Got Email From PayCom About Revised Chargeback Ratios

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  • Kimmykim
    bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
    • Jun 2001
    • 16015
    #151
    Woot woot! You know it Sly, I'm ready to roll!!!!!

    Probono, you just think I think you agree with me all the time -- that would be scary for both of us if you did! ;)

      Comment

      • Sly_RJ
        Live Hard - Die Hard
        • Feb 2002
        • 17042
        #152
        Originally posted by ozzymandius


        Gee I don't know either why people are trying to make you out as an Epoch consultant, even people that you say you have done business with for years. How they can know you for years and make that mistake is beyond me.

        And you can't say to me "Fuck you" just because this board is called GFY!

        You have hurt my feelings and now I am going to have to curl up in front of my TV with a box of Hostess Twinkies.
        Do you know the names of the companies that all your friends work for?

        Epoch and ePassporte are often talked about in the same sentence. It's easy to say one while meaning the other.

        If this is the best shit you can dig up on Kimmy, then damn... she must be one hell of a woman.
        PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price!
        sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

          Comment

          • NETbilling
            Confirmed User
            • Jan 2002
            • 8598
            #153
            Originally posted by Lensman
            How many non-adult online merchants have less than 1% chargeback ratio?
            Lens,

            We have hundreds of mainstream merchants who are well below 1%.
            Chargebacks are rampant in the adult arena but not mainstream which is one reasson we can setup a mainstram merchant with a merchant account and processing in about 24 hours on the average.

            Mitch


            Mitch Farber
            CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
            Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
            Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

              Comment

              • TDF
                Triple OG nigga on GFY
                • Mar 2002
                • 27296
                #154
                marketing in house?? oh the horror...what about the spammers???
                Sig heil

                  Comment

                  • Elephant_Gut
                    Registered User
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 70
                    #155
                    Oh would you people get a grip?! We are talking about chargebacks here. Who gives a rats ass whether kimmykim works for Paycom or not? Just take everything you read on an internet board with a grain of salt and rely mostly on your own research.

                    Of course people will have agendas one way or the other. Just learn to spot the bias and separate the crap from the gold on your own.

                    These threads are very informative if people didn't keep taking them off topic. Oops. I might just have done that. Sorry!
                    Elephant Gut
                    Yes I got a big Gut
                    Now Screw off!

                      Comment

                      • OneHungLo
                        So Fucking Banned
                        • May 2001
                        • 40902
                        #156
                        Originally posted by quiet


                        same. i've been under 1% since i first started a paysite in 97...
                        Same here. This is good news for the honest webmasters that dont run a con game with shaving/ double and triple billing

                          Comment

                          • TDF
                            Triple OG nigga on GFY
                            • Mar 2002
                            • 27296
                            #157
                            so what happens to cross billing as we know it?
                            Sig heil

                              Comment

                              • Sly_RJ
                                Live Hard - Die Hard
                                • Feb 2002
                                • 17042
                                #158
                                Originally posted by toodamnfli
                                so what happens to cross billing as we know it?
                                Better question:
                                What happens to pre-checked cross billing? What happens to un-checked cross billing?
                                PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price!
                                sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

                                  Comment

                                  • cash69
                                    So Fucking Banned
                                    • Oct 2002
                                    • 1052
                                    #159
                                    fuck you to visa

                                      Comment

                                      • tony299
                                        lurker
                                        • Aug 2002
                                        • 57021
                                        #160
                                        I think also when you have your own merchant account, you have much more info then you do when you are with a third party processor. With hard goods you can take more precautions than with memberships, like only deliver to the billing address. Also if they charge back to perform cyber shop lifting, you can bring them to small claims court because you have the info you need to do this. Where with third party processors you are flying blind. A example a guy charges back says it wasnt him, the name looks familiar the scum had been a member before. Did my third party processor go after this thief ? No but if I had my own merchant account for memberships you bet your sweet ass, I would collect my money.

