Best explanation for the war....Whats yours?

You definitelly right, man.
And it is pleasant, that you (american) understand that.

There are several major reasons for the war:

1) Euro vs Dollar. The OPEC countries are going to switch to EURO - that is true.
And there is a huge reason for it - American DOLLAR is a great SOAP BUBBLE. It is supported by gold equivalent by only 1/25 part !!
The total sum of the people of United Europe soon will reach 500 000 000 people - it is much more than US citizens - so there is no more reasons to sell the oil for green papers, which are not supported by ANYTHING. Euro in this case is much more stable.

So, your government afraid of it, because they understand - if OPEC will switch to EURO - american economy will collapce. YOu heard about the Marshall's plan in 1960-es ?


2) Oil.
American economy is very dependable on the oil costs. It cannot be developped effectively when oil cost are more than $15 per barrel. For now it is $30 per barrel.
As you do know, american national debt is 6.5 trillions of dollars. American import-export deficit is about 400 billions of dollars per year.
If America don't wont to get an economy collapce- it should get 2 billions of investments from outside PER DAY.
But investors don't want to invest the money to USA because of high costs of production (great part of the production costs is ENERGY - and the oil is the most important factor).
Oil in Iraq costs $0.5 per barrel - so that's why America wants to get it and go against the whole world to reach it's target.
Saddam is just an occasion.
And "chemical and biological weapons" is a fucking fake.

That's why inspectors found NOTHING - because there is NO any weapons.

3) USA want's to get the control of the such important (for USA) region in the middle east.

4) I hope you understand - if you will rape Europe for a long time - no one will want to invest the money to it's economy. And he will invest the money to USA.
That is simple as day and night.

Funny. Why have you deleted your post ??
You afraid that you have said yourself ?

blu solutions, you make joe sixpack seem like a pretty cool guy.

make it stop!!


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... jesus fucking christ, you guys will never get it. this is not, I repeat NOT, about the oil.

... mr. blair and mr. busch have already told the world that all oil money will be used in favour for iraq´s liberation. (note: they haven´t said that it will be sold at $1 per barrel though)

ITS NOT ABOUT OIL !!!

Aha, yee comon we are waiting for another joke from you

They said FOOD FOR OIL

If you think the Euro is going to replace the $ any time soon you ain't playing with a deck of 52, or maybe I should say, you are 3 short of a SixPack Keep your Euro, Rest of the World uses the dollar, and that's just the way it tis.

We can only speculate..

Greed, Freedom, Oil, etc...

Only a few will EVER know the truth...

Baaa

exactly so everybody go back to work!!!

Speaking of food, how many of you know, California (it's it the USA) could grow and or produce enough food to feed the World. read one hell of a long time ago, the next World War, will be over FOOD. All you socialists think it's going to be over OIL. I tend to believe the food theory

Stupid idiot
You know why US dollar is on such low position for now ??

BECAUSE THE WORLD IS SWITCHING TO EURO NOW !

Sometimes it's better to STFU I guess.

This war just makes me mad.. not against Bush really when you look at it on the Dollar vs. Euro scale.. Sure Bush is a cowboy, but he didn't create the current financial mess that were in.

I guess more against how everyone politicians & corporations both existing & defunct, have been stealing money from the country for the past 50+ years and have possibly put us in this position.


But as you can see (turn on the TV) were not a country who will give up without a fight or let other countries conspire against us to seal our doom.

Not literally no.

But, check the topic... I'm curious, I want to hear from other people... what do you think it is about Fatum?

Real reason is this:

Bill Gates found out that iraqies works on brand new operation system for PC called Scudows XP wich are much better then Windows XP so he wants to destroy that weapon of mass destruction! One XP is enough!

I suggest do a search then as the reasons have been presented by me and many others, multiple times. The reasons are now irrelevant as the war machine is in motion and is unstoppable.

LOL, that's an easy way out

And for the record Blu Solutions... I don't like you

You debate by categorizing everyone with a differing viewpoint as a "STUPID AMERICAN". You compare the US and other countries to Russia and their all powerfull military like our stuff is made by fisher price compared to yours... fuck the weapons anyway.

Russia has more than their fair share of problems.

dito

What kind of country are you then?

Who do you fight with?
Never thought?

