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  • iroc409
    Confirmed User
    • Jan 2003
    • 4728
    #51
    Originally posted by AaronM


    One might think that you pulled that from an editorial or something...If it were not for all of the typos and shitty sentence structure.
    i do a lot of research. and i used to frequent an hk forum

    too bad these things aren't legal for home defense:

    <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a>


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      Comment

      • AaronM
        GFY Royality ;)
        • Oct 2001
        • 46917
        #52
        Just throw a brick at the intruder. Guns are bad.

          Comment

          • gregtx
            Confirmed User
            • Jan 2002
            • 1929
            #53
            HK .40 caliber makes for a great concealed firearm..

            Processing Partners http://www.processingpartners.com

              Comment

              • MetaformX
                Confirmed User
                • Mar 2002
                • 6704
                #54
                Originally posted by iroc409
                well, i guess i'll add my


                first of all, don't buy a glock. glocks indeed are reliable equipment in the 9mm range, but above that actually can be very dangerous. glocks above 9mm are rather prone to kb's (KABOOM). yes, they do explode. the 9mm is a smooth shooter, and a hardy weapon. relatively cheap, even.


                as far as a desert eagle... great for conversation and hunting, but NOT for personal defence. why? well, yes, it has a great "scare factor", but the efficiency of use is poor. the load this weapon fires is enormous. esp. in the .50 and .440 cor-bon. if you miss with your first shot, it will take you a lot longer to recover for the 2nd round. you also have to consider the collatoral damage with such a weapon. in a night encounter, the muzzle flash of the deagle is immense, which would leave both you and your assailant temporarily blind. 2 blind guys shooting in the dark isn't a good idea. you'd also have to consider its size and weight, which ovisously wouldn't be good for concealed carry.

                my personal choice, although a little more expensive then the mainstream handguns, is the HK. specifically, the .40. i'd suggest a full size, however for concealed carry they do make a nice compact. the .40 is a high-speed bullet, with less kick and good stopping power, unlike the .45 which is a slow bullet with more recoil (although all the hks fire fairly smoothly). the hk is a very dependable weapon (as shown in use by special forces - the usp). the newer hk models also offer a built-in keylock that's fairly hidden and easy to use, and a (IMHO) nicer slide release. the hks are very easy to field strip, still lightweight, and less prone to the kb of the larger caliber glocks. seriously, check these things out. the hks are generally more accurate, esp. for n00bs.

                one thing to know about both the glock and hks, due to their barrel design, you have to be rather careful with your ammunition. hk will void your warranty if you use lead bullets. a lot of people at the range use an FMJ at the bottom of each clip to keep it clean, but to be safe, use all FMJ. this is more expensive, but due to the design, lead can clog the barrel, making the firearm more suseptible to a kb.

                and lastly, PLEASE know how to use the firearm. i suggest you take some sort of training if you haven't already.

                my
                good info bro. thanx
                as far as training, yeah, definetly will get that. It is required here before you can apply for a permit.

                  Comment

                  • AaronM
                    GFY Royality ;)
                    • Oct 2001
                    • 46917
                    #55
                    Originally posted by iroc409


                    i do a lot of research. and i used to frequent an hk forum

                    too bad these things aren't legal for home defense:

                    Actually...They are. With the proper paperwork and so forth anyway.

                      Comment

                      • BV
                        wtf
                        • Sep 2001
                        • 10914
                        #56
                        Originally posted by iroc409
                        in a night encounter, the muzzle flash of the deagle is immense, which would leave both you and your assailant temporarily blind. 2 blind guys shooting in the dark isn't a good idea.
                        a 9mm's flash will also make your pupils small at night
                        always keep one eye closed when shooting in the dark

                          Comment

                          • KRL
                            Entrepreneur
                            • Oct 2002
                            • 31429
                            #57
                            These are all kick ass pieces.









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                              • AaronM
                                GFY Royality ;)
                                • Oct 2001
                                • 46917
                                #58
                                Originally posted by MetaformX


                                good info bro. thanx
                                as far as training, yeah, definetly will get that. It is required here before you can apply for a permit.

                                HA!

                                That training is a fucking joke. Come to Oregon for a week and I will break you in.

                                  Comment

                                  • MuleScrote
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Dec 2002
                                    • 4601
                                    #59
                                    Originally posted by Gutterboy
                                    s&w .357 revolver, 4" barrel.

