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Fletch XXX

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#1

Content Providers: Hosted Galleries

02-22-2003, 08:27 AM

More and more hosted galleries I find are nothing more than some punk buying a set for $35 bucks and basically ruining the value of the content for anyone else who might own it since they offer the content as well as hosted galleries to their affiliates.

I think this is bullshit and again wanted to bring this up to the content providers on this board, since I have seen some of you defend your product here, ill toss it up again.

I do not see why its justified that I go buy a set from lets say BlahContent, and some program owner does the same except instead of putting it in their member section, they pump out a 20 pic hosted gallery for tgp owners - and beg affiliates to use the content and use the galleries.

I thought sponsors were supposed to use exclusive content for affiliates?

I brought up this loophole a long time ago, <a href=http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77873>here's the thread </a>

and it looks like more than ever people like me who buy content are getting fucked by the greedy program owners who are either too dumb to know the rules or naive enough to not give a fuck.

The more content I buy, the more content sites I dig into I see where some of the people are getting their content, and how is it cool to buy a $35 set and do this?

I can remember it was a big 'no no' a few months back.

I have seen AaronM come on here and get mad regarding some guy using too many images in a tgp or something (he can clarify that, just an example I remembered that leads me to believe these assholes are bringing down the value of the content)

Content providers, Your thoughts?

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hershie

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#2

02-22-2003, 08:42 AM

i put specific language in my License prohibiting hosted galleries for that very reason.
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Spunky

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#3

02-22-2003, 08:46 AM

I find with most sponsors they only have like 20 or 30 sets of galleries .I post maybe 5 per day and then run out of content to promote.I dont want to keep posting the same galleries over and over again.

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Fletch XXX

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#4

02-22-2003, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by spunky1
I find with most sponsors they only have like 20 or 30 sets of galleries .I post maybe 5 per day and then run out of content to promote.I dont want to keep posting the same galleries over and over again.

And this is relevant how?

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02-22-2003, 08:51 AM

i should add that it wasn't until i read that earlier thread that the lightbulb went off in my head about that grey area not being covered, so that was a very valuable topic you raised. Appreciated.
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#6

02-22-2003, 08:52 AM

We don't allow any hosted galleries or promotion to affiliate webmasters with our content. We also don't have any license available for it. This would burn the content so fast if major affiliate would spread it to thousands of affiliates. This would simply drop the value of our content since it would be everywhere.

Also I promess a reward to anyone who found an affiliate running our content in hosted or giving them to their affiliates.

Last edited by Braincash Fred; 02-22-2003, 08:54 AM.
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Fletch XXX

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#7

02-22-2003, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by hershie
i should add that it wasn't until i read that earlier thread that the lightbulb went off in my head about that grey area not being covered, so that was a very valuable topic you raised. Appreciated.

Then it was worth it.

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#8

02-22-2003, 08:55 AM

Interesting perspective Fletch. Thanks for raising it...

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#9

02-22-2003, 08:57 AM

WE don't allow our content to be used on hosted galleries either. The only content we sell for that is generally then taken off the market or the price is dropped to reflect the devaluing by overexposure.

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#10

02-22-2003, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by AC fred
We don't allow any hosted galleries or promotion to affiliate webmasters with our content. We also don't have any license available for it. This would burn the content so fast if major affiliate would spread it to thousands of affiliates. This would simply drop the value of our content since it would be everywhere.

Also I promess a reward to anyone who found an affiliate running our content in hosted or giving them to their affiliates.

So are you saying that your content is strictly for pay sites??

If we are just running galleries for sponsor sites, and all their content/hosted galleries are oversaturated what is our solution??

We are getting into the Adult stuff and want to offer galleries to our sponsor links and would like to have content that is fresh. What would you recommend??

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#11

02-22-2003, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

And this is relevant how?

Thought this was about hosted galleries.

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#12

02-22-2003, 09:14 AM

Good point. Glad someone finally brings this up.

I don't think people realize when you buy content, you are just purchasing a LICENSE to use that content. A license which stipulates how many domains you can even use the content on.

Its not your content, you just buy the license to use it.

Unless you purchase EXCLUSIVE content, then you can do what you like with the content. But paying $35 for a set of content and then whoring it out through hosted galleries is just bad all around.

But most webmasters are cheap, and don't care, so they are doing this hosted gallery thing.

