2257 question about shooting own footage for your site - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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lorsha

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#1

2257 question about shooting own footage for your site

04-17-2003, 11:41 AM

My husband and I shoot our own material for our site, and have never had anyone else involved in our photo shoots, in any way.

But I do have a "friends" section in my members area. Does this mean that I must have their info on file, to be in accordance with the law?

Thanks so much!

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#2

04-17-2003, 11:49 AM

I know jack shit about this, but this is what I'd do:

First, I"d have YOU fill out all the paperwork, then I'd keep THAT in my file. The law says "you will have paperwork for every performer" and it doesn't allow for a married persons exclusion.

To your question, I'd always go with the safe route and get the paperwork even if you don't need it.

Fyodor Dostoyevsky wrote: "Every man has reminiscences which he would not tell to everyone but only his friends. He has other matters in his mind which he would not reveal even to his friends, but only to himself, and that in secret. But there are other things which a man is afraid to tell even to himself, and every decent man has a number of such things stored away in his mind."

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Mr. Jim

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#3

04-17-2003, 11:51 AM

1. Make sure all content is 2257 compliant

2. have a link that will show a physical address and name of the custodian of records. Address cannot be a P.O. box

3. This is not a small deal. Make sure you cover your ass

4. If you shoot the content you MUST have the original paperwork with releases etc. etc.

5.It may not be a bad idea if your operation is small to get a copy of the releases from the content provider.

6. Call me to get you hooked up with over 20,000 hours of content that is updated with new content every month and you will have a third party provider that definately has your back.

Last edited by Mr. Jim; 04-17-2003, 11:54 AM.
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#4

04-17-2003, 11:53 AM

if youre shooting it, yes you have to keep records on file proving the age of the persons involved of photos at the time of filming or capture.

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lorsha

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#5

04-17-2003, 11:54 AM

Yikes, this is some scary stuff!

I am using a PO box now as my 2257. Hmmm.....I'm not about to use my home address......no way!

Hmmmm........

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lorsha

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#6

04-17-2003, 11:56 AM

Jim do I have to even have a release for my hubby and myself?

What concerns me most, is my "Friends" section. Do I have to get the info from EVERY one of them??

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sneaker

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#7

04-17-2003, 12:04 PM

Law is pretty straight forward if you produce the material you need to have the documents required on hand for production requests from the D.O.J. this means a valid address they can submit the requests to. The address needs to be an employee of the company. We keep our original documents on-file with an attorney on retainer, a copy is kept with our Chicago office that answer production requests. To this day we have had only 1 request and that was from a model's attorney who was attempting to milk us for more royalties but once the notorized copy of the model release was sent to the attorney we never heard back from them guess it is hard to fight a rock solid contract releasing all copyrights to the images. What the point is not only is the "age verification" documents important but also a model release!

If you purchase content you need to list the address for each provider you purchase from on a page that the D.O.J. can send requests to. How they figure out which images are to which producer is beyond me.
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lorsha

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#8

04-17-2003, 12:08 PM

So in other words Sneaker, I have to print out a model release, and my hubby and I both have to sign it?

The address thing is going to be a problem though. No way am I going to give out my home address on my site.

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sneaker

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#9

04-17-2003, 12:24 PM

A model release is not required by law, but it is a contract between two parties (producer and model) about compensation for the royalties earned off the material. So that is completely upto you, I would have some sort of contract in this day and age never know when (heaven forbid) a divorce might happen.

As for the address, not sure about "private parties" but on our business filings you should have a business address that should satisfy the requirements for a valid address since it is a business.

This is not advice just opinion below, please consult your lawyer:

The context of the law regarding "valid address" is written with the intent to make sure prompt response and a entity be it a business or person can be held criminally/civilly liable for the infraction of this law. I would assue if you used a mail drop (Mail Box etc..) since they are required to have a copy of I.D. and SSN on file (postal regulations) that you should be okay providing you answer the requests from the D.O.J. in a timely manner. If you answer a request and the D.O.J. wants to prosecute because of your choice of address doubt you will get a judge to convict you due to the fact you used a mail drop, but if you ignore the requests and they have to come looking for you it doesn't look good might show an intent to evade your liability.
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lorsha

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#10

04-17-2003, 12:48 PM

Thanks Sneaker.

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Dax

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#11

04-17-2003, 12:55 PM

And yes, you need to have records of your husband and yours... You HAVE to...
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Mr. Jim

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#12

04-17-2003, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Dax
And yes, you need to have records of your husband and yours... You HAVE to...

Ditto

if it is on film and you are displaying the images for people to see you have to have model releses signed. Two forms of CURENT I.D.

as far as third party you simply need to list the phsical address and names of the custodian of records

lastly the P.O. Box thing is not good
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lorsha

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#13

04-17-2003, 01:11 PM

Any suggestions on the PO problem?

I for very obvious reasons, cannot give out my home address.

Thanks so much guys for all the responses!

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sneaker

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#14

04-17-2003, 01:26 PM

This will be the last post I make but Dax and Holio are right however I think people get confused about two terms that are constantly mixed up... I see in your post Holio that you say "model release signed. Two forms of CURRENT I.D." which I think is missleading see below....->

1) Model Release = A contract between the producer and model, this is business contract nothing else. This is a civil contract between two parties regarding royalties and compensation.

2) Age Documents = Required by law to be the two forms of valid government issued I.D. one must contain a picture. Don't forget that this document must containt a list of "stage names" ever used by the model.

**EDIT TO INCLUDE **
P.S. I do see how it gets confusing. A lot of producers bundle the age documents and model releases in the same "package" to be signed/filled out before the shoot. Common practice.

