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SandraWang

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#1

Windows vs. Unix on Servers

04-18-2003, 04:22 PM

I just got a dedicated server at ISPrime, and because I was told Windows Media was the best quality for streaming videos and live camshows, I had to buy a Windows licence to this server.

I've always used Unix before, and now it turns out to be problems because I have Windows and not Unix on my server.
.htacces won't work, problems with FTP, and some other shit...

Alot of people tell me I should have chosen Unix instead, have I thrown $1000 out the window for this licence??

ISPrime tell me 95% of their clients use Unix, so I think I would feel more relaxed if I had a OS that the support staff had best experience with, to avoid more problems.

Anyone here run Windows on their webserver, please tell me how this has worked out for you. What are the benefits for using Windows compared to Unix?

And if I decide to go back to Unix, what should I use to get the best possible streaming quality for vide and live webcam?

Hope to get some advices what OS would be best for me in the long run, for a growing amateur website.

I want it to run as smooth as possible - So Windows or Unix??

- Fuck look I even get a popup box asking for username and password when I try to enter my website domain, www.sandrawang.com ... And also in this thread because of my banner...! GAH

Last edited by SandraWang; 04-18-2003, 04:27 PM.

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#2

04-18-2003, 04:24 PM

your post is bringing up a login dialog to your site..?

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-=HOAX=-

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#3

04-18-2003, 04:24 PM

Can I have the pasword to see your sig?

Insert Value Here.
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SandraWang

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#4

04-18-2003, 04:27 PM

Damn, I'll just remove my whole sig then... This started happening after I found out .htaccess didn't work, and a temporary security system was set up in meantime 'till I get all this sorted out.

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#5

04-18-2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by -=HOAX=-
Can I have the pasword to see your sig?

I would recommend Unix. I dont know much about the techincal stuff, but I had fewer security and techincal issues... Its just not as user friendly.

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SandraWang

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#6

04-18-2003, 04:32 PM

I would recommend Unix. I dont know much about the techincal stuff, but I had fewer security and techincal issues... Its just not as user friendly. [/B]

Thats just what I have started thinking too... Maybe best to get rid og this Windows stuff right now, instead of regreting in 6 months or so... But the sad thing, my host tells me they put alot of work into get my server up with windows, so they would prefer if I didn't asked them to remove it and reinstall with Unix.. :/

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#7

04-18-2003, 04:34 PM

I am an ASP programmer so I would have to say Windows. I use to have Unix back when I was programming CGI but I can run everything on NT so I switched. I like it and have been on one for 5 years now.

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#8

04-18-2003, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by SandraWang

Thats just what I have started thinking too... Maybe best to get rid og this Windows stuff right now, instead of regreting in 6 months or so... But the sad thing, my host tells me they put alot of work into get my server up with windows, so they would prefer if I didn't asked them to remove it and reinstall with Unix.. :/

Get unix NOW don't wait.....you will shoot yourself in the foot
Trust me on this one don't feel sorry for your ISP you pay them
to provide that service. Take my word for it don't wait.

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#9

04-18-2003, 04:40 PM

IMHO, run your webservers on FreeBSD (Unix) Apache, and your streaming servers with Win. There are not too many (if any real) streaming options on Unix Boxes that I know of. We run several Win Boxes for streaming and keep all of the webserver stuff on Free BSD. The win boxes are a constant pain with all of the patches, etc., but until we see a good Unix based streaming option we are stuck with Win Boxes . . .
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SandraWang

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#10

04-18-2003, 04:46 PM

Thanks for the advices so far...

NBDesign: Thank you, I have already talked to CCBill regarding this matter, and they have been very helpful, thay have set up a temporary security solution for my site now, but as you see, something has went wrong, since I can't even enter my free area without getting username and password request... Have sent them an email about it, waiting for answer...

DynaSpain: Yes, I think you are right on that one, I know I have paid for the servicea nd all, but I do feel alittle bad because when I try to tell them I want to switch to Unix, they repeat that they did alot of work to get the windows set up... But business is business, so I know I just gotta do what I need to get it fixed....
Now I'm nervous just thinking of all the problems that will probably follow if I stick with win...

Plugger: I didn't know I could have Unix webserver, and a separate server for streaming Windows Media... This must be very expensive?? Maybe you can recommend an affordable and good solution for Win media streaming?

