IMPORTANT Topic: Why is the Content Business in Trouble?

exclusive is King.

I think its just the residual effect of it harder to make big money in this industry. Less profits, less money to spend on content. So the content guys do less sales and then have to resort to blowout sales.

I agree. But everything doesn't have to be exclusive. It's as if less than 10% of paysite owners (who need content) are willing to pay $50 to $100 a set. Which is still not much considering the cost of exclusive.

Too many guys with cameras!

Too many paysites!

i guess you got it wrong , in the last two year everyone and his dog have started producing content, and all produce the same content. magazine type bimbos , teens , or OVERPRICED pics that other smaller producers can sell you ( for same quality) for the quarter of the price.

also personally i won't buy pictures if the set doesnt have the corresponding video. paysite customers want videos , if you don't have them you won't sell your site . if as a content provider you don't have the video that goes with a particular set , i won't buy the set .

as simple as that.

nice thread

Interesting question posed here. I think certainly over the time the industry in every aspect is getting saturated so its definitely going to make things tight on a few people.

One day there will be more people involved than the industry can handle and there will be a small recession, a few people will go broke, it will decrease the number of competitors, sort of weed out the weak.

It's happened in every sector of the business, just a normal trend.

u wanna know why? because nobody ever gave a shit about content producers and watched as they were raped. and now that times are tougher in this biz, it's no longer feasible to shoot for licensed content - for all but a few, usually Europeans who have far smaller costs to doing business.

how much do u think it costs JokersX, Matrix and Cloud9 to shoot that glamour stuff? a lot.

Millions of TGP gallery pages out there now - how many do u think have licensed content on them? 50% even? nope.

Hosted galleries? How many programs even bothered to ask the content provider whether they could use their content in hosted galleries?

The still photos providers are toast - now it's the movie studios turn to be ass raped by the thieves and those who support their efforts.

it sucks, always has sucked.

if you want nice content come to me

and it's guys like you who will suffer because you depend on quality content and there's not going to be any - you'll have to open your own studio or buy exclusive content.

Buy my content.

I made a thread about this a very long time ago.

The loop hole of hosted galleries and content.

Few even bothered to take it seriously.

People need to remember the online side of the adult industry is not the WHOLE industry.

Content providers should always be doing print work and not just selling content online.

I dont even know how content providers can make it these days to be honest.

LA is overflowing with guys with camweras shooting and fucking 26 hours a day, a minute portion of them have anything online.

I think it's just something that will pass out. I think that before going to particular conditions, you'd go to general conditions that affects all states of adult biz, designers, content providers, paysite owners, TGP, hosting providers, and even the legal aspects. I see a change in upcoming times and a reaarangement of all aspects of this business. And more or less, I predict that sites without something distinctive will die because of oversaturation. That will be the paybak time for content providers, designers and everybody who has an original idea instead of everybody doing the same things everybody else does

I'm mostly doing tgp stuff . content is re-useable . I have probably liscence over 100 000 pics and 50-75 hours of movies over the years (lots of content provider were giving me massive ammount of liscence for banner spots on my board) .

I haven't used half of it . Why would I buy some ?

Every little tgp guy can ask a sponsor for content and he will get some right away . No need to buy it anymore for them either.

It's already comming . Reality paysites are the way to go . Content that is original and exclusive. Everything that can be copied can be found on kazaa . Even the reality site shit can be found really quick after it get released.

How many bought it ? less than 50 %

How many have the liscence ? Probably 90 % . Every sponsor gives TONS of content to use nowdays ...

We had a photo studio in LA for several years in the Valley. It was great being able to shoot your own content. It really does cost a lot in terms of time and getting the girls consistently, having people in the studio to handle things. Its not just about grabbing a camera and shooting pics when you're doing it on the pro level for magazine and other print useage.

We used to have hair stylists, makeup artists, lighting assistants, the works.

