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US Marine: I've had enough, I just want to go home

03-29-2003, 10:13 AM

Conflict Sapping Forces Morale

By Andrew North
With US marines in Nasiriyah

Marines are contending with tough conditions. Here on the frontline this conflict is taking its toll on morale.

I can see the signs in the US marines I am with outside Nasiriyah.

Quite a few of the troops have said to me that this isn't what they were expecting.

They have had a tiring week of guerrilla-style fighting and it continues.

They are frustrated that their political masters gave the American public the impression that it would be easier than it's turned out to be.

But, also that they should have given them more expectation about Iraqi resistance like this.

They don't want to admit they can't deal with it, but I think there is definitely a sense that it is not the kind of fighting that they were really trained for.

One Marine told me: "I've had enough of being fired at from all directions, I just want to go home".

More at..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2896439.stm
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#2

03-29-2003, 10:52 AM

Did anybody else catch the reporter on the news that said "...the government was not prepared for guerrilla fighting..." Sounds like someone was asleep before the invasion...er, liberation started.
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#3

03-29-2003, 10:56 AM

it's just the white man tryin to keep the world's finest fighting force down... jealousy.... same for the only reasoning behind anti-emaerican sentiment, because they know we rule the world and can take it at a whisp of our almighty hands.... that's undisputable... anyone who has something to say to that is just patriotic to their country or a sellout to the USA / non vet.

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#4

03-29-2003, 11:16 AM

Kman,

yep all these soldiers voluntered, they tranined for what they are doing.

If they were all drafted, well I wouldn't have a problem with them bitching alot.

As a Vet, I fully understand that our How could be blown up at any time from anywhere

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03-29-2003, 11:32 AM
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03-29-2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by kmanrox
it's just the white man tryin to keep the world's finest fighting force down... jealousy.... same for the only reasoning behind anti-emaerican sentiment, because they know we rule the world and can take it at a whisp of our almighty hands.... that's undisputable... anyone who has something to say to that is just patriotic to their country or a sellout to the USA / non vet.

But you are 'white' and said you're not U.S. citizen. Confusing....

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#7

03-29-2003, 11:59 AM

LOL, US forces getting their ass kicked by cavemen
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03-29-2003, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by DarkJedi
LOL, US forces getting their ass kicked by cavemen

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#9

03-29-2003, 12:05 PM

seriously start nuking cause this poor soldier can't handle the heat.
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#10

03-29-2003, 12:06 PM

wow great army of pussies
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#11

03-29-2003, 12:07 PM

MYLES/rossiya, learn to speak English prior to your next ignorant spouting, eh?

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03-29-2003, 12:19 PM

Hey I'm just reading the ICQ's no reason to be rude. You be whatever color/country you like.

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#13

03-29-2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by DarkJedi
LOL, US forces getting their ass kicked by cavemen

38 dead in 9 days and there 300 miles into Iraq. Now awaiting the 4th ID.

You keep right on believing what you like though

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#14

03-29-2003, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by kmanrox
MYLES/rossiya, learn to speak English prior to your next ignorant spouting, eh?

Not sure about his english (or your spelling) but his post did make more sense than yours.
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#15

03-29-2003, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by ChrisH

38 dead in 9 days and there 300 miles into Iraq. Now awaiting the 4th ID.

You keep right on believing what you like though

some people don't have a lick of smart's.
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LOL, US forces getting their ass kicked by cavemen
----------------------------------------------------
we could kill 100,000 of them today, and caveman's friend would get tried trying not to believe it, shit there head might explode it would get so hot, (with hot air) that's what air heads are full of right.

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#16

03-29-2003, 01:34 PM

It is not unusual for deployed troops to want to go home, and even more so when they are being shot at.

An aside, one of the wounded when being interviewed was asked what it was like to be shot at and he answered "Being shot at is not so bad, it is being shot that is the bad part."

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#17

03-29-2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by jimmyf
some people don't have a lick of smart's.
----------------------------------------------------
LOL, US forces getting their ass kicked by cavemen
----------------------------------------------------
we could kill 100,000 of them today, and caveman's friend would get tried trying not to believe it, shit there head might explode it would get so hot, (with hot air) that's what air heads are full of right.

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#18

03-29-2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by theking
It is not unusual for deployed troops to want to go home, and even more so when they are being shot at.

An aside, one of the wounded when being interviewed was asked what it was like to be shot at and he answered "Being shot at is not so bad, it is being shot that is the bad part."

