ibill no longer process for Canadian webmaster!!! - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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jerryfan2000

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#1

ibill no longer process for Canadian webmaster!!!

04-24-2003, 01:26 PM

Just recieved this from ibill:
Since November 15, 2002, you have been processing via iBill Europe, our subsidiary for all sponsored merchants in the EU region. Although, we have been working diligently with the card associations to establish an IPSP relationship with a financial institution in your region, this effort has been unsuccessful. If you are uncertain about which processing region you are located in, please consult the list of approved processing countries at the bottom of this letter.

As you know, the card associations play a significant role in developing our business model, as well as whom we can service. iBill Europe holds itself and its clients to the highest standards regarding payment processing. Our position within the industry is to be compliant with all card associations and FTC regulations. Therefore, effective May 22, 2003, iBill Europe will only offer Visa credit card payment services to those merchants based in the European Region.

We are truly sorry that iBill Europe will no longer be able to accommodate your VISA processing needs. We will continue to process MasterCard, Web900 and Checks for you. For more information, please contact your iBill account manager or our client service team at 866.424.5557(US) or 954-363-4931(International).

So my question is: Is this a new regulation which will affect all billing companies such as acpay, multicards ... etc? If so, does that mean web master in Canada will no longer be able to process online billing until someone opens up a new processor in Canada???
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Kimmykim

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#2

04-24-2003, 01:29 PM

I would say that it's one more case of cross border regulations being followed and that Visa is going to get their way.

Unfortunately there are no banks in Canada that qualify to take high risk that want to do so, making the choice for Canadians pretty tight -- either open a US corp or a Euro corp.
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#3

04-24-2003, 01:30 PM

YOUR INFORMATION HERE
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jerryfan2000

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#4

04-24-2003, 01:34 PM

is this really a new regulation imposed by Visa international or it is just a case imposed by Ibill??
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hershie

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#5

04-24-2003, 01:36 PM

I am a Canadian using IBill now, so am looking for an alternative. I wonder if ProBilling, who I am looking at now for Visa processing, will shortly be reigned in just like IBill has since they are processing for Canadians through a European bank?

Anyone care to comment?
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#6

04-24-2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by jerryfan2000
is this really a new regulation imposed by Visa international or it is just a case imposed by Ibill??

Visa-- from what I understand..
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Kimmykim

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#7

04-24-2003, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by jerryfan2000
is this really a new regulation imposed by Visa international or it is just a case imposed by Ibill??

This is not a NEW regulation at all. Visa's been actively working to enforce the existing rules about cross border acquisition for some time now on both the US and the International levels.

I believe you will see it get much tighter before it loosens up.

And really there's nothing wrong with that, it should be a level playing field and processors should have to compete on rates and services offered -- it is the best thing for the site owners.
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04-24-2003, 01:43 PM

Welcome to last week.

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#9

04-24-2003, 01:46 PM

I would say that it's one more case of cross border regulations being followed and that Visa is going to get their way.

mmm... i wonder if this is the precursor to other smackdown actions against processors/aggregators who have been skirting VISA's cross-border rules... is GloBill's "loophole" about to be closed, just to name one example that would affect many here..?

...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..
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directfiesta

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#10

04-24-2003, 01:54 PM

LOL... I complained in october to the Fed.Gov ( What about free trade). I got an answer last week!!! It is in french, but can be understood. After all, I pay fucking taxes like hell!

They still use Word Perfect, so formatting is shit:

April 17, 2003

EBS-0085

Monsieur Pxxxx Dxxxx
[email protected]

Monsieur,

J?ai bien reçu votre courrier électronique du 7 octobre 2002 au sujet de nouvelles procédures instaurées par VISA USA pour le traitement de transactions des sociétés non-situées aux
États-Unis. J?ai pris bonne note de vos préoccupations. Veuillez m?excuser de n?avoir pu répondre plus tôt.