Its really a bummer cause I have seen some really nice sets of content that I have purchased license for being used in hosted galleries which SUCKS because some other loser is whoring out these pics and the $$$ I spent on licensing them for a few domains is now going down the drain. Lowering the value of the images.
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#13

02-22-2003, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by spunky1

Thought this was about hosted galleries.

Kinda.

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#14

02-22-2003, 09:16 AM

I don't even get this.

How is buying a set of pics, building a gallery and letting 1000 TGP owners list it and crediting them with half the money any different than me buying a set of pics, building a gallery, submitting it to 1000 TGP's and keeping all the money?

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#15

02-22-2003, 09:24 AM

From a legal stand point, i don't see the difference between a TGP Gallery and a Paysite Tour.

They are both pages showing pictures with the intend of making a sale.

If your license allows the licensee to use the pictures to build his "paysite page", there is nothing that can restraint him from building a "tgp page". This is the same thing, only the format/layout is different.

As far as i know, you can link to the "paysite page", so i don't see why you can restraint to link to the "tgp page".

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#16

02-22-2003, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by FATPad
I don't even get this.

How is buying a set of pics, building a gallery and letting 1000 TGP owners list it and crediting them with half the money any different than me buying a set of pics, building a gallery, submitting it to 1000 TGP's and keeping all the money?

Cuz you can't buy a $35 set of content for your paysite, and then give it out to 1,000 webmaster affiliates to make galleries with. Most content producers say no to this, unless its exclusive content.

the loophole is the hosted gallery thing.... its sort of new ya know.

I guess its ultimately up to the content providers on this one.
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#17

02-22-2003, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by CosmicKitten
But most webmasters are cheap, and don't care, so they are doing this hosted gallery thing.

Its really a bummer cause I have seen some really nice sets of content that I have purchased license for being used in hosted galleries which SUCKS because some other loser is whoring out these pics and the $$$ I spent on licensing them for a few domains is now going down the drain. Lowering the value of the images.

So its the webmasters ( or loser as you call them )fault for using them? The problem is with the provider.Why would I pay for content if it becomes fired through my main page in 4 hours?

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#18

02-22-2003, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by FATPad
I don't even get this.

How is buying a set of pics, building a gallery and letting 1000 TGP owners list it and crediting them with half the money any different than me buying a set of pics, building a gallery, submitting it to 1000 TGP's and keeping all the money?

Because when ONE person has the content and is doing that, the liklihood that the content will become overexposed and therefore drop it's value is STILL less than if you have 1000 people posting it 1000 times. Do the math. As soon as someone uses content for hosted galleries, it is no longer worth as much on the market.

Who wants to pay full price for an image set that is being used by 1000 other people guaranteed, when most content providers have a limit to the number of times they license an image set before they drop the price to reflect it's value, or remove it from sale altogether. Would you?

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#19

02-22-2003, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

Because when ONE person has the content and is doing that, the liklihood that the content will become overexposed and therefore drop it's value is STILL less than if you have 1000 people posting it 1000 times. Do the math. As soon as someone uses content for hosted galleries, it is no longer worth as much on the market.

Who wants to pay full price for an image set that is being used by 1000 other people guaranteed, when most content providers have a limit to the number of times they license an image set before they drop the price to reflect it's value, or remove it from sale altogether. Would you?

I agree, but this is the licensor problem, not the licensee's.
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#20

02-22-2003, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by CosmicKitten

Cuz you can't buy a $35 set of content for your paysite, and then give it out to 1,000 webmaster affiliates to make galleries with. Most content producers say no to this, unless its exclusive content.

the loophole is the hosted gallery thing.... its sort of new ya know.

I guess its ultimately up to the content providers on this one.

Your first paragraph has nothing to do with hosted galleries.

Your second paragraph doesn't explain the difference between buy a set of pics, building a gallery, and letting 1000 TGP owners list it for a cut of the money and a single person buying a set of pics, building a gallery, paying for a listing on 1000 TGP's and keeping all the money.

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#21

02-22-2003, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

Because when ONE person has the content and is doing that, the liklihood that the content will become overexposed and therefore drop it's value is STILL less than if you have 1000 people posting it 1000 times. Do the math. As soon as someone uses content for hosted galleries, it is no longer worth as much on the market.

Who wants to pay full price for an image set that is being used by 1000 other people guaranteed, when most content providers have a limit to the number of times they license an image set before they drop the price to reflect it's value, or remove it from sale altogether. Would you?

