50 BIATCH!
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oh geesh did I hit a touchy feely spot?
We are all guilty of exploiting talent.
Be as nice as you want to the girls, I still know for a fact that if you explained exactly where all their pictures might go before you shoot them, and the fact that they will be immortalized and never again see a penny from their pics splattered all over, you'd have a lot less willing talent. A couple hundred bucks more really isn't the issue.
I have probably heard more girls complain about being taken advantage of then you realize. I'm not trying to pick on you, but its just a part of the industry and how it works. To deny that is silly.Comment
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Who shoots the girls at SG, Spooky?
And hey, there's GOTTA be some quality content providers out there that specialize in this type of look, unless I'm sadly mistaken.
JakComment
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Originally posted by AaronM
1: I do not shoot that look in the first place.
2: When a model has a bad experience with one photographer, she may decide that they are all the same and never try another one.
3: FUCK YOU for even suggesting that I would prey on a models weakness.
I have never had anything against you but that comment makes me sick.
The only thing a good photographer ever takes advantage of in a model is (a) her sense of adventure, (b) her sense of rebelliousness. Never take advantage of naivetee or ignorance. A good photographer will answer all of a model's questions honestly and even answer questions the model didn't think to ask. Whenever, for example, a model thinks nobody will find out about her modeling, I tell her "they always do." You fuck models over, you get a bad rep, and soon all the good guys get tarred with the same brush.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Good point. I suppose I've just worked around Hollywood parts too much. Not a lot of "nice" photographers around here. In porn you just tell them how great they look and get them to smile and show as much as possible. But there is a surplus of talent here too.Originally posted by UnseenWorld
The only thing a good photographer ever takes advantage of in a model is (a) her sense of adventure, (b) her sense of rebelliousness. Never take advantage of naivetee or ignorance. A good photographer will answer all of a model's questions honestly and even answer questions the model didn't think to ask. Whenever, for example, a model thinks nobody will find out about her modeling, I tell her "they always do." You fuck models over, you get a bad rep, and soon all the good guys get tarred with the same brush.Comment
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I do FULLY explain it and I believe that Unseen does as well.Originally posted by cherrylula
oh geesh did I hit a touchy feely spot?
We are all guilty of exploiting talent.
Be as nice as you want to the girls, I still know for a fact that if you explained exactly where all their pictures might go before you shoot them, and the fact that they will be immortalized and never again see a penny from their pics splattered all over, you'd have a lot less willing talent. A couple hundred bucks more really isn't the issue.
I have probably heard more girls complain about being taken advantage of then you realize. I'm not trying to pick on you, but its just a part of the industry and how it works. To deny that is silly.Comment
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I explain as fully as I can. For example, I realized after a while that when I say I'm a "content provider" this is industry jargon, so now I tell them "I sell my photos to other websites."Originally posted by cherrylula
oh geesh did I hit a touchy feely spot?
We are all guilty of exploiting talent.
Be as nice as you want to the girls, I still know for a fact that if you explained exactly where all their pictures might go before you shoot them, and the fact that they will be immortalized and never again see a penny from their pics splattered all over, you'd have a lot less willing talent. A couple hundred bucks more really isn't the issue.
I have probably heard more girls complain about being taken advantage of then you realize. I'm not trying to pick on you, but its just a part of the industry and how it works. To deny that is silly.
Your point is kind of beside the point, we'd all be paralyzed if we thought about every possible disadvantage to everything we do. All we can do is be honest. The law says an 18 year old girl is old enough to make her own decisions, it disrespects her as a person to treat her like a child when she knows she's legally an adult.
I know sometimes models feel bad about their decisions. Hell, I had a Nehru jacket in my closet once, and maybe I should have majored in business instead of philosophy in college. However, young people don't want other people telling them how to live or what decisions to make and to do otherwise disrespects them. I'm 56 now, but I can still remember that about being young.
Unfortunately, when a decision (that I could have or did warn them about) bites them, frequently then they don't want to take responsibility for the decision THEY made, and all of a sudden it's the nasty photographer who didn't tell them he actually is in business to make money by selling her photos to places where people will see them.
