It's NOT about Oil? What part don't you understand?

100 BIATCH!

Not normal, and probably not true either. Micheal Moore is a fuckin hypocrite and named his book after himself. His theory is that the white man is responsible forall the problems. Bullshit.

Water is wet, sky is blue, women have secrets, and money makes the world go round. Stop whining and move on with your life, as opposed to constantly complaining that "things aren't fair"

Tell that to an iraqi being beaten and tortured in baghdad. Like he cares wether someone goes to yale or not.

Kind of sounds like affirmative action.....


sorry, couldn't resist.....



Anyways, Bush, smush.......I'm not going to defend Bush. I voted for John McCain in the primary anyways, but I do support regime change. That Bush got into schools b/c of familial ties doesn't negate the need for regime change in Iraq. John F. Kennedy was beneficiary of the same kind of upper class affirmative action.

However, I will concede that Bush Jr. has made a lot of mistakes with respect to Iraq. Moreover, Bush's lack of worldly knowledge (i.e. geography, political leaders) doesn't bode well with many of our allies. If John McCain or Colin Powell--people that have extensive international experience--were in office pushing this agenda, they would have likely fared better. Having spent real time in combat and knowing where the middle east is on a map is an important step in establishing credibility.

Bush Jr., like his father, should have sent personal envoys to meet with leaders at the beginning of the crisis, rather than waiting until opposition mounted. Unfortunately, he relied on telemarketing and now we're paying the price. That being said, the FRoG (France-Russia-Germany) axis would have been opposed no matter what. The FRoG axis have far more sinister reasons for not participating in a military strike on Iraq:

Aside from being the biggest culprits in arming Iraq, violating the U.N. embargo, Iraq has long promised the axis preference for leasing contracts on Iraqi oil fields--a reward for their loyalty to the King. Moreover, how the hell will Russia get the billions owed to them from Iraq if Saddam is no longer there?

I knew I liked you Jeremy. As usual, a smart and to the point observation.

....but two wrongs don't make a right. Exactly

Check your ICQ man.

i'm assuming you've never read the book because it is not about white man being responsible for all the problems, it's merely a dialogue on the state of the nation...a well researched one at that


good points JeremySF

I've seen the movie "bowling for columbine" and his research might be good, but his conclusions suck. He operates under the beilief that people left to their own devices, will do the right thing.

That kind of thinking let Hitler take europe in 39-41, and is going to lead to an even greater mess now, if the US wasn't involving itself

I actually enjoy Michael Moore. I think he raises some good questions, but like Snapper I find his conclusions flawed.

You don't want the truth? How about you go join the mass graves with the kurds you fucking bandwaggoner.

No, he doesn't. Stop pestering the liberals with truth, it inconveniences their soapbox arguments.

I posted this on another thread, but it fits here also...
http://www.geocities.com/bushwhacked2003/

I was a student at Yale. IMX, who also posts at GFY, is a current student at Yale. After having swindled the admissions office there into "letting me in", I consider myself to be quite knowledgable on what makes a successful admissions application.

No doubt, legacy students do have more lenient admissions criteria at Yale than regular admissions students. This is a tradition that is hundreds of years old. 1701, baby! In Bush's day, there was an even greater emphasis placed on legacy student admissions. Hopefully, my children will one day be a benefactor of that same system.

I should point out though that I had friends at Yale with SAT scores similar to Bush's that were NOT legacy students.

Regardless, the question is - is it normal? I would guess that any Legacy student with a 1200 SAT and decent grades would have been accepted at Yale in the 1960's. I've never seen Bush's high school grades so I can't comment on them.

Was Bush privileged? Yes, in the sense that his father was a graduate and that pulls a lot of weight in your admissions. He was actually third generation @ Yale. Dad was also "Skull and Bones". Thousands of students are admitted into Ivy League schools every year as Legacy students. So it's quite normal in that respect. At Yale, that is normal - not abnormal.

Was his father's political power a factor in his admissions? Hardly, his father was a local Texas politician at the time of his admissions.

I've read things about the Skull and Bones... sounds like some kind of elitist group. Is it like the things associated with the movie Dead Poet's Society? - I've even read some cospiracy based stuff that points it's roots at stuff like the Stonemasons and other such cult like activity.

Juggernaut,

One of my best friends in college was tapped for "Skull & Bones". They meet in a really mysterious looking building - no windows. Every student knows the building. I heard just one story - about their first day. You have to sit in front of everyone else in the group and talk about yourself for something like three straight hours non-stop; the good, the bad, your deepest secrets, aspirations, successes, failures, your biggest fears.

I have no idea what happened after that. She never would tell me anymore. Guess they sunk their claws into her.

There are other secret societies. "Book and Snake" is another. If you have a roommate that always has something to do on Tuesday nights you start to get a little suspicious.

The Stonemasons temple has no windows.