                                          Comment

                                          • Ice
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Nov 2002
                                            • 26053
                                            #161
                                            Originally posted by Kimmykim


                                            Hush now John, you'll upset the Buffet brigade.

                                            As for those that get it, it's certainly not the NemoKings and Porn2whatevers.

                                            The ones that get it are the ones doing several thousand joins a day. Which is not a single one of these people.

                                            Unfortunately they are too busy cock crowing about their supposed superiority to understand how this business works and what kind of impact this rule has on the business.

                                            Interestingly enough, all of the 1k a day plus people I've talked to today understand the situation.

                                            They also understand economies of scale, something that can't be said for the majority of the posters in this thread.

                                            To say that something should be one way is great. To actually do it is another. For those that have never dealt with more than a few joins a day, it's a hard concept to grasp. I've been able to look at such in a variety of capacities and it is what it is.

                                            Of course that's the reason that 5% of this business takes home 90% of the money.
                                            KimmyKim you are 100% correct. Without reading all of the responses to this thread, because 90% of them couldn't get a clue if it hit them in the head... you are correct. With volume comes chargbacks. No matter what level of customer service, quality for the purchase price, updates to the site, free t-shirts, etc for members that stay x number of months, people will still bitch. I have had members more times than I can count want me to refund 2 years worth of recurring charges because they didn't know they were being billed. (translation their wife found out) Customers will bitch about anything and everything and the higher volume you do the bigger the problem will be.

                                            I don't know what the answer is.. perhaps a scale based on volume and past history. That would protect the bigger established companys and eliminate the fly by night scammers.
                                            icq 1904905

                                              Comment

                                              • quiet
                                                we'll miss you our friend. RIP
                                                • Sep 2001
                                                • 25115
                                                #162
                                                Originally posted by OneHungLo
                                                Same here.
                                                great site btw
                                                we'll miss you our friend. RIP

                                                  Comment

                                                  • TDF
                                                    Triple OG nigga on GFY
                                                    • Mar 2002
                                                    • 27296
                                                    #163
                                                    Originally posted by quiet


                                                    great site btw

                                                    one of the few i subscribe to
                                                    Sig heil

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Kimmykim
                                                        bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                        • Jun 2001
                                                        • 16015
                                                        #164
                                                        Originally posted by netbilling


                                                        Lens,

                                                        We have hundreds of mainstream merchants who are well below 1%.
                                                        Chargebacks are rampant in the adult arena but not mainstream which is one reasson we can setup a mainstram merchant with a merchant account and processing in about 24 hours on the average.

                                                        Mitch
                                                        Hmmm, Mitch, I wonder how the following types of merchants do.

                                                        magazine subscriptions
                                                        domain name registration services
                                                        calling cards
                                                        video sales
                                                        discount buying clubs

                                                        And a few others...

                                                          Comment

                                                          • jojojo
                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                            • Mar 2002
                                                            • 2318
                                                            #165
                                                            I don't know what the answer is.. perhaps a scale based on volume and past history. That would protect the bigger established companys and eliminate the fly by night scammers.
                                                            This makes sense but would they ever be that reasonable? If the answer is no, then why not. What motivation does Visa have to be unreasonable? Is it purely financial?
                                                            Learn SEO - make $$ residually - icq me 333485092

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Ice
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Nov 2002
                                                                • 26053
                                                                #166
                                                                Originally posted by Kimmykim


                                                                Hmmm, Mitch, I wonder how the following types of merchants do.

                                                                magazine subscriptions
                                                                domain name registration services
                                                                calling cards
                                                                video sales
                                                                discount buying clubs

                                                                And a few others...
                                                                Great point KimmyKim... why is the adult industry getting lumped all together but "mainstream" is not. I use to use paypal for my live video chat site and the people got what they paid for right on the spot but yet paypal will not process anymore. How can that be compaired to a pay site that rips you off or someone that sells adult content, services and doesn't deliver????

