Urgent: Important change for Visa Compliance

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  • directfiesta
    Too lazy to set a custom title
    • Oct 2002
    • 30195

    #1

    Urgent: Important change for Visa Compliance

    Just got this...


    June 25, 2003



    Dear Valued iBill Merchant,



    In order to ensure that our clients are in legal compliance with the Federal Labeling and Record-Keeping Law, 18 U.S.C. 2257, and as specified in our contractual agreement, iBill will be requiring the disclosure of certain information on your adult web sites. This information is legally required for all adult content merchants and we request that you add the following information within the next 30 days to ensure that your web site is compliant with the law. Failure to post the 18 U.S.C. 2257 statement to your site in 30 days (including the Custodian of Records contact information), may cause an interruption in processing and payment for your Sponsored Merchant ID.

    Please add the following to the main page of your site:

    1. The statement: "All models were at least 18 years old when they

    were photographed."

    2. Add a link to: "18 U.S.C. 2257 Statement"

    3. This link should go to a page where the following information is

    stated: "In compliance with the Federal Labeling and Record-Keeping Law (also known as 18 U.S.C. 2257), all models located within our domain were 18 years of age or older during the time of photography. All models' proof of age is held by the custodian of records, which is listed below, organized by producer. All content and images are in full compliance with the requirements of 18 U.S.C. 2257 and associated regulations."

    · Custodian of Records
    · Name
    · Address
    · City,
    · State,
    · Zip
    · Country/Providence
    · Telephone number
    · E-mail address

    We appreciate your compliance with this requirement.

    For more information, please contact our client service team at [email protected]

    We can also be reached at 866.424.5557(US) or 954-363-4931(International).



    Thank you for your business,

    iBill









    ************************************************** ********************
    This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
    intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
    are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
    the system manager.
    ************************************************** ********************
    I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

    But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
  • SleazyDream
    I'm here for SPORT
    • Jul 2001
    • 41470

    #2
    welcome to yesterday
    This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!

    Now read without the word dog.

    Comment

    • necoeds
      Confirmed User
      • Nov 2002
      • 2453

      #3
      Originally posted by SleazyDream
      welcome to yesterday
      Yeah, i got that yesterday too..
      Message me to promote nebraskacoeds + network sites...

      Comment

      • Nysus
        Confirmed User
        • Aug 2001
        • 7817

        #4
        2257 information should be on all sites anyways. 30 days is plenty of time to be compliant as well. Good job Visa for forcing this.

        Cheers,
        Matt
        What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

        Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

        See http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=16744521 and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=948645

        Comment

        • loverboy
          When it rains, it pours
          • May 2003
          • 20609

          #5
          what's new with iBill? i heard alot of bad things from them.

          Comment

          • SleazyDream
            I'm here for SPORT
            • Jul 2001
            • 41470

            #6
            Originally posted by Nysus
            2257 information should be on all sites anyways. 30 days is plenty of time to be compliant as well. Good job Visa for forcing this.

            Cheers,
            Matt
            here we go - advise from the expert................
            This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!

            Now read without the word dog.

            Comment

            • Nysus
              Confirmed User
              • Aug 2001
              • 7817

              #7
              Originally posted by SleazyDream


              here we go - advise from the expert................
              If you want to call me an expert from simply reading things that AaronM and LadyMischief have written/posted before and from seminars then go ahead.

              Cheers,
              Matt
              What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

              Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

              See http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=16744521 and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=948645

              Comment

              • SleazyDream
                I'm here for SPORT
                • Jul 2001
                • 41470

                #8
                Originally posted by Nysus


                If you want to call me an expert from simply reading things that AaronM and LadyMischief have written/posted before and from seminars then go ahead.

                Cheers,
                Matt

                there's only one word I know to describe you, and it's DUMBASS
                This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!

                Now read without the word dog.

                Comment

                • directfiesta
                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 30195

                  #9
                  Just for discussion purpose....

                  This rule is implemented by Visa US, not the other regions ...

                  So only the US sites, or sites using a ' US presence" have to comply.
                  Sites from other region will not have to comply to this.