1000 people can't post the same content on 1000 different TGP's.

Once a set is listed a few times usually, they stop listing that particular set.

But I get your point. ;)

I still don't think hosted galleries are all that bad. *shrugs*

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#22

02-22-2003, 09:31 AM

I understand perfectly why some content providers won't allow the content to be used on hosted galleries.

Would they mind if I made a clean, recipless gallery off that content. Submit it to thousands of TGP's. Then as time passes, and I do that every day. I have a huge list of clean, quality galleries ppl COULD use on their TGP's.. they just wouldn't get paid for it. Would that be ok? It's not all just black and white regarding hosted galleries. When you submit a gallery to someone, you host it, you and the sponsor get money from it.. right?

Then, why not host the gallery, let people link to it.. you're the sponsor, and a webmaster gets money. It's the same result, no?

I wouldn't use content in hosted galleries before I ask the content provider if it's ok first though (even if it's not mentioned in the license).

the licenses should be clearer if you don't want content to be used in hosted galleries. They specify that you can't use it in more than, let's say 2 domains.. what if I use it on my paysite, and another domain that's just for hosted galleries.. that's 2 domains, and within your rules.

..and I'm off.
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#23

02-22-2003, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by CosmicKitten
Good point. Glad someone finally brings this up.

I don't think people realize when you buy content, you are just purchasing a LICENSE to use that content. A license which stipulates how many domains you can even use the content on.

Its not your content, you just buy the license to use it.

Unless you purchase EXCLUSIVE content, then you can do what you like with the content. But paying $35 for a set of content and then whoring it out through hosted galleries is just bad all around.

But most webmasters are cheap, and don't care, so they are doing this hosted gallery thing.

Its really a bummer cause I have seen some really nice sets of content that I have purchased license for being used in hosted galleries which SUCKS because some other loser is whoring out these pics and the $$$ I spent on licensing them for a few domains is now going down the drain. Lowering the value of the images.

Even with exclusive content, generally people pay more for exclusive content AND specialized licensing for affiliate use, do they not? Exclusive content licenses sometimes DO have a time limit for exclusivity (such as one year, this is generally worked out beforehand) . Sometimes this content isn't used for affiliate use either. More often than not the content used for affiliate comes with a lifetime license. This costs more.

Although, there is always a problem when people purchase content and use them in hosted galleries without the content provider knowing. This can and does happen. It always pays to check around

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#24

02-22-2003, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by FATPad
1000 people can't post the same content on 1000 different TGP's.

Once a set is listed a few times usually, they stop listing that particular set.

But I get your point. ;)

I still don't think hosted galleries are all that bad. *shrugs*

I don't have a problem with hosted galleries either, as long as the content is either a) exclusively purchased for that use and b) has proper licensing.

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#25

02-22-2003, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by x582

I agree, but this is the licensor problem, not the licensee's.

It is if the content is not being used according to the license agreement that was purchased for it. That affects not only the content providers, but everyone who's ever purchased that picture set. It devalues THEIR purchase. It's sort of like shoplifting, everyone ends up paying for it in the end.

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#26

02-22-2003, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

I don't have a problem with hosted galleries either, as long as the content is either a) exclusively purchased for that use and b) has proper licensing.

If I buy a set of pics that comes with a stanard license that says I can use them on one domain and I build a bunch of hosted galleries on one domain, I haven't broken any license agreement.

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#27

02-22-2003, 09:38 AM

I'm willing to bet most content providers are not too keen on having their sets used in hosted galleries.

Unless its exclusive content.

Hosted galleries get a ton more exposure than regular galleries you build yourself to promote whatever.

Content providers price their content according to its exposure. The more exposure, the more surfers see the content all over, the less the content is worth.

Older sets of content are usually discounted for this reason.

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#28

02-22-2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by FATPad
If I buy a set of pics that comes with a stanard license that says I can use them on one domain and I build a bunch of hosted galleries on one domain, I haven't broken any license agreement.

If you're allowing affiliates to use them, I would say this would violate the regular license agreement. Being as those affiliate are not you or your company or whomever the license directly deals with.

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#29

02-22-2003, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

If you're allowing affiliates to use them, I would say this would violate the regular license agreement. Being as those affiliate are not you or your company or whomever the license directly deals with.