                                                                thank you for keeping up the intelegence level on GFY
                                                                icq 1904905

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Kimmykim
                                                                    bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                    • Jun 2001
                                                                    • 16015
                                                                    #167
                                                                    Aw shucks, I just feel like I'm pissing in the wind ice ice.

                                                                    If this thing were to come to fruition at its worst, some businesses would come out looking like a million dollars.

                                                                    People who want porn will continue to pay for porn.

                                                                    The system will adapt and those that adapt with it will continue to bring home just as much money as they ever did.

                                                                    Once again there's a lower middle subset that will bear the pain of it all, just like with the tax system.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • vapewiz
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Nov 2002
                                                                        • 1530
                                                                        #168
                                                                        Just wondering how Visa measures a chargeback ratio? Do they measure it by current month? Year to date? Overall sales?

                                                                        A friend and I were talking and if they do it by month and you have a member that charges back for the last 6 months and you make less then $18k/month you are over 1%....

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Donnie Gangsta
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Mar 2002
                                                                            • 1104
                                                                            #169
                                                                            Originally posted by iceicebaby


                                                                            Great point KimmyKim... why is the adult industry getting lumped all together but "mainstream" is not. I use to use paypal for my live video chat site and the people got what they paid for right on the spot but yet paypal will not process anymore. How can that be compaired to a pay site that rips you off or someone that sells adult content, services and doesn't deliver????

                                                                            thank you for keeping up the intelegence level on GFY
                                                                            off topic but what software did/do you use for point to point chat streaming.. and was it good for dial up users? cheers.. been looking for something not shitty for a couple of months now.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • drops
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Feb 2002
                                                                                • 1116
                                                                                #170
                                                                                "Donnie"

                                                                                Have we done crosses together?
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                                                                                  • NETbilling
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Jan 2002
                                                                                    • 8598
                                                                                    #171
                                                                                    Originally posted by cutetwink
                                                                                    Just wondering how Visa measures a chargeback ratio? Do they measure it by current month? Year to date? Overall sales?

                                                                                    A friend and I were talking and if they do it by month and you have a member that charges back for the last 6 months and you make less then $18k/month you are over 1%....
                                                                                    Chargebacks are measured several ways including the number of monthly sales compared to the number of chargebacks as well as the dollar processing volume in a given month compared to the dollar volume of chargebacks.

                                                                                    Mitch


                                                                                    Mitch Farber
                                                                                    CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
                                                                                    Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
                                                                                    Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • thecat
                                                                                        Registered User
                                                                                        • Apr 2003
                                                                                        • 24
                                                                                        #172
                                                                                        Originally posted by Kimmykim


                                                                                        I'll refer to my initial sentence again. My point's been proven.

                                                                                        Off to do some pondering.

                                                                                        Not a bad idea... the rope gets tighter!

                                                                                        You sure do like to kiss ass...you must
                                                                                        wear a lot of chap stick!

                                                                                        sweety...

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • Groove
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Jan 2003
                                                                                            • 3852
                                                                                            #173
                                                                                            Can anyone tell me the:

                                                                                            Chargeback limit for mainstream merchants?

                                                                                            Typical average rebill and cross-sell ratios for the major players?

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Kimmykim
                                                                                                bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                                • Jun 2001
                                                                                                • 16015
                                                                                                #174
                                                                                                Originally posted by thecat



                                                                                                Not a bad idea... the rope gets tighter!

                                                                                                You sure do like to kiss ass...you must
                                                                                                wear a lot of chap stick!

                                                                                                sweety...
                                                                                                No one's anon here ;)

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • Kimmykim
                                                                                                    bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                                    • Jun 2001
                                                                                                    • 16015
                                                                                                    #175
                                                                                                    Originally posted by cutetwink
                                                                                                    Just wondering how Visa measures a chargeback ratio? Do they measure it by current month? Year to date? Overall sales?

                                                                                                    A friend and I were talking and if they do it by month and you have a member that charges back for the last 6 months and you make less then $18k/month you are over 1%....
                                                                                                    Sales are made in months 1,2,3,4,5,6,etc...

