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ServerGenius

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#51

05-17-2003, 04:14 AM

Why on earth go through all this trouble. Let's face it Credit cards
were not made for internet transactions and they will never be
really suitable for internet transactions. Just do like any other
business.... calculate your percentage of Chargebacks, calculate
that percentage in the price of your product and just consider
them as loss/theft.

It's not worth the effort and money to go after it. If people
complain and you feel it's not valid, send them a refund, blacklist
their card and move on. Sooner or later there will be a payment
system that is suitable for internet transactions allthough it might
take a while before it's commonly accepted and used by consumers.

The sooner the creditcard companies really stop accepting online
payments for adult transactions the sooner a new payment
system will becoma available and accepted. People want porn
and when they can't get it with their credit card they will switch
to whatever system is available. Right now they don't have to
because CC still works.

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gothweb

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#52

05-17-2003, 04:25 AM

Someone signed up using this credit card. That person used the site for a few days, then cancelled. They said they were satisfied, when they cancelled.

The owner of the card then charged back. The question is whether the owner of the card is the same person who signed up, and said they were satisfied.

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stocktrader23

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#53

05-17-2003, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by DynaSpain
Why on earth go through all this trouble. Let's face it Credit cards
were not made for internet transactions and they will never be
really suitable for internet transactions. Just do like any other
business.... calculate your percentage of Chargebacks, calculate
that percentage in the price of your product and just consider
them as loss/theft.

It's not worth the effort and money to go after it. If people
complain and you feel it's not valid, send them a refund, blacklist
their card and move on. Sooner or later there will be a payment
system that is suitable for internet transactions allthough it might
take a while before it's commonly accepted and used by consumers.

The sooner the creditcard companies really stop accepting online
payments for adult transactions the sooner a new payment
system will becoma available and accepted. People want porn
and when they can't get it with their credit card they will switch
to whatever system is available. Right now they don't have to
because CC still works.

DynaMite

Oh and FIDDY!

How is turning your accounts over to someone else to collect costing you time and money? I have never let anyone fuck me over on the internet and don't plan to start now. I used to sell large amounts of items on ebay and I went after EVERY non payer, chargeback, bounced check, etc. This took hardly any time and I collected the majority of the time along with fees I incurred because of them.

Why in the hell anyone would roll over and let people fuck them left and right is beyond me. If everyone had your attitude about it the fraud would be much worse than it is now.

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ServerGenius

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#54

05-17-2003, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by stocktrader23

How is turning your accounts over to someone else to collect costing you time and money? I have never let anyone fuck me over on the internet and don't plan to start now. I used to sell large amounts of items on ebay and I went after EVERY non payer, chargeback, bounced check, etc. This took hardly any time and I collected the majority of the time along with fees I incurred because of them.

Why in the hell anyone would roll over and let people fuck them left and right is beyond me. If everyone had your attitude about it the fraud would be much worse than it is now.

I was referring to pornsite membership not actual goods that you
sent to people. Goodluck finding bill collectors that will bug the
villain that stole $19.59 from you. Especially if the villain lives in
another country.

Supermarkets don't go after each shoplifter either only when they
catch him while stealing. It's a calculated loss which they add to
price of their products the people who pay carry this loss.

It's not a matter of givin in and rolling over. Of course it sucks but
the fact remains there is little nothing you can do about this stuff
so don't make it more costly by spending time writing letters/email
or spending money on lawyers or whatever on it. Calculate the
costs based on history, factor it in your retail price and move on.

DynaMite

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Dianna Vesta

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#55

05-17-2003, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by BVF
I was checking out the CCbill new fangled stats system and I see this chargeback:

Credit card (Visa - BIN#425436)

$19.95 for 00030 days followed by $19.95 every 30 days.

Member Since: 2003-03-15
Cancel Date: 2003-03-23
Expires: Expired
Cancel Reason: Satisfied Customer

Now the man admitted that he was a satisfied customer yet he STILL charged back....This is some bullshit...

DV: Interesting turn of the table, right?

For years webmasters (not all but many) ripped off the member and now there?s a bunch of them ripping off the industry. They know the game all too well. They know that if they call CCBill they?ll get a refund or they?ll just chargeback, no questions asked.

The key is to have a site they want to return to and making sure you scrub out idiots, which CCBill does? maybe too much. You have people locked out who might have had good reasons to chargeback.

CCBill has a great interface, especially with System5, however the support still sucks.

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Dianna Vesta

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#56

05-17-2003, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by gothweb
Someone signed up using this credit card. That person used the site for a few days, then cancelled. They said they were satisfied, when they cancelled.

The owner of the card then charged back. The question is whether the owner of the card is the same person who signed up, and said they were satisfied.

DV: A very good point.

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HairToStay

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#57

05-17-2003, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by VirtuMike
To top all that off there's probably a clause in your merchant agreement (or ccbill's) that says that Visa's decision is final, binding, and unappealable..

Actually, each card processor handled it differently.

CSI allows you to dispute a chargeback, however, if it is ruled against you, you sign and agree to pay them a minimum of $400 (it may have increased).

Without a signature, you can't fight Visa/Mastercard. Amex listens to the merchant if you're persistant

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ServerGenius

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#58

05-17-2003, 06:18 AM

Originally posted by HairToStay

Actually, each card processor handled it differently.

CSI allows you to dispute a chargeback, however, if it is ruled against you, you sign and agree to pay them a minimum of $400 (it may have increased).

Without a signature, you can't fight Visa/Mastercard. Amex listens to the merchant if you're persistant

Amex doesn't process ANY adult at all.....so they will listen and
terminate you inmediately.

