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adamneve

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#1

Industry expanding

05-14-2003, 05:04 AM

it seems that this industry is growing and growing
many new webmasters join this industry day after day the numbers
are enormous compared to 3-4 years ago,
how do you think it's going to affect us all in the future?
will we get a smaller piece of the pie or does this mean more good compettion ending in more profit?

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FlyingIguana

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#2

05-14-2003, 05:08 AM

typically more competition = less profit
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#3

05-14-2003, 05:12 AM

typically more competition = less profit OR start seeing
your competition as your market.
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Sharky

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#4

05-14-2003, 05:18 AM

IMO many of these new webmaster boards are started by industry newbies hoping to make a buck. The following they
generate is other newbies who share stories and ideas about how to give way too much free content to make a few bucks.

There are more and more new webmasters joining the industry...
Most of them start off by giving away WAY too much free
content. If they make a little money, they duplicate what they are doing in hopes of making more... It's only oversaturating the industry with the amount of free content available.

It's so much harder now to make a sale than it was 2 years ago.
and even 2 years before that. This industry is going to have to go through a lot of changes over the next few years for us to continue to rake in the $$.

Sponsors are tightening their belts and trying to squeeze out any extra profit they can make. Where as before they were mindlessly blowing money on extravagant parties and extra staff.

Webmasters today need to start and diversify their income sources. whether it be starting their own paysites, or getting traffic from sources other than just TGP's or Search Engines. Things can change... and on should never have all of their eggs in one basket.

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funkmaster

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#5

05-14-2003, 05:31 AM

... it´s been a while since I heared someone saying: "recession will not affect the porn industrie"
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#6

05-14-2003, 05:35 AM

lol Funkmaster...

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tony286

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#7

05-14-2003, 05:44 AM

I think alot of new webmasters may try our business but 90% dont last. Once the reality of its not easy money and you have to work sinks in.
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FlyingIguana

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#8

05-14-2003, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by sharky
IMO many of these new webmaster boards are started by industry newbies hoping to make a buck. The following they
generate is other newbies who share stories and ideas about how to give way too much free content to make a few bucks.

There are more and more new webmasters joining the industry...
Most of them start off by giving away WAY too much free
content. If they make a little money, they duplicate what they are doing in hopes of making more... It's only oversaturating the industry with the amount of free content available.

It's so much harder now to make a sale than it was 2 years ago.
and even 2 years before that. This industry is going to have to go through a lot of changes over the next few years for us to continue to rake in the $$.

Sponsors are tightening their belts and trying to squeeze out any extra profit they can make. Where as before they were mindlessly blowing money on extravagant parties and extra staff.

Webmasters today need to start and diversify their income sources. whether it be starting their own paysites, or getting traffic from sources other than just TGP's or Search Engines. Things can change... and on should never have all of their eggs in one basket.

the quality of paysites needs to go up. thats the biggest problem.
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#9

05-14-2003, 05:50 AM

kill them.
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#10

05-14-2003, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by FlyingIguana

the quality of paysites needs to go up. thats the biggest problem.

Exactly.

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#11

05-14-2003, 05:56 AM

Originally posted by sharky
IMO many of these new webmaster boards are started by industry newbies hoping to make a buck. The following they
generate is other newbies who share stories and ideas about how to give way too much free content to make a few bucks.

There are more and more new webmasters joining the industry...
Most of them start off by giving away WAY too much free
content. If they make a little money, they duplicate what they are doing in hopes of making more... It's only oversaturating the industry with the amount of free content available.

It's so much harder now to make a sale than it was 2 years ago.
and even 2 years before that. This industry is going to have to go through a lot of changes over the next few years for us to continue to rake in the $$.

Sponsors are tightening their belts and trying to squeeze out any extra profit they can make. Where as before they were mindlessly blowing money on extravagant parties and extra staff.

Webmasters today need to start and diversify their income sources. whether it be starting their own paysites, or getting traffic from sources other than just TGP's or Search Engines. Things can change... and on should never have all of their eggs in one basket.

Well said, Mike - you nailed a lot of good points.

The Internet is a competitive market by most definitions - infinite suppliers and consumers, low barriers to entry & all. Thus it's expected profits will reduce, as adult webmasters increase and surfers become more net savy. So it will be those who can innovate & create niche markets that secure themselves a future.