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#11

04-18-2003, 04:46 PM

FreeBSD all the way and actually 4.7 rather 5.0. We have seen some strange problems with 5.0 but 4.7 is very stable and is the choice for OS if you use movies.
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SandraWang

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#12

04-18-2003, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by x3m
FreeBSD all the way and actually 4.7 rather 5.0. We have seen some strange problems with 5.0 but 4.7 is very stable and is the choice for OS if you use movies.

Good to know... What type of streaming would you recommend? I guess it wil be RealMedia then?

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#13

04-18-2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by SandraWang
Thanks for the advices so far...

Plugger: I didn't know I could have Unix webserver, and a separate server for streaming Windows Media... This must be very expensive?? Maybe you can recommend an affordable and good solution for Win media streaming?

I guess it is all relative, but with the cost of servers dropping, you should be able to set up a reasonable webserver or streaming server for under $1400 or less a box (PIV 2.4GHz or higher, 500MB RAM). We have some older boxes and pump out 30MB/sec during live shows, so IMHO you do not need to spend a fortune on streaming servers.

You might want to check out www.amateurcamhouse.com or www.camgirlhouse.com . . .
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#14

04-18-2003, 05:19 PM

Plugger, hmm isn't there some way to stream my videoclips and live webcam inside my members area without having to lease a media server at $1400 a month (or was that a one-time fee + bandwith?). Since I now pay a monthly fee for my dedicated webserver, it might cost more than I can afford right now :/

I am not interested in working for more camsystems, what I am looking for, is a good quality stream of my own camshows and videos exclusively for my own members...

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#15

04-18-2003, 05:26 PM

W2K makes an excellent webserver. It's easy as fuck to use, and stable as hell. IIS is faster than Apache for dynamic pages. Just keep security up to date (like you would on a *nix box) and everything will work fine. But, since it sounds like you have no clue whatsoever about W2K, stick with *nix. They both work fine, so just use what you know. You don't know W2K.
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SandraWang

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#16

04-18-2003, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by Juan
W2K makes an excellent webserver. It's easy as fuck to use, and stable as hell. IIS is faster than Apache for dynamic pages. Just keep security up to date (like you would on a *nix box) and everything will work fine. But, since it sounds like you have no clue whatsoever about W2K, stick with *nix. They both work fine, so just use what you know. You don't know W2K.

Yup agreed...

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SandraWang

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#17

04-18-2003, 05:36 PM

Hmmm someone just told me it was possible to stream .wmv files on a Unix box?? Is it? If so, why did I have to get that windows licence?

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#18

04-18-2003, 05:38 PM

Windows is scary insecure. Get a *nix box.

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#19

04-18-2003, 05:44 PM

Ok I think I have got enough advices to go back to Unix now, only thing I then need to know is this: Is it possible to run .wmv live streams from my cam on a Unix box? Or stream .wmv videoclips?

or is it absolutely a must to get a dedicated media server for that part?

Or maybe there is some hosting deals, where I don't need a dedicated, just rent space for the streams in some way... And that also have good protection of my clips, they are not supposed to e downloaded, just streamed

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#20

04-18-2003, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by gothweb
Windows is scary insecure.

That's true. If you don't know what you're doing on *nix, it's also scary insecure. Neither one is secure out of the box.
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#21

04-18-2003, 06:00 PM

I'm not going to sit here and argue which is better...

I have used Windows for years and it's the only Server OS I will use...

If you need any help with your box, let me know...and I will give ya a hand.
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#22

04-18-2003, 06:01 PM

.NET 2003 is pretty secure out of the box, or at least all the betas I've ran for the last 2 years. When first installed, everything is locked down pretty well.
I posted my IP info for a server at home I had it running on at a few hacker sites and asked for attacks and nothing ever got in.
Although I might just be lucky.
I never used htaccess on it, just stuff in the IIS
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#23

04-18-2003, 06:03 PM

I am a MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) and I use *.nix. The only people who really think Windows is a decent platform are ASP programmers, mssql DB guys, and corporate network admins. Those of us in the real world know that MS sucks shit and probably always will. Save yourself a lot of headaches and switch while you still have a business left.