I've yet to come to a firm understanding about the Skull and Bones... I've been reading, some of the information I've read; is pretty accurately correlated with the timeline of prominent members associated with this group.

I have no doubt the inner workings of any such society, must be kept secret, but I'm also thinking that it can't be all that secret if it's pretty well known by such a huge school like Yale.

I want to learn a bit more about it's origins and principles before I try and make sense of what it's members have to do with it... Interesting stuff, none the less.

This is an excerpt I've read, kind of chilling.

George Bush's crowning as a Bonesman was intensely, personally important to him....

Survivors of his 1948 Bones group were interviewed for a 1988 "Washington Post" campaign profile of George Bush. The members described their continuing intimacy with and financial support for Bush up through his 1980s vice presidency. Their original sexual togetherness at Yale is stressed:

The relationships that were formed in the "Tomb" ... where the Society's meetings took place each Thursday and Sunday night during the academic year, have had a strong place in Bush's life, according to all 11 of his fellow Bonsemen who are still alive.

Several described in detail the ritual in the organization that builds the bonds. Before giving his life history, each member had to spend a Sunday night reviewing his sex life in a talk known in the Tomb as CB, or "connubial bliss"....

"The first time you review your sex life.... We went all the way around among the 15, said Lucius H. Biglow Jr., a retired Seattle attorney. "That way you get everybody committed to a certain extent.... It was a gradual way of building confidence."

The sexual histories helped break down the normal defenses of the members, according to several of the members from his class. William J. Connelly Jr. ... said, "In Skull and Bones we all stand together, 15 brothers under the skin. [It is] the greatest allegiance in the world."....

why go to war.. saddam is 60+.. 10 more years and he'll go from natural causes. why go kill 1000's of innocent people and kids.

Groups forming alliances for their mutual benefit makes sense - that they would be secret makes sense too.

There have even been "secret societies" of adult webmasters. I've known of two though neither group lasted longer than a year. One of them was supported by one of the top ten sponsors - at least I think that one was secret. I can't remember ;-)

I think the same argument has been used for The Beard, but a lot of people have grown old and died waiting for Castro to kick.

With all the medical help the French have been giving Saddam, he'll likely be with us for years to come (unless of course we eliminate him).

Secret societies with members in that much power are a dangerous thing. You don't think they cover each others asses and let each other get away with hell? The best part is that their members are not only right wing, but left wing as well. They've got some strong political influence on either side.

The war might not be about oil but it is certainly a cause->effect relationship. War will make oil prices high and make me more pissed off.

And to all the people who think that we are humanitarians going to help the poor iraq citizens, you may want to rethink that. Look at how much we care for the poor Haitians. We don't. Rather we did but they no longer provided us with enough benifits and we said peace out.

i don't see how saddam can nuke us when nkorea , iran, india, and other countries have nuclear weapons. We got saddam under high surveillance... what can he possibly do? nothing... he has no option but to be a good boy from now on.. does he? i dont think so. its the other countries that we dont have inspectors in that we should be worried about. the idea of giving fear to saddam wasn't a bad idea but going to war for real.. is just.. not worth it considering the people that will be killed. imagine 10,000's of kids growing up knowing americans killed their parents.. what would you expect to make out of these kids? i say they'd ask for revange.. which would lead to more terrorism. i dont really care if these comments been said before or not, it is common sense.

STOP bumping this goddamn old fuckin thread already!

After me.

Cluck,

I did a search for depleted uranium and i found lots of articles about it.... anyways, I also found some sites saying that the
US sold biological warfare to Iraq and purposely had their own military infected with biological warfare... and that its infectious, veterans would spread it to their families, and the doctors treating them would get it too.

And it said that 50% of Gulf War Veterans Are No Longer in the Service - More Than 10,000 Are Dead ??

And that it could be part of a plan for either mass genocide or experiments from the US government? Anyone ever heard of this? I really hate to be a paranoid and conspiracy theorist like MassiveCock.... but.....

you might wanna skim this??

That's a funny article.

Some of my favorite parts ...

The US government created AIDS.

There are ancient underground alien facilities in the Middle East

The author is surprised that many soldiers that were in the military in 1991 were no longer in by 1996.
(Cue Twilight Zone music).

Yes, India does have nukes and they should. There's a balance as their enemy Pakistan also has nukes.

The fact that N.Korea and Iran have nuclear programs doesn't make it okay for Saddam to pursue nukes. Take for example N. Korea. Whether N. Korea can trully strike us with nukes is debatable. What isn't debatable is that if we used force on N. Korea they'd use force on S. Korea. Likewise if it were Saddam, we wouldn't be able to use force once he has nukes because he would have no problem nuking Israel or any other friendly neighbor.

Moreover, we need to get topple Saddam. Then move our troops from Saudi Arabia to a more western friendly Iraq. Having as many trooops in Saudi Arabia--home of Islam's most holy places--is a provactation to terrorists. Moreover, who wants to kiss the Saudis ass anyways?