                  So, a lot of US sites will have to remove perfectly legal product because they do not have IN HAND the proper paperwork. Others will have to remove plugins because no such documentation is required in Holland as an example. And bye bye celebreties sites ...

                  I just fell that the " knot" is getting tighter...
                  I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                  But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                  Comment

                  • tony299
                    lurker
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 57021

                    #10
                    So, a lot of US sites will have to remove perfectly legal product because they do not have IN HAND the proper paperwork.


                    This isnt something new this is the law. Its sad the a third party processor has to police this, when webmasters should of been doing it them selves.

                    Comment

                    • XYCash
                      Confirmed User
                      • Jun 2003
                      • 582

                      #11
                      Originally posted by directfiesta
                      Just for discussion purpose....

                      This rule is implemented by Visa US, not the other regions ...

                      So only the US sites, or sites using a ' US presence" have to comply.
                      Sites from other region will not have to comply to this.

                      So, a lot of US sites will have to remove perfectly legal product because they do not have IN HAND the proper paperwork. Others will have to remove plugins because no such documentation is required in Holland as an example. And bye bye celebreties sites ...

                      I just fell that the " knot" is getting tighter...
                      The rule is implemented by IBill. I haven't seen anything that says webmasters outside the U.S. do not have to comply..where did you find this?

                      You do not have to have the paperwork in hand...2257 allows for secondary producers to refer to the primary producers address and keeper of the records - that is how plug ins can be handled.
                      XYCash Gay Affiliate Programs - Making Money For Webmasters Since 1999 - click here to sign up

                      Comment

                      • SleazyDream
                        I'm here for SPORT
                        • Jul 2001
                        • 41470

                        #12
                        Originally posted by tony404
                        So, a lot of US sites will have to remove perfectly legal product because they do not have IN HAND the proper paperwork.


                        This isnt something new this is the law. Its sad the a third party processor has to police this, when webmasters should of been doing it them selves.
                        um no, obviously you don't understand the legislation. read some of the posts after yours to get a better idea of what this actually means
                        This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!

                        Now read without the word dog.

                        Comment

                        • directfiesta
                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                          • Oct 2002
                          • 30195

                          #13
                          Originally posted by XYCash


                          The rule is implemented by IBill. I haven't seen anything that says webmasters outside the U.S. do not have to comply..where did you find this?

                          Have received this only for my US presence account, not for my European one...

                          Any of you processing in another region than US has received such an email?
                          I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                          But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                          Comment

                          • tony299
                            lurker
                            • Aug 2002
                            • 57021

                            #14
                            Originally posted by SleazyDream


                            um no, obviously you don't understand the legislation. read some of the posts after yours to get a better idea of what this actually means
                            Obviously you never took the time to read 2257, if you did you would know what you have to have in hand and not.

                            Comment

                            • XYCash
                              Confirmed User
                              • Jun 2003
                              • 582

                              #15
                              I'll cite an article from YNOT:

                              http://articles.ynotmasters.com/feat...al_briefs.html

                              A common misconception in this business is webmasters can use a license agreement from a content provider stating that they will provide proof of age documentation upon request, or can act as the Custodian of Record. However, this does not satisfy the laws. 2257 requires that primary producers have original copies of the records, and secondary producers, i.e. webmasters, have copies of the same documentation with the name and address of the primary producer included. This information must be available at their place of business. If law enforcement comes knocking on your door and you point the finger to your content provider, whom do you think they are going to lock up?

                              The only exception for not having the required documentation occurs when an original work is merely re-packaged. If someone purchases adult videos in bulk, and merely changes the packaging without altering the actual tapes in any way, they are not required to carry age verification records. If the tape is re-assembled, cut, or edited, the tape is considered a new creative work, making the distributor a "Secondary Producer," who must comply with the record keeping requirements. There is no such provision in the rules exempting web masters from having the required documentation because a web master is re-assembling the content and generating a new creative work, thereby qualifying as a secondary producer. Los Angeles attorney and Free Speech Coalition Board Member, Jeffrey Douglas expressed, "It is inevitable that the next administration will prosecute adult web sites as secondary producers under 2257. While there may be defenses and alternative interpretations, failing to comply is playing Russian roulette with your livelihood, your peace of mind, and your liberty."