That's rather glib. As I remember it, being shot at is a hell of a lot worse. Once you're shot, you're not wondering what it's gonna be like any more.

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#19

03-29-2003, 02:41 PM

I think the problem is.. they were expecting another desert storm scenario where the job was done in a week with very little work..

Freeing Kuwait and Going after Hussein are two totally different things..

I would imagine they all want to come home... One day they're sitting home with family, or hangin out with friends at the bar, then a few days later they're shooting people and being shot at.

They may be trained, but no training can prepare you for the realities of war.
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#20

03-29-2003, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Scootermuze
I think the problem is.. they were expecting another desert storm scenario where the job was done in a week with very little work..

38 days of air attacks is NOT a week. Never has been, never will be.

Maybe a search on google for "how time elapses" will help you out in the long run

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#21

03-29-2003, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by ChrisH

38 days of air attacks is NOT a week. Never has been, never will be.

Maybe a search on google for "how time elapses" will help you out in the long run

yesterdays time travel threads have confused people..
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#22

03-29-2003, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Gutterboy

yesterdays time travel threads have confused people..

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#23

03-29-2003, 03:05 PM

I am a Canadian, but I have to say something...

first of all, I know that there is a bit of tension between Canada & the United States sometimes, quite a bit lately... I just hope we can learn to understand each other and get along better soon. I have to admit, I would not enjoy being an American soldier right now, in the desert, scared yet brave at the same time... wondering what will happen next.

despite whatever in the past, my heart goes out to the American soldiers and families who are dealing with some tough shit right now!

we need to learn more about harmony!!

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#24

03-29-2003, 03:14 PM

its kinda funny thats not what he expected seeing that

The US Marines mostly trains in urban combat MOUT training
and desert combat in 29 palms

I know I got sent there at least 3 times in 4 years for desert warfare training and the MOUT training all the time

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#25

03-29-2003, 06:14 PM

everyone wants to go home and hangout, fuck the girl, get buzzed. you wanta do that at all times but when your hot, dirty, hungery.shot at, and pissed then you want it a little more. But they'll take care of the job at hand.

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#26

03-29-2003, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by stanton
wow great army of pussies

Because of a few of the 100'000's of thousands?

Don't kids yourself little man - thank your maker every night that army of pussies isn't coming up the street after your little town.

It's a little harder to win a war while you are trying not to kill any civilians or blow their shit away. THEY have killed more Iraqi's than the US has - don't you see that?

Do you SERIOUSLY think if it wasn't for the restraints the US has put on itself it couldn't level Iraq in a couple days?

Maybe that was just meant as silly, foolish remark that I shouldn't have taken seriously - if that's the case - sorry I pointed out how stupid and totally absurd it was.

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#27

03-29-2003, 08:41 PM

OK now I use translator:

I th'o't da problem iz.. dey wuz expecting another
desert storm scenario where da job wuz done in uh
week wiff very little werk..

Freeing Kuwait an' Going afta Hussein iz two
totally different things..

I would imagine dey all wants ta come home... One
day they're sitting home wiff family, or hangin out
wiff homies at da bar, then uh few days later they're
shooting peeps an' being smok'd at.

They may be trained, but nahh training can prepare
ya fo' da realities o' war. Ya' dig? Shite....

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03-29-2003, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by rossiya2
OK now I use translator:

I th'o't da problem iz.. dey wuz expecting another
desert storm scenario where da job wuz done in uh
week wiff very little werk..

Freeing Kuwait an' Going afta Hussein iz two
totally different things..

I would imagine dey all wants ta come home... One
day they're sitting home wiff family, or hangin out
wiff homies at da bar, then uh few days later they're
shooting peeps an' being smok'd at.

They may be trained, but nahh training can prepare
ya fo' da realities o' war. Ya' dig? Shite....

You give me the words... I'll make the sentence

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03-29-2003, 09:22 PM

I'll agree with Tanker on all of this.

I too am a fomer US Marine. I was stationed mostly at MCB Camp Lejeune, NC. We had an entire town called "combat town" where we trained at least once a month.

Don't tell me we "weren't prepared for it". Fuck, we moved in so fast and had so few problems we had to "stop" for the supply lines to keep up with front lines. Seems to be going damn well to me.

Training for combat and being in combat is two different things. I was into playing paintball for a while; Imagine standing up during a game where paint is flying everywhere. Then imagine it's not paint, but that it's bullets.

Then factor in the fact that their army is trying to blend in with the general population.... You don't know who the fuck to shoot at.

