still raking in the dough from PPS and by the time the 3 months went by you would be WAYYYY ahead in total revenue.

-----

Please ream me a new asshole so i can comprehend why i need to switch (or if i should) to recurring sponsors.

i suck at math, but to beat around the bush if you can swing pulling your weight and get 65 percent of a kick ass retaining program like http://oliver-klozov.com then you are going to make a killing.... all exclusive, all original, pro work... that keeps memebrs happy....

also, youd be amazed how many ppl forget to cancel or for some reason or another stay for 9-14+ months.... im still getting like $500 a week from an old member site i stop accepting new signups for over 2 years ago, literally...

they both have their pros and cons, but partnership is the only 'job security' you can get in this industry IMO...

PPS, the second your traffic stops, so does your cashflow... your now fuct...

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#40

07-12-2003, 03:17 AM

I think it is pretty straight forward, if you are promoting a site with unique content, then a revshare deal will always shine through. My site has only been up for 10 months, it is extreme and unique and most members don't seem to want to leave.

I will be starting an affiliate program one day and a PPS deal would not be the way to go with this sort of site. Also I think most third party processors issue the handling fee to the affiliate program and not the reseller.

Spooky
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#41

07-12-2003, 03:37 AM

Can only speak for myself, recurring all the way. There is no comparison. You need to be careful with the traffic, and use the 'niches', but it didn't take long for me to dump PPS altogether.

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#42

07-12-2003, 05:38 AM

Amateur Pages ClicPic is the only sponsor you need...beats out per signup and recurring.
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#43

07-12-2003, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by Nardimus

wow thats great and all. but what period of time is this for? i can show you my pps stats of $230K for 1 year.

The period of time is meaningless for the purposes of this discussion since I didn't think this was a whose dick is bigger thread or I wouldn't have responded. The second you stop sending your traffic to a PPS program is the second your income dies while the recurring program will still be earning money from sales made months or even years ago. Only once the recurring billings have completely stopped can the income comparison be accurate.

As you can see, there is an insanely low chargeback ratio, the content is original and updated daily. Members love the site and stay loyal for a long time. Trust me, PPS is not the only way to play the game.
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#44

07-12-2003, 06:57 AM

aslong as you have patience, it usually takes around 3 months of signups for a Revshare to be almost like a per signup
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#45

07-12-2003, 06:59 AM

I use both.
You have to decide what one is best per sponsor.
I will say this,
I am taking a month off, and guess what I will still get paid.....

In the Math problem, you forgot to add, that is only for a 1 month signup, and 3 months of the recurring.
Try it for a year, but keep in mind, you almost always get more signups on revshare for the same amoutn of traffic, more than 50% convert. Most revshares I use don't have trials, so the first month is bigger anyway. and they stay a long time, but the next month when you have 50%+ stay add the new signups, and the next month, both the prior months members stay, and you get more new ones... see what I am getting at?

Well, also, no ones numbers are accurate, depends on the program, the traffic source, the content of the site....

It is all a guessing, and Math game...

Last edited by GotGauge; 07-12-2003, 07:03 AM.

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#46

07-12-2003, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by Ludedude

Can't argue with that. Fact is, recurring kicks ass.

If I stopped sending traffic tomorrow, how long would it take for those rebills to dry up? 4? 5? 6 months? Some of these guys have been there for 2 years+ but if this was a PPS deal, my income dies the second I stop sending.

I'm not going to get into the shaving argument, there's no need, but suffice it so say I've never done as well with PPS as I do with recurring.

2% chargeback, this one will get close soon
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Gunni

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Posts: 2385
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#47

07-12-2003, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Nardimus
Of course for a kick ass site that is going to have a really long retention its better in the long run.... but from what i hear, the average retention of most paysites are 2-3 months tops.

assuming trials are $4.99 and rebill @ $29.95

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So if i were to get 100 signups @ a new low payout of $25 with a PPS program.
And if you do over 50 signups a week you still get a $5 bonus so thats $30 per signup max.

Thats $3000 total

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And.... if i were to get 100 signups from a recurring 50/50 program.

Thats 100 X 4.99 = $499
Lets say 50% of those trials convert to monthly = $1497.50
2 addtional months of retention = $2995
TOTAL = $4991.50
LESS 50% split = $2495.75
LESS 13% processors cut (give or take)
FOR A GRAND TOTAL = $2171.30

Sorry, don't have time to read all the replies so I donðt know if some one said this.

Don't you see that the sponsers must make money when they pay you per signup! If the case was that the rebills wouldn't cover it then they wouldn't do it, simle as that. Rebills will make you more money in the long haul
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Ludedude

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Join Date: Jun 2001

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#48

07-12-2003, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net

2% chargeback, this one will get close soon

OK...sure...because you don't understand that the percentage is counted across sales + rebills? Jackass...think before you open your mouth. The chargeback ratio is 1/2 of one percent for this account.
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Gunni

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#49

07-12-2003, 08:20 AM

Ok, also, lets say you send 50 sups a week, in one year that's 2600, if 50% of them rebill that's 1300, can you imagine if you have one month with maybe 600 rebills + the new signups, that would pay you a lot more than 200 PPS
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Biggy2

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#50

07-12-2003, 08:21 AM

recurring sponsors won't shave you..

I can send 1000 clicks to a pay per sign up sponsor, make 1 sale, or zero sales, and get paid either 0 or $35.

Then I can send that 1000 clicks to another recurring program, get 5 sales, and i'm looking at $50 recurring.

Just a point in hand, its hard to pay 35/signup, etc. How do you think sponsors are able to do it, especially since most of the big programs sites are also the most generic ones out there, im sure their retention is kick ass (not)!!
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