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FlyingIguana

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#51

05-21-2003, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Living For Today

in this case joe sixpack is totally correct. people dont kill people. people with guns kill people. i suggest you download "homesick" by pennywise.

if u need i will pull out the current stats as well. if you use the "people kill people and guns dont kill people" excuse......you are basically labelling americans as the worst 1st world society in the world.

ban guns and violent crime rates increase. go look up those stats...
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#52

05-21-2003, 06:43 PM

"Do you think alcohol should be illegal?"

In a perfect society it woudl be illegal, but that will never happen. Once people have something they dont want to get rid of it.

Its kinda hard to compare alcohol to marijuana because on one hand are people having wine in an expensive restaurant, on the other hand is the lush polishing off a bottle of cheap scotch to get their fix.

The only goal of weed is to get stoned off your ass or at least a serious buzz.

Ten years from now people might be saying, 'hey, this cocain shit is pretty good, why the hell is it illegal'.

Alcohol is a big enough prob. We dont need people thinking smoking a joint is no more different than smoking a cigarette.

Ever notice that pretty much everything added to the Constitution after the original was a mistake.
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#53

05-21-2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by dig420

Intoxicants have been used in every culture we've ever uncovered, from the Yanomamo to the Eskimos. There are sociologists who postulate that this universal phenomenon means that human beings, as a species, has a NEED for intoxicants. It's normal and necessary.

So then is murder and a myriad of other things that based upon that logic would be normal and necessary.

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#54

05-21-2003, 06:45 PM

Check it out! Australia's PM actually disagrees with Bush! This is in today's Sydney Morning Herald.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...196648522.html

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#55

05-21-2003, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by rooster
"Do you think alcohol should be illegal?"

In a perfect society it woudl be illegal, but that will never happen. Once people have something they dont want to get rid of it.

Its kinda hard to compare alcohol to marijuana because on one hand are people having wine in an expensive restaurant, on the other hand is the lush polishing off a bottle of cheap scotch to get their fix.

The only goal of weed is to get stoned off your ass or at least a serious buzz.

Ten years from now people might be saying, 'hey, this cocain shit is pretty good, why the hell is it illegal'.

Alcohol is a big enough prob. We dont need people thinking smoking a joint is no more different than smoking a cigarette.

ummmmmmm yeah.. cocaine, pot, same thing

I bet you vote republican
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#56

05-21-2003, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by rooster
http://www.drugwatch.org/Marijuana%2...20medicine.htm

sad. very sad.

The fact that you believe this man is sad. There are several scientific studies which show that this 'doctor' is full of shit.

Like this for example....he is speaking about the harmful side effects of marijuana.
"These include lung disease, cardiac dysfunction, brain damage, genetic damage, immune disorders and psychomotor impairment."

I suppose he is using the study that was done on the monkeys for the brain damage( the one where monkeys were forced to inhale marijuana smoke and nothing else...not even oxygen, so they got brain damage...was a big deal during the reagan administration), but where is he coming up with genetic damage? maybe he should post some studies as well....otherwise it's all bullshit.

Here he is still spouting shit about the dangers of inhaled marijuana smoke as opposed to a pill form.
"This includes toxic effects on the lungs, additional side effects, and the danger of infection from fungus which is often found in marijuana cigarettes."
If it was legal dont you think it would be grown in a safe and controlled environment and therefore we wouldnt have to worry about 'fungus'?
additional side effects? you mean the ones that I actually like? that's harmful I guess.

When speaking about altnernative medication he promotes the use of drugs which he himself acknowledges to have bad side affects...even if they are mild.
"These medications have proven to be safe and effective for both adults and children and generally have only mild side effects."
Name a bad side affect of marijuana. Sure, if you inhale it then you are damaging your lungs, but that's your choice not his.
But what about the people who make butter out of it and eat some nice SAFE brownies?????

Honestly, this whole issue gets on my nerves. The fact that the blind remain blind and are making the rules that those of us who can see have to live by is pathetic.
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#57

05-21-2003, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by dig420

you said it about four posts above. you're an alcoholic, which is only marginally better than being a speed freak.