                                                                                                    Chargebacks come in a month to 3 later. So month 1 sales would generate cbs in months 3 and 4 typically, though if you get a multiple cb (where someone charges back several months) then you could see month 1 sales becoming cb's in month 6,7, 8...

                                                                                                    Chargeback ratios are counted against the month they come in -- for instance if you did 100 sales in 1, and got 2 cbs in 4, that is not a 2% cb rate on Month 1. If you had 300 sales in Month 4 when the cbs came in, then you'd actually have a .05% cb ratio.

                                                                                                    But let's say that you had those 300 sales in Month 4 and you had 3 cb's come in Month 7, when you had a drop in sales and only did 200 sales. You're now at 1.5% for Month 7 on the count.

                                                                                                    Makes no real sense due to the fact that it doesn't collate sales and chargebacks to the initial transaction dates together, but it's just the way it's done.

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • magnatique
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Jan 2001
                                                                                                        • 1830
                                                                                                        #176
                                                                                                        Originally posted by Nosmo King


                                                                                                        Whatever. So Magnetique was totally full of shit when he proclaimed that you are a paid consultant for Epoch? I guess that guy does not know what he is talking about? Where would he get such an idea? He is obviously in error!
                                                                                                        look pal, until I sleep with kimmy, I won't know everything for a fact LOL...

                                                                                                        take a chill pill man... I got it wrong.. EpassePorte... not paycom...

                                                                                                        Big deal... She's Kimmy for me anyways, I don't need to know where she's from LOL


                                                                                                        btw, get the name right.

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                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • quiet
                                                                                                            we'll miss you our friend. RIP
                                                                                                            • Sep 2001
                                                                                                            • 25115
                                                                                                            #177
                                                                                                            Originally posted by Kimmykim let's say that you had those 300 sales in Month 4 and you had 3 cb's come in Month 7, when you had a drop in sales and only did 200 sales. You're now at 1.5% for Month 7 on the count.

                                                                                                            Makes no real sense due to the fact that it doesn't collate sales and chargebacks to the initial transaction dates together, but it's just the way it's done.
                                                                                                            no doubt. this is something of a trap for those with a recurring program looking to shut down... how do you get out without selling?
                                                                                                            we'll miss you our friend. RIP

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • magnatique
                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                • 1830
                                                                                                                #178
                                                                                                                Originally posted by Kimmykim


                                                                                                                I'm not bending any truth, and you know what? FUCK YOU for saying so.

                                                                                                                I've stated it about a million times including at least twice in this thread.

                                                                                                                I don't know why you people are so hell bent on making me an Epoch employee when I'm not. Or an Epoch consultant when I'm not.

                                                                                                                Mag doesn't cash my checks, and I love how NemoQueen has tried to take the points Mag made and turn them to suit his anti-kimmy rant because I pointed out the flaws in his reasoning.

                                                                                                                Leave Mag out of it. Geez.

                                                                                                                This shit is getting funny...

                                                                                                                now this guy is trying to give you shit because I mixed paycom and EpassePorte...??? pal... can'ty crack the girl with your arguments, you gotta go on a fuckup I had with the companies I work with? OK ... Here... Paycom has develloped EpassePorte... I was brought EpassePort from paycom... telling me to set it up for our affiliate... Hence the mixup... I tend to do that... just like I would say fantasyman from CE, not from follow-me, cemags, or all his great programs..

                                                                                                                wow... C'mon now...!

                                                                                                                Kimmy for me is Good Ole Kimmy from CcBill... or the Kimmy that helped me so many times... All I know is she is acting as a consultant for a company Starting up in real close relations with Paycom.

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                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • magnatique
                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                    • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                    • 1830
                                                                                                                    #179
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by quiet


                                                                                                                    no doubt. this is something of a trap for those with a recurring program looking to shut down... how do you get out without selling?
                                                                                                                    Quiet... I keep forgetting your damn email when I want to send you something ;)

                                                                                                                    I'll try sending to montreal....

