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basically, you're saying everyone should be a square?Originally posted by gothweb
I thought I would post this now, since I have had thoughts like this for a while, and for once they came to mind when I was totally calm.
This industry is fucked up. Here's some general thoughts that have been floating around in my black-dyed head. Discuss...
First, there's virtually no morality. I don't mean the fact that we're in porn. I know that. Naked people, filming sex, blah blah blah. What I mean is that people just don't *think* about right and wrong.
How often do you hear someone say that someone shouldn't complain about a moral issue because "we're all in porn anyhow"? Apparently, because we do some things that some people think are wrong, we don't need to be moral.
I know it is easy to think that since we're in a vice industry, we shouldn't bother. Well, I have an idea for you. Since we're in a vice industry, we need to try even harder to make sure we don't cross the line. We are much closer to the line, and it would be easy to do unconscionable things. Plus, if we don't show that we are capable of moral thought and restrained action, then we become what everyone says we are. We prove them right, and give the world more reason to put us out of business.
Or, since morality is a subject that is so foreign and upsetting to so many people on here (I know someone will call me a pussy, or holier-than-thou for even bringing it up)... I can talk about something a bit simpler... Business ethics.
Where the hell are the business ethics in this industry? Look at how much of what is done is informal, and off the books. Look at how much of ther industry is based on posturing, rather than being businesslike. How many people respond to disputes with insults or threats? It's nuts.
Sometimes, it feels like the wild west. (Especially when I was going through a certain dispute.) It doesn't matter what has been promised, what has been signed, what the law is, or what the right thing would be. Might makes right, and possession is 9/10 of the law.
Well, guess what? This is 2003, not the wild west, and not 1920s Chicago. Might doesn't make right, and we should be above it.
Thuggery, shaving, shell companies, offshore bullshit, hitbots, contact evasion, content theft, non-payment, transparent excuses... It goes on and on.
And that's just how we deal with eachother. How some adut business deal with their customers is even more insane.
Spam, "free trials", stealth cross-sales, popups everywhere, fake "niche" sites with bullshit member areas, sites thrown together with no knowledge of the subject, overzealous rebilling, blind links, unneccesary "eraser" software, illegal content, dubious content, it goes on and on.
Wouldn't you rather be at least a little proud of your job?
i am a paradigm of all your grievances, and i do quite well.. maybe you are just jealous.Comment
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karma
we should all think about what he is saying
good shit man
Visit the PornPosse to see what we can do for you!
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"first you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the woman.." - Tony MontanaOriginally posted by Cassie
you can make money by being honest! no one can ever fault honesty even if it is something he/she may not want to hear. what being honest will get you is respect and with respect comes a whole slew of things; money being one of them!
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and what's your mission? to kill competitors and stay alone in this biz?Originally posted by gothweb
I thought I would post this now, since I have had thoughts like this for a while, and for once they came to mind when I was totally calm.
This industry is fucked up. Here's some general thoughts that have been floating around in my black-dyed head. Discuss...
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Subjectivity does not remove the possibility of moral discourse or standards. Subjectivity means that the details depend on what people think. Nevertheless, one can still consider moral standards.Originally posted by aeon
metaethics are for the lecture hall...trying to argue moral standards to self proclaimed subjectivists...funny.
best of luck -
aeon
Look at it this way... Subjectivity means we won't all agree on what is moral. However, broad arguments, such as the need to hold to *some* standard, can still be made.
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Originally posted by TheSenator
I like beer!
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Kudos to a Cool Thread, nice to see some considered thoughts here.
Drink or smoke what you fancy pull up a chair and think for a few minutes!
oh and I LOVED this one....thanks
"Actually, the primary difference between morality (promoted by religions) and ethics (promoted by philosophical systems) is that morality is about adhering to a code whereas ethics is about making good and logically justifiable decisions. What does that mean? It means that morality is objective and ethics are subjective."Comment
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I love this industry, and everything about it
The losers are heading for big falls, as the billing companies who control the purse strings are getting smarter
The winners undertand this, and are positioning themselves for the long run
And at the end of the day, how different are we really from the rest of the business world?
The only difference with us is that we read and hear about everything in seconds because of these boards
My best recommendation is this........