Comme cette question relève de la compétence du ministre des Finances, j?ai acheminé votre courrier électronique à ma collègue Diane Lafleur, Chef principal, Planification et coordination stratégiques, Finances Canada, pour qu?elle puisse y accorder toute l?attention désirée.

Je vous prie d?agréer, Monsieur, l?expression de mes sentiments les meilleurs.

Paul Robertson
Directeur
Direction de la politique commerciale sur les services (EBS)
Ministère des Affaires étrangères et du Commerce international
125, promenade Sussex
Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0G2
Tel./Tél. (613)944-2034; fax/téléc. (613) 944-0058
[email protected]

c.c. Diane Lafleur
Chef principal, Planification et coordination stratégiques
Finances Canada

Now, you can go with " grey zone" guys, or do what I did: a US corp and presence ( click the sig and you are on your way).

But don't do what I did by continuing with Ibill unless you have a lot of rebills. Change to CCbill, Epoch or another topguy. Ibill is not anymore a top biller.

Last edited by directfiesta; 04-24-2003, 01:57 PM.

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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Nosmo King

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#11

04-24-2003, 01:56 PM

I signed up with Glo-bill a few weeks ago. And although I am not in Canada, I know of a number of Canadians using Glo-bill without any problems to date. So far, my own experience with Glo has been awesome so far. Great service.

Who knows what the future will bring as far as Visa USA, Visa International, Visa Solar System or whoever is concerned. Neither the fear-mongers nor the cheerleaders can predict with 100% certainty. All we know is that there are a handful of processors, globill, verotel, globosale (?) who are in different regions of the world and can handle Canucks and others without an issue TODAY. If tomorrow the other Visa orgs change their rules to encompass these other processors then so be it. Deal with it then. Or maybe these and other processors will be clever and come up with more programs like ePassporte/Stormpay and manage to continue to deal with international webbies, thus keeping everyone happy.

And didn't iBill already cut off Canuck webbies several weeks ago? They only sent you an email now? Hopefully they at least send u your $ but I doubt it!

Last edited by Nosmo King; 04-24-2003, 02:00 PM.
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jerryfan2000

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#12

04-24-2003, 01:57 PM

I can't read French. Can you breifly translate what it says? Thanks
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directfiesta

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#13

04-24-2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by jerryfan2000
I can't read French. Can you breifly translate what it says? Thanks

It took 6 months for them to tell me:

- They took notice of my preocupations

- It is the juridiction of the Finance Minister

- They are forwarding my letter to Diane Lafleur

Basically, they could have said to me : GFY

Would have been funnier....

DO the US corp or you WILL be fucked. I use Globill also as 2nd, but I expect that it will stop soon....

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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04-24-2003, 02:03 PM

uh oh.

Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site?

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jerryfan2000

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#15

04-24-2003, 02:34 PM

so far I only heard this change from ibill. I am also using multicard but have not heard any of this from them to date. If this is an internation change, how come only ibill is doing this at this moment? When the announcement of ISIP regulation came out, ibill ccbill and epoch were acting at the same day. But so far, only ibill is acting in this way.........
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#16

04-24-2003, 08:18 PM

bump

This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!

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gruffy

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#17

04-24-2003, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by directfiesta

DO the US corp or you WILL be fucked. I use Globill also as 2nd, but I expect that it will stop soon....

I thought they made it very clear foriegners incorporating in the US for these purposes will not be accepted?

ie, you must have a REAL office and established prescense (ie bank accounts and tax returns).

Or did they go loose on that?

Sounds like fun with the IRS and the CCRA.

Last edited by gruffy; 04-24-2003, 08:31 PM.
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twistyneck

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#18

04-24-2003, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by jerryfan2000
I can't read French. Can you breifly translate what it says? Thanks

It just says something about surrendering.
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#19

04-24-2003, 08:47 PM

I get my checks in the mail. Cashed one today in fact

50% off the first 2 months hosting. Email be for a quote [email protected] We can supply up to 8 TB transfer.
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#20

04-24-2003, 08:48 PM

fuck why they do that..... isn't it in their interest to have more people who make them money ?
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hershie

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#21

04-24-2003, 09:19 PM

So does anyone want to hazard a guess if the other IPSP's (Glo-bill, Probilling...) will be forced to walk the same line as IBill with regards to Canadian accounts in short order?
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#22

04-24-2003, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by hershie
So does anyone want to hazard a guess if the other IPSP's (Glo-bill, Probilling...) will be forced to walk the same line as IBill with regards to Canadian accounts in short order?