Danny boy use the quote feature to show me where I said that pot should be illegal. I am not an alcoholic, have never been an alcoholic and it is physically not possible for me to become an alcoholic.

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#58

05-21-2003, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by theking

So then is murder and a myriad of other things that based upon that logic would be normal and necessary.

You aren't using logic at all. Murder is an act committed on another person. Pot is something you smoke on your own. America is supposed to be "free".

As long as you believe beer, tobacco, SUV's, guns, and movies, games, music, and TV should be illegal too, then you aren't being hypocritical.

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#59

05-21-2003, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by theking

Danny boy use the quote feature to show me where I said that pot should be illegal. I am not an alcoholic, have never been an alcoholic and it is physically not possible for me to become an alcoholic.

you mean if you wear a backbrace you can swill beer all day every day and not be an alcoholic? are there any studies on that??
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#60

05-21-2003, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by rooster
"Do you think alcohol should be illegal?"

In a perfect society it woudl be illegal, but that will never happen. Once people have something they dont want to get rid of it.

Its kinda hard to compare alcohol to marijuana because on one hand are people having wine in an expensive restaurant, on the other hand is the lush polishing off a bottle of cheap scotch to get their fix.

The only goal of weed is to get stoned off your ass or at least a serious buzz.

Ten years from now people might be saying, 'hey, this cocain shit is pretty good, why the hell is it illegal'.

Alcohol is a big enough prob. We dont need people thinking smoking a joint is no more different than smoking a cigarette.

What does someone having wine in an expensive restaurant have to do with anything?

Someone just wants to smoke a joint while they're bedridden with cancer.

What's the difference?

Who cares anyways if the only point of pot is to get a serious buzz? I sure as shit don't care what people do at home. Sit around in your living room in your undies and smoke pot til you die for all I care.

Pot should be treated EXACTLY like alcohol. 21 age limit, established places to smoke (like bars) that require a fairly rigid licensing process, the ability to sit in your house and get as big a buzz as you want, and punishment for smoking then doing something that endangers others (smoking and driving).

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#61

05-21-2003, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

You aren't using logic at all. Murder is an act committed on another person. Pot is something you smoke on your own. America is supposed to be "free".

As long as you believe beer, tobacco, SUV's, guns, and movies, games, music, and TV should be illegal too, then you aren't being hypocritical.

My rebuttal logic is perfectly logical. People under the influence of mind altering drugs, including MJ and alcohol commit homicide-suicide-and manslaugter or cause accidental injury to themselves and others.

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#62

05-21-2003, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by theking

Danny boy use the quote feature to show me where I said that pot should be illegal. I am not an alcoholic, have never been an alcoholic and it is physically not possible for me to become an alcoholic.

Okay. You implied that you thought it should be, so I will just ask.

Do you think pot should be illegal or legal?

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#63

05-21-2003, 06:56 PM

found data for 1999. australia has the highest rate of violent crime per citizen among industrialised nations
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#64

05-21-2003, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by dig420

you mean if you wear a backbrace you can swill beer all day every day and not be an alcoholic? are there any studies on that??

Study the subject of physical addiction to alcohol Danny boy you may learn something...but in your case probably not.

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#65

05-21-2003, 06:58 PM

<a href=http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3381>Marijuana Decriminilization Talking Points</a>

TALKING POINT #1:
Decriminalizing marijuana frees up police resources to deal with more serious crimes.

TALKING POINT #2:
Far more harm is caused by the criminal prohibition of marijuana than by the use of marijuana itself.

TALKING POINT #3:
Decriminalization does not lead to greater marijuana use.

TALKING POINT #4:
Criminal laws prohibiting marijuana possession do not deter marijuana use.

educate yourself.

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#66

05-21-2003, 07:00 PM

'60,000 individuals are behind bars for marijuana offenses at a cost to taxpayers of $1.2 billion per year.
REFERENCE: Marijuana Arrests and Incarceration in the United States. 1999. The Federation of American Scientists' Drug Policy Analysis Bulletin.