Today there are a lot of content producers out there. That's a big part of the problem. Many sites can cut deals where they don't have to license and pay for content also.

hmm just a guess but maybe it also has to do with less paysite owners out there than there used to be, with all the visa crap going on...

Paysite business model of course you want the best quality exclusive content, etc, but just to buy content for avs's, free sites and galleries most people don't want to invest much.

Especially if you are already using promo content from a paysite/program to send them traffic.

Also, this might sound lazy, but it can be time consuming to pick out content set by set when you want to buy in quantity, especially if you are looking for one particular niche. Bulk deals can save a lot of time if the deal is worth picking up.

Lack of paypal is a real pain in the ass too.

on the contrary, i dont think reality content is the way to go at all. I think people have forgotten that jerking off is serious business and people just want alot of good content to jerk too..and thats that.
The reality thing only works if either the scenario is almost believeble..like bangbus...)which is 1 out of 1000 sites that can claim it is almost believable)
or if the actual sex scenes are really good...

What seems to have happened, is when Bush called war,
sales everywhere dropped off considerably for a while,
as people we busy watching their TV rather than being
on the internet surfing or working.

It was a couple months after the war was declared that
my email box started getting loads of blowout offers.

Seemed it was done at that time to help boost revenue,
which was likely low for a couple months. Many producers
offered these blowouts, and webmasters stocked up for
cheap. Now, they have more content and updates than they
need, and yet I bet many still keep buying these blow out
offers since some are really killer offers. So now many have
way more content than they can even look through!

These blowout offers have not stopped ever since.

Agreed, nothing beats exclusive. But when webmasters can
get loads of decent stuff at blowout prices, it's easy & cheap.

I believe it is just the nature of the beast. Cycles.
This is the time many producers will drop out, and yet
still some new ones will crop up with new ideas and concepts
on how to make it profitable. And out will crop a new breed
of producers. Some of the old school producers will adapt
and remain successful, while many drop out completely.
And a profitable content biz will emerge again.

Those are my thoughts & observations anyhow.

I remember this thread..it was a good discussion.

To many producers not enough buyers. Never been a better time to jump into the paysite business.

I added it to the pile of threads of mine that have disappeared.

I did a search for the thread and cant find it.

I know for a fact the words "loop hole content galleries hosted" should bring it up, but it doesnt. Damn GFY search function eats ass.

yes finally someone speaks the truth,surfers don't care if the content is exclusive or not, they just want some good content to jerk off with

The content biz has changed dramatically several times since I started in 98.

Used to be, shoot any cutie, any scene, anywhere, pics only was fine and you have tons of sales

Three years ago we noticed sales dropping and video entering the picture more and more.

For about a year pics along with video kicked ass if the video had a little acting and story line to it. Then sales started dropping again.

We saw reality jump into the game and jumped in quick. Much harder to shoot, edit, etc. Imagine doing 45 minute 'show' once a week, then do that for a few customers...whew

Now we just shoot custom for niche players like TushyCash and 5 others that have loyal customers that keep coming back because they like the quality of the story line, action and videos.

We also shoot 'reality' for numerous customers and the same thing is true...people that join, become members...stay because they want to see the next episode...so it better be damn good.!!

Our next level is partner deals with major programs...some are reality based and some are very niche oriented...we share the costs and the profits. We've also cut dvd distribution deals for our hardcore products to the retail market.

For producers to compete and keep making $$$, they need to watch market trends, know the players and make sure they know you, and produce content that pushes the limit on quality...This means story line, talent, editing, sets, locations, and much more.

Our sales every year keep going up because we work every avenue that is the current trend, and always look to the next level of the industry.

I think it's the nature of every business to go through the golden age where everything is easy money... then lots of people come in and it gets saturated from any angle you can think of, then finally out of there comes the stronger companies and everything is more structured (AND harder to get in)


I believe we are slowly going towards the last stage, where things narrow down and only the stronger survive... so everyone is trying to make the quickbuck over quality....

it'll come back I think

A major source of blame is the availability of cheap digital equipment. This allows for anyone with a few hundred bucks and some females to become providers.