Definitely diversification is advisable - things change so quickly in this line of work, it's foolish to believe that if you're making money now, doing the same thing in two years time will make you the same money.

I guess this is simply a reflection of my own experiences - I've done a bit of everything online, often with good results at first, then markets become saturated, so I move out and find new things to try, and just hope they can make more money

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Paul Markham

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#12

05-14-2003, 06:27 AM

The days of most of the newbie are numbered. Why?

There are now a lot more "Professional" pornographers looking at the Internet as an avenue to sell their goods. Hustler have come back in, PRO are looking to make inroads into this market, Score, Private, Bookpress and others are well established and doing well.

What this means is that the middle to better end is going to be dominated by those that are already established on the net and the old pro's looking to increase revenue on the net.

So all that is left for the newbie is the bottom of the barrel and that is already over populated with get rich quick guys, schoolkids paying their way through college and a few enthusiasts that want to be pornographers.

The surfer is becoming more and more educated, is now loking for and getting quality. The other stuff is just a distration.

And when I talk about quality I do not mean Playboy and Penthouse, I mean a quality of pornography. Something that makes the surfer horny and want to buy, not just the meat laid out in the hope enough will see it that some must buy.

Even Amateur porn needs to have quality to it.

Another thing to consider is the number of content providers struggling to make sales and doing give away offers.

We are a barometer of the industry, when it does well people buy content. When it is slow people do not.

At the moment lots are offering crazy deals just to get sales. But it's all to the good, the strength of the industry is not the providers, it's the consumers. Less providers means more for those left in the business.

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Paul Markham

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#13

05-14-2003, 06:33 AM

Sorry waffled on and on and did not make the point.

If you want to survive today you have to go for quality, quality in content, design and traffic.

Good hot horny porn, that a Russian cannot shoot, good individual designs that a newbie or cookie cutter template cannot do and get traffic by the best route not any bloody route you can find.

This is for experienced pornographers, who do not want to compete with newbies.

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#14

05-14-2003, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by mrthumbs
typically more competition = less profit OR start seeing
your competition as your market.

one of the smartest things I have heard on this board in ages.
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FlyingIguana

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#15

05-14-2003, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by sarah_webinc

one of the smartest things I have heard on this board in ages.

it'll still hurt profits in either case
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#16

05-14-2003, 06:57 AM

Most don't have the stomach for the biz side of this industry.

I meet a lot who think it will be all fun and games, and they lose a few hundred before calling it quits.
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#17

05-14-2003, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by charly

Another thing to consider is the number of content providers struggling to make sales and doing give away offers.

We are a barometer of the industry, when it does well people buy content. When it is slow people do not.

So true

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#18

05-14-2003, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by FlyingIguana

the quality of paysites needs to go up. thats the biggest problem.

I don't see that as the BIGGEST problem. I would rather there be more poor quality paysites than more free sites giving away the whole shebang for free. If there are more poor quality paysites, the surfers will sign up to the better quality ones (designed by companies like mine, blue designs & a few others).

If you are referring to poor quality by meaning poor customer service and sketchy billing methods.. then you have a point.... but as for the quality of the design & members area content... I know most of my customers have just about all that can be bought as well as exclusive content. It doesn't get much better than that.

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FlyingIguana

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#19

05-14-2003, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by sharky

I don't see that as the BIGGEST problem. I would rather there be more poor quality paysites than more free sites giving away the whole shebang for free. If there are more poor quality paysites, the surfers will sign up to the better quality ones (designed by companies like mine, blue designs & a few others).

If you are referring to poor quality by meaning poor customer service and sketchy billing methods.. then you have a point.... but as for the quality of the design & members area content... I know most of my customers have just about all that can be bought as well as exclusive content. It doesn't get much better than that.

lol. there are more than enough poor quality sites now. if you're not retaining at over 50% then your site isn't as quality as you think. i see a lot of people on this board talk about how the surfer is getting so much value for their money, yet their sites can't hold a surfer for more than 2 months. obviously the surfer doesn't think they're getting a whole lot of value or else you would see more stay for a longer period of time.

if a surfer has seen a few crappy members areas then they may think all paysites suck. i know a lot of people who think signing up for a trial is a waste of time because its not worth 2 bux let alone 20-40.
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#20

05-14-2003, 08:41 AM

i think it's gonna oscillate.. its gonna reach a peak of over-saturation, then come back to normal and things will get better again..
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#21

05-14-2003, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by funkmaster
... it´s been a while since I heared someone saying: "recession will not affect the porn industrie"

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#22

05-14-2003, 09:41 AM

At the first convention I attended I was told that I would not be back the following year. I was back the following year, and the year after that we had a booth in Vegas - Not to mention being a sponsor for the Player's Ball.