Except for the one or two IPSP's that are somehow classed as ticket master setups I would imagine this will soon be the case.

IPSP's that are not adopting this policy are probably dealing with different banks that have just not yet imposed the rules.

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directfiesta

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#23

04-24-2003, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by gruffy

I thought they made it very clear foriegners incorporating in the US for these purposes will not be accepted?

ie, you must have a REAL office and established prescense (ie bank accounts and tax returns).

Or did they go loose on that?

Sounds like fun with the IRS and the CCRA.

It could come to a point that you need "an officer" in the US. But at this point, all you need is:

- The corporation ( Delaware or Nevada is best)

- A EIN number from the IRS ( US taxpayer Identification Number)

- Preferably a US bank account ( I use TD Waterhouse ) to pay the state annual fees and get your payments deposited in.

- A US incorporation registrar to fill for you the annual declaration. Also, they can help if you have a problem ( they are lawyers and accountants, so you paty but get things resolved).

The money to pay this:

Start up: about 450.00 for the corp and paperwork, then about 200.00 a year to keep corp active.
Visa registration fee as you know:$ 750.00

I have a female friend ( pornstar ) that could at one point be the US officer and respondant if needed.

Why in the hell can't we get a fucking bank ihere to process fucking credit cards. I really dont get it ( as you see, I even complained to the Fed Gov...)

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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#24

04-24-2003, 09:43 PM

cayman islands is the answer!
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quiet

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#25

04-24-2003, 09:44 PM

retirement is the answer.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
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WendyB

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#26

04-24-2003, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by directfiesta

It could come to a point that you need "an officer" in the US. But at this point, all you need is:

- The corporation ( Delaware or Nevada is best)

- A EIN number from the IRS ( US taxpayer Identification Number)

- Preferably a US bank account ( I use TD Waterhouse ) to pay the state annual fees and get your payments deposited in.

- A US incorporation registrar to fill for you the annual declaration. Also, they can help if you have a problem ( they are lawyers and accountants, so you paty but get things resolved).

The money to pay this:

Start up: about 450.00 for the corp and paperwork, then about 200.00 a year to keep corp active.
Visa registration fee as you know:$ 750.00

I have a female friend ( pornstar ) that could at one point be the US officer and respondant if needed.

Why in the hell can't we get a fucking bank ihere to process fucking credit cards. I really dont get it ( as you see, I even complained to the Fed Gov...)

This is a situation/discussion, as I recall, that was predicted this past fall.

The formation of a U.S. Corporation is simply not enough to pass the test, that Visa and other credit card issuers use to determine a company's business location.

Additionally, the card company will and does want to know about the business principals, including their location.

In my opinion, back in November, many of those web site owners who disclosed to VISA their location outside of the USA, in reality may have shot themselves in the foot.

Maybe they were naive, or simply not farsighted enough to see the writing on the wall.

Now back to the current corporation formation issue. If you are a foreign national, and choose to incorporate... there are additional elements you must put in place, to make this a successful workaround for the Visa issue. Corporate Presence is the KEY!
This means your company will need a business address, telephone number listed in company name, which is answered during normal business hours. Yes, there is the EIN/tax ID, business license, and local banking account.

The state of Nevada is a corporate haven...PERIOD.

You as a foreign website owner would greatly benefit from being able to use "contract corporate officers" who are U.S. Citizens.
These are the people who, for a fee, will appear as the visible officers of your corporation. Just having the contract officers will open doors for you, accomplishing almost overnight, what you would never be able to do.