                                    If its for home defense, get a pump 12ga shotgun. nothing in the world makes a b&e guy shit his pants faster than the sound of a shell being racked into a 12 gauge.
                                    Yup...2 bastards were trying to get in my front door. I heard a noise and looked out the peephole. They were trying to pick my lock. The place I worked at had been robbed a couple weeks earlier and I tipped the cops off and they arrested the asshole. So he had called and threatened me saying I would have some surprise visitors. So when these half-twits showed up I grabbed the shotgun and snuck up to the door. I watched out the peephole while I pumped that fucker as loud as I could. They ran away like little bitches!!
                                    ICQ 78681003

                                      Comment

                                      • SIG357
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Nov 2001
                                        • 175
                                        #60
                                        HK and Beretta are both very fine weapons - but for daily carry you can't beat a snubnosed .38.

                                          Comment

                                          • MetaformX
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Mar 2002
                                            • 6704
                                            #61
                                            this looks a little old, but I think I can over the looks pretty fast

                                              Comment

                                              • iroc409
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Jan 2003
                                                • 4728
                                                #62
                                                Originally posted by AaronM



                                                Actually...They are. With the proper paperwork and so forth anyway.
                                                yes, well, if you want to give your life to the feds.


                                                although, i *thought* these used 5.56x23mm... which is a controlled ammunition. the FN p90 and Five-seveN both use these calibers, which during the introduction was controlled... there's nothing else illegal about the 5-7 except it uses armor-piercing rounds.

                                                although i suppose with an ffa or whatever you could buy that stuff, too. AND get your happy 9mm glock converted to select-fire. or buy a glock 18. the only 2 ways i'd own a glock
                                                <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a>


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                                                  • MetaformX
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Mar 2002
                                                    • 6704
                                                    #63
                                                    Originally posted by AaronM



                                                    HA!

                                                    That training is a fucking joke. Come to Oregon for a week and I will break you in.
                                                    hehe. well hell, maybe I will do that...But I don't think that will count as far as the certification goes.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • iroc409
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Jan 2003
                                                        • 4728
                                                        #64
                                                        heh... yeah that old .30 cal would do wonders to a dozen burglars.


                                                        actually, if you want scare factor, get yourself a spas with collapsible stock (bonus points for the arm rest thinige). but, don't expect it to be reliable. old italian design they use in stuff like terminator 2, jurassic park and stuff. poor attempt at pump/semi shotgun. but the binelli m1 convertible with pistol grip and mil-spec ring sights.. perfection load round 1 non-lethal, the other 6 lethal rounds. if the first round doesn't drop em, switch over to semi and let em have 6 buckshot rounds in less than 3 seconds. you need pump for non-lethal tho, shells won't eject from an auto.
                                                        <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a>


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                                                          • AaronM
                                                            GFY Royality ;)
                                                            • Oct 2001
                                                            • 46917
                                                            #65
                                                            Originally posted by iroc409


                                                            yes, well, if you want to give your life to the feds.
                                                            They already have mine. I own 3 Class III weapons.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • AaronM
                                                                GFY Royality ;)
                                                                • Oct 2001
                                                                • 46917
                                                                #66
                                                                Originally posted by MetaformX


                                                                hehe. well hell, maybe I will do that...But I don't think that will count as far as the certification goes.
                                                                Actually, You might be surprized.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • iroc409
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Jan 2003
                                                                    • 4728
                                                                    #67
                                                                    Originally posted by AaronM


                                                                    They already have mine. I own 3 Class III weapons.

                                                                    ooh! a p90? a p90? yummy yummy....


                                                                    wait, do you know if the have a "civilian" version of the G36 yet? was looking at getting a "sportster", but after the success of that thing, thought maybe i'd go that route instead. or an aug, but those are so damn expensive, and just kinda more the "neat" factor. those g36's are unstoppable.
                                                                    <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a>


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                                                                      • lightswitch
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Feb 2001
                                                                        • 870
                                                                        #68
                                                                        Originally posted by Pointless
                                                                        why not just get a 9mm berretta

                                                                        heheh, was jsut about say, JSUT DON'T GET A BERRETTA!!!! POS!
                                                                        I speak from the experince of others & myself(I own two) its a lousy design, they jam easily & randomly. I have to buy expensive ammo, just to get faily decent results from it, & i wanted to buy expensive ammo I do it for one of my larger cal. guns.

                                                                        Home defense, hands down its the 12 gauge. + shooting skeet, & jackrabbits is fun too. they are cheap, effective, & easy to aim.