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#24

04-18-2003, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by MattO
.NET 2003 is pretty secure out of the box, or at least all the betas I've ran for the last 2 years. When first installed, everything is locked down pretty well.
I posted my IP info for a server at home I had it running on at a few hacker sites and asked for attacks and nothing ever got in.
Although I might just be lucky.
I never used htaccess on it, just stuff in the IIS

Matt...good to know there is someone else as pumped about 2003 as I have been...

When you posted in one of my other threads about also using Windows 2003 Beta, I really thought you were fuckin with me.

Windows Server 2003 is very well secured from what I have seen.
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#25

04-18-2003, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered
I am a MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) and I use *.nix. The only people who really think Windows is a decent platform are ASP programmers, mssql DB guys, and corporate network admins. Those of us in the real world know that MS sucks shit and probably always will. Save yourself a lot of headaches and switch while you still have a business left.

Did you get your cert with W2k or NT?
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#26

04-18-2003, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered
I am a MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) and I use *.nix. The only people who really think Windows is a decent platform are ASP programmers, mssql DB guys, and corporate network admins. Those of us in the real world know that MS sucks shit and probably always will. Save yourself a lot of headaches and switch while you still have a business left.

Care if I look up your certification at the MS site?

Just curious if you were certified under NT or 2K.

If NT....Well Duh...NT sucks and always has. Its like 10 years old.
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#27

04-18-2003, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered
I am a MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) and I use *.nix. The only people who really think Windows is a decent platform are ASP programmers, mssql DB guys, and corporate network admins. Those of us in the real world know that MS sucks shit and probably always will. Save yourself a lot of headaches and switch while you still have a business left.

Oh, right... what do programmers, database guys, and admins know? That was a funny post. You deserve a cookie.
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#28

04-18-2003, 06:10 PM

I got my NT4 MCSE. No need to continue on with the torture that is MS. You kids want to continue to run your sites on microsoft servers? Have at it. We all know what the superior platform is. I have spent a long time doing server administration and programming so I am not talking out of my ass here.

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#29

04-18-2003, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered
I got my NT4 MCSE. No need to continue on with the torture that is MS. You kids want to continue to run your sites on microsoft servers? Have at it. We all know what the superior platform is. I have spent a long time doing server administration and programming so I am not talking out of my ass here.
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#30

04-18-2003, 06:15 PM

I will admit that for a desktop, MS is hard to beat (shut up Mac guys, this doesn't concern you). The server arena belongs to *.nix. If you want to run a MS server, you're better off just burning your website to a disc and snail mailing it to your customers.

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#31

04-18-2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Juan

Oh, right... what do programmers, database guys, and admins know? That was a funny post. You deserve a cookie.

ASP programmers != programmers in general (they're like php programmers)
mssql database guys != database guys in general (mssql sucks when compared to, say, oracle)
corporate network admins... well, I won't go into detail about most corporate networks...

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#32

04-18-2003, 06:17 PM

Which high traffic sites are running MS servers?

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lEricPl

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#33

04-18-2003, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered
I will admit that for a desktop, MS is hard to beat (shut up Mac guys, this doesn't concern you). The server arena belongs to *.nix. If you want to run a MS server, you're better off just burning your website to a disc and snail mailing it to your customers.

You are still stuck on NT man...

Have you used a W2K box?

A w2k box that is locked down tight?

It fucking rocks...

Now, put an admin who does not follow MS recomendations and you get a fucked up server.
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#34

04-18-2003, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by FATPad
Which high traffic sites are running MS servers?

gofuckyourself.com
microsoft.com
dell.com
ebay.com
nasdaq.com
match.com

Just to name a few...

Wanna test some more?

http://ealabs.com/webservices.aspx

Check out EANet...

Last edited by lEricPl; 04-18-2003, 06:26 PM.
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#35

04-18-2003, 06:26 PM

I have to ask again, is it possible to stream a .wmv videoclip or live camshow on a *nix box?

If not, what format would you recommend to use on a *nix box?
It must be descent quality....

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#36

04-18-2003, 06:27 PM

ebay.com

is eBay still running 'Zeus Web-Server these days? i thought a couple of years ago they were running Zeus on top of Solaris, have they switched to M$ across the board..?

