Originally posted by Easton
my morality is bound purely by legality...
as long as it's totally 100% legal, then who cares?
my morality is bound purely by legality...
as long as it's totally 100% legal, then who cares?
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I would tend to agree with you; however, a lot of things we find extremely distateful here in N. America are legal somewhere in the world (e. europe, offshore havens).
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this goes back to what i had originally stated. look out for yourself, set high standards and the rest will learn from example (hopefully).Originally posted by gothweb
Your post just makes me sad. It's really that simple. Myopic, impotent, and misguided.
It is possible to make a difference. There is more than I can do than whining, and even if I don't change the world, that doesn't mean I can't at least set a good example.ICQ: 309756847
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i'm glad you started this thread ian. i have been getting very frusterated myself lately. i realize that compromising morals for money is not something that is found only in this industry, but when youre dealing w sex, morals should play a bigger part of your biz plan-not less. it sometimes seems that i am the only one that feels this way though and its nice to see that i'm not. i have a very open view of morality and its just surprising to me when even the most basic of principles is viewed as expendable....as are the women, or should i call them the "meat".... i'm not sure what the answer is though. and while being honest and treating ppl the way i want to be treated hasnt seemed to make me any real money yet, i get up everyday and dont need to buy myself fixes to feel good about myself-and that is priceless in itself!! k<a href="http://www.petitelilflower.com/enter.html"><img src="http://www.petitelilflower.com/index2_files/logo_grey.jpg" width="111" height="60" border="1"></a>Comment
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The industry is fucked up, yet you consistently participate...Originally posted by gothweb
Your post just makes me sad. It's really that simple. Myopic, impotent, and misguided.
It is possible to make a difference. There is more than I can do than whining, and even if I don't change the world, that doesn't mean I can't at least set a good example.Comment
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And I consistently act with integrity and live up to pretty stringent morals. What is your point exactly? I didn't say that it was, by its very definition, wrong. I said it is fucked up and should have higher moral standards.Originally posted by <IMX>
The industry is fucked up, yet you consistently participate...
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I think one main difference is that there are those who view their main role in the industry as an artistic outlet, while others it's nothing more than a paycheck.- Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com
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Why should that make a difference?Originally posted by Brujah
I think one main difference is that there are those who view their main role in the industry as an artistic outlet, while others it's nothing more than a paycheck.
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Moral? Maybe ethical, but morals are a lot more subjective. B/c people will say by its nature porn is immoral according to accepted Judeo-Christian beliefs in the U.S. that is what Assssss would say.And I consistently act with integrity and live up to pretty stringent morals. What is your point exactly? I didn't say that it was, by its very definition, wrong. I said it is fucked up and should have higher moral standards.
(I lost a whole post so here it is
Myopic => yes, you are speaking of a specific industry, when what you said could be applied to business in general. Business people should be more ethical, yep agreed. Will they? Nope. However, that is not a problem specific to this industry. It is easy to get caught up in what we see _everyday_ instead of taking a look at injustice, immorality, unethical behaviour that effects others we will never come in contact with or competely understand.
As a whole, in some ways businesses are far more accountable in adult, then other businesses. Most ppl can make aquisations of a very public nature in a mater of MINUTES, rather than months...
However, as to not distort that fact with my original point, the adultnet is also so tiny that Visa can delete it without batting an eye.
There are some great personal fortunes made, yes, but most could be trumped by most V.P. I-bankers, insurance salemen, stock brokers or personal injury attorneys.
Impotent=> yes, haven't seen much impact...but we will see.
Misguided => see myopic. What is it exactly that you are trying to do or prove? You tend to make this post or a similar one every month, or milestone...
hahahaha=>Comment
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I have my own views on this. I'm sure everyone has heard them over and over again.
This is a business and should be treated as a business.
Yeah sure it's the business of porn but that doesn't mean you have the right to do things all willy-nilly.
You have to have honesty, ethics and do things in a professional manner.
I'm proud of being in the adult industry and try to treat people the way I expect to be treated.
For me there really is no other way.
OzComment
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I think he has a point, when we started we did it for free. Our motivation was we thought bbw's should be presented in a more flattering light.We eventually went pay but its always been a act of love and creativity. I see my job is to make woman be as comfortable as possible so I get their best and show them as the sexy beautiful people they are. This is my art, very different from the college kid that wants to be a wanna be pimp.I think one main difference is that there are those who view their main role in the industry as an artistic outlet, while others it's nothing more than a paycheck.Comment
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Brujah/Oz--
Definitely adultnet is a business like any other, with its positives and negatives. It deserves the same respect and caution as _any_ other business.