                                                                        For an entry level hand gun go with a .38 revolver, with the ported barrel. You can shoot cheap .38 shells when you target shoot, & the much more expensive .357 for home defense.
                                                                        Revolvers are far more rugged & dependable, pretty fucken hard to break a good revolver, where as must semi have @ least 50% plastic, 10 times the parts dont have to worry about springs in the clips wearing out, & no jams.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • MetaformX
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Mar 2002
                                                                            • 6704
                                                                            #69
                                                                            This sig comes with a gernade launcher
                                                                            http://securityarms.com/20010315/gal.../2400/2468.htm

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • AaronM
                                                                                GFY Royality ;)
                                                                                • Oct 2001
                                                                                • 46917
                                                                                #70
                                                                                Originally posted by iroc409



                                                                                ooh! a p90? a p90? yummy yummy....


                                                                                wait, do you know if the have a "civilian" version of the G36 yet? was looking at getting a "sportster", but after the success of that thing, thought maybe i'd go that route instead. or an aug, but those are so damn expensive, and just kinda more the "neat" factor. those g36's are unstoppable.
                                                                                Nope, none of those although I am seriously considering an Aug.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • SIG357
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Nov 2001
                                                                                    • 175
                                                                                    #71
                                                                                    For an entry level hand gun go with a .38 revolver
                                                                                    Revolvers are far more rugged & dependable, pretty fucken hard to break a good revolver,

                                                                                    The man speaks the truth.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • iroc409
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Jan 2003
                                                                                        • 4728
                                                                                        #72
                                                                                        anything steyr seems to be incredibly high. that tmp is pretty cool too, but only if you have a suppressor on it ;P. i missed out, i was going to go to a local class on the mp5. they had several variations, i *think* of which included the sd. you paid a fairly small price, and bought like 1000 rds, and you were good to go. i shoulda gone.

                                                                                        think they'll make us little folks a g36? might be a major redesign with the collapsable stock, tho. i doubt an aug would be a bad choice by any means, but i always just thought of it like more expensive "sportster".
                                                                                        <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a>


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                                                                                          • MetaformX
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Mar 2002
                                                                                            • 6704
                                                                                            #73
                                                                                            Okay, the majority opinion is either a shotgun or a SIG?
                                                                                            I would be more inclined to get the SIG....The question is, which SIG should I get?

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • lightswitch
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Feb 2001
                                                                                                • 870
                                                                                                #74
                                                                                                Originally posted by Pipecrew
                                                                                                I would like this, I wonder if its legal in canada

                                                                                                http://www.securityarms.com/20010315.../1600/1606.htm
                                                                                                Thats almost liek mine cept i have a custome but stock & grip, & a S.S. 1" Comp. Target barrel. Its so easy to shoot its almost boring.
                                                                                                Have a 4x50 red dot scope hanging off to the left side of the gun for rought spotting, & then a 9-20 x50 leipould on top. the hand rest is simular,but has bipod attached. took the lazer off because it sucked @ was never accurate @ the distances I shoot @.

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • Gutterboy
                                                                                                    So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                    • Jul 2002
                                                                                                    • 4751
                                                                                                    #75
                                                                                                    The .38 is a great entry level if you're a 96 pound woman.

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • iroc409
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Jan 2003
                                                                                                        • 4728
                                                                                                        #76
                                                                                                        Originally posted by MetaformX
                                                                                                        Okay, the majority opinion is either a shotgun or a SIG?
                                                                                                        I would be more inclined to get the SIG....The question is, which SIG should I get?
                                                                                                        probably the HK .40 s&w compact.
                                                                                                        <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a>


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                                                                                                          • SIG357
                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                            • Nov 2001
                                                                                                            • 175
                                                                                                            #77
                                                                                                            Get the SIG229 - it shoots multiple calibers and SIGs are extremely reliable. I would first suggest, however, a revolver for ultimate reliability - read: subnosed .38 SW. lightweight versions.