                                                                                                                    Stunner Media Programs: StandAhead | IndieBucks | BoyCrushCash | Phoenixxx | EmoProfits | BritishBucks | HunkMoney | LatinoBucks
                                                                                                                    Make $$$ with Gay! Lowest Minimum Payouts in the Business, Perfect Track Record, Amazing Sites

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • John3
                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                        • May 2003
                                                                                                                        • 1214
                                                                                                                        #180
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by netbilling


                                                                                                                        Chargebacks are measured several ways including the number of monthly sales compared to the number of chargebacks as well as the dollar processing volume in a given month compared to the dollar volume of chargebacks.

                                                                                                                        Mitch
                                                                                                                        excuse me? how can you say that with a straight face?

                                                                                                                        that's like me saying "yes, IRS, I measure my taxes several diferent ways and I choose to pay the one that is cheapest for me".

                                                                                                                        Hook 'em.

                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • Carrie
                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                            • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                            • 3162
                                                                                                                            #181
                                                                                                                            Kimmy, from your experience seeing all of the large programs' cb ratios over the past 3 years, how many large companies do you think will be getting fined out the ying-yang come November?

                                                                                                                            How many do you think will be closed down by the end of the year?

                                                                                                                            Not asking *who* here, just how many.

                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • scooby doo as scooby does
                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                • Nov 2002
                                                                                                                                • 314
                                                                                                                                #182
                                                                                                                                One thing I've never understood is why IPSP's do not insist on a ISP or pay email address. It's not hard to implement, it ties a transaction to a person (ok, can be spoofed/frauded, but much harder to deny), and deals with the major reason for online chargebacks, the 'I didn't do it' claim (which last figures I saw was 47% of all CB's).

                                                                                                                                I guess a random password sent to the email address would be required to verify, but loads of sites do that now anyway.

                                                                                                                                I know some sales would be lost, there are a small of minority of people who don't have that type of email address, and presumably some people would baulk at giving a 'real' email address, but the loss must be outweighed by the gain surely ?

                                                                                                                                Must be a reason why they don't do that, but curious anyway.



                                                                                                                                Alternatively, we could only allow the French to join our sites as I believe it's illegal to chargeback in France (saw *something* about that somewhere)
                                                                                                                                In 1904, Charles Newman-Berry connected two abacus's together using specially enhanced GrapeVine thus inventing the first Internet connection.

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                                                                                                                                  • m0rph3us
                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                    • Mar 2001
                                                                                                                                    • 2033
                                                                                                                                    #183
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by John3

                                                                                                                                    excuse me? how can you say that with a straight face?

                                                                                                                                    that's like me saying "yes, IRS, I measure my taxes several diferent ways and I choose to pay the one that is cheapest for me".
                                                                                                                                    He is right and he knows what he's talking about. Chargebacks can be measured both by dollar volume and transaction count.
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                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                      • John3
                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                        • May 2003
                                                                                                                                        • 1214
                                                                                                                                        #184
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by m0rph3us


                                                                                                                                        He is right and he knows what he's talking about. Chargebacks can be measured both by dollar volume and transaction count.
                                                                                                                                        I didn't say he was wrong. I'm saying that it's bullshit.

                                                                                                                                        Hook 'em.

                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                          • Kimmykim
                                                                                                                                            bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                                                                            • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                            • 16015
                                                                                                                                            #185
                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Carrie
                                                                                                                                            Kimmy, from your experience seeing all of the large programs' cb ratios over the past 3 years, how many large companies do you think will be getting fined out the ying-yang come November?

                                                                                                                                            How many do you think will be closed down by the end of the year?

                                                                                                                                            Not asking *who* here, just how many.
                                                                                                                                            I would guess that maybe a couple will take this as a chance to take their toys and go home. They've made enough money and want out anyway.