CONCENTRATE ON YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND GET ON WITH MAKING $$$$Comment
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I just saw this thread, and I don´t have time to read all the responses, so I´m sorry if anyone has mentioned what I´m about to say.
Morals are not just low in the porn industrie, what about Enron and Worldcom!
Have you read Fast Food Nation and No Logo?
MacDonalds was once forced to take down jars for tips, because the employees didn´t get the tips, MacDonalds took it for them selfs!! I man how fucked up is that? Pay some one minimum wages, fire them if they even dream the word UNION, and then steal from them as well!
Out of the 100 biggest economies in the world, 51 are Companies! Shell has more money than Denmark, MacDonalds has more money than most African countries, they didn´t get there by being nice!
Personally I would never get involved with a huge corporation, if it´s in they interest to fuck you, they´ll fuck you twice to make sure they made a profit
So it´s not just porn that has bad morals!
What you should talk about is the hipocrasy in society!
While showing murders on TV, if a little shot of a snatch comes on, or some one says the terrible "F" word, every thing goes absoulutely fucking nuts!
While big enerprises have made one of the best payed jobs in America, into the worst payed and most dangerous one (meat-processing), the porn industry is being attacked from all angles for fucking up peoples morals!
Reminds me of the song Eve of Destruction by The Turtles!
Here´s a little quote from the song;
"Think of all the hate there is in Red China,
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama.
Ah, you may leave here for four days in space,
But when you return it's the same ol' place,
The poundin' of the drums, the pride an' disgrace.
You can bury your dead, but don't leave a trace.
Hate your next-door neighbor, but don't forget to say grace,
An' tell me, over and over and over again, my friend,
You don't believe we're on the eve of destruction,
No, no, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction. "Last edited by Gunni; 04-29-2003, 12:31 AM.Comment
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no morality in this industry? there is no morality left in the world. for christs sake people leave babies in dumpsters. there are people right now being raped and tortured in their own countries. people are crazy. and money and power only serve as a catalyst. so everywhere the world over, people are fucked up, cheating, and corrupt. unfortunately i think it's a sign of the times.Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.Comment
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'mad rhymes for mad times, that's what;s up.' - chuck d.
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Gothweb... Man ......You got respect in my Book ! What can I say !
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When you have a small dick and no personality yeah that's the way it works.Originally posted by Donnie Gangsta
"first you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the woman.." - Tony Montana
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It was just illustrating a point.. but btw, no girl wants a broke fucking loser unless they are either really rich and don't care, or they are a broke fucking loser themself with no ambition.Originally posted by Joe Sixpack
When you have a small dick and no personality yeah that's the way it works.
if I were a woman, I wouldn't want to be with someone who didn't have any money; that would just mean that they're a complete failure in life and not worth my time. So, I feel its the case that any woman who will go for you when they think you're really broke is an underachiever who wouldn't be worth messing with anyway.. of course, there are exceptions, such as two college kids who meet up, and neither have money, but both have potential, etc, etc.. but once you're 30 or so, this is the case.
But regardless, the comment was purely meant to be facetitious/dryly humorous, but judging by your response, you are probably too narrow minded to understand... have a nice night.Comment
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I read all that and still learned nothing..... jeese.... your all like the Tree Huggers of porn...... save the indians not the trees.....Comment
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Subjectivity necessarily removes the possibility of an independantly motivating moral "standard". It's far more than details. It's the absolute denial of moral truth beyond individual interpretation/acceptance.Originally posted by gothweb
Subjectivity does not remove the possibility of moral discourse or standards. Subjectivity means that the details depend on what people think. Nevertheless, one can still consider moral standards.
Look at it this way... Subjectivity means we won't all agree on what is moral. However, broad arguments, such as the need to hold to *some* standard, can still be made.
That latter part of your statement resembles universalism, not subjectivism.
best of luck -
aeonQuickRichClick
Backed by the founders of CyberAge.com & UGAS.com.Comment
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I have worked in a variety of jobs since 1978. Most of the jobs have been in the off-line Adult Industry.Originally posted by <IMX>
Gothweb---
I think somebody said it before, you would be well served to look at MOST industries that are competitive and money is made. Lack of morality, ethics good business practices etc... is not unique to the porn industry by any means.
