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UnseenWorld

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#1

Who is the advocate of truth?

04-15-2003, 03:00 PM

I have a friend who claims to be a witch (excuse me, Wiccan). We used to argue quite a bit about her beliefs in not just wicca but extrasensory perception and other things seemingly contrary to scientific fact.

Finally, in a debate over whether something she believed was scientifically factual, she said, "How can you be such a supporter of science. Science has a history of changing its mind. Scientists used to believe in humors and that all space was permeated by ether, but now they believe those theories are false."

What I said finally shut her up on the subject forever: "I believe in science precisely because it DOES have a procedure for changing its mind. It was never an immutable doctrine that humors or ether existed. Science was ready to consider new ideas and admit it had been wrong based on the evidence. When was the last time Wicca admitted to getting anything wrong?"

Deadly silence...

Let's bring this back to what we read on this board today.

I have never heard a single conspiracy theorist admit they were ever wrong about any of the wild theories they propound. Why? Because these theories are not theories at all, subject to disconfirmation based on fact, but rather immutable doctrines which they have taken a silent vow to defend to the death.

Massivecock et al, is there no single weird or wild or outrageous conspiracy theory you've offered that turned out to be wrong? If so, let's hear about it now.

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#2

04-15-2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by UnseenWorld
I have a friend who claims to be a witch

I stoped reading efter that sentence
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UnseenWorld

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#3

04-15-2003, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by ebus_dk

I stoped reading efter that sentence

Your loss.

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Scootermuze

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#4

04-15-2003, 03:12 PM

Well.. Wicca is a religion.. Have you ever known anyone who opened their mind to the possibility that their religion could be wrong?
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#5

04-15-2003, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Scootermuze
Well.. Wicca is a religion.. Have you ever known anyone who opened their mind to the possibility that their religion could be wrong?

Every single religion out there is a piece of shit...
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#6

04-15-2003, 03:23 PM

This post is a waste of time, space and argument.

Originally posted by Scootermuze
Well.. Wicca is a religion.. Have you ever known anyone who opened their mind to the possibility that their religion could be wrong?

Absolutely.

Everyone ponders about the possabilities at some stage or another, especially when your religion lets you down. And they all will.

I know people who have changed from one to another in the endless search of comfort.
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#7

04-15-2003, 03:25 PM

Who is the advocate of truth?

The answer: Wonton

In answer to your other question - have I ever adhered to a conspiracy theory that I later was forced to admit was wrong?

The answer: Yes.

You see, I initially believed the conspiracy theory put out by the government that a handful of muslim extremists CONSPIRED to hijack some jetliners and crash them into the WTC and Pentagon. I believed in this conspiracy theory wholeheartedly for about 4 months until I started to dig a bit deeper. Over the course of the next 12 ensuing months, I had to give up the popular conspiracy theory and replace it with a less popular, albeit more probable, conspiracy theory - that the CIA had a hand in orchestrating 9-11.
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#8

04-15-2003, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by ebus_dk

I stoped reading efter that sentence

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UnseenWorld

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#9

04-15-2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by wonton
Who is the advocate of truth?

The answer: Wonton

In answer to your other question - have I ever adhered to a conspiracy theory that I later was forced to admit was wrong?

The answer: Yes.

You see, I initially believed the conspiracy theory put out by the government that a handful of muslim extremists CONSPIRED to hijack some jetliners and crash them into the WTC and Pentagon. I believed in this conspiracy theory wholeheartedly for about 4 months until I started to dig a bit deeper. Over the course of the next 12 ensuing months, I had to give up the popular conspiracy theory and replace it with a less popular, albeit more probable, conspiracy theory - that the CIA had a hand in orchestrating 9-11.

Well, in your case, it seems obvious that you would have to believe the mainstream conspiracy idea until someone comes up with a conspiracy making your own country look bad.

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Scootermuze

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#10

04-15-2003, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by wonton
Who is the advocate of truth?

The answer: Wonton

In answer to your other question - have I ever adhered to a conspiracy theory that I later was forced to admit was wrong?

The answer: Yes.