Taxpayers annually spend between $7.5 billion and $10 billion arresting and prosecuting individuals for marijuana violations. Almost 90 percent of these arrests are for marijuana possession only. '

we're doin time to buy new prisons.

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#67

05-21-2003, 07:00 PM

talking points from a pro pot ogranization. Those types of groups push the medical aspect of marijuana so hard to attempt to make it more legitimate.

Ever notice that pretty much everything added to the Constitution after the original was a mistake.
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#68

05-21-2003, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by theking

Study the subject of physical addiction to alcohol Danny boy you may learn something...but in your case probably not.

so what makes you immune to being an alcoholic? how can you sit in that chair all day in your mothers house sweating behing that backbrace and drinking beer all day and not be an alcoholic?

are you Superman??
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#69

05-21-2003, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by rooster
talking points from a pro pot ogranization. Those types of groups push the medical aspect of marijuana so hard to attempt to make it more legitimate.

You seriously think throwing a guy who smokes 2 joints at home in jail is a worthwhile way to spend tax money on law enforcement, the court system, and the prison system?

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#70

05-21-2003, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by rooster
"Do you think alcohol should be illegal?"

In a perfect society it woudl be illegal

oh my gawd, you know what the perfect society would be like?????
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#71

05-21-2003, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by FATPad
Okay. You implied that you thought it should be, so I will just ask.

Do you think pot should be illegal or legal?

In a perfect society, as has already been mentioned in another post, the use of mind altering drugs would not be legal. As to pot...no I do not think that it should be legalized, but I do think that the use of pot should be de-criminalized.

Last edited by theking; 05-21-2003, 07:09 PM.

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#72

05-21-2003, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by BigFrog

oh my gawd, you know what the perfect society would be like?????

a new kind of bomb that kills every male on the planet except me. it would be great
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#73

05-21-2003, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by rooster
We dont need people thinking smoking a joint is no more different than smoking a cigarette.

how is it different?
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#74

05-21-2003, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by theking

In a perfect society, as has already been mentioned n another post,the use of mind altering drugs would not be legal. As to pot...no I do not think that it should be legalized, but I do think that the use of pot should be de-criminalized.

a perfect society doesn't need laws. In your perfect society, would they outlaw 'bad thinking' as well as drugs?
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#75

05-21-2003, 07:06 PM

Just one more example how this administration favors big business over its people.

Drug companies lobby to keep marijuana illegal because it threatens their multi billion dollar a year synthetics and anything natural cannot be patented (ever wonder why aspirin is so cheap?).

Lumber companies fight to keep marijuana illegal because hemp is a better alternative to making paper compared to trees.

Companies are making billions a year incarcerating people because of drug violations.

Add this in with the companies that make millions off of court ordered drug counseling, government forfeitures, fines, and the government using drug laws as an excuse to violate rights its no wonder pot is illegal.
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#76

05-21-2003, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by dig420

a new kind of bomb that kills every male on the planet except me. it would be great

bastard!!
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#77

05-21-2003, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by dig420

so what makes you immune to being an alcoholic? how can you sit in that chair all day in your mothers house sweating behing that backbrace and drinking beer all day and not be an alcoholic?

are you Superman??

You can study the subject of alcohol addiction yourself Danny boy. I am not going to take the time to educate you. I will just repeat that it is not physically possible for me to become physically addicted to alchohol...but then again this applies to most people so...no I am not superman.

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#78

05-21-2003, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by rooster
talking points from a pro pot ogranization. Those types of groups push the medical aspect of marijuana so hard to attempt to make it more legitimate.

"These types of groups" keep putting out talking points, against government talking points and propaganda.

Do you find it worse that a government is trying to use talking points to oppress pot smokers or that some pot smokers are trying to use talking points to be free from government interfere in their own personal business?

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#79

05-21-2003, 07:14 PM

I don't understand this "perfect society" stuff that keeps coming up.