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#30

03-29-2003, 09:24 PM

PS: Here's a news article straight off the main page of the website for MCB Camp Lejeune....... They train for this shit constantly.

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#31

03-29-2003, 09:25 PM

training is one thing.

actual combat is another thing.

all the virtual training in the world doesnt mean fuck with blood on your face.

in addition.

29 palms is shit.

FUCK 29 PALMS.

they farm ostriches for burgers in 29 palms.

i dread driving through that shithole of a highway town. not to mention the wind, folks who live out there have serious issues. desert folk, like the Sand People in Star Wars, weird cousin fucking people. hahah

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#32

03-29-2003, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
training is one thing.

actual combat is another thing.

all the virtual training in the world doesnt mean fuck with blood on your face.

in addition.

29 palms is shit.

FUCK 29 PALMS.

they farm ostriches for burgers in 29 palms.

i dread driving through that shithole of a highway town. not to mention the wind, folks who live out there have serious issues. desert folk, like the Sand People in Star Wars, weird cousin fucking people. hahah

I think the road runners love it. Who sells the burgers? I cannot recall having ever seen Ostrich patties for sale in a super market.

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#33

03-29-2003, 10:15 PM

More info about the Ostrich burgers please?

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#34

03-29-2003, 11:28 PM

Unfortunatly alot of these guys went into the military for the wrong reasons, be they free college or whatever, and now they are dealing with the reality of the situation.

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#35

03-29-2003, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by tomax
Unfortunatly alot of these guys went into the military for the wrong reasons, be they free college or whatever, and now they are dealing with the reality of the situation.

Well over half of the military personell are on there first and only enlistment and the majority joined for the educational benefits or specific technical training. I do not view that as being for the wrong reasons, by the way, but an opportunity. Only career soldiers are really aware that they will have to engage in conflict before their retirement.

An aside, one of the recent wounded has 12 years of service and he said that is all for him. He is married with children and said that his family is more important to him then any war.

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#36

03-29-2003, 11:49 PM

I'm sure glad it's not me... shit it sounds like a suicide mission to me...

1. You don't know who the enemy is until they shoot first.
2. What if they shoot at you and then they're using a woman or child as a human shield.
3. How do you know where the bullets are coming from in a big city full of windows?

All Iraq has to do is scatter snipers all over the city... Hell it will take an ETERNITY to wipe them out... Let's say you take out all the snipers, then new ones just step into their place... It's not like they will run out of bullets... all they have to do is take cheap shots at the US soldiers all year long -- pick them off one at a time -- what is the hurry? It's not like the USA will let Iraq starve to death... and the city isn't going anywhere because we want to build Starbucks and McDonalds... It's a lost cause plain and simple -- somebody please explain to me how it isn't??? Iraq hasn't really fought back yet, simply because they don't have to! What is the urgency? The USA can't really interview every citizen to find out if they are the "enemy" I shouldn't laugh because it's really sad! So many soldiers will die!
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#37

03-29-2003, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by TheFLY
I'm sure glad it's not me... shit it sounds like a suicide mission to me...

1. You don't know who the enemy is until they shoot first.
2. What if they shoot at you and then they're using a woman or child as a human shield.
3. How do you know where the bullets are coming from in a big city full of windows?

All Iraq has to do is scatter snipers all over the city... Hell it will take an ETERNITY to wipe them out... Let's say you take out all the snipers, then new ones just step into their place... It's not like they will run out of bullets... all they have to do is take cheap shots at the US soldiers all year long -- pick them off one at a time -- what is the hurry? It's not like the USA will let Iraq starve to death... and the city isn't going anywhere because we want to build Starbucks and McDonalds... It's a lost cause plain and simple -- somebody please explain to me how it isn't??? Iraq hasn't really fought back yet, simply because they don't have to! What is the urgency? The USA can't really interview every citizen to find out if they are the "enemy" I shouldn't laugh because it's really sad! So many soldiers will die!

To answer question 2, when they become seasoned they will waste them, just as was done in Vietnam.

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#38

03-29-2003, 11:56 PM

To abbreviate my last post...

How do you win "urban warfare" when the enemy has really nothing to fear and is in no hurry to attack? Think about it... You could have guns hidden in every building in the city... Some random looking civilian walks into the building -- takes the hidden gun -- takes a cheap shot -- kills a US soldier -- returns the gun to the hiding place -- and walks out of the building like nothing happened... This could go on indefinitely... Unless you evacuate the whole city and use some kind of thermal scanning to know where the shots were coming from... but you can't leave the city evacuated forever! I don't see any solution...
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#39

03-30-2003, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by theking

To answer question 2, when they become seasoned they will waste them, just as was done in Vietnam.