You see, I initially believed the conspiracy theory put out by the government that a handful of muslim extremists CONSPIRED to hijack some jetliners and crash them into the WTC and Pentagon. I believed in this conspiracy theory wholeheartedly for about 4 months until I started to dig a bit deeper. Over the course of the next 12 ensuing months, I had to give up the popular conspiracy theory and replace it with a less popular, albeit more probable, conspiracy theory - that the CIA had a hand in orchestrating 9-11.

Wouldn't be the first time.. The U.S. intercepted the 'Go' code that Japan sent for the Pearl Harbor attack, but never sent the info to Hawaii.. We needed support for a war back then too.. go figger..
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#11

04-15-2003, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by UnseenWorld

Well, in your case, it seems obvious that you would have to believe the mainstream conspiracy idea until someone comes up with a conspiracy making your own country look bad.

Hmmmm. I think you are severly misjudging me, which is unfortunate. I do NOT adhere to any theory purely for the reason that it makes my country look bad. If anything, I consider myself to be a super-patriot and that is why I do not blindly follow the masses whenever I think the masses have taken a wrong turn.

There are two main conspiracy theories out there concerning 9-11:

Conspiracy Theory #1:
Put out by the US government details how a handful of extremists allegedly CONSPIRED to hijack planes and crash them into buildings. I have read all the "proof" of this conspiracy theory ad naseum in the mainstream press. It is so full of holes, it is a joke.

Conspiracy Theory #2:
Is much the same as #1 except the allegation is that the CIA funded, trained and oversaw the muslim hijackers, i.e. it was the CIA who CONSPIRED to carry out the attacks. I have also read all the evidence that supports this theory over the course of the last 1.5 years.

After weighing the mountains of evidence, I simply come to the conclusion that theory #2 is more cogent. My conclusion has nothing to do with which theory makes "my country look bad". On the contrary, my conclusion is based purely on a well thought-out and logical process of reasoning.

Last edited by wonton; 04-15-2003, 03:54 PM.
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#12

04-15-2003, 05:14 PM

"I believe in science precisely because it DOES have a procedure for changing its mind."

excellent
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#13

04-15-2003, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by UnseenWorld
I have a friend who claims to be a witch (excuse me, Wiccan). We used to argue quite a bit about her beliefs in not just wicca but extrasensory perception and other things seemingly contrary to scientific fact.

Finally, in a debate over whether something she believed was scientifically factual, she said, "How can you be such a supporter of science. Science has a history of changing its mind. Scientists used to believe in humors and that all space was permeated by ether, but now they believe those theories are false."

What I said finally shut her up on the subject forever: "I believe in science precisely because it DOES have a procedure for changing its mind. It was never an immutable doctrine that humors or ether existed. Science was ready to consider new ideas and admit it had been wrong based on the evidence. When was the last time Wicca admitted to getting anything wrong?"

Deadly silence...

Let's bring this back to what we read on this board today.

I have never heard a single conspiracy theorist admit they were ever wrong about any of the wild theories they propound. Why? Because these theories are not theories at all, subject to disconfirmation based on fact, but rather immutable doctrines which they have taken a silent vow to defend to the death.

Massivecock et al, is there no single weird or wild or outrageous conspiracy theory you've offered that turned out to be wrong? If so, let's hear about it now.

Ive been wrong plenty of times. And just like the media, I never correct myself.

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UnseenWorld

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#14

04-15-2003, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by wonton

Hmmmm. I think you are severly misjudging me, which is unfortunate. I do NOT adhere to any theory purely for the reason that it makes my country look bad. If anything, I consider myself to be a super-patriot and that is why I do not blindly follow the masses whenever I think the masses have taken a wrong turn.

There are two main conspiracy theories out there concerning 9-11:

Conspiracy Theory #1:
Put out by the US government details how a handful of extremists allegedly CONSPIRED to hijack planes and crash them into buildings. I have read all the "proof" of this conspiracy theory ad naseum in the mainstream press. It is so full of holes, it is a joke.

Conspiracy Theory #2:
Is much the same as #1 except the allegation is that the CIA funded, trained and oversaw the muslim hijackers, i.e. it was the CIA who CONSPIRED to carry out the attacks. I have also read all the evidence that supports this theory over the course of the last 1.5 years.