In a perfect society you should be able to do whatever the hell you want to yourself in the confines of your own home as long as you don't harm anyone else.

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#80

05-21-2003, 07:17 PM

And in any society, spending billions of dollars a year to arrest, try, and imprison Joe Pot Smoker while Joe Dumb Drunk gets to stumble down to the bar and get loaded up is aninine.

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#81

05-21-2003, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by FATPad
I don't understand this "perfect society" stuff that keeps coming up.

In a perfect society you should be able to do whatever the hell you want to yourself in the confines of your own home as long as you don't harm anyone else.

A number of things that one does in the privacy of ones home while not being legal, for all practical puposes the legality is immaterial. Not many people get busted for doing things that are not legal in the privacy of their own homes. It is for being fools outside the privacy of their own homes that gets them busted.

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#82

05-21-2003, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by FATPad
And in any society, spending billions of dollars a year to arrest, try, and imprison Joe Pot Smoker while Joe Dumb Drunk gets to stumble down to the bar and get loaded up is aninine.

There may very well be more people in jail for public intoxication than any other crime. It is against the law to be drunk and drunks are busted in mass.

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#83

05-21-2003, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by theking

People under the influence of mind altering drugs, including MJ and alcohol commit homicide-suicide-and manslaugter or cause accidental injury to themselves and others.

are you telling us that you've killed someone?

because to be honest, I've been smoking mary jane almost daily for 9 years, and have yet to commit a crime other than the fact that i smoke marijuana.
oh, and i havent harmed myself or others at all in those 9 years in case you are worried
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#84

05-21-2003, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by BigFrog

are you telling us that you've killed someone?

because to be honest, I've been smoking mary jane almost daily for 9 years, and have yet to commit a crime other than the fact that i smoke marijuana.
oh, and i havent harmed myself or others at all in those 9 years in case you are worried

Good for you but crime stats show...the majority of crime is committed while "under the influence"...as are many accidents...be it drug or alcohol related.

Last edited by theking; 05-21-2003, 07:46 PM.

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#85

05-21-2003, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by FATPad
And in any society, spending billions of dollars a year to arrest, try, and imprison Joe Pot Smoker while Joe Dumb Drunk gets to stumble down to the bar and get loaded up is aninine.

While alcohol is a legal drug...its sale, use, and possession is highly regulated by many laws.

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#86

05-21-2003, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by theking

While alcohol is a legal drug...its sale, use, and possession is highly regulated by many laws.

Keep in mind, it too is not legal EVERYWHERE in the US.

Tried to grow tobacco lately? It's almost as illegal as pot.

They simply want control of certain industries at all costs.

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#87

05-21-2003, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by theking

Good for you but crime stats show...the majority of crime is committed while "under the influence"...as are many accidents...be it drug or alcohol related.

you didnt answer my question.

on a side note...
when those government propoganda commercials on tv state that a certain percentage of people pulled over by the police tested positive for marijuana....and then they say it's more harmful than we all thought.....do you believe them?
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#88

05-21-2003, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by BigFrog

you didnt answer my question.

on a side note...
when those government propoganda commercials on tv state that a certain percentage of people pulled over by the police tested positive for marijuana....and then they say it's more harmful than we all thought.....do you believe them?

Yes...I have legally killed someone.

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#89

05-21-2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by BigFrog

you didnt answer my question.

on a side note...
when those government propoganda commercials on tv state that a certain percentage of people pulled over by the police tested positive for marijuana....and then they say it's more harmful than we all thought.....do you believe them?

I cannot recall seeing a commercial like the one you have described. I do pay attention and believe the FBI crime stats that are published every year.

Last edited by theking; 05-21-2003, 08:06 PM.

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#90

05-21-2003, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by theking

While alcohol is a legal drug...its sale, use, and possession is highly regulated by many laws.

Umm....okay.

Thanks for the info?