More mentally ill vets to ask me for spare change everywhere I go.
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#40

03-30-2003, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by TheFLY
To abbreviate my last post...

How do you win "urban warfare" when the enemy has really nothing to fear and is in no hurry to attack? Think about it... You could have guns hidden in every building in the city... Some random looking civilian walks into the building -- takes the hidden gun -- takes a cheap shot -- kills a US soldier -- returns the gun to the hiding place -- and walks out of the building like nothing happened... This could go on indefinitely... Unless you evacuate the whole city and use some kind of thermal scanning to know where the shots were coming from... but you can't leave the city evacuated forever! I don't see any solution...

I am sure that you have heard of the Second World War. How many thousands of villages, towns, cities did we take. Many, many, of them being street to street fighting, up to and including Germany proper.

Last edited by theking; 03-30-2003, 12:04 AM.

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#41

03-30-2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by TheFLY
I'm sure glad it's not me... shit it sounds like a suicide mission to me...

1. You don't know who the enemy is until they shoot first.
2. What if they shoot at you and then they're using a woman or child as a human shield.
3. How do you know where the bullets are coming from in a big city full of windows?

All Iraq has to do is scatter snipers all over the city... Hell it will take an ETERNITY to wipe them out... Let's say you take out all the snipers, then new ones just step into their place... It's not like they will run out of bullets... all they have to do is take cheap shots at the US soldiers all year long -- pick them off one at a time -- what is the hurry? It's not like the USA will let Iraq starve to death... and the city isn't going anywhere because we want to build Starbucks and McDonalds... It's a lost cause plain and simple -- somebody please explain to me how it isn't??? Iraq hasn't really fought back yet, simply because they don't have to! What is the urgency? The USA can't really interview every citizen to find out if they are the "enemy" I shouldn't laugh because it's really sad! So many soldiers will die!

What you are talking about here has a lot of similarity to what happened to russia when they tried to invade/occupy afganistan. The invasion part is one thing, but occupation is gonna be a bitch. One thing might be funny though, if the pro nra bush and co try to confiscate all the guns.......
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#42

03-30-2003, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by theking

when they become seasoned they will waste them, just as was done in Vietnam.

Thats absurd and stupid. With 95% of the worlds population against them already, they cant afford to do that politically. And if they did it would just create that many more snipers and such.
You do remember the end result of the vietnam war dont you?
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#43

03-30-2003, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Big Monkie

Thats absurd and stupid. With 95% of the worlds population against them already, they cant afford to do that politically. And if they did it would just create that many more snipers and such.
You do remember the end result of the vietnam war dont you?

Yes, we withdrew our forces and the Vietnam conflict was a prime example of a war gone south because of micro management by civilians for political reasons.

If civilian micro management of this war, for political reasons, maintains its dominate role, this war too could go south.

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#44

03-30-2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by theking

Yes, we withdrew our forces and the Vietnam conflict was a prime example of a war gone south because of micro management by civilians for political reasons.

If civilian micro management of this war, for political reasons, maintains its dominate role, this war too could go south.

No, vietnam was a prime example of various things sun szu talked about, ie nationalism. Besides, this iraq thing has been pushed from the start by chickenhawks (civilians as you say) for both economic and political reasons. What is happening and will continue to happen there shouldnt be a surprise to anyone. But it really has little if anything to do with micro management.
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#45

03-30-2003, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Big Monkie

No, vietnam was a prime example of various things sun szu talked about, ie nationalism. Besides, this iraq thing has been pushed from the start by chickenhawks (civilians as you say) for both economic and political reasons. What is happening and will continue to happen there shouldnt be a surprise to anyone. But it really has little if anything to do with micro management.

The Vietnam conflict could have been ended in a single day with the use of nukes. Civilian micro management, for political reasons (among other reasons) would not allow this option to the military.

The Vietnam conflict could have been ended in thirty days with 24/7 conventional bombing of the North. The proof of this is in the pudding. Eleven days of 24/7 conventional bombing brought the North to the peace table. But it was not until towards the end of the war that civilian micro management allowed this option and this type of bombing to occur.

The Vietnam conflict could have been ended by conventional ground forces in a 90 day period by invading the North. Civilian micro management would not allow the military this option, for political reasons.