Try fucking stock brokers, real estate agents, car salesman, investment bankers if you want to see childish, egotistical fucks with no morals, etihics or concern for their clients.
You can take away the adult specific comments and make it about any industry or profession.
Relax you will live longer.
Like he said, take away the Adult and you will find out its reality. Trust me.
I rather work in the Adult Industry where I know from the get go its going to be a rollercoaster ride than work in a mainstream job, go to church everyday, have high morals and than get fucked being in the dark and believing only in the good of the people.
bTW, the worsed industry I have worked at and never want to work in it again due to its unmoral nasty ass treatment of their employee is the government
Partying since '96 and not going anywhere Anna's DormComment
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If you were a woman you would be shallow golddigger.Originally posted by Donnie Gangsta
if I were a woman, I wouldn't want to be with someone who didn't have any money; that would just mean that they're a complete failure in life and not worth my time.Comment
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Originally posted by smack
no morality in this industry? there is no morality left in the world. for christs sake people leave babies in dumpsters. there are people right now being raped and tortured in their own countries. people are crazy. and money and power only serve as a catalyst. so everywhere the world over, people are fucked up, cheating, and corrupt. unfortunately i think it's a sign of the times.
True, countries and cultures are made up of all kinds, but do we judge a culture by its pariahs (people who put babies in dumpsters are not treated as heroes, after all...and ditto for rapists and torturers et al) or by those who strive to achieve what's good and better? Because people are individual agents and not aggregates of agents, we can't separate out the sheep from the goats, and so we judge people on balance. With a country, a culture, or an industry, we can say "These ones are good, but these ones are bad."SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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They do this in China, where competitors actually poison their competitions' food in hopes of getting the customer base to shun the 'unhealthy' restaurant.Originally posted by tony404
I agree that is bullshit. If we all owned restaurants and one of us was poisoning their customers, creating a bad name for all of us in the restaurant business. Would people be saying you cant judge them your in the restaurant business too.
One thing to consider is that Adult is much more transparent than many industries, so some things just may be more obvious. Ultimately the culprit in what is being discussed here is human greed, domination and supremacy, and this spills over into all industries.Last edited by Ironhorse; 05-06-2003, 11:42 AM.Comment
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how is that anymore shallow then a man wanting to be with a woman cause she is a hot piece of ass that every man wants to be with?Originally posted by Joe Sixpack
If you were a woman you would be shallow golddigger.
i won't be with a man unless he is successful at everything he does and if he so happens to fail at something, then i want to know that he will either try again at the same thing or be successful at something else. that whole lets live in a box and live off love is pure bullshit.
i personally dont need a mans money but by god, if something were to ever happen, i want to know that the person i choose to be with can hold his own while i get back to the position i was in. if that makes me, and most women who think this way, golddiggers then so be it.
dig away.........
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ahhhh a hopeless romantic.Originally posted by Cassie
i won't be with a man unless he is successful at everything he does and if he so happens to fail at something, then i want to know that he will either try again at the same thing or be successful at something else. that whole lets live in a box and live off love is pure bullshit.
Somehow I get the feeling this is probably a double standard with you.
He better bust his ass while you coast through life.
parasite.Comment
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Strong opinions here, what happend?Comment
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Originally posted by LeeNoga
Strong opinions here, what happend?
You put someone in a position where someone else has the ability to fuck you out of money, I can gaurantee you 99 people out of 100 will do it. Its just that simple... or "business" as the slick theifs like to call it.Comment
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Originally posted by gothweb
--chop chop--
Wouldn't you rather be at least a little proud of your job?
--chop chop--
I'm proud of scoring with hot chicks and doing drugs +
gettin' paid for it... well I would've been anyway.
You got some nice content on your site tho, good work.
First time I see stylish goth content ... keep it up.
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we are way past the lineComment
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Do you have a source for this?Originally posted by Gunni
Out of the 100 biggest economies in the world, 51 are Companies! Shell has more money than Denmark, MacDonalds has more money than most African countries, they didn´t get there by being nice!