DynaMite

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DjSap

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#59

05-17-2003, 06:18 AM

Whenever I join a site to check out if it's worth promoting I always cancel the membership with this reason:

Downloaded all your movies and pictures so from now on I will be viewing them from the hard drive.

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Toker

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#60

05-17-2003, 06:22 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dianna Vesta
[B]

DV: Interesting turn of the table, right?

For years webmasters (not all but many) ripped off the member and now there?s a bunch of them ripping off the industry. They know the game all too well. They know that if they call CCBill they?ll get a refund or they?ll just chargeback, no questions asked.

The key is to have a site they want to return to and making sure you scrub out idiots, which CCBill does? maybe too much. You have people locked out who might have had good reasons to chargeback.

CCBill has a great interface, especially with System5, however the support still sucks.

You must have been sniffing glue!!!
I've been using CCBILL for close to 6 years and they have the best support on the net! I can call them anytime 24/7 and they
get the call right away with NO waiting..
They've FTPed into my box and done things for me, and are some of the friendliest people in the Bizzzzzzzzzzzz..

They might have their downfalls but support isn't one of them
Nuff said!

Last edited by Toker; 05-17-2003, 06:24 AM.

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cherrylula

lol

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#61

05-17-2003, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by psyko514

why isn't it against the law? prove that the guy who owns the credit card is the one that signed up and surfed the site.

have you seen the slew of people getting busted for internet fraud in the news? People selling fake things on ebay, etc....

If motherfucking ebay can find a scammer and prove what they did, why can't adult webmasters figure out a way to go after assholes who chargeback fraudulently? Yeah its only $20 in this case, but I wonder how many webmasters get ripped by the same surfers again and again...?

Have you ever ordered a free magazine subscription through the mail, and received one copy but never paid them? And the next thing you know you are getting collection notices for like $30 bucks for some fucking Architectural Digest subscription you forgot about?

http://www.detnews.com/2003/technolo...ogy-166719.htm

Its only a matter of time.... the net is tightening up and eventually even scamming porn surfers will get their spankings too.
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cherrylula

lol

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#62

05-17-2003, 06:50 AM

one more quick rant speaking of bullshit chargebacks hehe...

Ever heard about ifriends live show chargebacks? I know of girls who had done hour or more long shows only to be slapped with a big deduction in their paychecks days later because the guy charged back. Talking several hundred dollars here. And how is it that the viewers get away with that?

anyhow with all the shit lately with visa/mc this topic just really irritates me.
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HairToStay

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#63

05-17-2003, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by cherrylula

If motherfucking ebay can find a scammer and prove what they did, why can't adult webmasters figure out a way to go after assholes who chargeback fraudulently? Yeah its only $20 in this case, but I wonder how many webmasters get ripped by the same surfers again and again...?

I've been saying this for 6+ years, we need an Internet Adult Webmaster Merchant database. I currently belong to a few anti-fraud groups that share chargeback/fraudulent transaction information so we can block their IPs, etc. But, they're not adult related, and we in the industry have a different level of clientele.

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psyko514

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#64

05-17-2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by cherrylula
have you seen the slew of people getting busted for internet fraud in the news? People selling fake things on ebay, etc....

If motherfucking ebay can find a scammer and prove what they did, why can't adult webmasters figure out a way to go after assholes who chargeback fraudulently? Yeah its only $20 in this case, but I wonder how many webmasters get ripped by the same surfers again and again...?

Did you read the whole thread?
I repeat it again: You cannot prove that the guy who signed up for your site and surfed your site is the same guy who owns the credit card.

The only way to get that information is to subpoena his ISP and get them to release that information. And no court will issue you a subpoena for an amount of $20.

eBay catching a scammer is a lot different then proving that the guy charging back is the guy who signed up. Think about it for two seconds.

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psyko514

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#65

05-17-2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by gothweb
Someone signed up using this credit card. That person used the site for a few days, then cancelled. They said they were satisfied, when they cancelled.

The owner of the card then charged back. The question is whether the owner of the card is the same person who signed up, and said they were satisfied.

If only everyone here had half the smarts you have.

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cherrylula

lol

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#66

05-17-2003, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by psyko514
eBay catching a scammer is a lot different then proving that the guy charging back is the guy who signed up. Think about it for two seconds.

yeah, well...

Originally posted by HairToStay

we need an Internet Adult Webmaster Merchant database. I currently belong to a few anti-fraud groups that share chargeback/fraudulent transaction information so we can block their IPs, etc. But, they're not adult related, and we in the industry have a different level of clientele.
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AllisonWonderland

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#67

05-17-2003, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by psyko514

Did you read the whole thread?
I repeat it again: You cannot prove that the guy who signed up for your site and surfed your site is the same guy who owns the credit card.

So when Joe Assblow calls and says that his doofus son used his card, or that he never made the charge, that it's fraud, is the card automatically cancelled so the thieving son and thieving stranger can't use it again?
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psyko514

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#68

05-17-2003, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by AllisonWonderland

So when Joe Assblow calls and says that his doofus son used his card, or that he never made the charge, that it's fraud, is the card automatically cancelled so the thieving son and thieving stranger can't use it again?

If he calls his bank and says his son did it, the bank says "Well, that's your responsibility. Keep it away from him in the future". We don't dispute charges if we know who did them. Joe Assblow has to deal with his son directly and press charges if need be.

If he calls his bank and says the charge isn't his, a chargeback is done. The card is not automatically cancelled because an unrecognized charge does not mean it's fraud.

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