Iraq was under the pressure of sanctions for 12 years, time after time has been hit by the bombs and rockets.
No medical, lack of food.....

Due to the sanctions in Iraq children were dieing (80 000 of children in a year). In iraqi hospitals there are not even oxygen-masks...

Iraqians are fighting against US forces mostly with old rifles and AK-47.
Old rifle is really "contemporary" weapon against the tomahawks and heavy air bombs... Really ...

So please, don't lie to yourself, thinking that americans are so "brave" to fight there (as Bush claimed 2 days ago).
When they encounter the iraqians forces - americans just stop and call to air force cover (bombings and so on.)

By the way - have you heard, american soldiers already crying that iraqi troops are so bad - they use sniper rifles and this is a great problem for americans..

WHAT DID YOU WANT - A BARBEQUE IN IRAQ AND ONE-DAY-WAR ??

I REALLY RESPECT IRAQI FORCES. THEY AND ONLY THEY DESERVE A "BRAVE" DEFINITION - AND THEY WILL NOT GIVE UP (REGARDLESS OF WHAT CNN LYING TO YOU.)

quote:
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Originally posted by theking


Reasons for war.

#1. Iraq was defeated on the field of battle and signed certain terms. Iraq has been in violation of those terms since they signed the terms in '91. The USA has demanded that those terms be complied with and that Iraq remain a defeated country.

#2. Iraq attempted to assasinate a former American President.

#3. Iraq has fired upon, almost daily, for almost 11 years, USA military forces.

#4. Iraq is believed to have, or are acquiring, or are attempting to acquire WMD's. The USA will not allow that.

#5. Iraq has, on multiple occassions called for Americans, to be killed where ever they are found. Thus they are a sworn enemy of the USA.

#6. Iraq is a strategic piece of real estate for future military operations against our enemies in the region, which number in the 100's of millions.

#7. Iraq is a strategic piece of real estate for its oil fields and for the surrounding oil fields, for as the worlds oil supplies dwindle the USA will be in a position to control the dwindling oil supplies for its use and the use of its European allies.

#8. A take over of Iraq sends a very powerful signal to the other countries in that area of the world that if they don't get their act together they will be next.

Any one of the reasons above is a reason for war.
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quote:
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Originally posted by theking


Proof of WMD's

During the first round of inspections after after the first gulf war, Iraq admitted that they had x number of tons/liters etc. of different types of chemical and different types of biological materials on hand as well as x number of chemical rockets/artillary rounds. The first round of inspections over saw the destruction of much of this material and weapons, but they were not allowed to finish the job. Iraq has now said that they took it upon themselves to destroy the remaining weapons and materials since 1998. They do not have the documentation to prove this and said that they destroyed the documentation when they destroyed the materials and weapons. Even if it were true that they destroyed the documentation of the destruction of the materials and weapons there would still be the physical evidence of the destruction of the these materials and weapons, which they have failed to present evidence of. There would also be those scientists and engineers etc. that would have been involved in the destruction of these materials and Iraq has failed to present these people that would have been involved in the destruction of the materials and weapons. Bottom line is they had chemical and biological materials and weapons, admitted that they had them, the first round of inpsections oversaw the destruction of much of the materials and weapons, but they were kicked out before the remaining materials and weapons were destroyed, and Iraq has yet to present one iota of proof that they in fact took it upon themselves to destroy the remaining chemical and biological materials and weapons, thus without proof that they did in fact destroy them (which is their burden as imposed in the last UN resolution) we the US and anyone with an ounce of brains must assume that they still have them, and may have even produced more of them since 1998.
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quote:
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Originally posted by theking


Some reasons why we may not be presenting clear cut proof to the UN, our "allies" and the world public.

I of course do not know what crystal clear proof may or may not exist such as photographs, but I do know that if we have black and white proof and presented that proof (even in secret to "allies") that information would have a good chance of being leaked and what are now targets would be dispersed and hidden so the opportunity to take them out will have been lost and as a result they could be used against our forces.

It has been reported that our CIA and military have outlined more than 700 targets to be hit, many of which are suspected, if not factually known to store chemical, biological materials or weapons. If we began to present this target list to the UN or to the world public or even to some of our "allies" those targets would not exist when it came time to attack them as they would have been cleaned of whatever they may now contain.

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quote:
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Originally posted by theking


We are not going it alone.