                              I think plug ins would fall under merely being re-packaged.
                              XYCash Gay Affiliate Programs - Making Money For Webmasters Since 1999 - click here to sign up

                              Comment

                              • XYCash
                                Confirmed User
                                • Jun 2003
                                • 582

                                #16
                                Originally posted by directfiesta


                                Have received this only for my US presence account, not for my European one...

                                Any of you processing in another region than US has received such an email?
                                I know a webmaster in Australia was in here complaining about the e-mail yesterday.

                                http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ighlight=ibill
                                XYCash Gay Affiliate Programs - Making Money For Webmasters Since 1999 - click here to sign up

                                Comment

                                • directfiesta
                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                  • Oct 2002
                                  • 30195

                                  #17
                                  Thanks for the info and link ( was on Holiday yesterday...) and I really just got their email a few minutes ago...

                                  So I am right when I say that the actual webmaster must have IN HAND a copy of the documentation...

                                  So the actual name, SNN, address, etc of my models will be distributed to "webmasters" that pay a few $$$ to purchase the content.
                                  Who will prevent the model release and personnal info to circulate all over the web to finally end up in the hands of a stalker, perv and/or rapists.

                                  And this 2257 is again a US law. What would US webmaster do if let say France ( your favorite country, hehe...) would make a similar law ? Would you comply?
                                  I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                  But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                  Comment

                                  • Brujah
                                    Beer Money Baron
                                    • Jan 2001
                                    • 22157

                                    #18
                                    IBill

                                    Comment

                                    • SleazyDream
                                      I'm here for SPORT
                                      • Jul 2001
                                      • 41470

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by tony404


                                      Obviously you never took the time to read 2257, if you did you would know what you have to have in hand and not.
                                      umm, actually I have. It's QUITE clear you havn't though.......
                                      This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!

                                      Now read without the word dog.

                                      Comment

                                      • Calvinguy
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Oct 2002
                                        • 1752

                                        #20
                                        I got the email too and I really doubt that visa EU tell IBIll that European clients must follow US laws.

                                        Comment

                                        • 12clicks
                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                          • Jan 2001
                                          • 19814

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by XYCash
                                          I'll cite an article from YNOT:

                                          http://articles.ynotmasters.com/feat...al_briefs.html

                                          This looks like just another guy hawking his product and use fear for the sales pitch.
                                          I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                          Comment

                                          • tony299
                                            lurker
                                            • Aug 2002
                                            • 57021

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by XYCash
                                            I'll cite an article from YNOT:

                                            http://articles.ynotmasters.com/feat...al_briefs.html

                                            A common misconception in this business is webmasters can use a license agreement from a content provider stating that they will provide proof of age documentation upon request, or can act as the Custodian of Record. However, this does not satisfy the laws. 2257 requires that primary producers have original copies of the records, and secondary producers, i.e. webmasters, have copies of the same documentation with the name and address of the primary producer included. This information must be available at their place of business. If law enforcement comes knocking on your door and you point the finger to your content provider, whom do you think they are going to lock up?

                                            The only exception for not having the required documentation occurs when an original work is merely re-packaged. If someone purchases adult videos in bulk, and merely changes the packaging without altering the actual tapes in any way, they are not required to carry age verification records. If the tape is re-assembled, cut, or edited, the tape is considered a new creative work, making the distributor a "Secondary Producer," who must comply with the record keeping requirements. There is no such provision in the rules exempting web masters from having the required documentation because a web master is re-assembling the content and generating a new creative work, thereby qualifying as a secondary producer. Los Angeles attorney and Free Speech Coalition Board Member, Jeffrey Douglas expressed, "It is inevitable that the next administration will prosecute adult web sites as secondary producers under 2257. While there may be defenses and alternative interpretations, failing to comply is playing Russian roulette with your livelihood, your peace of mind, and your liberty."


                                            I think plug ins would fall under merely being re-packaged.

                                            This guy is not a lawyer and he is selling some product at the end of the article. If you are really interested in knowing spend $150 dollars and call a lawyer and get facts not opinions.