When I get a higher ROI on other projects I will shift my resources toward them.
Gothweb--
How do you feel about TGPs and free sites allowing minors to access porn, many times without warnings etc.?
Quite a few states and countries have laws specifically outlawing this practice.
Do you have hosted galleries in your program?
;)Comment
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Yea some of this new content is really gross. The internet has totally desensitized an entire generation.Comment
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i agree.Originally posted by SoBeGirl Video
Yea some of this new content is really gross.
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Well I have a concert that needs listening to, beer that needs drinking, and girls that need...
Sorry if I miss out on the rest of the discussion, I'm sure we can catch up on it again in a month or so.
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i could be wrong about this but i notice most complain about those who make this industry "evil" and more difficult for us to do what we do in a correct manner. there's no argument that the minority bad-doers have made it diffcult for those who try and do well. however, rather then harping on that, i think we should learn from their mistakes (god i am quoting my mother here!) and press forward. those who sit back quietly and learn will prevail. make a difference for yourself first then worry about others.
morality, ethics, all that is based on an individual's way of life and way of thinking. as long as you believe that what you do is in the best interest of yourself and your customers, then that is really all that matters to you as an individual. i am sure we will all agree that we will never agree on what is moral and ethical as a whole.
just me
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I can see how people who came into it differently would have different moral outlooks. Background will make a difference in what matters to people, because it makes a difference as to the kind of person and their relationship to the job.Originally posted by tony404
I think he has a point, when we started we did it for free. Our motivation was we thought bbw's should be presented in a more flattering light.We eventually went pay but its always been a act of love and creativity. I see my job is to make woman be as comfortable as possible so I get their best and show them as the sexy beautiful people they are. This is my art, very different from the college kid that wants to be a wanna be pimp.
I guess my thought it that, regardless of why you are in this, you *should* apply the same morality. My background doesn't require me to have more morality, it is just related to the fact that I do. Likewise, someone who is in this for the money should not be held to a low standard.
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Are you talking about the business ethics side (tricky billing, autodownloaders, etc) or the content ethics side (sites like Meatholes, etc)?<a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>Comment
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Take your pick. And then some.Originally posted by FATPad
Are you talking about the business ethics side (tricky billing, autodownloaders, etc) or the content ethics side (sites like Meatholes, etc)?
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damn man, why aren't you off somewhere helping sick children in a third world country instead of pushing porn? You're like the crack dealer who will sell to school kids but won't sell to a pregnant mother for whatever reason...Originally posted by gothweb
People with more to their morals than fear of getting caught. There are plenty of us.
YOU SELL CRACK MAN!! YOU'RE VIEWED AS EVIL BY MOST OF THE MAINSTREAM ANYWAY, EVEN THOUGH YOU DO SOFTCORE!!!
If you want to have issues about your industry, you need to bounce.Comment
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Gothweb, you're a pretty stand-up guy, and I really appreciate posts like these.
Look, it's inevitable that at some point, SOMEBODY's gonna step in and regulate this business, making it even harder than it is right now to make money and prosper out of our own homes.
I sincerely think that it's our own self-regulation that will reap the bottom line that we can all ultimately draw upon by which that unforseen 3rd party's regulation will operate. If we hand over control depicted as criminals and cheaters, well, that's how we'll be treated. However, if we already have a solid base from which every webmaster agrees with, then we'll be depicted as "something to keep an eye on, but self-regulatory enough to be allowed to continue."
I just woke up, so I don't know if this makes any sense, but self-regulation is necessary.
AaronM did it. I don't really think his motives were quite in line with what he was doing, but it was at least SOME form of self-regulation, and maybe that's what we need (but without the drama associated).
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I agreeOriginally posted by OzKaNoz
I have my own views on this. I'm sure everyone has heard them over and over again.
This is a business and should be treated as a business.
Yeah sure it's the business of porn but that doesn't mean you have the right to do things all willy-nilly.
You have to have honesty, ethics and do things in a professional manner.
I'm proud of being in the adult industry and try to treat people the way I expect to be treated.
For me there really is no other way.
Oz
Pornkings.comComment
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Yep no matter what you are a Porn peddlerOriginally posted by BVF
damn man, why aren't you off somewhere helping sick children in a third world country instead of pushing porn? You're like the crack dealer who will sell to school kids but won't sell to a pregnant mother for whatever reason...
YOU SELL CRACK MAN!! YOU'RE VIEWED AS EVIL BY MOST OF THE MAINSTREAM ANYWAY, EVEN THOUGH YOU DO SOFTCORE!!!