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#37

04-18-2003, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by chupacabra

is eBay still running 'Zeus Web-Server these days? i thought a couple of years ago they were running Zeus on top of Solaris, have they switched to M$ across the board..?

I think ebay is still on NT!

Microsoft-IIS/4.0

That's very suprising...

http://ealabs.com/studio/services/xm...=GetServerType

NT sucks ass.
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chupacabra

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#38

04-18-2003, 06:29 PM

If not, what format would you recommend to use on a *nix box?

well, you could always go the .RM (realmedia) route, but personally i think the format is garbage... i really like the .Wmv format, but i allow files to be downloaded on our sites, and everyone of those sites is run on *BSD boxes w/ Apache or Zeus... personally, i really don't like running Paysites on M$ platforms. if you must have streaming M$ media, you are quite possibly stuck..

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#39

04-18-2003, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by lEricPl

You are still stuck on NT man...

Have you used a W2K box?

A w2k box that is locked down tight?

It fucking rocks...

Now, put an admin who does not follow MS recomendations and you get a fucked up server.

Yes great servers for corperate websites with little to medium
traffic. And for people who actually believe rebooting a server
twice every day isn't something that is not right.

If you've ever been into a datacenter of a serious ISP and
you count boxes by OS I can guarantee you 95% will be unix.
Do you really believe they use 95% unix because WIN is so
much better. Hell even Microsoft is running FTP servers on unix.

If you want to talk secure there is 1 OS that you can use
to speak about and it's called OpenBSD. Because Microsoft
runs fine on your desktop doesn't make a good server......it's
just NOT sorry to bring this news to you.

Then somebody mentioned IIS faster than apache you're right
about that. Now let's compare it to a Zeus webserver and
what will be your answer then? Are you going to lie now or just
admit that I'm right here?

Anyway I'm not trying to convince you to make a switch. I only
present you cold hard facts. If MS is the best for you by all means
stick with it.

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#40

04-18-2003, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by DynaSpain

Yes great servers for corperate websites with little to medium
traffic. And for people who actually believe rebooting a server
twice every day isn't something that is not right.

If you've ever been into a datacenter of a serious ISP and
you count boxes by OS I can guarantee you 95% will be unix.
Do you really believe they use 95% unix because WIN is so
much better. Hell even Microsoft is running FTP servers on unix.

If you want to talk secure there is 1 OS that you can use
to speak about and it's called OpenBSD. Because Microsoft
runs fine on your desktop doesn't make a good server......it's
just NOT sorry to bring this news to you.

Then somebody mentioned IIS faster than apache you're right
about that. Now let's compare it to a Zeus webserver and
what will be your answer then? Are you going to lie now or just
admit that I'm right here?

Anyway I'm not trying to convince you to make a switch. I only
present you cold hard facts. If MS is the best for you by all means
stick with it.

DynaMite

Well,

I guess it's good enough for:

gofuckyourself.com
dell.com
ebay.com
nasdaq.com
match.com

Now, if admin actually knew what they were doing, the site would be just as smooth as the above sites.
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#41

04-18-2003, 06:39 PM

I seriously think the reason why so many people use Unix is becuse of the bad impression Windows NT made.

NT was basically a very bad Beta for Windows 2000.
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#42

04-18-2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by chupacabra

well, you could always go the .RM (realmedia) route, but personally i think the format is garbage... i really like the .Wmv format, but i allow files to be downloaded on our sites, and everyone of those sites is run on *BSD boxes w/ Apache or Zeus... personally, i really don't like running Paysites on M$ platforms. if you must have streaming M$ media, you are quite possibly stuck..

Oh noo I don't know what to do... I want to go back to run a Unix box after reading all this, but the reason I got myself a dedicated was to be able to stream my camshows live, and my videoclips. But averyone tells me that anything but .wmv sux?

Since I run an amateur site, the members might not require the best possible quality, since it's "home-made" porn and all. Is the .rm really that bad? I don't think i absolutely MUST have .wmv, as long as I get something that works, and the quality is decent... Both for webcam and videoclips. If there is no way to lock other formats than .wmv from downloading, then I don't need any stream of these clips anyway, I'll just let them download it all...

--> I can put downloadable .wmv clips on a Unix server right, just not stream them? But what about my streaming webcam, what solution would I use for that on a Unix box?