Originally posted by jimholio

Ditto

if it is on film and you are displaying the images for people to see you have to have model releses signed. Two forms of CURENT I.D.

as far as third party you simply need to list the phsical address and names of the custodian of records

lastly the P.O. Box thing is not good

Last edited by sneaker; 04-17-2003, 01:30 PM.
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#15

04-17-2003, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by sneaker
This will be the last post I make but Dax and Holio are right however I think people get confused about two terms that are constantly mixed up... I see in your post Holio that you say "model release signed. Two forms of CURRENT I.D." which I think is missleading see below....->

1) Model Release = A contract between the producer and model, this is business contract nothing else. This is a civil contract between two parties regarding royalties and compensation.

2) Age Documents = Required by law to be the two forms of valid government issued I.D. one must contain a picture. Don't forget that this document must containt a list of "stage names" ever used by the model.

**EDIT TO INCLUDE **
P.S. I do see how it gets confusing. A lot of producers bundle the age documents and model releases in the same "package" to be signed/filled out before the shoot. Common practice.

The law only requires one peice of ID as long as it has all of the required info on it. 2 is only a recomendation. FYI..Yes, I ALWAYS get 2 for my records.

Here is more info for those who are interested.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=126106
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#16

04-17-2003, 02:22 PM

AaronM

P.S. Also, a P.O. Box is bad, business address as defined is good! And if you keep backup copies offsite (in case of fire) my opinion is to make them notorized copies as most all legal entities will require originals.

Peace Out!
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NetRodent

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#17

04-17-2003, 02:28 PM

There are a few ways around giving out a home address without using a p.o. box...

1. Use your lawyers address (perhaps even make him the custodian of records).

2. Use a business mail-drop/phone relay service.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
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AaronM

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#18

04-17-2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by NetRodent
There are a few ways around giving out a home address without using a p.o. box...

1. Use your lawyers address (perhaps even make him the custodian of records).

2. Use a business mail-drop/phone relay service.

BOTH of which are against the law.

Great advice....NEXT!
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#19

04-17-2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by AaronM

BOTH of which are against the law.

Great advice....NEXT!

According to your other thread about J.D. Obenberger responses, it does seem rather risky to use either of the two methods I mentioned above.

However, while Obenberger is highly respected in our industry there are lawyers who will say the opposite.

For example Lightspeed's primary Custodian of Records is a law firm: http://tour.tawneestone.com/verify.php?r=6688

2 minutes on Google will find you plenty more. So who's right and who's wrong? I'm really not qualified to answer that and neither are you.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken
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AaronM

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#20

04-17-2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by NetRodent
2 minutes on Google will find you plenty more. So who's right and who's wrong? I'm really not qualified to answer that and neither are you.

Well, considering that I have 3 attorneys telling me the same thing, and considering the fact that I am probably one of the most well versed people on this topic who post here.....I tend to think that I am qualified.

Read the law. It is black and white.
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NetRodent

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#21

04-17-2003, 03:34 PM

It would be interesting to hear what Robert S. Apgood of AvantLaw PLLC has to say.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken
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AaronM

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#22

04-17-2003, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by NetRodent
It would be interesting to hear what Robert S. Apgood of AvantLaw PLLC has to say.

So...Write him and ask.
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NetRodent

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#23

04-17-2003, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by AaronM

So...Write him and ask.

I don't have to. He'll say one of two things...

"Why, yes I am breaking the law and will be disbarred and sent to jail."

or...

"No, its perfectly legal."

Which way do you think he'll answer?

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken
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#24

04-17-2003, 04:09 PM

I think what the lady was talking about is when you have a amateur website you do promo pack exchanges. The way that works is you give me 15 pics and a banner. I put it in my members section and you put mine in your members section. I am curious myself how would that have to be handled in regards to 2257?
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lorsha

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#25

04-17-2003, 04:29 PM

Yes, Tony, that is what I am talking about?'

Anyone?

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AaronM

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#26

04-17-2003, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by tony404
I think what the lady was talking about is when you have a amateur website you do promo pack exchanges. The way that works is you give me 15 pics and a banner. I put it in my members section and you put mine in your members section. I am curious myself how would that have to be handled in regards to 2257?

This question has been answered.
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#27

04-17-2003, 06:02 PM

I can't believe anyone, even the idiots who work for govn't would believe a porn actor would use their real name !
Give me a break!
I know you have to do this nonsence for the govn't but at some point a little common sense must prevail.
Whatever ID was shown to a photographer on the day of shooting is nothing more than a lot of BS. People use phoney ID all the time, why would you want to use real ID in a porn film?

Tracie Lords didn't lie now did she?
Trouble is to this day noone knows how old she really is.
Do you know what her real name is?
Their is about half a dozen supposed "reall names" floating around.
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tony286

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#28

04-17-2003, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by AaronM

This question has been answered.

Can you be a nice guy and point us in the general direction
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tony286

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#29

04-17-2003, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by sumphatpimp
I can't believe anyone, even the idiots who work for govn't would believe a porn actor would use their real name !
Give me a break!
I know you have to do this nonsence for the govn't but at some point a little common sense must prevail.
Whatever ID was shown to a photographer on the day of shooting is nothing more than a lot of BS. People use phoney ID all the time, why would you want to use real ID in a porn film?

Tracie Lords didn't lie now did she?
Trouble is to this day noone knows how old she really is.
Do you know what her real name is?
Their is about half a dozen supposed "reall names" floating around.

Sorry but you can tell a fake id from a govt issue id. All mine are very real, was a bouncer for 10 yrs all I did was look at ids. Can spot a fake from a mile away. Also I make it a point not to shoot anyone under 21.
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