If you want to have issues about your industry, you need to bounce.Pornkings.comComment
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ya but everyone kisses the asses of the larger programs. they can fuck a few people over and not have to worry much.Originally posted by angelsofporn
it's the result of the anonymity of this biz..you can hide behind a computer and never have to face anyone or the consequences...if all adult webmasters were forcd to live in a small village on a tiny island somewhere there wouldnt be any of this...thats why these boards help a little..not much though...at least we can exchange names and expose scammers a littleComment
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You haven't seen my work, have you?Originally posted by BVF
damn man, why aren't you off somewhere helping sick children in a third world country instead of pushing porn? You're like the crack dealer who will sell to school kids but won't sell to a pregnant mother for whatever reason...
YOU SELL CRACK MAN!! YOU'RE VIEWED AS EVIL BY MOST OF THE MAINSTREAM ANYWAY, EVEN THOUGH YOU DO SOFTCORE!!!
If you want to have issues about your industry, you need to bounce.
Once again... (I wonder how many times I will say this.) The fact that some people see what I do is wrong does not mean I should not hold myself to any moral standard at all.
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we sell Porn, period.. even if we regulate ourselves mainstream still wants us gone.
Even if people look at porn it's still considered dirty because of the way our society is run by religion and Politics which are one.
No matter what you do you are a porn peddler so either deal with it or get out.
If your ready to make money see sig
Pornkings.comComment
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Ian,
Reverential soapboxing aside, what do you propose to do to elevate our policing system?
A master corroborative cheater/angel list?
Are you prepared to maintain something like that?the sound of one hand googlewhackingComment
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Amen. If you don't think the scrub rate applied to surfers trying to join your site isn't because of the low-lifes in this industry your wrong. Scum in this industry should be exposed and then disposed of. We all suffer because of them.What others do should concern you because what they do affects credit card processing and the laws that can be pushed to close us down. Sorry we have to get concerned what the fuck others are doing if you like being in this business, its the simple truth.kevinlComment
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They would want us gone a lot less if we weren't as bad as we are now. Don't you think Meat Holes, Max Hardcore, and Girls Gone Wild make it a lot more likely that we'll be up against the wall soon? Give me a break.Originally posted by Pornkings
we sell Porn, period.. even if we regulate ourselves mainstream still wants us gone.
Even if people look at porn it's still considered dirty because of the way our society is run by religion and Politics which are one.
No matter what you do you are a porn peddler so either deal with it or get out.
If your ready to make money see sig
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It can be a lot simpler than that. not every solution has to be a grand Agency.Originally posted by fnet
Ian,
Reverential soapboxing aside, what do you propose to do to elevate our policing system?
A master corroborative cheater/angel list?
Are you prepared to maintain something like that?
How about this: Don't do business with the bad guys. Don't show the bad guys respect. Stuff like that makes it harder to be a bad guy.
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Complaint? it's not right placeComment
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For a lot of people this is their first business. If you think this industry is fucked up, check out some others.
Hmmm, let's see how about Wall St. Today a so called massive $1.4 Billion dollar fine was levied against virtually every household name firm on Wall St. for deliberately providing bogus or inflated market buy analysis reporting to get investment banking deals from America's biggest Fortune 500 companies. Can we say FRAUD? I guess not, cause that bullshit hit everyone who has trusted these money mavens hard in the pocketbook. We're not talking billions, its more like Trillions. And these fast talking New York sharks get off with a slap on the wrist and $50 to a couple hundred million dollar fines each? That proves they are above the law up there and can fuck us over at will.
So, every industry is filled with good businessmen, and lots of crooks, snakes and scumbags.
There's no morals in Porn, just like there are no morals in any other industry. If you think there should be, dream on, cause it'll never happen. Everyone is out for themselves pretty much and to make as much money as possible.
We all talk here about the edge and not going over it. To most American families EVERYTHING we do and produce is gross and discusting.
But SEX sells and that's what we sell. Hell I just bought my 8 year old Grand Theft Auto for his Sony Playstation 2. When buying it I said isn't that for older kids, and he insisted all his friends had it. Today he's playing it and I see slutty looking girls getting into the car he's cruising around in and I said what exactly are you doing in this game and he goes right now I'm getting points and picking up lots of hookers. I was shocked to put it mildly. PS2 and XBox I'd estimate are in at least 2/3rds of the households in America. So while we are here lambasting our porn endeavors corporate America aka SONY et all are peddling the same sexual garbage we are directly to little kids.
Anyway the bottom line is EVERY industry is FUCKED UP! We are not the only sleazeballs on the block.
