Why has Africa always been a shithole?

I've never been there, but from the studies I've done of it I'd say it is a very amazing place, beautiful, wild and untamed in some areas, seriously breath-taking in others. What makes it a shithole is definitely a certain percentage of the people in many of the countries there. Some of the oldest nations on earth, yet they haven't evolved as societies beyond the lawless "wild west" era of the US, circa 1800-1900

perhaps colonialism has something to do with it?

Black Americans should get down on their knees every day and thank the other africans, arabs and europeans who sold their ancestors into slavery.

America = freedoms, opportunity for wealth, access to best healthcare in world, rule of law.

Africa = disease, dictatorship, genocide, casual death, poverty.

France, england and US came on africa, killed people, makes them slave and stole everything. and today when someone is africa graduate from college, he goes to europe or north america.

They have thousands of different groups that just don't get along. African continent has lots of untapped resources that could make them a reall economic power

Most African nations had thousands of years to develop themselves into greatness BEFORE there was a British empire or American slavers. No excuse. The USA has only been around for 228 years, Canada even less.

The key is that you set up a government by the people FOR the people, you hold honest elections, and you build. Schools, railways, industry, commerce, and you grow as a nation.... something that few if any African nations have been able to do without outside influence.

For the same reason Harlem is a ghetto.

because they are just monkeys, only with opposable thumbs so they can use destructive weapons like guns.


Someone said they are advanced as far as wild west usa times. Yea right. The white man was more evolved even back in the days of Socrates and Aristotle.

after the fall of the egyptian empire, africa went to shit, mainly because a large portion of africa is uninhabitable desert and because a lot of the other "empires" that took power after the fall of the egyptian wouldn't let africans develop anything

i would say that the opposite was the case. colonialism may have had a bad side (slavery etc), but the countries that were colonised were probably better off with it than without it. just look at countries like zimbabwe, and all the other countries that gained independance this century, many are in a much worse situation now they are independant.

That is the only time in US history that most African nations could be compared to at this time. But back in the 1700's they were no further along than the N. American indian tribes all fighting with spears and bows & arrows.... and war clubs.


Of course, I won't engage you on your obvious descriminatory tone which borders on blind hatred of anything non-white. Why bother?

Colonization of America went thru okay.

Africa has known several fairly advanced civilizations, especially northern Africa. Some of those have lasted for quite a bit longer than the 228 years of the US. Civilizations aren't lineair. They tend to rise and fall.

No African nations had thousands of years to develop themselves into greatness. The African *nations* of today were formed by European colonialism, not by Africans themselves. That's one of the main reasons things aren't working out over there, opposing tribes were put in countries together, while other tribes were spread out over several nations. Note that this happened a very short while ago from a historical perspective. They haven't had much time to recover from it yet.

Another problem are the trade barriers the western world has set up to prevent cheap products coming in from Africa. Most African products that are imported into western countries are taxed several times as much as products from other western countries. For instance, certain agricultural products from Africa are taxed 80% when being imported into Europe. This makes it very hard for those countries to build up a strong economy. Note that they do import a lot, so their cashflow is negative.

Ofcourse, there are far more reasons for the current state of Africa. For instance, crude resources are taken by western corporations with very little of the proceeds actually benefitting those countries. These western corporations actively support corrupt regimes by giving them financial aid. Also, they avoid using African workers as much as possible (which often means entirely), so it doesn't benefit employment either.

Yet another point that keeps Africa from achieving a decent economy is the debts which most African countries have. These debts often are many times the countries' GDPs, and even paying a portion of the interest on them takes up more resources than these countries can spare.
Most of these debts were racked up by dictators and corrupt regimes, and almost always none of the money actually reached the inhabitants of the country. Oh yeah, many of these dictators and corrupt regimes actually received support from western countries.

There are about a thousand other factors that play a large role in what happened to Africa and is still happening. Suffices to say, stating it's because of the "ignorant Africans" only reflects the ignorant of the person who makes the statement.

compare the poorest countries in the world, they are all the colonies that britain and abroad let go of last.

With our new global economy, you are going to see some of these countries emerge as economic powers in the next 20 years.