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#91

05-21-2003, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by theking

I cannot recall seeing a commercial like the one you have described. I do pay attention and believe the FBI crime stats that are published every year.

it's on tv....they are on tv all the fricking time.

ok....statistics..... so do they state how many people commited crimes while under the influence of marijuana?
and how do they tell that someone is under that influence?
drug test?

also, just making up numbers here....
if 70% of the people that commit crimes are under the influence of some drug, but only 20% of the people using drugs are commiting crimes, does that mean drugs should be illegal?
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#92

05-21-2003, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by FATPad
Umm....okay.

Thanks for the info?

You are welcome. You indicated that pot users go to jail and alcohol users do not...while there are probably more people that go to jail for the use of the legal drug...alcohol.

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#93

05-21-2003, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by BigFrog

it's on tv....they are on tv all the fricking time.

ok....statistics..... so do they state how many people commited crimes while under the influence of marijuana?
and how do they tell that someone is under that influence?
drug test?

also, just making up numbers here....
if 70% of the people that commit crimes are under the influence of some drug, but only 20% of the people using drugs are commiting crimes, does that mean drugs should be illegal?

Re-read my posts...and do your own research on crime stats.

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#94

05-21-2003, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by rooster
talking points from a pro pot ogranization. Those types of groups push the medical aspect of marijuana so hard to attempt to make it more legitimate.

I posted this earlier, as if any of the dumbasses around here could or would read it, even if they did COULD they comprehend it?

This was written by your own government not some pro-pot org.

<a href=http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm><The Report of the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse
Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding
Commissioned by President Richard M. Nixon, March, 1972</a>

read you fools.

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FATPad

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#95

05-21-2003, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by theking

You are welcome. You indicated that pot users go to jail and alcohol users do not...while there are probably more people that go to jail for the use of the legal drug...alcohol.

Alcohol users do not go to jail simply for posessing their alcohol, nor do they have to worry about the cops arresting them simply for consuming their alcohol in their own homes.

Your points are all irrelevant. It's obvious that misuse of alcohol lands you in jail. Your stunning grasp of the obvious is simply astounding.

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BigFrog

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#96

05-21-2003, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by theking

Re-read my posts...and do your own research on crime stats.

i have. and?
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Fletch XXX

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#97

05-21-2003, 08:25 PM

'March 22nd marks the 30th anniversary of the release of the report of the so-called "Shafer Commission" -- the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse -- whose members were appointed by then-President Richard Nixon. The Shafer Commission's (named after commission Chair, Gov. Raymond Shafer of Pennsylvania) 1972 report, entitled "Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding," boldly proclaimed that "neither the marihuana user nor the drug itself can be said to constitute a danger to public safety" and recommended Congress and state legislatures decriminalize the use and casual distribution of marijuana for personal use.'

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theking

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#98

05-21-2003, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by FATPad
Alcohol users do not go to jail simply for posessing their alcohol, nor do they have to worry about the cops arresting them simply for consuming their alcohol in their own homes.

Your points are all irrelevant. It's obvious that misuse of alcohol lands you in jail. Your stunning grasp of the obvious is simply astounding.

There are instances where you can be arrested for possession of alchohol or even the possession of an empty alcohol container. I do not know of many instances that pot users are arrested in the privacy of their homes for simply using pot, though I can understand their paranoia. Most people are not ever busted for doing something illegal within the privacy of their own homes.

Last edited by theking; 05-21-2003, 08:59 PM.

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theking

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#99

05-21-2003, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by BigFrog

i have. and?

Good...you now have your answers.

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theking

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#100

05-21-2003, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
'March 22nd marks the 30th anniversary of the release of the report of the so-called "Shafer Commission" -- the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse -- whose members were appointed by then-President Richard Nixon. The Shafer Commission's (named after commission Chair, Gov. Raymond Shafer of Pennsylvania) 1972 report, entitled "Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding," boldly proclaimed that "neither the marihuana user nor the drug itself can be said to constitute a danger to public safety" and recommended Congress and state legislatures decriminalize the use and casual distribution of marijuana for personal use.'

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5049

I agree...as I have previously stated...the use of MJ should be de-criminalized...but its sale, use and possession should be regulated much like alcohol is.

When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

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