After weighing the mountains of evidence, I simply come to the conclusion that theory #2 is more cogent. My conclusion has nothing to do with which theory makes "my country look bad". On the contrary, my conclusion is based purely on a well thought-out and logical process of reasoning.

Your "theories" inevitably seem to lead back to a Wizard of Oz world, where nobody really knows what is going on except for the man behind the curtain, Dorothy, the Lion, The Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and you.

People can read "evidence" and if they are looking for something in particular (the man behind the curtain), they will remember what seems to confirm it and discard or forget anything that cannot be explained away.

Now, have you looked into whether the Jewish Bankers or the Trilateral Commission are behind 9/11? Or maybe the aliens have lost interest in abducting people to stick probes up their noses or pee-pees and now find that guiding airplanes into buildings is much more fun?

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#15

04-15-2003, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by MrPopup

Ive been wrong plenty of times. And just like the media, I never correct myself.

Now would have been a good time. I was wrong on capital punishment for a long time, but changed my mind about two or three years ago.

You?

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#16

04-15-2003, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by ebus_dk

I stoped reading efter that sentence

I found it captivating myself.

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#17

04-15-2003, 05:48 PM

hehe.. I was just thinking about this today, after former oil industry representatives were posted in the interim government in afghanistan and construction on the oil and natural gas pipeline people said was the reason for the war (likely) and 9/11 (extremely unlikely) has either started, or is starting soon.. im sure a lot of conspriacy people are getting smug..
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#18

04-15-2003, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by wonton
I believed in this conspiracy theory wholeheartedly for about 4 months until I started to dig a bit deeper.

I get the distinct feeling that "dig deeper" means trolling conspiracy websites reading essays peppered with phrases such as "the establishment doesn't get it", "The mass media controls you",
"Orwellian", and "secret CIA documents". Definitely lots of mentions of "Jews" and "bankers", sometimes even "Jewish bankers". I'll also bet there are quite a few organizations with "League" in the title and "undisclosed FBI sources". Older conspiracy theorists might even throw in the occasional "military-industrial complex".

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#19

04-15-2003, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by UnseenWorld

Jewish Bankers

Fuck, you beat me

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#20

04-15-2003, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by UnseenWorld

Now would have been a good time. I was wrong on capital punishment for a long time, but changed my mind about two or three years ago.

You?

In the last 6 months or so Ive had a lot more clarity since coming to the conclusion that appeasement and mediation rather than confrontation usually gets better results.

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#21

04-15-2003, 06:04 PM

"Do You Believe My Strength Or My Speed Has Anything To Do With My Muscles? In This Place?"

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#22

04-15-2003, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by MrPopup

In the last 6 months or so Ive had a lot more clarity since coming to the conclusion that appeasement and mediation rather than confrontation usually gets better results.

Twelve years of something like that with Saddam Hussein and what would you say was the "better result"? It appears to me that another 12, 24, or 48 years of same probably would have been the result.

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#23

04-15-2003, 11:06 PM

What are you guys talking about?

Religion is the shiznit.

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#24

04-15-2003, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by UnseenWorld
I have a friend who claims to be a witch (excuse me, Wiccan). We used to argue quite a bit about her beliefs in not just wicca but extrasensory perception and other things seemingly contrary to scientific fact.

Finally, in a debate over whether something she believed was scientifically factual, she said, "How can you be such a supporter of science. Science has a history of changing its mind. Scientists used to believe in humors and that all space was permeated by ether, but now they believe those theories are false."

What I said finally shut her up on the subject forever: "I believe in science precisely because it DOES have a procedure for changing its mind. It was never an immutable doctrine that humors or ether existed. Science was ready to consider new ideas and admit it had been wrong based on the evidence. When was the last time Wicca admitted to getting anything wrong?"

Deadly silence...

Let's bring this back to what we read on this board today.

I have never heard a single conspiracy theorist admit they were ever wrong about any of the wild theories they propound. Why? Because these theories are not theories at all, subject to disconfirmation based on fact, but rather immutable doctrines which they have taken a silent vow to defend to the death.

Massivecock et al, is there no single weird or wild or outrageous conspiracy theory you've offered that turned out to be wrong? If so, let's hear about it now.

Brilliantly put.

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#25

04-15-2003, 11:09 PM

it's all about the leap of faith

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
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