Next was the idea of content brokers. This was and prolly still is just another way to rip off providers. Of course not all are bad just the majority.

Relaxed licensing also is a major role. Since the vast majority of providers seem to use the same basic license which is very outdated to say the least. It has left them wide open for getting fucked in the ass. From unlimited domain usage which not only makes tracking legit licenses a bitch, it also cuts sales from large affiliates. To how the images or video can be used. This covers hosted galleries, build your own front end type paysites and avs sites, and sponsors giving away content. Most providers licenses are just bad business.

Influx in European providers. They have considerably lower production costs and there are easier ways to pay them. Only problem they have is trust and of course videos that often are not in English.

Theft plain and simple. Providers are ripped off every day of the week all year round. Why license when nobody gives a shit if you steal it.

Catering to the TGP submitter. Mostly covered above in the license paragraph. Submitters serve a purpose to paysites not to providers. Now most just bypass providers all together. They saturate the content and make it basicly valueless. They should be paying a premium for this ability or the paysites should be paying a premium so they can give it to them.

Providers also do not seem to recognise their own value either. They short themselves and sell way to damn cheap.

exactly correct.

i have been saying the same thing for a while now.

80% of content producers produce cookie cutter content with no imagination.

and surfers are bored with it.

and because surfers are bored with it they do not respond to it by buying memberships to see it.

and when that happens content providers cannot sell their content.

these days modern digital equipment is pretty good.

you could probably train a chimpanzee to hold one of these modern consumer digicams and make passable quality content, auto focus, auto exposure, etc. any fool can be a content "producer".

for my surfers to actually buy a membership i have to shoot the stuff myself. big hassle for me. but at least i'll get it right because i understand what MY surfers want.

the really good shooters sell their own stuff on their own websites.

they don't sell content.

and the mediocre shooters become content "producers".

there are a few exceptions, (wanton, etc.) but that's basically the way i see it.

What "reality" sites have is novelty value and therein lies the answer to a lot of the problems facing content producers. You could spend a week browsing new content and maybe one set in an hundred really makes you sit up and take notice.

Okay this is just an aspect of the increase in competition, but the point is that the main reactions have been to reduce prices or quit. Yet there must be photographers with the skills to try out different lighting or camera angles, the imagination to do something different with sets, hair, makeup. I don't know, I'm not a photographer. But I know that if you are in a competitive field and you don't want to compete on price, you have to be better (not in pro terms, but in a way that means something to the customer) and/or different.

again, exactly correct.

today i was looking at the fashion ads in vanity fair.

mostly shot with digital these days, probably with equipment that most pro photographers use.

and stylistically the images were all over the map.

weird colors, weird lighting, and all fucking beautiful.

oh, if only porn was shot this way.

or, to say it differently, if only artists shot porn.

a few do, but not many.

Also starts with schmucks like SOBE girl selling sets for $1 a piece. Its guys tlike that that ruin biz. I dont lower my proices unless its bulk deals. My biz is doing great. I produce anywhere from 20 - 40 sets a month. And I am traveling all over the world shooting which shows Im having good cash flow.

sobe's stuff sells at giveaway pricing because IT DOES NOT CONVERT. maybe it did at one time, just not now.

when you see a blowout sale, or low pricing from a content producer that's the only thing it means.

content does not fill up a warehouse, it's not like a car lot, or a guy that must sell some refrigerators because he needs the space.

low pricing means only one thing.

the shit does not convert very well.

80% of the guys shooting content for the net could not shoot for magazines. Most of them want slides and they would not know where to start shooting/lighting for slides. Then the actual content requirement would be way beyond them. Let's face it, what the net accepts as content editors mostly would laugh at.