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • lightswitch
                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                • 870
                                                                                                                #78
                                                                                                                Originally posted by MetaformX
                                                                                                                Okay, the majority opinion is either a shotgun or a SIG?
                                                                                                                I would be more inclined to get the SIG....The question is, which SIG should I get?
                                                                                                                Dont get a gun just because you think it looks cool, handle the fucker, go to a range & rent one. shoot the fucker. if youve never shot before, youll soon realize how fucken hard it is to hit something with a handgun. If your serious about home defense go with the gauge. another thing to concider is are you jsut gonna look @ teh thing or are you gonan target shoot with it?
                                                                                                                bigger teh .cal the more $, ammo isnt cheap.
                                                                                                                Wher are you located, if your in CA your fucked you bought you gun 3 years too late, & certainly 3 months too late for a handgun. goto a gunshow. Pick up a gun that wont be registered in your name. If you think your gonna keep this thing in your car & your in a state like CA, your asking for trouble there too

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • iroc409
                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                    • Jan 2003
                                                                                                                    • 4728
                                                                                                                    #79
                                                                                                                    it sucks, there's no concealed carry, not even a permit in my state

                                                                                                                    they're trying to get that handled tho, and possibly allow everyone to cc. yay!
                                                                                                                    <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a>


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                                                                                                                      • MetaformX
                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                        • Mar 2002
                                                                                                                        • 6704
                                                                                                                        #80
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by lightswitch
                                                                                                                        Wher are you located, if your in CA your fucked you bought you gun 3 years too late, & certainly 3 months too late for a handgun. goto a gunshow. Pick up a gun that wont be registered in your name. If you think your gonna keep this thing in your car & your in a state like CA, your asking for trouble there too
                                                                                                                        well, I'm in utah now, but will be moving to CA soon (prolly within 6-12 months)

                                                                                                                        I know CA is way liberal, but I always thought it was a gun friendly state?

                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • assneck
                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                            • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                            • 220
                                                                                                                            #81
                                                                                                                            salam metaformx, man tosieh mikonam keh sig p232 bekhereen. beh nezereh man p232 behtereen sig ast choon kheely geroon neest va koochik ham hast. mitooni oono beh aasooni pehnaan koni.

                                                                                                                            - assneck
                                                                                                                            Ultimate Topsite System

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                                                                                                                              • FuzzBuzz
                                                                                                                                Registered User
                                                                                                                                • May 2001
                                                                                                                                • 95
                                                                                                                                #82
                                                                                                                                you americans are fucking crazy :D

                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                  • FuzzBuzz
                                                                                                                                    Registered User
                                                                                                                                    • May 2001
                                                                                                                                    • 95
                                                                                                                                    #83
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by MuleScrote


                                                                                                                                    Yup...2 bastards were trying to get in my front door. I heard a noise and looked out the peephole. They were trying to pick my lock. The place I worked at had been robbed a couple weeks earlier and I tipped the cops off and they arrested the asshole. So he had called and threatened me saying I would have some surprise visitors. So when these half-twits showed up I grabbed the shotgun and snuck up to the door. I watched out the peephole while I pumped that fucker as loud as I could. They ran away like little bitches!!

                                                                                                                                    hahahaha, chuick chuick

                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                      • Pointless
                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                        • Jan 2003
                                                                                                                                        • 2142
                                                                                                                                        #84


                                                                                                                                        355 north
                                                                                                                                        Adultdatelink.com

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                                                                                                                                          • AaronM
                                                                                                                                            GFY Royality ;)
                                                                                                                                            • Oct 2001
                                                                                                                                            • 46917
                                                                                                                                            #85
                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by MetaformX
                                                                                                                                            Okay, the majority opinion is either a shotgun or a SIG?
                                                                                                                                            I would be more inclined to get the SIG....The question is, which SIG should I get?

                                                                                                                                            P229

                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                              • lightswitch
                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                • 870
                                                                                                                                                #86
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by MetaformX


                                                                                                                                                well, I'm in utah now, but will be moving to CA soon (prolly within 6-12 months)

                                                                                                                                                I know CA is way liberal, but I always thought it was a gun friendly state?
                                                                                                                                                are you a moron?
                                                                                                                                                CA is the most un gun freindly state there is!

                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                  • iroc409
                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                    • Jan 2003
                                                                                                                                                    • 4728
                                                                                                                                                    #87
                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by lightswitch
                                                                                                                                                    are you a moron?
                                                                                                                                                    CA is the most un gun freindly state there is!

                                                                                                                                                    i'd have to say texas. yeah, aren't they the most friendly?


                                                                                                                                                    oh yeah, i forgot. there is no concealed carry laws in my state, but there is absolutely NOTHING banning me from walking around with a fully visible piece in a holster. 'cept in a bank, of course
                                                                                                                                                    <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a>


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                                                                                                                                                      • lightswitch
                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                        • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                        • 870
                                                                                                                                                        #88
                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by iroc409



                                                                                                                                                        i'd have to say texas. yeah, aren't they the most friendly?