You can explain to some girls till you are blue in the face about where the pictures go, that they will be around the rest of their lives, that actually more copies will be made of them over time and they will proliferate, but not all of the girls want to hear that, and a good deal of the rest don't listen, and as for the rest, they take it all in and make a calculated decision.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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To add on to this...Originally posted by AaronM
I do FULLY explain it and I believe that Unseen does as well.
One of the models that I have been working with on a regular basis went home for Thanksgiving. She told her mother what she is doing because I specifically told her that her parents would find out anyway and that she would need to be prepared for that.Comment
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I agree with this. They have blog gravity, music scene gravity, and art gravity.Originally posted by cherrylula
what you have to realize, is its not just that the girls are forced to write journals, and the ones who do for the most part are not faking them. A lot of the girls who pose do it cause they enjoy it, and yet they don't really want to become porn stars, or traditional internet talent.
Suicide Girls always has booths at concerts, and outdoor festivals. They get the girls to show up and do all sorts of promotions. If it was just a straight up porn site, pink and all, they could not get away with that.
I know people who meet up and network/socialize with others through SG. I even have 20 year old sister (who did not pose fyi) who joined SG, and knows a bunch of the chicks who post over there. Had it been a frickin porn site, she would not have joined.
They have created an internet environment where the girls feel comfortable and therefore the site flourishes. Its NOT a traditional porn site.
If SG started pimping out their girls and content more, and became a traditional porn site, it would lose its edge in a heartbeat.
The sleazy wannabe casting agents imported from Idaho thing is maybe to be expected with Playboyesque glamour fanfare going on, but sounds fatal to their particular reputation. Sounds like it's having bad side effects all around.the sound of one hand googlewhackingComment
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dont mind cherrylula.. she is drinking again.. its after 12pm now.. time to hit the bottle eh cherry?
lolA fast fortune is easy to earn! Just go with a winner!Comment
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just because I feel like posting does not mean I am drunk :PComment
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Why not?Originally posted by cherrylula
just because I feel like posting does not mean I am drunk :P
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I'm not gonna argue anything, not here to bash anyone.
I only speak from experience because I worked with talent for a big porn company in LA a couple years ago. It was really horrible, the way they took advantage of the talent. They all signed release forms, so it didn't really matter.Comment
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The people at SG are dipshits. For example, I wanted to swap model information like I do with Aaron (we have different customer lists for the most part, and where they do overlap, apparently our customers don't care that much), but first of all they didn't even REPLY to e-mails for several months, which was rude, and when they finally did, they made the nonsensical observation that they didn't want to work with me because they saw me as "competition." That shows a lot of ignorance about how the industry works. This is an industry where competitors cooperate (send each other exit traffic, join each other's partnership programs, etc.). I almost fell out of my chair when I read that. I think they're only successful because they got into an untapped market early and they got their 15 minutes of fame on a couple TV shows. However, one lesson I think they learned from the TV exposure was about crap traffic.
While the occasional SG girl will have something nice to say about them, most of the ones I've talked to felt the site was oversold, that the back end money from keeping their journals, call-back shoots, etc., just never panned out the way it was painted. Plus, the girls don't like the idea that SG wants them to work exclusively for them. (Most of the girls ignore this, though, and I get calls from SG girls regularly.)SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Well I know I once signed a confidentiality agreement myself (as an employee).
Sharing models isn't exactly something everyone feels like doing.Comment
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Jak, I do phone interviews with a lot of girls who are of the SG type, but since there is a limited general market for them, I frequently have to turn them away. However, if I thought the photos were more or less "pre-sold," it might be different. Think about exclusive work, or at least pre-ordering non-exclusive sets based on a few less artistic "test" shots so you can see what they look like beforehand. My ICQ is 48201505.Originally posted by Jak
Looking for hot goth\tat\piercing\punk\club chick content.
Stuf like www.suicidegirls.com, http://www.hypnox.com, etc.