                                            Comment

                                            • directfiesta
                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                              • Oct 2002
                                              • 30195

                                              #23
                                              How in hell will US police forces come to Canada to ask me to show the documentation???

                                              Will the next step be that all records shall be kept in the US ???

                                              And then that all galleries makers have a copy of the record of the model that they promote...

                                              Anyway, back to work.
                                              I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                              But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                              Comment

                                              • SleazyDream
                                                I'm here for SPORT
                                                • Jul 2001
                                                • 41470

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by tony404



                                                This guy is not a lawyer and he is selling some product at the end of the article. If you are really interested in knowing spend $150 dollars and call a lawyer and get facts not opinions.
                                                $150 isn't much of a lawyer, obviously that's why you're spouting WRONG advise.
                                                This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!

                                                Now read without the word dog.

                                                Comment

                                                • tony299
                                                  lurker
                                                  • Aug 2002
                                                  • 57021

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by SleazyDream


                                                  $150 isn't much of a lawyer, obviously that's why you're spouting WRONG advise.

                                                  For $150 a lawyer will give you a hour of his time on the phone to answer any questions you have. Maybe your slow so he would have to speak slower and use small words. So $450 for you.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • 12clicks
                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                    • Jan 2001
                                                    • 19814

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by SleazyDream


                                                    $150 isn't much of a lawyer, obviously that's why you're spouting WRONG advise.
                                                    settle down sparky. we're not talking canadian dollars.
                                                    I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • tony299
                                                      lurker
                                                      • Aug 2002
                                                      • 57021

                                                      #27
                                                      And what am I saying is wrong? For plugins that come from other sites you dont need physical documentation. Thats like the guy at the video store does he have hard copies of all the model releases and ids.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • XYCash
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Jun 2003
                                                        • 582

                                                        #28
                                                        Ask Chapo on ynotmasters.com ....the legal board. He's awesome.

                                                        Also...it's not that foreign webmasters have to comply to U.S. law because they are going to get busted in on, their own countries have specific laws. It's that they must comply to suit IBills new directive...IF it does extend to foreign webmasters.

                                                        You should call IBill and find out...that is if anyone will answer the phone.

                                                        2257 is confusing enough for us here in the U.S. ....it must be particularly frustrating for someone from another country.
                                                        Last edited by XYCash; 06-25-2003, 09:15 AM.
                                                        XYCash Gay Affiliate Programs - Making Money For Webmasters Since 1999 - click here to sign up

                                                        Comment

                                                        • directfiesta
                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                          • Oct 2002
                                                          • 30195

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by XYCash


                                                          You should call IBill and find out...
                                                          LOL...
                                                          I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                          But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                          Comment

                                                          • JFPdude
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Jan 2002
                                                            • 4027

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by tony404
                                                            And what am I saying is wrong? For plugins that come from other sites you dont need physical documentation. Thats like the guy at the video store does he have hard copies of all the model releases and ids.

                                                            EinStein : If the plugins are on another site then they are NOT on your site. You need the documentation for anything on your site.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • IanUK
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Oct 2002
                                                              • 51

                                                              #31
                                                              LOL @ calling iBill

                                                              I'm in the UK and got the email today, I've emailed them saying I do not fall under US law, boy I'm glad I've started to move most of my clients to CCBIll EU !!

                                                              iBill just give you one headache after another !

                                                              I'll let you guys know if I ever get a reply to my email...

                                                              Ian

                                                              Comment

                                                              • XYCash
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Jun 2003
                                                                • 582

                                                                #32
                                                                I should also mention...I'd be willing to bet most U.S. based IPSPs will be following suit if they haven't already, requiring everyone have a 2257 statement.

                                                                Think ahead a little....be pro active and you won't get caught in a jam.

                                                                -joe
                                                                XYCash Gay Affiliate Programs - Making Money For Webmasters Since 1999 - click here to sign up

                                                                Comment

                                                                • JMM
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                                  • 1755

                                                                  #33
                                                                  The amount of misinformation available in our business is STAGGERING!