                                                                                                                                                        oh yeah, i forgot. there is no concealed carry laws in my state, but there is absolutely NOTHING banning me from walking around with a fully visible piece in a holster. 'cept in a bank, of course
                                                                                                                                                        UN, with note teh UN, as in NON friendly. CA is the model for all gun control laws, some of you people are confused Liberal is defined as: NO GUNS, & it sucks they should all be shot!

                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                          • MetaformX
                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                            • Mar 2002
                                                                                                                                                            • 6704
                                                                                                                                                            #89
                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by lightswitch
                                                                                                                                                            are you a moron?
                                                                                                                                                            no, I am not a mormon

                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                              • MetaformX
                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                • Mar 2002
                                                                                                                                                                • 6704
                                                                                                                                                                #90
                                                                                                                                                                assneck, you speak persian bro??

                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                  • Gutterboy
                                                                                                                                                                    So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                    • Jul 2002
                                                                                                                                                                    • 4751
                                                                                                                                                                    #91
                                                                                                                                                                    Really, California sucks for guns. Take the advice and buy something at a gunshow in another state that cannot be traced to you, and bring it in with you.

                                                                                                                                                                    I know people will argue that law abiding citizens have nothing to fear, but really.. do you want to be in posession of a firearm that could be traced straight back to your address with a quick run of the serial# or a ballistics check?

                                                                                                                                                                    Fuck that.

                                                                                                                                                                    Call me paranoid, but the less paperwork a bunch of State law enforcement agencies have on your ass the better.

                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                      • assneck
                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                        • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                                                        • 220
                                                                                                                                                                        #92
                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by MetaformX
                                                                                                                                                                        assneck, you speak persian bro??
                                                                                                                                                                        ya some, im white i just learned some.
                                                                                                                                                                        Ultimate Topsite System

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                                                                                                                                                                          • lightswitch
                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                            • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                                            • 870
                                                                                                                                                                            #93
                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Gutterboy
                                                                                                                                                                            Really, California sucks for guns. Take the advice and buy something at a gunshow in another state that cannot be traced to you, and bring it in with you.

                                                                                                                                                                            I know people will argue that law abiding citizens have nothing to fear, but really.. do you want to be in posession of a firearm that could be traced straight back to your address with a quick run of the serial# or a ballistics check?

                                                                                                                                                                            Fuck that.

                                                                                                                                                                            Call me paranoid, but the less paperwork a bunch of State law enforcement agencies have on your ass the better.

                                                                                                                                                                            I see a slightly differnt writing on the wall. Its just a matter of time before guns are licenced like cars! & cost $ to renew each year, thats where the next gun control is gonna be, those anti gun fuckers are gonna hit us in the wallets, I have a beautiful collection that was started in my family three generations ago. & fuck if im gonna pay $ every year just to maintain the right to own them, BUt sadly its gonna happen to licenced guns.

                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                              • PhotoShopGuy
                                                                                                                                                                                So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                • Jan 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                • 222
                                                                                                                                                                                #94
                                                                                                                                                                                Just get a mossberg or winchester 12 guage pump with a pistol grip, and be happy with it. you dont need a handgun, its not that great for home defense and you'll probably kill somebody with it, not always the person you mean to harm. You dont really want to shoot someone, no matter what the situation. Hopefully when they hear the pump action, you wont have to actualy shoot them.

                                                                                                                                                                                It true that if someone breaks in, they are NOT coming for a social visit... but do you really want the legal hassle that goes with killing someone, even in self defense? Get the 12 guage.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                  • FlyingIguana
                                                                                                                                                                                    aspiring banker
                                                                                                                                                                                    • Mar 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                    • 10870
                                                                                                                                                                                    #95
                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by PhotoShopGuy
                                                                                                                                                                                    Just get a mossberg or winchester 12 guage pump with a pistol grip, and be happy with it. you dont need a handgun, its not that great for home defense and you'll probably kill somebody with it, not always the person you mean to harm. You dont really want to shoot someone, no matter what the situation. Hopefully when they hear the pump action, you wont have to actualy shoot them.

                                                                                                                                                                                    It true that if someone breaks in, they are NOT coming for a social visit... but do you really want the legal hassle that goes with killing someone, even in self defense? Get the 12 guage.
                                                                                                                                                                                    if they break into your house and you shoot them, tough luck for them. as long as you don't shoot them while they're trying to get away you should be fine.

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                                                                                                                                                                                      • DarkJedi
                                                                                                                                                                                        No Refunds Issued.
                                                                                                                                                                                        • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                        • 28301
                                                                                                                                                                                        #96

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