Visa 1% Limit - No word from CCbill, Ibill or Jettis?

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  • Hooper
    Confirmed User
    • Jul 2001
    • 2210
    #51
    We all know that cross-sells account for a good # of chargebacks in the overall scheme of things.
    You are absolutely wrong. Cross sells that are disclosed properly have virtually no impact on chargeback ratios.

    Cmon mitch. You're supposed to be a CC guru here, you should know what *really* causes the chargebacks.

    I can count on two fingers what any program needs to do in order to drop below the .5% mark
    <a href="http://www.adultplatinum.com/"><img src="http://www.adult.com/wmbanners/10dcash-468x60.gif"></a>

      Comment

      • NETbilling
        Confirmed User
        • Jan 2002
        • 8599
        #52
        Originally posted by thetrog


        Thanks Mitch.

        I'm getting a little tired of hearing that cross sells don't cause chargeback problems.

        Just like the porn industry's unethical billing tactics don't have anything to do with the ongoing card association problems.

        Are you people delusional? Are you going to chant these non-sensical mantras and conspiracy theories until Visa and Mastercard put you out of business?

        The unfortunate answer is probably, Yes.
        Hi,

        It may be different with other companies but we surely see an increase in chargebacks from the merchants that do cross-sells. However, we do also offer multi-site memberships and see lower chargebacks from those and our check processing average is less than 20% returns overall.

        Mitch


        Mitch Farber
        CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
        Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
        Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

          Comment

          • Paul Markham
            Too old to care
            • Jun 2001
            • 52942
            #53
            Originally posted by RocHard
            Wait unti one of the CC processing companies has problems with this - and files a lawsuit. All they have to say in court is "we want to know what your charge back ratio is for other types of businesses, and when it's discovered that other indsutries have worse problems........ It will make the court wonder why it's going after the adult market and not others.
            Very good point. I read the biggest charge back ratio is auctions, so what will they say when Ebay own Paypal?

            But it is just the adult Internet that is on the 1%



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              Comment

              • NETbilling
                Confirmed User
                • Jan 2002
                • 8599
                #54
                Originally posted by Hooper


                You are absolutely wrong. Cross sells that are disclosed properly have virtually no impact on chargeback ratios.

                Cmon mitch. You're supposed to be a CC guru here, you should know what *really* causes the chargebacks.

                I can count on two fingers what any program needs to do in order to drop below the .5% mark
                Hooper,

                Cross-sells are usually done in a small text box that the surfer does not often pay attention to. That is the main reason why cross-sells increase chargebacks.

                There a re many, many reasons for chargebacks. The 4 biggest are (not necessarily in order):

                (1) Friendly fraud (customer denies charges to save his $$$ or his marriage)

                (2) Broken promises in the member's area.

                (3) Stolen credit cards

                (4) Lousy customer service by the site owner or processor.

                Mitch


                Mitch Farber
                CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
                Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
                Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

                  Comment

                  • vapewiz
                    Confirmed User
                    • Nov 2002
                    • 1530
                    #55
                    Originally posted by netbilling


                    Hi,

                    It may be different with other companies but we surely see an increase in chargebacks from the merchants that do cross-sells. However, we do also offer multi-site memberships and see lower chargebacks from those and our check processing average is less than 20% returns overall.

                    Mitch
                    Sorry but WTF does check processing have to do with this thread, cross-sells, muti-site sales, chargebacks, and visas CB ratio?

                    How come your answers are always so blurred and your one of the guy that is/with the cc processors that should have all the answers.

                      Comment

                      • Paul Markham
                        Too old to care
                        • Jun 2001
                        • 52942
                        #56
                        Originally posted by Kimmykim


                        The whole thing will suck for some people and be great for others, just the way it always is
                        Thanks for clearing it up.

                        The last comment was very interesting.

                        Will it mean one less surfer? NO

                        Will it mean less rip off and fraudulent sites? YES

                        So what will this all mean in the long run?