                                                                  The "secondary producers must have docs" theme has been circulated and perpetuated by people trying to sell products and services.

                                                                  QUESTION: Do webmasters have to have the docs?

                                                                  ANSWER: Who knows?

                                                                  FACT: The law does not specifically require secondary producers to have the docs.

                                                                  FACT: There have been NO KNOWN CASES that say that secondary producers have to have the docs (as far as I know).

                                                                  FACT: There have been TWO (maybe 3, I can't remember) FEDERAL DECISIONS that have said that secondary producers (webmasters) DO NOT have to have the docs.


                                                                  Make your own decisions. There are content providers that do provide the docs for licensed (not exclusive) content. In my opinion, they are out of their minds. The safety and privacy issues involved in giving out that information are mind boggling. A crazed psycho who wants to find porn star Jane Doe simply has to go to one of these content providers, pay $25 for a set and they now have her real name, address, phone number, drivers license, date of birth, and social security number. With that information, even if the model has moved, you can find anyone.

                                                                  Just my opinion.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • IanUK
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Oct 2002
                                                                    • 51

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Unbelievable !

                                                                    I just got a reply from iBill
                                                                    Thats gotta be the quickest ever.

                                                                    As I'm an EU client I can ignore the email.


                                                                    Ian

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • 12clicks
                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                      • Jan 2001
                                                                      • 19814

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by JFPdude



                                                                      EinStein : If the plugins are on another site then they are NOT on your site. You need the documentation for anything on your site.
                                                                      dude, lets no go insulting people with "Einstein"
                                                                      I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • XYCash
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Jun 2003
                                                                        • 582

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by JMM
                                                                        The amount of misinformation available in our business is STAGGERING!

                                                                        The "secondary producers must have docs" theme has been circulated and perpetuated by people trying to sell products and services.

                                                                        Every lawyer I've talked to, including my own two HIGHLY reccommend having all the documentation regardless of if you are a primary producer or a secondary.

                                                                        It's called covering your own ass.

                                                                        If you are using pictures of what you think are an 18 year old and it turns out they are a 15 year old...I wonder how many courts would accept the excuse "well....so and so told me she/he was 18" ?

                                                                        -joe
                                                                        XYCash Gay Affiliate Programs - Making Money For Webmasters Since 1999 - click here to sign up

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • 12clicks
                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                          • Jan 2001
                                                                          • 19814

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by JFPdude



                                                                          EinStein : If the plugins are on another site then they are NOT on your site. You need the documentation for anything on your site.
                                                                          dude, lets no go insulting people with "Einstein"
                                                                          I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Tipsy
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Jul 2001
                                                                            • 6989

                                                                            #38
                                                                            I've been putting 2257 info up for a while now on my sites simply to protect my ass even though I don't live in the US. However, I don't and have never seen it say that this must include the telephone number and e-mail address. Going to be fun digging them out if ever I have to as the 2257 info is not always identical to the company info of content suppliers.

                                                                            It's one thing to implement the rules so that iBill think they have covered their own asses but another when they start adding bits to it for little or no reason.

                                                                            Not that it effects me as I don't use them and am not US based but what a PITA they continue to be for those that stayed with them.
                                                                            Last edited by Tipsy; 06-25-2003, 09:40 AM.
                                                                            Ignorance is never bliss.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • tony299
                                                                              lurker
                                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                                              • 57021

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by JFPdude



                                                                              EinStein : If the plugins are on another site then they are NOT on your site. You need the documentation for anything on your site.

                                                                              We have camz on our site for our members , they click on a link to see the camz content. At that point they are not on our site. Also unless you edit the plug ins that come in you are not a secondary producer. READ THE LAW
                                                                              Last edited by tony286; 06-25-2003, 11:11 AM.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • andi_germany
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Oct 2002
                                                                                • 768

                                                                                #40
                                                                                well CCBill required me to put 2257 notices on all my sites of my US account back in January. It really amazes me how fast IBill is ;)
                                                                                SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • directfiesta
                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                                                  • 30195

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  My day for questions.