But not all content providers are suffering. Our sales continue to go one way and that's up, on both sites.

The clients buying from www.paulmarkham.com where we have the newer and better stuff. Are coming back week after week, as soon as we send a newsletter we get sales. On www.bargainbasementcontent.com, our blowout content site we also get regular sales but smaller amounts and from more people.

IMHO what has happened is the surfer has found the sites who can spot/produce the good stuff and largely ignoring the sites buying from Content Providers for the wrong reasons. The surfer does not care if you bought it from a cool guy for $5, he's interested in whether he can jerk off to it. Sites with poor quality porn are left to buy blow outs and the spiral of decline is set.

In a year or so the content producing business will turn around and paysites will have to pay more for better content and those who produce it will be in the driving seat.

Nice thread.

I know, Ill be here, I am assuming after you what 20+ years in porn, youll be here then too. ;)

I cant wait to see how it all pans out.

I can remember you bashing cheap content, then you came up with the method of moving sets to the bargain basement and what not, things change, and as KRL would say... "one thing is for certain about this industry, and thats change, be prepared for it."

I used to write a motoring section for a style magazine in Israel: 8-12 pages a month and the rule was that each piece had to start on a two-page full-color spread.

The house photographer was a guy called Micha Kirshner: among others, he did work for Gideon Oberson and Gotex. We were on a shoot one day and I was saying to him how it was easy enough doing cars for this format, but how could we illustrate - for example - an article about tires?

I don't remember all he did. I recall him hanging a tire off a stand, backlighting it, tracking the camera past the tire with a long exposure. Anyway the result was this amazing picture reminiscent of a catherine-wheel firework.

I figure if you can work wonders with a tire, there's no limit to what you can do with more photogenic material

I wanted to comment on this too.

This is a accurate, and I can hear the ones who fit into this category now saying "who needs to be able to do print, this is just for the net." I am no photographer, but I know when I see something I like, and there is a MAJOR difference between some idiot who think he is a pimp and has a 5k camera, some lights and a chick getting naked that he would rather fuck than take good photos or video of and the guy who knows how to make the shoot flow, the girl smile, etc.. girls usually dont like pervs during shoots.

I have seen them too may times, more worried about wrapping up the shoot and trying to get a blowjob,...and have been around too many good photographers to not compliment on the difference between the two.

Not sure where I wanted to go with this, but wanted to comment

some jacko with a camera in a hotel, would SURELY be laughed at by some of the more experienced print work photographers etc...

haha, so true. but these are the majority of content "producers" for the web.

no wonder the surfers don't respond to it.

the basic problem is that there is a paucity of real artist types that will shoot hardcore.

mostly because of the "stigma" of shooting hardcore.

they will shoot "softcore" but rarely hardcore.

so it less the field of hardcore shooters to the aesthetically challenged...

guys that don't have a critical eye, guys that can't tell a great image from a mediocre image.

so they just shoot for an hour, and create 1500 images in that hour.

and only 3 images are keepers.

I said that at the beginning when they started all the blow outs. But the truth is I was wrong, it does sell.

Whether it's to guys who make enough money to come back and buy again is another question.

I bloody well hope not, I just want to get out and retire, got the money just need to get things organised so Eva can take over.

heh.

Im 27, You were shooting porn when I was a kid.

You NEED to retire and let the next gen like me take over!!!

Yes, with enough creativity and good marketing even shitty content can make lots of money.

Its just a product. If you know how to market it to the right people the right way it will sell. Just like anything else.

The look of the models make or break the content. That's the key.

You guys really make me laugh. I love it when some dick head comes here and starts to rip on SoBeGirl...

Always crying SoBeGirl killed the business, SoBeGirl content is stolen,, SoBeGirl content does not convert blah blah blah....

It is the same old story where my competition or friends of my competition want to take me down becuase they do not like competing with me. SoBeGirl has more, better content, delivers it faster, updtates more than anyone. It is fucking killing you guys that I am still here, still making money, still shooting exclusives and my resale biz is still doing great even in this poor environment.