The successful take over of Iraq will depend entirely upon civilian micro management. Civilian micro management has already delayed the taking of cities in Southern Iraq. Civlian micro management often costs more lives by prolonging war than allowing the military to do what it needs to do to bring the war to a swift end.

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Big Monkie

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#46

03-30-2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by theking

The Vietnam conflict could have been ended in a single day with the use of nukes. Civilian micro management, for political reasons (among other reasons) would not allow this option to the military.

The Vietnam conflict could have been ended in thirty days with 24/7 conventional bombing of the North. The proof of this is in the pudding. Eleven days of 24/7 conventional bombing brought the North to the peace table. But it was not until towards the end of the war that civilian micro management allowed this option and this type of bombing to occur.

The Vietnam conflict could have been ended by conventional ground forces in a 90 day period by invading the North. Civilian micro management would not allow the military this option, for political reasons.

The successful take over of Iraq will depend entirely upon civilian micro management. Civilian micro management has already delayed the taking of cities in Southern Iraq. Civlian micro management often costs more lives by prolonging war than allowing the military to do what it needs to do to bring the war to a swift end.

I was going to be nice, but this is gfy so wtf. I think we need to end this thread here because you are really embarrassing yourself.
Did you read this thread at all? Evidently the entire concept is difficult for you to grasp, so here it is again briefly; its about how even if you have vast military superiority its a much taller order to defeat the entire population. The vietnam conflict would never have been "ended" by military force, because large numbers of their people believed they were right and roughly half or more of ours didnt. Its called nationalism. We couldnt even outlast them on the battlefield, and the battlefield/military aspect is the easy part for us. Occupation is a bitch. Now, we are invading and occuppying a country that never attacked or even threatened us. This wasnt true for japan or germany, we were attacked and had the definite moral high ground. Every iraqi that is killed now just makes for more hatred and fuels resolve to strike back at us however they can. The only way the military can bring this "to a swift end" is to kill the entire population, which cannot be done for obvious political reasons. Or perhaps they can get the propaganda cranked up and convince all those relatives and friends of dead iraqis that everything is ok. But it aint about management of military force. Get it?
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theking

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#47

03-30-2003, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Big Monkie

I was going to be nice, but this is gfy so wtf. I think we need to end this thread here because you are really embarrassing yourself.

I am flattered by your concern.

Did you read this thread at all? Evidently the entire concept is difficult for you to grasp, so here it is again briefly;

Yes. The concept is not beyond my grasp, thank you very much.

its about how even if you have vast military superiority its a much taller order to defeat the entire population.

I think that is clear to most people, including myself, and have stated in multiple posts that taking military control is the easy part, winning the peace is the difficult part. Pay attention please.

The vietnam conflict would never have been "ended" by military force, because large numbers of their people believed they were right and roughly half or more of ours didnt. Its called nationalism. We couldnt even outlast them on the battlefield, and the battlefield/military aspect is the easy part for us.

I stated the reasons why the conflict, virtually at any time during the years that we were militarily engaged, could have been ended and they are all valid, period.

Occupation is a bitch.

It can be and often is, but we have had some success at this (Germany/Japan).

Now, we are invading and occuppying a country that never attacked or even threatened us. This wasnt true for japan or germany, we were attacked and had the definite moral high ground. Every iraqi that is killed now just makes for more hatred and fuels resolve to strike back at us however they can.

You are correct, some will hate us untill hell freezes over and some of those will act upon their hatred. Around 25,000 people are murded in the USA every year. I seriously doubt that "Iraqi resistence/terrorists" will achieve this level of American deaths annually, but what ever the number becomes we will just have to deal with it.

The only way the military can bring this "to a swift end" is to kill the entire population, which cannot be done for obvious political reasons.

Wrong, we did not kill the entire population of any country that we have militarily engaged and yet those wars have ended, but I do agree that if the USA was not and is not willing to wage war as it must be waged, this current conflict can go south just as the Vietnam conflict did, because of micro management of the military for political reasons.

Or perhaps they can get the propaganda cranked up and convince all those relatives and friends of dead iraqis that everything is ok. But it aint about management of military force. Get it?

The success or failure of this current military campaign is all about micro management of our military forces, for political reasons.

Last edited by theking; 03-30-2003, 03:25 PM.

When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html
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theking

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#48

03-30-2003, 07:32 PM

I hate it when Big Monkies hit and run.

When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

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