List them here.
JakSIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Got some shots I could take a look at? Stuff with a lot of tats, piercings, etc.Originally posted by UnseenWorld
I get calls from SG girls regularly.
JakComment
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welp, they have some fine bitches, and I need some nice fresh piercing content.. clit eye lip tits whatever.Originally posted by UnseenWorld
The people at SG are dipshits. For example, I wanted to swap model information like I do with Aaron (we have different customer lists for the most part, and where they do overlap, apparently our customers don't care that much), but first of all they didn't even REPLY to e-mails for several months, which was rude, and when they finally did, they made the nonsensical observation that they didn't want to work with me because they saw me as "competition." That shows a lot of ignorance about how the industry works. This is an industry where competitors cooperate (send each other exit traffic, join each other's partnership programs, etc.). I almost fell out of my chair when I read that. I think they're only successful because they got into an untapped market early and they got their 15 minutes of fame on a couple TV shows. However, one lesson I think they learned from the TV exposure was about crap traffic.
While the occasional SG girl will have something nice to say about them, most of the ones I've talked to felt the site was oversold, that the back end money from keeping their journals, call-back shoots, etc., just never panned out the way it was painted. Plus, the girls don't like the idea that SG wants them to work exclusively for them. (Most of the girls ignore this, though, and I get calls from SG girls regularly.)
so hit me up if you can get some of it, cause those girls will sell dirt to an arab.A fast fortune is easy to earn! Just go with a winner!Comment
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This is silly. Really silly.Originally posted by UnseenWorld
The people at SG are dipshits. For example, I wanted to swap model information like I do with Aaron (we have different customer lists for the most part, and where they do overlap, apparently our customers don't care that much), but first of all they didn't even REPLY to e-mails for several months, which was rude, and when they finally did, they made the nonsensical observation that they didn't want to work with me because they saw me as "competition." That shows a lot of ignorance about how the industry works. This is an industry where competitors cooperate (send each other exit traffic, join each other's partnership programs, etc.). I almost fell out of my chair when I read that. I think they're only successful because they got into an untapped market early and they got their 15 minutes of fame on a couple TV shows. However, one lesson I think they learned from the TV exposure was about crap traffic.
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Ive seen girls cry after being begged and harrassed to upgrade from 'girl girl' to 'interracial anal'.
I have seen girls get dropped off on 'Desoto St. in 'Chatsworth, California' and do movies and never return because they had no clue what they were in for. 18 year olds crying calling their friend to come pick them up. After doing their first Jim Holiday flick.
I have personally seen Cherry comfort crying girls for over an hour after doing movies/shoots etc... Girls who come to California and go right to Chatsworth to shoot porn, I am certain you've been there.
Aaron from your posts awhile back mentioning this.... youve been in this industry a little over a year. Cherry dealt with porn talent for 5 + years man, the least she can have is an opinion.
Last edited by Fletch XXX; 12-15-2002, 11:32 AM.
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lol I posted right when you did.Originally posted by UnseenWorld
Jak, I do phone interviews with a lot of girls who are of the SG type, but since there is a limited general market for them, I frequently have to turn them away. However, if I thought the photos were more or less "pre-sold," it might be different. Think about exclusive work, or at least pre-ordering non-exclusive sets based on a few less artistic "test" shots so you can see what they look like beforehand. My ICQ is 48201505.
I'm just getting some ideas together right now for a new site. It will be a bit before I jump in because of some other projects in the works, but when I do I'd like to know where I can go to for this type of content.
I'll put you into the list.
JakLast edited by Jak; 12-15-2002, 11:29 AM.Comment
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Wrong. I have been shooting since 1991. I have been selling online full time for a year.Originally posted by Fletch XXX
Aaron from your posts awhile back mentioning this.... youve been in this industry a little over a year. Cherry dealt with porn talent for 5 + years man, the least she can have is an opinion.