No. They're just linking to galleries on MY domain. Just as regular TGP's would if I submitted to them. What's the difference?

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#30

02-22-2003, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

If you're allowing affiliates to use them, I would say this would violate the regular license agreement. Being as those affiliate are not you or your company or whomever the license directly deals with.

Why?

The pics are on the domain specified in the agreement. People are linking to galleries on that domain using those pics.

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#31

02-22-2003, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

It is if the content is not being used according to the license agreement that was purchased for it. That affects not only the content providers, but everyone who's ever purchased that picture set. It devalues THEIR purchase. It's sort of like shoplifting, everyone ends up paying for it in the end.

If it's against the license, i totally agree.
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#32

02-22-2003, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

If you're allowing affiliates to use them, I would say this would violate the regular license agreement. Being as those affiliate are not you or your company or whomever the license directly deals with.

Like i said above:

From a legal stand point, i don't see the difference between a TGP Gallery and a Paysite Tour.

They are both pages showing pictures with the intend of making a sale.

If your license allows the licensee to use the pictures to build his "paysite page", there is nothing that can restraint him from building a "tgp page". This is the same thing, only the format/layout is different.

As far as i know, affiliates can link to the "paysite page", so i don't see why you can restraint the affiliates to link to the "tgp page".
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#33

02-22-2003, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by TeenGodFather

No. They're just linking to galleries on MY domain. Just as regular TGP's would if I submitted to them. What's the difference?

The difference is that THOSE people don't have a license agreement and haven't paid the fees.

If everyone were to have the attitude of "what's the difference", essentially content providers wouldn't be able to do business. Think about this a minute, it's supply and demand. If I'm supplying you with a product, and you turn around and let everyone use that product, and I make no money and can't afford to manufacture the product, what happens when you want to buy another one?

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#34

02-22-2003, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

The difference is that THOSE people don't have a license agreement and haven't paid the fees.

If everyone were to have the attitude of "what's the difference", essentially content providers wouldn't be able to do business. Think about this a minute, it's supply and demand. If I'm supplying you with a product, and you turn around and let everyone use that product, and I make no money and can't afford to manufacture the product, what happens when you want to buy another one?

Why would people need to have a license agreement to link to my galleries?

Do your affiliates have licenses for linking to the content on your tour page?

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#35

02-22-2003, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

The difference is that THOSE people don't have a license agreement and haven't paid the fees.

They don't have licences either if I submit my gallery to them.
Again, what's the difference?

..and I'm off.
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#36

02-22-2003, 09:48 AM

So now if I buy a set of pics, build a gallery and submit it to Thumbzilla, Shemp and The Hun, they all have to get license agreements to link to my gallery?

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#37

02-22-2003, 09:50 AM

This is why its called a 'loophole.'

It hasnt been stated if its truly wrong yet, that is why this is a discussion.

No one is right or wrong here, its ultimately going to be up to the content providers.

My guess would be that it seems to be the general response from content providers that they do not like hosted galleries using content, etc..

So what fatPad, or Tgf, or even me say doesnt matter one damn fuck, since no matter what their license is what dictates what can and cannot be done.

I would say more and more content providers will add this to their license, then we wont have anything to argue about over this, will we?

im going to smoke some herbs now.

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#38

02-22-2003, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by FATPad
Why would people need to have a license agreement to link to my galleries?

Do your affiliates have licenses for linking to the content on your tour page?

Exactly what i've been saying all along.

I know some sites that are linking directly to my paysite tour. Is that forbidden? No of course!

Why would it be for a different type of page, called a tgp gallery? It is on my server, on my domain.
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#39

02-22-2003, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by x582

Like i said above:

From a legal stand point, i don't see the difference between a TGP Gallery and a Paysite Tour.

They are both pages showing pictures with the intend of making a sale.

If your license allows the licensee to use the pictures to build his "paysite page", there is nothing that can restraint him from building a "tgp page". This is the same thing, only the format/layout is different.

As far as i know, affiliates can link to the "paysite page", so i don't see why you can restraint the affiliates to link to the "tgp page".

Paysite pages are a bit of a different animal. If you run a paysite, people know who to go to if they have a problem, correct? You have an agreement with your provider, it's all good. You have a license that you have committed yourself to uphold, and in essence you are responsible for what happens to the images while they are covered by said agreement. Are you going to be responsible for the use that affiliates are making of them as well? They are OUTSIDE the scope of that legal agreement.