                        Better paysites, less people showing something in a tour they do not deleiver. Less reliance on Traffic and design more on quality of service and product.

                        More sites with a clearly visable and easy to use cancel button.

                        If you are getting more than 1% charge back, ask yourself why and fix it. Or find a new career. Sorry to be tough but Visa make a fortune out of giving the customer what he wants, so do a lot of webmasters.



                        Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                        PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                          Comment

                          • quiet
                            we'll miss you our friend. RIP
                            • Sep 2001
                            • 25115
                            #57
                            the only thing that pisses me off directly about the 1% thing, is that i can no longer ever scale down my sites and eventually shut them down (in the traditional sense). my cb is less than 0.5%, but i can never scale down without pushing the number past 1%.
                            we'll miss you our friend. RIP

                              Comment

                              • Pornkings
                                Confirmed User
                                • Oct 2002
                                • 5334
                                #58
                                Originally posted by quiet
                                the only thing that pisses me off directly about the 1% thing, is that i can no longer ever scale down my sites and eventually shut them down (in the traditional sense). my cb is less than 0.5%, but i can never scale down without pushing the number past 1%.
                                let us run it for you in the Pornkings program.

                                keep whats reacurring and we keep the new sales

                                Or do the deal with another program that can maintain it and keep the chargebacks down
                                Pornkings.com

                                  Comment

                                  • AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
                                    best designer on GFY
                                    • Mar 2003
                                    • 30307
                                    #59
                                    "How come your answers are always so blurred and your one of the guy that is/with the cc processors that should have all the answers."

                                    Cuz if he came in here like he knows his shit (Which he does) someone like you would still give em a hard time no matter what.

                                    If ya want answer's Mitch's offices are open regularly during the day and he always been one of the guys to give some wisdom to any who ask.

                                      Comment

                                      • NETbilling
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Jan 2002
                                        • 8599
                                        #60
                                        Originally posted by cutetwink


                                        Sorry but WTF does check processing have to do with this thread, cross-sells, muti-site sales, chargebacks, and visas CB ratio?

                                        How come your answers are always so blurred and your one of the guy that is/with the cc processors that should have all the answers.
                                        I was just mentioning alternative and alternative payment mehod. You can do cross-sells and multi site sells with checks also.

                                        Take deep breath and relax. What was blurred about my explanation?

                                        Mitch

                                        p.s. Thanks for the backup Alien :-)


                                        Mitch Farber
                                        CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
                                        Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
                                        Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

                                          Comment

                                          • solonline
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Jan 2003
                                            • 718
                                            #61
                                            1 percent shouldnt be a problem. We have kept below this level on all sites for over 2 years. As pointed out by others, if your content is honest, and you respond to customer Qs in quick time,
                                            keep your price points acceptable then. then combine this with a processor who employs decent scrubbing and it should be cool beenz.

                                            Most of the chargebacks we have had, came when we ran low priced trials. Thats why for the most part we banged trials on the head.
                                            Knock em dead with kick ass content and the dollars will flow in the right direction.

                                              Comment

                                              • Paul Markham
                                                Too old to care
                                                • Jun 2001
                                                • 52942
                                                #62
                                                Originally posted by quiet
                                                the only thing that pisses me off directly about the 1% thing, is that i can no longer ever scale down my sites and eventually shut them down (in the traditional sense). my cb is less than 0.5%, but i can never scale down without pushing the number past 1%.
                                                You got a site making so much money, why close it down just sell it.

                                                Why "Scale it down?" Or one day stop taking money, close down all your CC processors. Run the site for another four weeks and walk away. Can't see the problem.



                                                Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Paul Markham
                                                    Too old to care
                                                    • Jun 2001
                                                    • 52942
                                                    #63
                                                    Originally posted by solonline
                                                    1 percent shouldnt be a problem. We have kept below this level on all sites for over 2 years. As pointed out by others, if your content is honest, and you respond to customer Qs in quick time,
                                                    keep your price points acceptable then. then combine this with a processor who employs decent scrubbing and it should be cool beenz.