She can have her opinion but that does not make my opinion wrong nor does it give her the right to insult me.Last edited by AaronM; 12-15-2002, 11:31 AM.Comment
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Well, gee, I remember the girl who had SG tatted on her lower tummy 'cause she thought it was so cool, but all she ever got was one $150 photo session out of them along with the exhortation not to work with the competition (other photographers in town). She was pissed that all she got was $150 and then she heard they went on a big expensive European vacation.Originally posted by cherrylula
I know a few girls who have been involved with the SG thing. I have yet to hear a complaint but from what I have seen, the girls pose and participate because they like the site and they like the community thing, not for the few bucks they get. Its rather brilliant imo.
I'm as honest as I can be. I don't promise the girl any more shoots than the one we are doing, even though I frequently call good models back for several additional shoots. I have told models on several occasions, "If you have any photographic talent at all, try making content. The real money is behind the camera, not in front of it." How much more honest can I be?SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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I dont see why you are justifying anything at all. If it were not for you guys.. we would all be begging our girlfriends, wives, sisters, and cousins to pose infront of our polaroidsOriginally posted by UnseenWorld
Well, gee, I remember the girl who had SG tatted on her lower tummy 'cause she thought it was so cool, but all she ever got was one $150 photo session out of them along with the exhortation not to work with the competition (other photographers in town). She was pissed that all she got was $150 and then she heard they went on a big expensive European vacation.
I'm as honest as I can be. I don't promise the girl any more shoots than the one we are doing, even though I frequently call good models back for several additional shoots. I have told models on several occasions, "If you have any photographic talent at all, try making content. The real money is behind the camera, not in front of it." How much more honest can I be?
A fast fortune is easy to earn! Just go with a winner!Comment
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Oh please do you know how many young girls get tattoos and regret it? I still don't really think SG is doing anything wrong.
Any girl with photographic qualities should get her own site, period. And not pose for others. THAT is where the money is.
Good thing they don't so we can all buy content and make money with them.Last edited by cherrylula; 12-15-2002, 11:40 AM.Comment
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Anyone who lets one line followed by a winky get them this upset has issues.
Anyone who gets a tattoo of a websites logo is totally fucking retarded and deserve whatever they get.
'oh man I tattooed KISS across my chest before the concert last summer, but i hate them now!!!!!!'
Who cares about girls who put tats on their body and regret it, has nothing to do with it.
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Originally posted by p1mpdogg
I dont see why you are justifying anything at all. If it were not for you guys.. we would all be begging our girlfriends, wives, sisters, and cousins to pose infront of our polaroids
oh the irony
Sig heil
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hehOriginally posted by toodamnfli
oh the irony
A fast fortune is easy to earn! Just go with a winner!Comment
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Get your girl and your cousins together!Originally posted by p1mpdogg
I dont see why you are justifying anything at all. If it were not for you guys.. we would all be begging our girlfriends, wives, sisters, and cousins to pose infront of our polaroids
http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...threadid=93241
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I must have missed that thread.Originally posted by Fletch XXX
Get your girl and your cousins together!
http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...threadid=93241
sick.
hahaA fast fortune is easy to earn! Just go with a winner!Comment
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Its a nice one.Originally posted by p1mpdogg
I must have missed that thread.
sick.
haha
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It's a simple thing Fletch. Not many things really piss me off but if you even joke about me treating a model poorly or fucking somebody over then I take offense.Originally posted by Fletch XXX
Anyone who lets one line followed by a winky get them this upset has issues.
Her remarks were uncalled for.Comment
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Hey Grandma's flying in for Xmas... let's set up the shower cam.
You never know what might happen
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Aaron you're still offended?
Okay I'm sorry, do you want me to fedex you some roses or something?
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Atomic Web WorksOriginally posted by cherrylula
Aaron you're still offended?
Okay I'm sorry, do you want me to fedex you some roses or something?
PMB 216-134
16409 S.E. Division
Portland, OR 97236Comment
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Yeah Aaron, expect them soon.
buahahah
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Its all about the 'or something'.
hehehe
Mail your ass a dead rat.