                                                                                  What about sites tha offer archives from the newsgroups or even the actual newsgroup feed. It is on their servers, so do they need records???
                                                                                  I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                                                  But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Kimmykim
                                                                                    bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                    • Jun 2001
                                                                                    • 16015

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by XYCash


                                                                                    Every lawyer I've talked to, including my own two HIGHLY reccommend having all the documentation regardless of if you are a primary producer or a secondary.

                                                                                    It's called covering your own ass.

                                                                                    If you are using pictures of what you think are an 18 year old and it turns out they are a 15 year old...I wonder how many courts would accept the excuse "well....so and so told me she/he was 18" ?

                                                                                    -joe
                                                                                    Perhaps your lawyers simply do not understand secondary producers and how they are regarded legally.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • BradShaw
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Oct 2001
                                                                                      • 7840

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      When the shit hits the fan, people are going to wish they had proof in hand of every model. Fresh Photos was the first to include this on all cd's years ago.

                                                                                      Listen to your lawyers, not people on GFY who failed out of college, like me.
                                                                                      Sig too big

                                                                                      http://www.gofuckyourself.com/gfy_faqs.html

                                                                                      Want to use a large banner in your sig??? Contact Eric about getting on as an advertiser - eric AT adult.com

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                                                                                      • Kimmykim
                                                                                        bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                        • Jun 2001
                                                                                        • 16015

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        ROFL, some people just can't help but post.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • XYCash
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Jun 2003
                                                                                          • 582

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by Kimmykim


                                                                                          Perhaps your lawyers simply do not understand secondary producers and how they are regarded legally.
                                                                                          yeah....Richard Chapo from adultinternetlaw.com has no clue ...

                                                                                          *ok*

                                                                                          XYCash Gay Affiliate Programs - Making Money For Webmasters Since 1999 - click here to sign up

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • hitman699
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                                                            • 159

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Well, from my recollection of the law you are responsible to have
                                                                                            2257 info posted IF the material you have is hardcore or sexually suggestive. Technically if you have a "nudes only" site you shouldn't even have to provide the info as thier is no law against displaying models under 18 in "nude" photo's anyway so the point of having 2257 would be moot. am I wrong on this?

                                                                                            As for Ibill. Im in the process of getting everything away from them. Sales have dropped, Getting issues resolved is a joke. They now provide less services then they did before the visa regs were brought into play and yet they now charge a higher rate for less services. plus chargeback fees now to boot. Ive even been contacted by compliance before for having "banned words" in my meta tags. turns out it wasn't even my account or my website. I think no one really knows anything over there. I think Ibills days are limited. They have a promotion to win a corvette and what do they give away? a paid lease. all the money they make there to cheap to give away a real car.

                                                                                            I onced even asked for a rate reduction due to volume and in return I get a letter from compliance telling me Im under review.

                                                                                            They are an aweful company and can kiss my ass!

                                                                                            In my opinion IBILL just sucks. time to move on.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Kimmykim
                                                                                              bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                                                                                              • Jun 2001
                                                                                              • 16015

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by XYCash


                                                                                              yeah....Richard Chapo from adultinternetlaw.com has no clue ...

                                                                                              *ok*

                                                                                              Could be. Aren't you the kid that was trying to argue with my friend 12clicks on ynot the other day?

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Calvinguy
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Oct 2002
                                                                                                • 1752

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by IanUK
                                                                                                Unbelievable !

                                                                                                I just got a reply from iBill
                                                                                                Thats gotta be the quickest ever.

                                                                                                As I'm an EU client I can ignore the email.


                                                                                                Ian
                                                                                                Can you post the original answer?

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • XYCash
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Jun 2003
                                                                                                  • 582

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Kimmykim


                                                                                                  Could be. Aren't you the kid that was trying to argue with my friend 12clicks on ynot the other day?
                                                                                                  Could be. What was he arguing about?
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                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • XYCash
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Jun 2003
                                                                                                    • 582

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Kimmykim


                                                                                                    Could be. Aren't you the kid that was trying to argue with my friend 12clicks on ynot the other day?
                                                                                                    ayup..that was me. Oh..BTW..thanks for the compliment...kid..sheesh *blush* keep em coming.

                                                                                                    -joe
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