This is a serious and professional arrangement. It is imperative that you choose the contract officers carefully. The use of a "friend" or "porn star" in this capacity, might not be the brightest idea at the table.

I took the liberty of looking up a couple of past threads on this matter:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=wendyb

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=wendyb

In reality, the dollar amount to properly achieve a viable US business presence, is in the neighborhood of US$3000 to start. The monthly fees for telephone & "office presence" would be in the neighborhood of US$200.00 monthly.

There are a couple of VoIP solutons that would give you a local Las Vegas telephone service. If you need help with this, contact me and I will point you to the same people who set my corporation presence up.

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Mutt

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#27

04-25-2003, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by Shoplifter

Except for the one or two IPSP's that are somehow classed as ticket master setups I would imagine this will soon be the case.

IPSP's that are not adopting this policy are probably dealing with different banks that have just not yet imposed the rules.

i've never heard the term 'ticket master'. What does it mean?

If it means what ACPay is doing, that dog ain't gonna hunt for long.

Hershie, you will need to set up a U.S. corp and presence, all Canadians will - Globill and the others can't hide from VISA forever. Once u have that done, better for you as a content seller to get a merchant account - half the fees of a third party processor.

If they're looking at AVS systems it means they are looking at everything in this industry.

I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!
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quiet

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#28

04-25-2003, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by Mutt

i've never heard the term 'ticket master'. What does it mean?

If it means what ACPay is doing, that dog ain't gonna hunt for long.

Hershie, you will need to set up a U.S. corp and presence, all Canadians will - Globill and the others can't hide from VISA forever. Once u have that done, better for you as a content seller to get a merchant account - half the fees of a third party processor.

If they're looking at AVS systems it means they are looking at everything in this industry.

you can also set yourself up as a E.U. company.

anyway, this entire thing is seriously old news. it's just that they are finally beginning to enforce the rules.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
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L0stMind

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#29

04-25-2003, 12:32 AM

out of curiousity, why would you go thru the trouble of creating a US presence if you went and got your own merchant account to process with?

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#30

04-25-2003, 12:36 AM

why isnt there a bank is a shitty country like Canada than can process online and so called high risk transactions ???

They love American $$ that comes in from sale of BC bud but not porn money ??? hmmm

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WendyB

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#31

04-25-2003, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by L0stMind
out of curiousity, why would you go thru the trouble of creating a US presence if you went and got your own merchant account to process with?

Most traditional merchant account programs that I am aware of, prohibit the use of those accounts in high risk environments. Often they will have limits on the percentage of transactions where a card has not swiped (in person).

It is unlikely that a small to medium size "High Risk" adult webmaster would be able to keep that account when chargebacks start coming in.

The iBill's of the world, like them or not are better able to manage the high risk transactions. Additionally, because of the high dollar amounts of their daily transactions, places them in a better position to lobby the card companies.

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advrice

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#32

04-25-2003, 01:29 AM

Ibill problems with their European bank.... I called Verotel to see if they were dealing with the same issues and they claim they're not. I wouldn't be surprised if this so-called "ticket master" counts for them....

<a href="http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/make_link.verotel?verotel_id=9804000000379312">
<img border=0 src="http://www.verotel.com/gfx/button.gif"></a>
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WendyB

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#33

04-25-2003, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by advrice
Ibill problems with their European bank.... I called Verotel to see if they were dealing with the same issues and they claim they're not. I wouldn't be surprised if this so-called "ticket master" counts for them....

I too am very curious to see how this all plays out.

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directfiesta

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#34

04-25-2003, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by WendyB

This is a situation/discussion, as I recall, that was predicted this past fall.

The formation of a U.S. Corporation is simply not enough to pass the test, that Visa and other credit card issuers use to determine a company's business location.

Additionally, the card company will and does want to know about the business principals, including their location.

In my opinion, back in November, many of those web site owners who disclosed to VISA their location outside of the USA, in reality may have shot themselves in the foot.