Anyone can make a web site and post pictures on line. But most webmasters don't have enough common sense to run a business, which is what this is.

The people who are able to run a business and put quality websites will continue on. All others will fail and leave. The day of the quick and easy buck in this industry is gone.

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FlyingIguana

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#23

05-14-2003, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by RocHard
At the first convention I attended I was told that I would not be back the following year. I was back the following year, and the year after that we had a booth in Vegas - Not to mention being a sponsor for the Player's Ball.

Anyone can make a web site and post pictures on line. But most webmasters don't have enough common sense to run a business, which is what this is.

The people who are able to run a business and put quality websites will continue on. All others will fail and leave. The day of the quick and easy buck in this industry is gone.

i would say you need more than common sense to run a business. i think thats the problem, people think if you have common sense you can run a buisiness. the problem is, the average person is actually stupid.
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#24

05-14-2003, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
the average person is actually stupid.
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#25

05-14-2003, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by FlyingIguana

lol. there are more than enough poor quality sites now. if you're not retaining at over 50% then your site isn't as quality as you think. i see a lot of people on this board talk about how the surfer is getting so much value for their money, yet their sites can't hold a surfer for more than 2 months. obviously the surfer doesn't think they're getting a whole lot of value or else you would see more stay for a longer period of time.

if a surfer has seen a few crappy members areas then they may think all paysites suck. i know a lot of people who think signing up for a trial is a waste of time because its not worth 2 bux let alone 20-40.

Retaining at 50%

That's a VERY high number! Industry average from what I hear is roughly 30-35%. It's hard to retain when there are so many sites out there offering the same stuff for free.
The only way to keep 50% retention is to have 100% exclusive content or be involved in a real tight niche.

Sharky
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FlyingIguana

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#26

05-14-2003, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by sharky

Retaining at 50%

That's a VERY high number! Industry average from what I hear is roughly 30-35%. It's hard to retain when there are so many sites out there offering the same stuff for free.
The only way to keep 50% retention is to have 100% exclusive content or be involved in a real tight niche.

give the customer value and they will stay. i'd say the industry avg is more like 25%
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#27

05-14-2003, 10:57 AM

Losing money and bleeding
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adamneve

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#28

05-14-2003, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by RocHard
At the first convention I attended I was told that I would not be back the following year. I was back the following year, and the year after that we had a booth in Vegas - Not to mention being a sponsor for the Player's Ball.

Anyone can make a web site and post pictures on line. But most webmasters don't have enough common sense to run a business, which is what this is.

The people who are able to run a business and put quality websites will continue on. All others will fail and leave. The day of the quick and easy buck in this industry is gone.

your right but today there are so many new websites, we see it every single day, new webmaster programs, tgp, avs.
Even at the conventions you can see the growth every single
year.

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#29

05-14-2003, 01:48 PM

I wonder what the percentages are -
When I opened my first site back in 96 - How many adult sites and how many surfers -
Today, millions more of both - I would hazard a guess that % ratio between site and surfer back then, is not too disimilar to today.
The only difference today is, now you have the equivilent of the multi-national operator at the top. The marketing specialists feeding them in the middle, and the improvers (in some case, losers) at the bottom.
The whole industry is, with a few exceptions, more pro - And we need to make it more so -
The shitheads, scammers cheaters thieves and hackers should be rooted out - BY US!
There should always be a place in this industry for out and out amateurs likewise for the multi-national.

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#30

05-14-2003, 01:49 PM

I think alot of new webmasters may try our business but 90% dont last.

I hope you are right, I want to see all newbee webmasters give up. More competition... thats all we need.

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#31

05-14-2003, 01:56 PM

if you live in a 3rd world country and have internet access, a signup or 2 goes a long way. newbies aren't going anywhere.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
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