                                                    Most of the chargebacks we have had, came when we ran low priced trials. Thats why for the most part we banged trials on the head.
                                                    Knock em dead with kick ass content and the dollars will flow in the right direction.
                                                    Well that's pretty revolutionary. Give the guy what he wants, don't rip him off and charge backs won't be a problem.



                                                    Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                    PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                      Comment

                                                      • scooby doo as scooby does
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Nov 2002
                                                        • 314
                                                        #64
                                                        Originally posted by charly
                                                        Well that's pretty revolutionary. Give the guy what he wants, don't rip him off and charge backs won't be a problem.

                                                        I am a very simple man I see VISA doing this and I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and the works. I don't have the intelligence obviously. I just see a company who knows the importance and gross income from online sales is only going to grow and grow. And that they need customers to be confident in using their cards on the Internet in order to get their share of this. Hence they are weeding out the bad practises that reduce customer confidence in using their cards online.

                                                        From my point of view, I want customers to be confident in using their cards as well. I want them to have their card in their hand every time they log on. Notwithstanding the geniune fraud, every chargeback, every unsatisfied customer hurts that utopia.

                                                        That's why I like this new regulation. I want free***pass to go out of business with it's pre-checked cross-sales and well hidden trials. I want epoch and other processors who enable these sites to continue duping the customer to go out of business, or modify there business practises. Quicker rather than sooner.

                                                        I want customers to be confidant in their ability to use their cards to get exactly what they want. My living depends upon it. Anyone in for the long haul wants this. Fuck the rest. Bravo VISA.
                                                        In 1904, Charles Newman-Berry connected two abacus's together using specially enhanced GrapeVine thus inventing the first Internet connection.

                                                        NEWMAN-BERRY CASH
                                                        Paying webmaster since 1904

                                                          Comment

                                                          • thetrog
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Jun 2003
                                                            • 157
                                                            #65
                                                            Originally posted by Hooper


                                                            You are absolutely wrong. Cross sells that are disclosed properly have virtually no impact on chargeback ratios.
                                                            Let's be clear about what we're talking about here. A lot of it depends upon HOW the cross sell is done.

                                                            If it's a pre-checked cross sell with a big "FREE" headline in bright red letters with only a 30 minute trial disclosure in tiny print underneath, then I'd say you're wrong.

                                                            But if the box is NOT pre-checked, there's no misleading "FREE" headline, and the terms are disclosed in easy to read print right up front, then I would agree with you.

                                                            The problem is the first example is a lot more common than the second.
                                                            Last edited by thetrog; 07-09-2003, 04:48 AM.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Snake Doctor
                                                                I'm Lenny2 Bitch
                                                                • Mar 2001
                                                                • 13449
                                                                #66
                                                                Originally posted by thetrog


                                                                Let's be clear about what we're talking about here. A lot of it depends upon HOW the cross sell is done.

                                                                If it's a pre-checked cross sell with a big "FREE" headline in bright red letters with only a 30 minute trial disclosure in tiny print underneath, then I'd say you're wrong.

                                                                But if the box is NOT pre-checked, there's no misleading "FREE" headline, and the terms are disclosed in easy to read print right up front, then I would agree with you.

                                                                The problem is the first example is a lot more common than the second.
                                                                Do you own paysites that are doing hundreds of cross sales per day?
                                                                Because if you don't then you're just guessing about what you THINK happens with cross sales.

                                                                Open a per sign up program and grow it to over 1000 joins a day and THEN you can tell everyone else how they should be running their business.
                                                                sig too big

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • solonline
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Jan 2003
                                                                    • 718
                                                                    #67
                                                                    The VISA noose is undoubtly going to get tighter n tighter, long term the prospects dont look so bright, what needs to happen are further ways of payment for filth purchases.
                                                                    One day VISA may well say Screw Adult, imagine if that came about now....id be back making milkshakes. Its a matter of market demand. We recently have been testing SMS billing on one of our sites. Its basic, but works. Revenues are small, and the country list is only the UK Belgium and holland at this time.
                                                                    Payments take upwards of 3 months to filter down,
                                                                    and the whole system is still a baby...but it works, and if it can turn over a few hundred bucks a month then why not 1000s.