Maybe they were naive, or simply not farsighted enough to see the writing on the wall.

Now back to the current corporation formation issue. If you are a foreign national, and choose to incorporate... there are additional elements you must put in place, to make this a successful workaround for the Visa issue. Corporate Presence is the KEY!
This means your company will need a business address, telephone number listed in company name, which is answered during normal business hours. Yes, there is the EIN/tax ID, business license, and local banking account.

The state of Nevada is a corporate haven...PERIOD.

You as a foreign website owner would greatly benefit from being able to use "contract corporate officers" who are U.S. Citizens.
These are the people who, for a fee, will appear as the visible officers of your corporation. Just having the contract officers will open doors for you, accomplishing almost overnight, what you would never be able to do.

This is a serious and professional arrangement. It is imperative that you choose the contract officers carefully. The use of a "friend" or "porn star" in this capacity, might not be the brightest idea at the table.

I took the liberty of looking up a couple of past threads on this matter:

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=wendyb

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=wendyb

In reality, the dollar amount to properly achieve a viable US business presence, is in the neighborhood of US$3000 to start. The monthly fees for telephone & "office presence" would be in the neighborhood of US$200.00 monthly.

There are a couple of VoIP solutons that would give you a local Las Vegas telephone service. If you need help with this, contact me and I will point you to the same people who set my corporation presence up.

You are right on the above. I had just explained , as stated, the first step; I also opened the door to the future problem. You can go with " paid officers" in Nevada, but I wonder how long will Visa accept that. This solution also defeats the goals that Visa is establishing.

On the other hand, if you have a real american " associate" that is involved in the busibness, I doubt that Visa can refuse this.

Time will show what will happen, but nothing good is coming....

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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WendyB

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#35

04-25-2003, 08:52 AM

Fortunately for you and I, if Visa wants to operate in the State of Nevada, they must abide by Nevada state law. The allowed use of contract officers for Nevada corporations has been on the books since 1958.

I still stand by my position, it is best to employ a law firm, who specializes in corporation formation and corporation presence business packages. Remember it is in their best interest to stay ahead of the game, because this is their bread and butter.

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Mutt

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#36

04-25-2003, 09:23 AM

for the Canucks who set up U.S. corps when this went down months ago, how complicated did this make doing your taxes this year? How did u avoid double taxation issues?

out of curiousity, why would you go thru the trouble of creating a US presence if you went and got your own merchant account to process with?

VERY hard to get a merchant account as a Canadian in the United States. Should be no problem if you've set up a legitimate U.S. corp that satisfies VISA's rules.

I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!
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#37

04-25-2003, 09:26 AM

Have you tried glo-bill?
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SleazyDream

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#38

04-25-2003, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by quiet
retirement is the answer.

may is a lot sooner than oct

This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!

Now read without the word dog.
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#39

04-25-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by Mutt

out of curiousity, why would you go thru the trouble of creating a US presence if you went and got your own merchant account to process with?

VERY hard to get a merchant account as a Canadian in the United States. Should be no problem if you've set up a legitimate U.S. corp that satisfies VISA's rules.

Dear Mutt,

You ask some good questions. For the purpose of this discussion, a Nevada corporation itself is a US corporation, therefore the corporation would typically, not be subject to Canadian taxation.

Another attractive provision in Nevada law, which recognizes the shareholders, and not corporate officers, as the actual corporation owners. Under Nevada law, corporations are not obligated to disclose the name of shareholders. Yes, your US corporation is obligated to file a US tax return, however it is your decision if you do or do not inform others of your actual ownership.

In regards to a US corporation establishing their own merchant account. Your observation is true, however those engaged primarily in "high risk" transactions would have a tremendously difficult time obtaining an account for those purposes.

An act of kindness is a wonderful gift
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Nosmo King

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#40

04-25-2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by arial
Have you tried glo-bill?