Cecil Rhodes? Idi Amin? Gerald Magabi? The list goes on.

You compare a continent with a country?

But South africa is a alright country if you ask me...

Great post

People have been living in Africa for thousands of years. Long before there was any UK or N. American societies, at least as far as we know them today.

They've had time. Time to form nations, form governments, develop and modernize. I'm not sure how anyone can disagree with that.

Admittedly it took Great Britain 500 years or so to actually develop a working democtratic model of government (thank you Oliver Cromwell et al), but you'll notice that basically the first thing other than survival on the minds of those that hit the shores of Australia and the N. American East coast was to create social order and begin developing the region into something liveable. The question is, why hasen't any of the African peoples accomplished anything close to that and made it last into the modern world? Why?

Sorry, they certainly HAVE had thousands of years.

no way, it can't be ... what has colonialism having to do with Africa ... or India ... or even Latin America (thank God Latin America was a colony of the Spanish Empire which ended with the 1898 war with the US).

It's the heat, too much sun makes people lazy. Would you do any work if you lived there?

Africa gets raped of it's resources because Africans allow it. How 'bout them apples?

It's the Somalians. Rapists, Murderers, Theives, Lazy Cocksuckers.
The world would be better off without these people. They have as much value as used toilet paper.

good to see there's at least one educated person amidst all the ignorant masses here

Working two hours a day won't get you anywhere.
Sitting in the sun and let the women do all work won't get you anywhere.

Africa has everything: oil, minerals, land. Compare with Holland as an example. ONE single country in Africa should have done something.

They, they are a problem bunch

As Pinkworld mentioned....... there have been advanced and powerful African nations, however, all great things come to an end eventually.

We have learned alot from the Egyptians.

The current African nations have only existed for a short period of time. That's a fact. So those didn't have time to develop into what the western world looks like today.

When Europe was inhabited by barbarians, Africa had civilizations. That's a fact. So they did develop civilizations.

Now, on to the point you are missing. America and Australia both had the benefit of the natives pretty much being wiped out or outnumbered by colonists. These colonists were Europeans that continued adhering to European culture and social structures (or things very close to that).
The general populace quite quickly changed into Europeans, without a vast majority of natives that were brought into semi-slavery. No ruling minority based on race was installed.
So, when the Australian and North American colonies became independant, the majority, which was also the ruling racial class, stayed.
When the African colonies became independant, the ruling racial class left and the majority consisting of semi-slaves were left in charge. All capital disappeared with the racial ruling class, as did any form of stable government they had.

When N-America and Australia became independant, they could just carry on with a form of government much like the one they were used to, and could for a large part stick to their old traditions. Africa, however, had to build up an entirely new form of government and had to create an entirely new culture.
Building on an old tradition is a lot easier than creating a new one, especially when you've had more time (the African colonies became independant a very short while ago).


Now, on to why Africa didn't build the same kind of culture as Europe earlier already... there are tons of factors in this, but I'll explain a few of the main ones:

#1: Europe has a different climate than Africa. The African climate is far more suitable for a nomadic way of life, while the European climate is more suitable for a static way of farming. The European situation therefore makes the forming of large villages, towns and cities more likely, and cities contribute a lot to an advancing civilization.

#2: European culture is largely based on large scale warfare and expansionism. This makes larger nations much more likely to develop, and larger nations tend to display a faster development than small communities. Also, it adds a lot to technological advancement, which also brings along many other benefits.

#3: European culture is largely based on Roman culture, which was largely based on Greek culture, etc. A tradition of technology, politics and warfare greatly aids the development of nations.

So, all matters considered, it's simply impossible to compare the two. The "thousands of years" have much less to do with development than a combination of random and coincidental factors. If Africans had lived in Europe, chances are they had developed advanced civilizations.

It's all the fault of the white man. To even consider other possibilities is racist.

Nice to see someone intelligent who can combine several disciplines, a historical perspective and current G7 economic policy per the cancun trade round.

Because most of the original inhabitants were killed by the europeans

Mainly by disease though, not through warfare.

You got a point there many of them got killed by diseases which were brought to america by Europeans, but still a lot of them got killed by guns.