The President does not act in a vacuum and cannot act without the backing of the American people, which he has, the backing of congress, which he has (they gave him the thumbs up on Iraq several months ago), the backing of his cabinet, which he has, the backing of the justice department and the courts (the President cannot violate the constitution or the law), which he has, and at this point in time he has the backing of the UN Security Counsel (15-0). Nine countries at this point in time are committing troops, twenty-two other countries are offering other types of support. There will be more come on board before all is said and done. If I remember correctly there were only 38 countries that either committed troops and/or other types of support in the first gulf war. At this point in time we have the committment of 31 countries and counting.
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Change the number of countries supporting us in this war to 40 plus.

Funk... catch up here bro.

It's NOT about the oil per-sey. The theory is that it's about the currency that the oil is dealt in. I'm sure the gov would love to just steal it from them (back in the old old old conquerer days it would have been accpetable) but this is is a different day and age... we have to be politically correct.


So we put in new leaders over there, and suggest to them nicely that it would be better for everyone that the Iraq oil sales & reserves go back to being dealt in USD.

They can keep their oil see? So long as it's sold to US, and EVERYONE ELSE in US Dollars as it always had been prior to November of 2000.

Do you get it? We were having to convert our money to euro to buy oil from Saddam. When our money is so leveraged out & our economy is so bad... and were talking about billions of dollars, were being forced to sink this money into the EU economy.



And for what its worth.. the UK doesn't back the Euro either.

Heh, I've read all your posts before. I was referring to your statement that the reasons are now irrelevant, as the war has already started and couldn't be stopped.

"I hereby find the defendent not guilty, as the crime has already been comitted and there's nothing to be done about it"

Put these "reasons" to your ass.
The only reason is oil. And dollar.
Nothing more.

What the fuck about the weapons of mass-destruction ?
Anybody can make it- you can easily make CIRIN in your own bathroom.
AND WHAT?

FUCK those "reasons". It is a shit, that your government and your television fulfilling your stupid heads.

FUCK YOU ALL

before you talk about it just being about oil, why don't you do a cost-benefit analysis. I guarantee you there are far less risky and more lucrative ways to exploit oil than going to war.

I think you might have a comprehension disorder.

Wrong premise. The USA is not a defendent. Whatever all of the reasons are that the USA decided to use military force those reasons are and will always remain irrelevant as the military machine is in motion, is unstoppable, and the consequences (whatever they may be), are irreversible.

Alot of his reasons have to do with the oil, the land, the fact that Saddam is a menace to his own people and others.

Like I said, I think that the currency thing is a big part of it, but far from the only reason we are there.

But I think it was Washingtons 'final straw' with saddam when they figured out what he was up to with the Euro.

When the dotcoms and our market came crashing down it probably became a very high profile lucrative attack point for other governments (like Iraq)

Now... well.. theres nowhere to go but up really.

Read reason #7.

He has some me-only-readie-what-I-likey filter on on or something King.

LOL, you're a bit one-track-minded. You're starting to sound like an automaton. You should watch that

There is only one "track" to be on and that is the "track" that I, as the "engineer of my life", percieve to be the right "track". If, and when, I discover I am on the wrong "track" I will change "tracks". So, never fear, I am watching in a 360 degree radius.

Business as usual is to establish a firm foothold and presence for U.S. companies. The grants are being given out now. No doubt the aid money is a loan to the people of Iraq with their national resources as collateral. Later when the government is burdened with debt they will be receptive to WTO agreements whereby the second flood of corporate multinationals can import and sell without tariffs using export loans. Local firms will lack the resources to compete permitting almost unhindered saturation of the marketplace.

This first round is probably fairer to smaller companies wishing to gain a foothold in niche markets as they can more swiftly work around problems in communications, financing and local laws.

Not sure if this formula works in the Middle East though. Always a first time.

Some people with an office in D.C will get rich.

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/iraq.html

Peter Scott said these in the past.....but what does he know, he might be a freak canadian professor at berkeley.

Everyone has the right to believe whatever he/she wants. The truth is only one. Even if you are right or wrong, you'll experience the results of the real events whatever they are. What should worry you is the final outcome of it and how it will influence your life. This is one of the reasons I am against this war. The outcome we will experience won't be a better world, but a much worse in different levels. Keep my words.

Got em in my front left pocket.

hehehehe

of course it's nothing to do with oil..