There are a number of Canadians using glo-bill that I know of. Also Verotel. I use Glo-bill but am not a Canuck! I don't think either of these companies are "hiding" based on my research into the whole IPSP thing vs other merchant structures and Visa International. Both their banks and Visa obviously know who they are, what they are doing, etc. etc.

I would suggest using either Verotel or Globill and if somewhere down the road the rules change for them, THEN set up a corporation in the US or europe, depending on the case. Otherwise it might be an expense for nothing. And as others have mentioned in this threads, you would need more than corporate papers. Technically you are supposed to need one employee, real office space and all that crap. And maybe soon Visa will demand that you have a pantomine horse as well (Monty Python reference)
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#41

04-25-2003, 12:09 PM

In the past, all a Canadian needed for a U.S. merchant account, was a presence in the U.S. (U.S. mailing address & checking account). That's not the case any more. W/ the new cross boarder regs, the principal / signer of the merchant account application must be a U.S. citizen w/ a U.S. ss#

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susanna

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#42

04-25-2003, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim
I would say that it's one more case of cross border regulations being followed and that Visa is going to get their way.

Unfortunately there are no banks in Canada that qualify to take high risk that want to do so, making the choice for Canadians pretty tight -- either open a US corp or a Euro corp.

OR use Globill

Susanna
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WendyB

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#43

04-25-2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Nosmo King

Technically you are supposed to need one employee...

There is no law which reqires a Nevada corporation to have "employees".

The minimum requirment is one corporate officer, one director, and each corporation must maintain a registered agent within the state of Nevada. By the way, a single person can be appointed by the shareholders for that purpose(s).

A foreign national (non US citizen) is allowed to own a business/corporation, however they may not "work" for the business.

An act of kindness is a wonderful gift
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Nosmo King

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#44

04-25-2003, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by WendyB

There is no law which reqires a Nevada corporation to have "employees".

The minimum requirment is one corporate officer, one director, and each corporation must maintain a registered agent within the state of Nevada. By the way, a single person can be appointed by the shareholders for that purpose(s).

A foreign national (non US citizen) is allowed to own a business/corporation, however they may not "work" for the business.

I was not referring to Nevada law. I was referring to the requirements that Visa USA had put out. They spelled out what each sub-merchant under each IPSP in the US needed. They stated that physical office, not a PO Box, "...with at least one full-time employee" was needed. I got that from searching the old posts right here on GFY from the billing companies, circa Oct 2002. Of course most foreign webmasters who created a "US presence" probably don't have all that and I am sure the billing companies are turning a blind eye to this requirement as well. But if Visa USA ever decided to fully enforce the letter of the law, then they could clamp down on those webmasters and billing companies. So I don't think you are 100% safe by simply opening a nevada corp or any other state corp unless you go all the way.

On the whole I still think this is all a conservative republican plot! Visa is scratching their back to get favorable bankruptcy laws!

Last edited by Nosmo King; 04-25-2003, 02:32 PM.
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The Click

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#45

04-26-2003, 04:22 PM

see sig

no more worries Canada - no visa fees!

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Mortimer

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#46

04-26-2003, 04:39 PM

WendyB: You seem to know a bit about this all, so I wanted to have your opinion about Delaware corporations. Are there any drawbacks in setting up in Delaware vs Nevada? Why do you prefer Nevada?

Thanks for the help...

The wiseman owns little but knows much, while the fool knows little but owns much
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jerryfan2000

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#47

05-02-2003, 01:07 PM

i also called AC pay and ginix.com. They all sayd that they can process Canadian billing. And so far, only ibill is saying this.
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DomFromParis

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#48

11-02-2003, 10:20 AM

French processors can accept canadians and any other countries for visa and mastercard.

When some european processors are not allowed anymore to do so ...

http://www.maxilive.com
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xdcdave

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#49

11-02-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by danfromparis
French processors can accept canadians and any other countries for visa and mastercard.

When some european processors are not allowed anymore to do so ...

way to bump a 6 month old thread!
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doober

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#50

11-02-2003, 10:25 AM

whats a fench processor?

your sig?
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