I left out that point for a reason.... it is a whole other discussion. So, it is the fault of the French and the British? Interesting. Of course there is the opinion that they "left the buggers high and dry", but after gaining the independance they desired for so long one would think the next course of action would be to establish order and build the kind of country they've always dreamed of rather than burning pillaging raping and killing each other.

Your post is chock full of reasons, or excuses depending on how one thinks..... but I'll say this though.... it's never too late to start down a better path. As someone else said here, African nations are rich enough in resources that over the next 20+ years some could definitely crawl out of the depths of being ranked lowest and claim their place amongst other leading nations of the world.

Really the only thing stopping them, aside from all the obstacles you mentioned, is the people themselves.

Jews have been oppressed and treated like shit throughout history yet are some of the most successful people in the world.

I live in South Afrcia, and trust me, it's 100 times better than the country you live in ...

Who said anything about a "fault"? All I do is explain how the current situation developed. It's not like the colonist countries deliberately created this situation.
It is quite possible that in 100 years, Africa will be the richest region in the world, or maybe SE-Asia. History is not lineair, like I said before. The US have only existed for a few hundred years, and modern western civilization not much longer. 1500 years ago, China could have spoken about western Europe and America exactly the same way we do now about Africa. Things change in history, and to see this as a permanent or even long-term situation is rather ignorant. To expect a major change in a few decades is perhaps even more ignorant.

Some girl from my town was lost in South Africa and got murdered, her parents were robbed while they were looking for her

(of course I know this could have happend in any country but still...)

"jew" is a religion... not a race of people, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic at hand, but thanks for playing

My cousin lives there, he thinks the same. Yet when he comes here he freaks out when i come home at 4am, asks me if im not afraid of being murdered LMAO

He's got 6 dogs, 2 security guards with guns. South africa is way better... right

Whites have seperate buses, schools and anything else you can imagine from the blacks. Funny shit.

Highest murder/rape rate. The whole package. All of which makes me want to move to south africa.

Violent crime is the biggest problem here, I'm not denying it...

NOTR - maybe you should've read my post
before replying...

Or if you want me to spell it for you:
South Africa is 100 times better than the country Dark Jedy lives in..

As for the higher murder/rape rate - the chances of you getting killed in a car accident are much higher than the chances of me getting murdered/raped, yet you don't shit in your pants when you drive, do you?

__________________________________________________ _
#1: Europe has a different climate than Africa. The African climate is far more suitable for a nomadic way of life, while the European climate is more suitable for a static way of farming. The European situation therefore makes the forming of large villages, towns and cities more likely, and cities contribute a lot to an advancing civilization.

#2: European culture is largely based on large scale warfare and expansionism. This makes larger nations much more likely to develop, and larger nations tend to display a faster development than small communities. Also, it adds a lot to technological advancement, which also brings along many other benefits.

#3: European culture is largely based on Roman culture, which was largely based on Greek culture, etc. A tradition of technology, politics and warfare greatly aids the development of nations.
__________________________________________________ _

Great Post.... Quite true.
.....As to Antonio. I lived in Morningside in Jo'burg for four years, and I have to tell you, the crime rate in South Africa since Mandela first took over has gone crazy.....the police force is hopelessly out classed and out gunned, car-jacking is up to like 87%., home invasion robberies are ridiculously high....it makes Detroit and and South-central look like Disneyland.

100% true

I live in Pretoria, yet I drive every weekend to Rivonia to hit the night clubs

I never said otherwise. I see nothing permanent about any country in the world, nothing in my posts suggested otherwise. Thus the little plus sign beside the 20. You may have missed it. Plus, neither my post or the one before mine that mentioned the 20 years suggested any expectation of major postitive change. It was only offered as a possibility, which it is. 20 years can see a lot of change in a country's status, just look at Russia.

And here's a thought... you could try leaving off the little "ignorant" jabs and just speak your opinion. Makes for a much friendlier discussion.

You haven't seen me drive.

Punkworld happens to have an opinion that is supported in both historical analysis and current world trade issues (i.e. cancun trade round where developing countries colluded to force an end to G7 agricultural subsidies).

Your initial premise was vague.

Hahahahahahahaha.