                                                                    This kind of billing in my humble view is one way in which this market can move forward. A universal, easy to use, non VISA format of letting joe customer get his nuts of online.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • crescentx
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Jun 2003
                                                                        • 317
                                                                        #68
                                                                        Anyone that believes cross-sells don't contribute to CB is wrong. They're treading a thin line between fraud - honestly do you think these idiotic AOL users who cannot figure out how to cancel when we make it available on the main member's page, the join page, and an autoresponder in ten languages will understand they've just been duped into a membership they did not want?

                                                                        I have no problem with VISA implementing these rules but they need to improve their ability to respond to stolen cards. A database made its way into some Brooklyn scammers earlier this year, and I saw one customer's statement where they were hit with 20K of charges from multiple IPSPs and websites, including Hustler, in a two day period. We had all the info on these guys, even got a copy of a check showing how they cashed their checks, and were rebuffed. That is idiotic - we found the fraud, stopped it, and tried to report it, and were given no help.

                                                                        -doug
                                                                        XYCash International Gay Affiliate Program

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • thetrog
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Jun 2003
                                                                            • 157
                                                                            #69
                                                                            I'm not sure what your problem is Lenny2.

                                                                            Mitch says cross sells cause chargeback problems. (Presumably he would know.)

                                                                            Others disagree.

                                                                            I was pointing out that a lot of it can depend upon how the cross sell is done.

                                                                            And voicing an opinion in that regard.
                                                                            Last edited by thetrog; 07-09-2003, 05:34 AM.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • jimmyf
                                                                                OU812
                                                                                • Feb 2001
                                                                                • 12651
                                                                                #70
                                                                                Originally posted by scooby doo as scooby does



                                                                                I am a very simple man I see VISA doing this and I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and the works. I don't have the intelligence obviously. I just see a company who knows the importance and gross income from online sales is only going to grow and grow. And that they need customers to be confident in using their cards on the Internet in order to get their share of this. Hence they are weeding out the bad practises that reduce customer confidence in using their cards online.

                                                                                From my point of view, I want customers to be confident in using their cards as well. I want them to have their card in their hand every time they log on. Notwithstanding the geniune fraud, every chargeback, every unsatisfied customer hurts that utopia.

                                                                                That's why I like this new regulation. I want free***pass to go out of business with it's pre-checked cross-sales and well hidden trials. I want epoch and other processors who enable these sites to continue duping the customer to go out of business, or modify there business practises. Quicker rather than sooner.

                                                                                I want customers to be confidant in their ability to use their cards to get exactly what they want. My living depends upon it. Anyone in for the long haul wants this. Fuck the rest. Bravo VISA.
                                                                                Epic CashEpic Cash works for me
                                                                                Solar Cash Paysite Plugin
                                                                                Gallery of the day freesites,POTD,Gallery generator with free hosting

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • iBill Communications
                                                                                    Registered User
                                                                                    • May 2003
                                                                                    • 24
                                                                                    #71
                                                                                    Regarding the new VISA regulations, it is evident that the relevant chargeback ratio information has been released via this board and other sources and it is factual. However, the official VISA regulations have yet to be released. iBill will communicate to its clients the specific VISA regulations once they have been published. Until that time, we feel the follow-up questions cannot be appropriately answered.

                                                                                    iBill

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • jimmyf
                                                                                        OU812
                                                                                        • Feb 2001
                                                                                        • 12651
                                                                                        #72
                                                                                        Originally posted by thetrog
                                                                                        I'm not sure what your problem is Lenny2.

                                                                                        Mitch says cross sells cause chargeback problems. (Presumably he would know.)