SoBeGirl conent does not convert?? Oh really, is that right??

I keep updating my site, I keep selling more, I keep adding webmasters who opt in to my email list and some people are so stupid to say that SoBeGirl content does not convert. What a joke.

The fact is that this amazing collection of SoBeGirl content converts as good or better than anything. This has been the case for over 4 years. And when I do a blow out it is the best deal you will ever see.

If SoBeGirl content does not convert for you they you do not know what youa re doing. And converting surfers is not easy and I am learning a lot. I have my pay site at http://www.crazycontent.com and it is all SoBeGirl contetn and I do not need anything else. Trust me that site is converting just fine and I could not be happier.

I am really sort of honored that people actually think I took the market down. One company, one man ME, affected theentire contetn market so bad. What power I must have right :-) LOL

I know that the facts are different. I have a pay site. I build these fucking galleries all the time, I have stats that show me what is going on. If you want to understand why the content biz is the way it is just ask a pay site owner.

Ask how hard it is to get a conversion. See how surfers know how to use trials. See how difficult it is to get them to click through from a gallery to your site and you have to pay for all that bandwidth that the TGP owner uses for free. Ask these guys and you will know why we are in the shit we are today.

But I have diversified a long time ago becuase I saw it coming. I have a plug in priduct at http://www.sobecams.com with over 100 active clients that some have been with me for years. I have the http://www.crazycontent.com pay site now which is teaching me a lot about what does and what does not convert. And most importantly I have been investing in real estate for the last 2 years as I saw this big mess coming and knew I needed some stability.

The difference between me SoBeGirl and these other content provider ass holes is that I see this biz from all the angles. I understand what the content provider goes through, the pay site owner, the TGP guy, graphic designers etc... My stuff is made and delivered to you my customer in such a way that it makes your job eaiser so you can make your money faster.

So when someone says bad things about SoBeGirl think about the facts and don't listen to some zit faced geek who makes less than minimum wage working out of his bed room at his mommies house. Fact is the SoBeGirl collection has been a mainstay for so many website operators for years. As I continue to add content every week it just gets better and better.

Should I decide to sell bulk sets for dirt cheap prices again I will do it again and I dont give a shit about how much my competition crys.

Maybe I will do it again soon, who knows. I am happy with my 20 plus dollars a set I am asking for now and webmasters find it fair as well.

I think a lot of webmasters were hurt with the demise of so many processors last year. Our sales did go down for us but we simply started a pile of pay sites and we make far more with our content this way than selling it at reduced prices.

We shoot more content now than ever before to keep up the demand for our pay site members and this content is not added to the content store. We do however supply a few selected pay sites owners with this content. There is always a way to make money.

Chicken or egg -- does the photographer make the model or the model make the photographer?

Answer: If the market is oversaturated with low-cost crap, it doesn't matter. And that's sad.
<br>

As with all industries things change and only the strongest and most adaptable survive.

Thats why you shoot your own...!!

But does it convert?

Problem is a lot of people here understand computers, Internet, design and programming. But nothing about porn and the porno consumer and that is what they are selling. So when the regular porn surfer hits onto a site, that site competes with every other porn site he's signed up to. If it does not come up to scratch he moves on and the owner does not have the cash to buy more. How simple is that?

Consider how much a content site is selling if they are no longer adding new content. It costs between $40 to $100 to shoot a new solo girl set/video, without costing in the normal costs to run a business on a day to day basis, equipment, premises, hosting, etc. Thats 1 to 3 sales at $35 to reach the break even point, these guys not adding content are trimming down and just relying on their stock to sell to new customers for income. Gives you an idea on how many regular clients they have who need their content to provide to their members.

The photographer makes the model 9 times out of 10. Few girls are good in front of a boring, old, pervy guy.

good thread!