                                                                                                                                            As for the rest of the large programs, you don't get to that size unless you are prepared and ready for nearly anything. I think unless they choose to leave, none of them will close down and alot of them won't be fined to death either.

                                                                                                                                            I would guess that those in the 350 to 700 sales a day range stand to lose the most if they are over, since they are certainly businesspeople but not on the scale of the guys pulling in 1k, 2k, etc per day.

                                                                                                                                            This isn't all gloom and doom the more I think about it.

                                                                                                                                            I don't agree with Visa in the way they are doing this and how they are qualifying it, and I certainly don't see the logic behind it. But I don't work at Visa either (though someone will probably swear I'm lying lol) so who knows whats in their minds.

                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                              • m0rph3us
                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                • Mar 2001
                                                                                                                                                • 2033
                                                                                                                                                #186
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by John3

                                                                                                                                                I didn't say he was wrong. I'm saying that it's bullshit.
                                                                                                                                                it's visa/mc/banks' way of making sure you don't just add one 100,000 $1 transactions to make your ratio look pretty.

                                                                                                                                                They can look at dollar volume any second and catch you there.
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                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                  • Kimmykim
                                                                                                                                                    bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                    • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                    • 16015
                                                                                                                                                    #187
                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by scooby doo as scooby does
                                                                                                                                                    One thing I've never understood is why IPSP's do not insist on a ISP or pay email address. It's not hard to implement, it ties a transaction to a person (ok, can be spoofed/frauded, but much harder to deny), and deals with the major reason for online chargebacks, the 'I didn't do it' claim (which last figures I saw was 47% of all CB's).
                                                                                                                                                    The sad fact is that without a signature you can't stop a chargeback, unless you could get an ISP to document the users IP address as being issued to that account at that time on the day in question. Not something that would happen without a court order in most cases and that makes the cost of doing such way more prohibitive than the cost of a chargeback.

                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                      • John3
                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                        • May 2003
                                                                                                                                                        • 1214
                                                                                                                                                        #188
                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by m0rph3us


                                                                                                                                                        it's visa/mc/banks' way of making sure you don't just add one 100,000 $1 transactions to make your ratio look pretty.

                                                                                                                                                        They can look at dollar volume any second and catch you there.
                                                                                                                                                        you're making my point for me.

                                                                                                                                                        unless there is a set standard, who is to know whether a site is in compliance or not?

                                                                                                                                                        Hook 'em.

                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                          • m0rph3us
                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                            • Mar 2001
                                                                                                                                                            • 2033
                                                                                                                                                            #189
                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by John3

                                                                                                                                                            you're making my point for me.

                                                                                                                                                            unless there is a set standard, who is to know whether a site is in compliance or not?
                                                                                                                                                            it is a 'standard', just that visa, mc and the banks change it like they're surfing TV channels.

                                                                                                                                                            Visa Rules and Fees
                                                                                                                                                            Chargebacks must be less than 2.5% of total monthly dollar volume.

                                                                                                                                                            MasterCard Rules and Fees
                                                                                                                                                            Chargebacks must be less than 2.5% (3.25%) of total monthly dollar volume or 1% of total monthly transactions

                                                                                                                                                            Not sure how outdated this info is, but for real answers talk to your acquiring bank.
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                                                                                                                                                              • Kimmykim
                                                                                                                                                                bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                • 16015
                                                                                                                                                                #190
                                                                                                                                                                Dollar volume isn't nearly as effective as transaction count for putting merchants into monitoring...

                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                  • XYCash
                                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                    • Jun 2003
                                                                                                                                                                    • 582
                                                                                                                                                                    #191
                                                                                                                                                                    I'm sitting here almost laughing at how absurd this is getting. They just keep putting the squeeze on don't they? I hear rumours that Mastercard is also coming out with some new rules too in a couple weeks.