Halliburton wins first oil contract

I don't know if Opec countries would want to sell in Euro's. I'd be *VERY* surprised if Saudi Arabia or Kuwait wanted to do this.

Probably right... Who the fuck would want Euros??? not even pornpeddlers....

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntn91685.htm

I find it highly amusing that Blu loves to insult americans when it was russia that fell the fuck apart.

must suck eh Blue? The fact you cant even win a cold war let alone a hot one?

This is the worst argument I've ever heard.

US debt is irrelevant. Yes, it's large - but as a function of GDP it's below most.

US debt/GDP = 57%
French debt/GDP = 67%
Canadain debt/GDP = 100.2%
British debt/GDP = 54%
Japanese debt/GDP = 136%
Spanish debt/GDP = 70%

etc.

U.S. GDP per capita is about 40% greater than the any other country in the western/asian world. God knows how much higher it is compared to any third world countries. If there's one stat that tells the world the U.S. economy is set to be the world leader for the foreseeable future - that's the one.

You also assert in consecutive 'points' that the a falling US dollar (cause OPEC's gonna switch baseline currency when selling oil, and this would supposedly matter... LOL) is going to hurt the econonmy, then point out the U.S. trade deficit as further evidence of doom.

Apparently you fail to recognize trade deficits are a function of currency strenth - and they work inversely. Countries with a strong currency do not export items well. Other countries can't afford their items. Likewise countries with a strong currency tend to import items as imports are cheap. The quickest way for the U.S. to reduce it's trade deficit would be for the value of the dollar to fall. There are many, many in this country (notably organized labor) that want the dollar to fall and argue such a scenario would greatly benefit the U.S. economy.

You have absolutely zero understanding of economic principles and I'd recommend you avoid using economic 'analysis' in your arguments.

Let's break it down real quick:

Bush gets his oil. [mental note: tools serve a limited purpose]
Israel gets the world.


I don't like all this speculation going around. Give it an iota of thought, and the pieces all fit. See you in 2012.

Canada GDP/debt projection 2003 : 50%

Cette dette, qui tournait autour de 550 milliards fin 2001, ne devrait tomber en dessous des 50% du PIB qu'en 2003, selon le projet de budget.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/reseau/pol...020063905.html

2001 Canada GDP/debt: 51.8%

La dette publique nette, exprimée en proportion de l?économie, se chiffre maintenant à 51,8 %, en baisse de près de 19 points de pourcentage par rapport au sommet de 70,7 % atteint en 1995-1996. À l?échelle internationale, aucun pays du G-7 n?a réduit son fardeau de la dette autant que le Canada.


http://www.fin.gc.ca/afr/2001/afr01_1f.html


Those are canadian gov websites. Wonder where you got your figures?

That's odd.

Mine came from http://www.economist.com/countries/C...conomic%20Data

WTF ? shows that there can be " doctored " numbers ....

Honestly, I don't know if any of those are true or calculated the same way.

Maybe yours is referring to all the debt Canadians have ( all levels of Gov + personnal loans + credit cards ) in % of GDP... since it says "Public debt"...

But we are not going to piss in the air over that ...

Yeah, don't really know what to think.

I'm leaving for Banff in a few hours. I'll ask when I'm up there

Its all about the Illuminati...

The outcome is decided. When the USA dies and is no longer... That event will certainly be the sign of the times when mankinds rise will begin fall. For the USA as a contenent will not be going away any time soon nor within your life times or childrens life times.

All civilizations fall its proven and will perpetually happen.

Some sooner than others. Accept that the USA will always be for quite sometime. It aint goin away.
But the Illuminati will always be behind occurances and in the minds of those in that order all decide who lives, who dies who leads and when.


nervous yet?
Now goto to sleep. Sleep with one eye open

sure thing..
as long as USA prints money without backing them in gold a cost/ benefit analyssis is worthless... the paper is cheap you know...
big deal, Federal Reserve will take care of it...
keeping USD's hegemony is the real problem.... iraq started to sell oil on euros in 6 november 2001, Syria, Iran intend to do so... now THAT's the real problem...
nobody said USA came to IRAQ to steal oil.. the came to install a puppuet government so they control the country...
making plans for Iraq after the war... I didn't hear Iraqi's asking for a reconstruction, you did?