Someone also told me that it was possible to stream .wmv files on a Unix server, but I haven't got any confirmations that this is correct, and if so how I do that.

Last edited by SandraWang; 04-18-2003, 06:46 PM.

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#43

04-18-2003, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by lEricPl

Well,

I guess it's good enough for:

gofuckyourself.com
dell.com
ebay.com
nasdaq.com
match.com

Now, if admin actually knew what they were doing, the site would be just as smooth as the above sites.

You don't grasp it now do you? of course with 3 times the amount
of servers and 4 times as much admin time you can accomplish
the same. sites above except for GFY use Microsoft server
because of lucrative contracts.......not because it's better.

I'm not sucking this out of my ass these are facts.....go ahead
search for it and present me proof that I'm not right.

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#44

04-18-2003, 06:52 PM

WMV on a unix box will appear "streaming", however it is really just progressive download... it plays as it downloads. A true windows media server (only runs on an NT box) will allow one to fast forward.. and jump to any section of the stream without waiting for the file to download first.

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#45

04-18-2003, 06:55 PM

Since I run an amateur site, the members might not require the best possible quality, since it's "home-made" porn and all. Is the .rm really that bad? I don't think i absolutely MUST have .wmv, as long as I get something that works, and the quality is decent... Both for webcam and videoclips. If there is no way to lock other formats than .wmv from downloading, then I don't need any stream of these clips anyway, I'll just let them download it all...

well, if you are going to let them download your media, just use the .Wmv format on a *nix server, thats how all of our sites are set up... these days, i myself assume that any energies spent on trying to keep content from being pirated are wasted effort anyways, someone out there has always found ways to beat the systems. the worst thing about .RM format is that your members *must* install the Realmedia software, which really sucks... kind of like forcing your members to view ads as well, just to watch your media.

Someone also told me that it was possible to stream .wmv files on a Unix server, but I haven't got any confirmations that this is correct, and if so how I do that.

i will ask a very *nix savvy friend later tonight for you, i've never tried so do not know.

Sandra, where are you from by chance? kobanwa? ahyonghaeseo? sawasdee-cr'op? i am the resident female asian tasting official for GFY, so... welcome to GFY..!

...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..
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SandraWang

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#46

04-18-2003, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by FiReC
WMV on a unix box will appear "streaming", however it is really just progressive download... it plays as it downloads. A true windows media server (only runs on an NT box) will allow one to fast forward.. and jump to any section of the stream without waiting for the file to download first.

ahh thanks finally I got an answer to that one
So I can "stream" the .wmv files, only not REAL stream... that's ok with me I think...

is it possible to keep them from downloading it?

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lEricPl

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#47

04-18-2003, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by DynaSpain

You don't grasp it now do you? of course with 3 times the amount
of servers and 4 times as much admin time you can accomplish
the same. sites above except for GFY use Microsoft server
because of lucrative contracts.......not because it's better.

I'm not sucking this out of my ass these are facts.....go ahead
search for it and present me proof that I'm not right.

DynaMite

I don't know about you...but all of my client's servers run smooth and require very little maintance on my part.

Go figure.....
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#48

04-18-2003, 06:58 PM

Why runs hotmail on freebsd? b.t.w. Yahoo runs on freebsd
aswell. Get your information straight.

scroll down to the bottom of the page and see

http://www.freebsd.org/gallery/cgallery.html

DynaMite

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SandraWang

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#49

04-18-2003, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by chupacabra

i will ask a very *nix savvy friend later tonight for you, i've never tried so do not know.

Sandra, where are you from by chance? kobanwa? ahyonghaeseo? sawasdee-cr'op? i am the resident female asian tasting official for GFY, so... welcome to GFY..!

Hi, chupacabra Thank you so much, maybe I will get a solution to all this mess then afterall ;)

About your question where I'm from, I'm 100% Norwegian, from Oslo, the capitol... I have noticed alot of people think I'm asian when they see my last name, "Wang", but actually that is also a Norwegian last name ;) I was also told it means "dick" in english

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#50

04-18-2003, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by lEricPl

I don't know about you...but all of my client's servers run smooth and require very little maintance on my part.

Go figure.....

That says more about your clients then about the OS they use.

DynaMite

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