Personally I would never get involved with a huge corporation, if it´s in they interest to fuck you, they´ll fuck you twice to make sure they made a profitComment
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That 99% stat may be true around here, but it isnt' universal. That's my whole point. I'm not saying that there aren't other bad people out there, just that we get an undue proportion in this business.Originally posted by gruffy
You put someone in a position where someone else has the ability to fuck you out of money, I can gaurantee you 99 people out of 100 will do it. Its just that simple... or "business" as the slick theifs like to call it.
Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes.
Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money.
MojoHost: Still the best.Comment
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glad you know me so well especially since we have never spoken in an way what so ever!Originally posted by [Labret]
ahhhh a hopeless romantic.
Somehow I get the feeling this is probably a double standard with you.
He better bust his ass while you coast through life.
parasite.
sweetie, everything i have is because I MADE it happen. my money is MINE and as far as double standard goes, it's either my way or no way...that, my dear, is not a double standard. and just to let you know, no i'm not a romantic but rather a realist! divorce is a REALITY (get the similarity here) and the number 1 reason divorce happens these days is because of FINANCES! maybe you would like to be a negative statistic but i choose to go for what i want and make sure it will work so that i can be of the smaller minority that WON'T get divorced.
enjoy divorce!ICQ: 309756847
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Originally posted by gothweb
I know it is easy to think that since we're in a vice industry, we shouldn't bother. Well, I have an idea for you. Since we're in a vice industry, we need to try even harder to make sure we don't cross the line. We are much closer to the line, and it would be easy to do unconscionable things. Plus, if we don't show that we are capable of moral thought and restrained action, then we become what everyone says we are. We prove them right, and give the world more reason to put us out of business.
I am NOT closer to the line because of the erotic nature of some of my business. I am sex-positive and do not believe that sex-related means morally questionable. The work I create and publish is artistically and socially and politically important to me.
If I give my word, it is my bond. I do not change a deal once it has been made and I do not accept other people falling down on their end of a bargain.
I do not consider what I do to be vice. I am creating something beautiful and I am honest and WHAT I DO SELLS partly because it is what people are looking for and partly because surfers can suss out what is genuine and true.
Being honest and true to yourself does pay.
--Amelia G
PS I think mobsters are sexy.Comment
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Originally posted by AmeliaG
I am NOT closer to the line because of the erotic nature of some of my business. I am sex-positive and do not believe that sex-related means morally questionable. The work I create and publish is artistically and socially and politically important to me.
If I give my word, it is my bond. I do not change a deal once it has been made and I do not accept other people falling down on their end of a bargain.
I do not consider what I do to be vice. I am creating something beautiful and I am honest and WHAT I DO SELLS partly because it is what people are looking for and partly because surfers can suss out what is genuine and true.
Being honest and true to yourself does pay.
--Amelia G
PS I think mobsters are sexy.
I'm with you, Amelia. It's the people who can't make an honest buck that have to resort to cheating and lying and double dealing and argue that because that is their way, it is the only way.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Originally posted by gothweb
That 99% stat may be true around here, but it isnt' universal. That's my whole point. I'm not saying that there aren't other bad people out there, just that we get an undue proportion in this business.
That may be because the quick-buck artists (read: lazy good-for-nothing talentless drones) gravitate toward anything with a hint of vice to it because they heard that "sex sells," which sounds pretty good to people without much going for them.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
![[Labret]](data:image/svg+xml;base64,CgkJCTxzdmcgeG1sbnM9J2h0dHA6Ly93d3cudzMub3JnLzIwMDAvc3ZnJyB2aWV3Qm94PScwIDAgNTAgNTAnPgoJCQkJPHJlY3Qgd2lkdGg9JzEwMCUnIGhlaWdodD0nMTAwJScgZmlsbD0nIzRkNjI1MycgLz4KCQkJCTx0ZXh0IHg9JzUwJScgeT0nNTAlJyBmaWxsPSd3aGl0ZScgZm9udC13ZWlnaHQ9J2JvbGQnIGZvbnQtZmFtaWx5PSdBcmlhbCcgZm9udC1zaXplPSczMDAlJyBkb21pbmFudC1iYXNlbGluZT0nY2VudHJhbCcgdGV4dC1hbmNob3I9J21pZGRsZSc+WzwvdGV4dD4KCQkJPC9zdmc+CgkJ "[Labret]")
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