                                                                                                                                                                    -joe
                                                                                                                                                                    XYCash Gay Affiliate Programs - Making Money For Webmasters Since 1999 - click here to sign up

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                                                                                                                                                                      • Carrie
                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                        • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                                                        • 3162
                                                                                                                                                                        #192
                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Kimmykim
                                                                                                                                                                        I would guess that maybe a couple will take this as a chance to take their toys and go home. They've made enough money and want out anyway.
                                                                                                                                                                        I have heard a few people say things like that. Makes me wonder how they'll do it with their recurring memberships. Risking going over that chargeback ratio would cost them fines and most likely (not sure?) put them in the TMF. (Permanently, even?)

                                                                                                                                                                        This isn't all gloom and doom the more I think about it.
                                                                                                                                                                        Well it does seem like it would "weed out" quite a few of the middle-sized guys and possibly make things better for the industry.

                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for the reply.
                                                                                                                                                                        Now it's just a situation of waiting for Visa to figure out what they're going to do with AVS programs to see how things will really shake out. (As I suspect some folks who can't keep a low cb ratio may initially think of heading to premium AVS.)

                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                                          • Carrie
                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                            • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                                                            • 3162
                                                                                                                                                                            #193
                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by XYCash
                                                                                                                                                                            I'm sitting here almost laughing at how absurd this is getting. They just keep putting the squeeze on don't they? I hear rumours that Mastercard is also coming out with some new rules too in a couple weeks.

                                                                                                                                                                            -joe
                                                                                                                                                                            WTF? *Can* they actually go any lower? LOL... sheesh. (I'm sure they can, just don't see how feasible it would be.)

                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                              • quiet
                                                                                                                                                                                we'll miss you our friend. RIP
                                                                                                                                                                                • Sep 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                • 25115
                                                                                                                                                                                #194
                                                                                                                                                                                KK - let's say you have a very low cb percentage, and have for a long time. is there any reason to think this is going to change, if the only 'real' change is that the cb threshold has been lowered to 1%?

                                                                                                                                                                                thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                we'll miss you our friend. RIP

                                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                  • jojojo
                                                                                                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                                    • Mar 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                    • 2318
                                                                                                                                                                                    #195
                                                                                                                                                                                    As for the rest of the large programs, you don't get to that size unless you are prepared and ready for nearly anything. I think unless they choose to leave, none of them will close down and alot of them won't be fined to death either.
                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you think affiliates will make the same amount of money sending their traffic to big programs once this has all shaken out?

                                                                                                                                                                                    It sounds like affiliates are going to take a hit here.

                                                                                                                                                                                    If other smaller programs can stay under 1% then how can the big programs compete?
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                                                                                                                                                                                      • Carrie
                                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                        • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                        • 3162
                                                                                                                                                                                        #196
                                                                                                                                                                                        Imagine, if you will, that you're watching TV and the following commercial comes on...

                                                                                                                                                                                        -camera pans around a nice bright sunny kitchen, focusing in on a pretty 30-something woman who is sitting at the table drinking her coffee and going over her bills. Suddenly her eyes go wide and the camera zooms in on her bill, which clearly says "All You Can Surf Adult Site" with a big $50 charge.
                                                                                                                                                                                        -(commentator voiceover) "Visa cares about its customers. Find a charge you didn't make? Just call us - we'll make it right. Or go online to Visa.Com"... (fade picture to Visa's 'zero liability' web page) ..."and let us know about it. Visa is committed to protecting you from"... (view switches back to "All You Can Surf Adult Site" on the bill) ..."charges that you... didn't expect."

                                                                                                                                                                                        -camera switches to the woman, who gets a wry smile on her face and confidently picks up the phone and starts dialing.
                                                                                                                                                                                        -(female voice through telephone) "Thank you for calling Visa, how can I help you today?"
                                                                                                                                                                                        -(woman) "Hi. I was just going over my bill, and I've found a charge for an adult website that I didn't make..."
                                                                                                                                                                                        -(phone operator) "No problem, ma'am. I'll take care of that for you. Could I get your account number please?" (conversation fades off quickly)
                                                                                                                                                                                        -camera shows woman hanging up the phone and smiling confidently as she uses her pen to draw a line through the "fraudulent" charge and picks up her coffee cup.
                                                                                                                                                                                        -(commentator voiceover) "Zero liability. Just another reason why millions of online surfers choose Visa - and they don't choose American Express."