<img src=http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/ifc/phi_mu_delta/public_html/brothers/pictures/events/storm/dead_rat.jpg border="1">Last edited by Fletch XXX; 12-15-2002, 12:02 PM.
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The market wouldn't support that many "amateur girl" or sites devoted to just one girl.Originally posted by cherrylula
Oh please do you know how many young girls get tattoos and regret it? I still don't really think SG is doing anything wrong.
Any girl with photographic qualities should get her own site, period. And not pose for others. THAT is where the money is.
Good thing they don't so we can all buy content and make money with them.
And I'm not going to lose any sleep over the possibility: the girls are happy to pose, take the money, buy some clothes they don't really need or some E or grass.
Most of them have no talent for putting up a site (most people don't, not just models), so they'd be "victimized" by someone else with the expertise.
They are just learning like the rest of us that the money goes to the people with the talent, the ability, and the seed money.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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I can shoot what you need call me on Monday 858-581-1850 ask for Harvey we have grat prices and fast turn around.Email:[email protected]
Site: http://TheScreamingO.com
Program: http://http://www.idevaffiliate.com
Skype: theharvman
ICQ: 150092593Comment
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I was about to compliment you for being a new content provider who appears to have their shit together with a real email addy and everything. BUT......then I went to you site to look at your content.Originally posted by theharvman
I can shoot what you need call me on Monday 858-581-1850 ask for Harvey we have grat prices and fast turn around.Comment
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Ok, I asked Spooky Suicide about model mistreatment.
Here's what he had to say:
Haha
Everyone hates us. Blah. Blah. Blah. Success is a bitch. But we currently pay $300 for a shoot in our studio that lasts about 2 hours, and we only shoot stills that only appear on SG and we only require partial nudity. I'm sure all those other guys pay more, right?
4 SuicideGirls who started as models, now work full time for us drawing in nice salaries with full medical and dental, paid holidays and have learned all kinds of new web and business skills. SuicideGirls have gone on MTV, ABC, Playboy, HBO and ComedyCentral, toured with the warped tour and ozzfest, and starred in a TromaFilm. We even got one SuicideGirl in touch with an A & R guy for a major label who is funding a demo for her. Their burlesque act sells out a big club in Portland once a month and they have opened for the Rev Horton Heat and Andrew W.K. All appearances and performances the girls are paid directly by the venue, without SuicideGirls.com making any money on the live events, just the girls. We're just happy for the promotion.
There will be a book of photos published, and we are working with a network on a TV Show. We have an offer to do a radio show as well. In all these projects the girls are paid again.
Out of the 95 girls on the site, find 5 who would say anything bad about us. You couldn't. I'm not saying there aren't 2 or 3 girls who we have disagreed on things with, but out of 95, that¹s not a bad percentage.
Spookythe sound of one hand googlewhackingComment
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nice
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Exactly.
Envy.
See ya on HBO.Last edited by Fletch XXX; 12-15-2002, 07:54 PM.
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LOL. Too funny.
Come to Portland and check it out firsthand...Then come back here and tell me that "Spooky" is not full of shit.Comment
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Check what out firsthand? Full of shit about what?Originally posted by AaronM
LOL. Too funny.
Come to Portland and check it out firsthand...Then come back here and tell me that "Spooky" is not full of shit.
Just trying to find a point in what you're saying about SG.Comment
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Nevermind me. I am just a broke ass wannabe content guy who is jealous over the sucess of SG. I am sure that Unseen is the same as me. WTF would two losers like us know anyway?
Excuse me while I go back to taking advantage of models.
From what I have read and hear about the site concept I think it is great.
I wish the girls were beating my door down in the same fashion.
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Thats pretty much what I figured.Originally posted by AaronM
Nevermind me. I am just a broke ass wannabe content guy who is jealous over the sucess of SG. I am sure that Unseen is the same as me. WTF would two losers like us know anyway?
Excuse me while I go back to taking advantage of models.
From what I have read and hear about the site concept I think it is great.
I wish the girls were beating my door down in the same fashion.
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Damn those Portland area photographers. They're all ruining the business.- Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com
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