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I love it. Everyone has given up. All the proof I need that this industry is fucked up.
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news flash - the world is fucked up!
Comment
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Yeh it is. We're debating the morals of porn while at the same time we just got done killing tens of thousands of people and maiming little kids for life in Iraq.Originally posted by cherrylula
news flash - the world is fucked up!
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Nope. Some are just conducting biz in the best way they know how. In the end, that's really all you can do. The scum aren't going to change just because you notice they're scum.Originally posted by gothweb
I love it. Everyone has given up. All the proof I need that this industry is fucked up.
Note they're scum. Refuse to do biz with them. Tell your friends. What else can you do, short of hiring assasins?
Cheers,
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That tells us a lot about you. Because most of the time its not illegal to lie or screw people in various biz deals. At least if you do it in certain ways.Originally posted by Easton
my morality is bound purely by legality...
as long as it's totally 100% legal, then who cares?
Anyone who lets politicians set their moral values has a serious problem.Comment
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It has nothing to do with porn specifically.
Lazy people and scam artists will always be attracted to easy money. Look at any industry that is labeled as "easy money", you'll usually see 80% fools trying to find an angle of some kind without doing any actual hard work. They will make their money and blow away when their run is over.Gtalk and email :: sd at tabu.comComment
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metaethics are for the lecture hall...trying to argue moral standards to self proclaimed subjectivists...funny.Originally posted by gothweb
I love it. Everyone has given up. All the proof I need that this industry is fucked up.
best of luck -
aeonQuickRichClick
Backed by the founders of CyberAge.com & UGAS.com.Comment
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Impossible everyone has there own idea on who's a badguy and same with people in general. some might think you are a badguy because of Bloodmoney.Originally posted by gothweb
It can be a lot simpler than that. not every solution has to be a grand Agency.
How about this: Don't do business with the bad guys. Don't show the bad guys respect. Stuff like that makes it harder to be a bad guy.
its a losing battle. there will always be good and bad
it all started when eve ate the applePornkings.comComment
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Originally posted by KRL
For a lot of people this is their first business. If you think this industry is fucked up, check out some others.
Hmmm, let's see how about Wall St. Today a so called massive $1.4 Billion dollar fine was levied against virtually every household name firm on Wall St. for deliberately providing bogus or inflated market buy analysis reporting to get investment banking deals from America's biggest Fortune 500 companies. Can we say FRAUD? I guess not, cause that bullshit hit everyone who has trusted these money mavens hard in the pocketbook. We're not talking billions, its more like Trillions. And these fast talking New York sharks get off with a slap on the wrist and $50 to a couple hundred million dollar fines each? That proves they are above the law up there and can fuck us over at will.
So, every industry is filled with good businessmen, and lots of crooks, snakes and scumbags.
There's no morals in Porn, just like there are no morals in any other industry. If you think there should be, dream on, cause it'll never happen. Everyone is out for themselves pretty much and to make as much money as possible.
We all talk here about the edge and not going over it. To most American families EVERYTHING we do and produce is gross and discusting.
But SEX sells and that's what we sell. Hell I just bought my 8 year old Grand Theft Auto for his Sony Playstation 2. When buying it I said isn't that for older kids, and he insisted all his friends had it. Today he's playing it and I see slutty looking girls getting into the car he's cruising around in and I said what exactly are you doing in this game and he goes right now I'm getting points and picking up lots of hookers. I was shocked to put it mildly. PS2 and XBox I'd estimate are in at least 2/3rds of the households in America. So while we are here lambasting our porn endeavors corporate America aka SONY et all are peddling the same sexual garbage we are directly to little kids.
Anyway the bottom line is EVERY industry is FUCKED UP! We are not the only sleazeballs on the block.
Pornkings.comComment
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Very true. But you (just like me) need to understand that this is GFY, this type of stuff doesnt happen everywhere.Originally posted by gothweb
Look at how much of ther industry is based on posturing, rather than being businesslike. How many people respond to disputes with insults or threats? It's nuts.
Sometimes, it feels like the wild west.
ANS is a good board to go to for actual ethics or respected posts.
Your right in your thinking though, good post.Comment
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Originally posted by SunTzu
Lazy people and scam artists will always be attracted to easy money. Look at any industry that is labeled as "easy money", you'll usually see 80% fools trying to find an angle of some kind without doing any actual hard work. They will make their money and blow away when their run is over.
So true!
However what alot of people fail to realize (including myself at first) is just how easy this biz can be with some small routines in place.