                                                                                                                                                                                        One commercial run like that during a high-profile show, like say Survivor each week... now *that* would wake people up and *really* give them the idea to join and chargeback.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Now imagine if they ran the commercial every night on prime-time on all of the major networks.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Quiet, I think that might even take *your* ratio and trash it. It's a scary thought... but I think it's coming.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                          • XYCash
                                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                            • Jun 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                            • 582
                                                                                                                                                                                            #197
                                                                                                                                                                                            It would be nice if for once VISA would look at their cardholders and institute a fool proof program to avoid chargebacks from slimey customers. 99.99% of the chargebacks we get are for customers who accessed the site, but just don't want to pay - or the wife found out and the husband obviously denies he ever went to a gay site.

                                                                                                                                                                                            I think the above is the case for most sponsors, maybe minus the gay part.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Why I'm even writing this I don't know - it's not like it's ever going to happen.

                                                                                                                                                                                            -joe
                                                                                                                                                                                            XYCash Gay Affiliate Programs - Making Money For Webmasters Since 1999 - click here to sign up

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                                                                                                                                                                                              • Carrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                                • 3162
                                                                                                                                                                                                #198
                                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by jojojo
                                                                                                                                                                                                If other smaller programs can stay under 1% then how can the big programs compete?
                                                                                                                                                                                                Smaller programs usually have smaller payouts or strictly revshare models, so even if the big companies did lower payouts (which they most likely will after taking off forced cross-sells), they'd still be competitive with the smaller guys who have better cb ratios.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Plus larger programs offer a greater selection of sites to promote, which the smaller programs can't do - so if the end paycheck is going to be the same, affiliates are more likely to migrate to the larger companies where they can send *all* of their traffic (and get other incentives like 'reward points').
                                                                                                                                                                                                The lower payouts will chase out many webmasters, but the defining factor will be signup ratios. If Smaller Program has better ratios than Larger Program, many webmasters will stick with Smaller Program even though they don't get the added incentives.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                  • XYCash
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Jun 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • 582
                                                                                                                                                                                                    #199
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Carrie

                                                                                                                                                                                                    The lower payouts will chase out many webmasters, but the defining factor will be signup ratios. If Smaller Program has better ratios than Larger Program, many webmasters will stick with Smaller Program even though they don't get the added incentives.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    That's if there's still affiliate programs after this. In light of this news it's a serious cost consideration for any sponsor to move away from promoting their sites using affiliates to buying traffic and marketing their own sites.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Kimmykim
                                                                                                                                                                                                        bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • 16015
                                                                                                                                                                                                        #200
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by quiet
                                                                                                                                                                                                        KK - let's say you have a very low cb percentage, and have for a long time. is there any reason to think this is going to change, if the only 'real' change is that the cb threshold has been lowered to 1%?

                                                                                                                                                                                                        thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I would say it shouldn't be a problem but I would never say it won't be a problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Visa is eliminating the cdc, or customer disputed chargback, category and making everything overall chargeback to interchange ratio.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        One of the other things that bears some thought here is that chargeback ratios aren't always the fault of the consumer or the site operator.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Let's say your site is down for a few days out of the month one month -- a technical difficulty or something like that, and your sales drop for the month because of it. Your chargebacks don't drop because they are based on prior months sales, so they would actually increase due to events that you could not control.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yeah, 3 months down the road your cb's would be way lower for that month since your sales were lower (provided you went back to normal sales after the technical problems) but that doesn't help you when you can be moved into monitoring on the basis of a bad month. I'm not sure that someone can be moved immediately into monitoring, there are a couple of things I'd like to have clarified for me before I'm sure on some stuff.

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