                                                                                        Others disagree.

                                                                                        I was pointing out that a lot of it can depend upon how the cross sell is done.

                                                                                        And voicing an opinion in that regard.
                                                                                        it computes with me, cross sells cause charebacks. I've been dealing with people and computers before there was a Internet. I would say way over 80% don't know shit about them nor do they read what they are joining. All they know is they joined candy.com's site not 10 of her friends sites also. If you cross sell ( I don't care if you do 50,000 per day) better make dam sure YOU do not *deceive* your CUSTOMER. And you better have some good support for YOUR customers 24/7 call center, email or online. Shit I still get emails join out webamsters program, I answer the email and it bounces, asswipes. I get emails from programs I joined 2 years ago, and thinking I'll promote them again, I answer the emails they bounce. **Now is this any way to do business**. Just think what they might do to the CUSTOMER's you would be sending them.

                                                                                        Bottom line people are stupid (when it comes to computes at least 80%) or they are scared to death of'm. When dealing with them you have to train people to take this into account. I had customers that I never could teach'm what cd\ was had to tell'm every time to type it in, and this went on for years.
                                                                                        Epic CashEpic Cash works for me
                                                                                        Solar Cash Paysite Plugin
                                                                                        Gallery of the day freesites,POTD,Gallery generator with free hosting

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • Carrie
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Apr 2002
                                                                                            • 3162
                                                                                            #73
                                                                                            Originally posted by Lensman
                                                                                            The public info I have heard is from Paycom (Epoch), I applaud them at their efforts to make the industry adapt to changes. But what's up with CCBill, IBill and the rest? Why are they so silent on this topic, or have I missed some news?
                                                                                            Lens,
                                                                                            Either they're going to wait until August 1st and do a repeat of last year's two-month-rush Visa changes notice, or they're trying to figure out first what new changes *they* are going to enforce (like no pre-checked cross-sells) before putting out the notice.

                                                                                            It seems that Epoch learned the lesson from last year that webmasters get *pissed* when you withhold information from them, and have changed their ways and decided to release the news as they get it. Good for them.

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Carrie
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Apr 2002
                                                                                                • 3162
                                                                                                #74
                                                                                                Originally posted by iBill Communications
                                                                                                Regarding the new VISA regulations, it is evident that the relevant chargeback ratio information has been released via this board and other sources and it is factual. However, the official VISA regulations have yet to be released. iBill will communicate to its clients the specific VISA regulations once they have been published. Until that time, we feel the follow-up questions cannot be appropriately answered.

                                                                                                iBill
                                                                                                Oh that's such bullshit.
                                                                                                "Someone else already posted it on GFY so we don't need to inform you"??
                                                                                                You could at least give your clients a heads-up on what's coming and make SURE that they know - not everyone reads the boards and webmaster resources *shock gasp*.
                                                                                                I see that your company learned nothing from the debacle last year.

                                                                                                Your clients are YOUR clients - not GFY's clients, or Greenguy & Jim's clients, or Net*Pond's clients... it is YOUR duty to inform them, not the webmaster resources' duty to inform them.

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • Snake Doctor
                                                                                                    I'm Lenny2 Bitch
                                                                                                    • Mar 2001
                                                                                                    • 13449
                                                                                                    #75
                                                                                                    Originally posted by thetrog
                                                                                                    I'm not sure what your problem is Lenny2.

                                                                                                    Mitch says cross sells cause chargeback problems. (Presumably he would know.)

                                                                                                    Others disagree.

                                                                                                    I was pointing out that a lot of it can depend upon how the cross sell is done.

                                                                                                    And voicing an opinion in that regard.
                                                                                                    Again all your conclusions are based on presumption. If you're not doing 100's of cross sales a day or you don't have access to the processor's overall stats then you really don't know what you're talking about.