Build a gallery - 20 minutes
submit a gallery - 2hrs?
build a free site - 2hrs
submit a free site - 45 minutes
make free site into an avs - 15 minutes
submit the avs - 10 minutes
thats less than 6hrs of work each day, and doing it on a daily basis everyday WILL (not might) WILL pay off in a huge way.
Problem is alot of people spend so much time searching for an easy route, they miss the path right in front of them. I know from experience!
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Many on this board are familar with my stand on ethics and morality in this industry. So, I have found this thread to quite refreshing. This thread proves that there are others who find the current overall state of the industry in dier need of a facelift.
It's to bad that the really bad apples in this biz are also the largest players. There is a solution..one I took over a year ago,...I studied each program in detail before signing up...looking under the hood to see what tricks they might be playing on the consumer. If there were tricks, I simply won't promote them...no exceptions. But, the price is high. This step cost me over $10,000 per month in revenue....But my stance is, you can't play it both ways...if you talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk.Comment
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What gets me is the way people just give up.
When someone complains about having a few friends sign up under their link to test things and the signups never show up, everyone laughs the guy off of the board and says "all sponsors shave, deal with it - what matters is the bottom line".
They've given up.
Or when someone hasn't received a check for, say, $100. Again, he's laughed off the board for saying something about such a "small" amount of money. "There's so much more money to be made in this business, man, just shutup and go make it."
They've given up.
The sponsors can shave us all they want to, companies can get away with not paying webmasters - and no one gives a damn. Why? Because that's the way it's always been.
A group of monkeys in a cage are sprayed down with a hose each time one of them tries to reach for a banana hanging from the top of the cage. After a while, they learn not to try to get the bananas. One day, an old monkey is taken out of the cage and a new monkey is put into the cage. He sees the bananas and starts to go for one - the other monkeys beat him senseless so that they don't get sprayed with the hose. One by one, the original monkeys are traded out for new monkeys until there are *none* of the original monkeys left in that cage. Not one of the monkeys in the cage has *ever* been sprayed by the hose - they just know that when you go for the bananas, you get beat up.
Why?
Because that's the way it's always been.Comment
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gothweb, I think you just have GFY overload!
The porn business is no different than corporate land. There are honest people on both sides. Has nothing about morals but self-integrity.
The bottom line is you do what is needed to keep your level of livelihood (well-being & financial). Before I started my design firm, I lied and cheated for several bosses to get my paycheck {all mainstream businesses). In the last few years, I have been screwed out of a lot of money by companies that would not pay. I also learned that money is more important than friendships in some cases.
Unlike the adult business, in the mainstream you can?t post on forums that this business didn?t pay or whatever, if you did one big lawsuit would be served. The only website that I work with in the adult-biz, pays me on time and remembers my birthday. And in the short period we put up galleries, we got paid.
What makes me upset is that you have a niche that you promote here. And you state your opinions while exploiting girls due to their family history, IMO, which are pretty and intelligent but chose a way of life and might be short of cash. Call your work soft-porn or ?, I don?t see your work any different than anyone else?s here.
Just my thoughts.
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Originally posted by <IMX>
Moral? Maybe ethical, but morals are a lot more subjective. B/c people will say by its nature porn is immoral according to accepted Judeo-Christian beliefs in the U.S. that is what Assssss would say.
Actually, the primary difference between morality (promoted by religions) and ethics (promoted by philosophical systems) is that morality is about adhering to a code whereas ethics is about making good and logically justifiable decisions. What does that mean? It means that morality is objective and ethics are subjective.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Well, you are what you do. If you are promoting a rape site, that is different from a site devoted to babes. If some moke in Peoria can't make that distinction, I can't help him, but that doesn't mean that there IS no difference.Originally posted by Pornkings
Yep no matter what you are a Porn peddlerSIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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But on the whole and taking the big picture (which one has to do on that scale), we almost certainly helped more than we hurt. Saddam let 400,000 children starve in his own country in the last 10 years while he built cheezy palaces all over the place. So, TRY to remember 400,000 dead children when you lament the 10's of thousands.Originally posted by KRL
Yeh it is. We're debating the morals of porn while at the same time we just got done killing tens of thousands of people and maiming little kids for life in Iraq.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Yes, I know, pain, death, and suffering are always a component and precursor to freedom, liberty and justice.Originally posted by UnseenWorld
But on the whole and taking the big picture (which one has to do on that scale), we almost certainly helped more than we hurt. Saddam let 400,000 children starve in his own country in the last 10 years while he built cheezy palaces all over the place. So, TRY to remember 400,000 dead children when you lament the 10's of thousands.
I think its just a bit surreal to have pornographers discussing the morality of porn when there are so many other bigger things going on right now. If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor
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