                                                                                                    Mitch is trolling for new customers as always, so you have to take what he says with a grain of salt. (No offense Mitch)
                                                                                                    sig too big

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • thetrog
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Jun 2003
                                                                                                        • 157
                                                                                                        #76
                                                                                                        Originally posted by Lenny2


                                                                                                        Mitch is trolling for new customers as always, so you have to take what he says with a grain of salt. (No offense Mitch)
                                                                                                        I don't see how Mitch gets more customers by stating that cross sells create more chargebacks. In fact, it might even hurt him a little bit, since it seems to be an unpopular opinion.

                                                                                                        I would take his opinion pretty seriously because he sees chargeback ratio data from a number of webmasters and websites, a much larger sample than most of us probably have access to.

                                                                                                        Mitch is a processor and, presumably, his opinion is based upon the stats you are referring to.
                                                                                                        Last edited by thetrog; 07-09-2003, 07:45 AM.

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • Kimmykim
                                                                                                            bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                                            • Jun 2001
                                                                                                            • 16015
                                                                                                            #77
                                                                                                            Originally posted by Hooper


                                                                                                            You are absolutely wrong. Cross sells that are disclosed properly have virtually no impact on chargeback ratios.

                                                                                                            Cmon mitch. You're supposed to be a CC guru here, you should know what *really* causes the chargebacks.

                                                                                                            I can count on two fingers what any program needs to do in order to drop below the .5% mark
                                                                                                            You need two fingers?

                                                                                                            I can sum it up in one word.

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • Kimmykim
                                                                                                                bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                                                • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                • 16015
                                                                                                                #78
                                                                                                                Originally posted by iBill Communications
                                                                                                                Regarding the new VISA regulations, it is evident that the relevant chargeback ratio information has been released via this board and other sources and it is factual. However, the official VISA regulations have yet to be released. iBill will communicate to its clients the specific VISA regulations once they have been published. Until that time, we feel the follow-up questions cannot be appropriately answered.

                                                                                                                iBill
                                                                                                                Now Tom, you know you have a copy of the pub. ;)

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • 12clicks
                                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                    • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                    • 19814
                                                                                                                    #79
                                                                                                                    don't any of you pricks come sniffing around mainstream looking for money.
                                                                                                                    I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • John3
                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                        • May 2003
                                                                                                                        • 1214
                                                                                                                        #80
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by iBill Communications
                                                                                                                        Regarding the new VISA regulations, it is evident that the relevant chargeback ratio information has been released via this board and other sources and it is factual. However, the official VISA regulations have yet to be released. iBill will communicate to its clients the specific VISA regulations once they have been published. Until that time, we feel the follow-up questions cannot be appropriately answered.

                                                                                                                        iBill
                                                                                                                        calling you guys pathetic doesn't even do you justice.

                                                                                                                        Hook 'em.

                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • NETbilling
                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                            • Jan 2002
                                                                                                                            • 8599
                                                                                                                            #81
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Lenny2


                                                                                                                            Again all your conclusions are based on presumption. If you're not doing 100's of cross sales a day or you don't have access to the processor's overall stats then you really don't know what you're talking about.

                                                                                                                            Mitch is trolling for new customers as always, so you have to take what he says with a grain of salt. (No offense Mitch)
                                                                                                                            I am trying to help here. New business is always nice and why most of the poepl on theses boards who are in business frequent here. I am not on here today spamming Netbilling at all. Just trying to help. We have several merchants who do cross-sells and I see the numbers first hand.

                                                                                                                            Many value my opinion and 5 years of successful processing experience in this industry. If you do not, that is ok.

                                                                                                                            Mitch


                                                                                                                            Mitch Farber
                                                                                                                            CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
                                                                                                                            Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
                                                                                                                            Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • NETbilling
                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                • Jan 2002
                                                                                                                                • 8599
                                                                                                                                #82
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by crescentx
                                                                                                                                Anyone that believes cross-sells don't contribute to CB is wrong. They're treading a thin line between fraud - honestly do you think these idiotic AOL users who cannot figure out how to cancel when we make it available on the main member's page, the join page, and an autoresponder in ten languages will understand they've just been duped into a membership they did not want?

                                                                                                                                I have no problem with VISA implementing these rules but they need to improve their ability to respond to stolen cards. A database made its way into some Brooklyn scammers earlier this year, and I saw one customer's statement where they were hit with 20K of charges from multiple IPSPs and websites, including Hustler, in a two day period. We had all the info on these guys, even got a copy of a check showing how they cashed their checks, and were rebuffed. That is idiotic - we found the fraud, stopped it, and tried to report it, and were given no help.

                                                                                                                                -doug
                                                                                                                                Doug,

                                                                                                                                I agree 100%. I am not down on cross-sells/upsells or cancellation upsells but it must be done correctly.

                                                                                                                                Mitch


                                                                                                                                Mitch Farber
                                                                                                                                CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
                                                                                                                                Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
                                                                                                                                Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

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                                                                                                                                  • TheJimmy
                                                                                                                                    ICQ- five seven 0 2 5 5 0
                                                                                                                                    • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                                    • 10747
                                                                                                                                    #83
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by RocHard
                                                                                                                                    Wait unti one of the CC processing companies has problems with this - and files a lawsuit. All they have to say in court is "we want to know what your charge back ratio is for other types of businesses, and when it's discovered that other indsutries have worse problems........ It will make the court wonder why it's going after the adult market and not others.

                                                                                                                                    I'm sure this has something to do with the Bush-c-r-o-f-t Puritanical regime we're under atm...

                                                                                                                                    who wants to bet that Visa, M/C & Amex are seriously in bed or trying to get some of that Bush panties?


                                                                                                                                    I mean honestly, WHO can't figure out that this adminstration is pro-big biz and ANTI-small biz?



                                                                                                                                    push that fear, crush some small biz...and that's how we'll drive this economy deeper....morons
                                                                                                                                    Investor with 5m - 15m USD to invest. Do you have a site or network of sites earning 50k - 200k a month income? Email your contact and preliminary data to: domain.cashventures (at) gmail.com....Please...no tire kickers...serious offers and inquiries only.

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                                                                                                                                      • Kimmykim
                                                                                                                                        bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                                                                        • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                        • 16015
                                                                                                                                        #84
                                                                                                                                        My guess is the fact that Visa's at a 14 year cb ratio low overall, coupled with a few scams in the business over the last year that did some real damage is the cause of this.

                                                                                                                                        No conspiracy, just simple business.

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                                                                                                                                          • HardProfits
                                                                                                                                            So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                            • Jan 2003
                                                                                                                                            • 346
                                                                                                                                            #85
                                                                                                                                            1. Kimmy and Mitch have seen the back end numbers on charge backs for many years, so I would trust them any day on matters such as c/back ratio's and sales and retention tactics. Plus I have never EVER seen or heard them bullshit anyone EVER. LIsten to them young Padawans.

                                                                                                                                            2. iBill Communications - I am a big fan of your company, but your communications on the boards suck - the VisaNet document has already been released to the acquirers, and as such been fully released. Me thinks that iBill and the other IPSP's are trying to work together to figure out what to do next (like you did when the Visa registrations happened last year). Not a bad thing, but for goodness sake, get your facts right b4 hitting the boards.

                                                                                                                                            3. people should be planning and not panicking. Call your billing provider NOW, and discuss your chargeback and refund ratio's. Ensure you employ best billing practices, and price your product at a price that reflects the level of content you offer, not on what your competitors are getting away with.

                                                                                                                                            4. Look at your customer support systems again - do it now, and ask yourself how you could improve it.

                                                                                                                                            5. Set up redundant systems, so in the event you lose one billing solution, you have rebills and sales potential already set up else where

                                                                                                                                            Anyways, I look forward to meeting y'all in Florida later this month
                                                                                                                                            Last edited by HardProfits; 07-09-2003, 11:44 PM.

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