As long as people abide by their licensing agreements (and not abuse them), content providers can continue to ensure that the quality of product they are offering to their customers is top notch, and isn't overexposed or being used in a manner that it demeans the value of their purchase, and essentially their trust as a customer. As soon as people start saying "What does it matter" it makes ALL of our jobs harder as content providers.

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#40

02-22-2003, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by FATPad
So now if I buy a set of pics, build a gallery and submit it to Thumbzilla, Shemp and The Hun, they all have to get license agreements to link to my gallery?

Are they making a % of $ you earned from those images? No.

If anything you might purchase a slot on their sites, but they still are not profiting from the actual images.
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#41

02-22-2003, 09:52 AM

It's pretty simple, ask your provider and work your deals, I have and I have no issues, I have deals with all the guys that I use.

In-fact I am the only one who has asked this question to the content guys I use, they are surprised that I even asked them in the first place.

I have one content guy who said no way no how to doing this, his links were pulled down and that is that.

Now what sucks is that everyone else is still using his content for hosted pages and I have to compete against them, so for being the honest guy I get the short end of the stick.

So for the content guys who don't like the hosted pages I have to buy TGP spots for it instead, the end result is the same.

I also use exclusive content like this along with the normal stuff.

And the other thing is most people just steal the content and submit it anyway?

Regards,

Kevin

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www.glamourmodelsgonebad.com
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FATPad

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#42

02-22-2003, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by CosmicKitten

Are they making a % of $ you earned from those images? No.

If anything you might purchase a slot on their sites, but they still are not profiting from the actual images.

Acording to that, your affiliates now need licenses to link to your tour, unless your tour has no pics on it.

<a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>
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Jakke PNG

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#43

02-22-2003, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by CosmicKitten

Are they making a % of $ you earned from those images? No.

If anything you might purchase a slot on their sites, but they still are not profiting from the actual images.

That brings it to a new level.
If I buy a set of pictures for the sole purpose of promoting a site.. should the site I will be promoting have a licence to MY pictures I use? By your logic, yes. They'll be making profit from pictures I have licensed.

..and I'm off.
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CosmicKitten

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#44

02-22-2003, 09:54 AM

um last I checked, most paysite tours don't really consist of links to dozens of free uncensored images.

Any smart webmaster knows that too many free pics on a tour isn't the best thing to do.
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LadyMischief

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#45

02-22-2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by TeenGodFather

They don't have licences either if I submit my gallery to them.
Again, what's the difference?

You folks like to twist words If YOU submit the gallery, YOU are still taking responsibility for what it is that you're submitting, and YOu can still be legally responsible for what you do with those images, as well as being able to provide proper custodial information.

As for linking to a tour page, if it is a page that you directly control what happens to (as with galleries you can't always control where someone is posting galleries), then you can still be responsible for what happens to it. It's not neccessarily the VIEWS that are the problem, it's the APPLICATION of those views that determine the scope of responsibility.

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x582

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#46

02-22-2003, 09:55 AM

It isn't a loophole.

A "hosted gallery", is the same thing as a "hosted paysite tour".

Even if its written in the license, i am sure it can be fought in court. You cannot discriminate who can link and who cannot link to your content. Well, i will have to check with my lawyer. A link is a link, that's it.
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CosmicKitten

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#47

02-22-2003, 09:57 AM

why would you use content to promote a paysite if you don't even know if they have those images inside?

would that not create chargeback issues?

damn this is getting too complicated now you guys
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x582

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#48

02-22-2003, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by LadyMischief

Paysite pages are a bit of a different animal. If you run a paysite, people know who to go to if they have a problem, correct? You have an agreement with your provider, it's all good. You have a license that you have committed yourself to uphold, and in essence you are responsible for what happens to the images while they are covered by said agreement. Are you going to be responsible for the use that affiliates are making of them as well? They are OUTSIDE the scope of that legal agreement.

As long as people abide by their licensing agreements (and not abuse them), content providers can continue to ensure that the quality of product they are offering to their customers is top notch, and isn't overexposed or being used in a manner that it demeans the value of their purchase, and essentially their trust as a customer. As soon as people start saying "What does it matter" it makes ALL of our jobs harder as content providers.

the affiliate are not "doing" anything to this tgp page. they are only linking to it. it is on my servers and my domain and i have the control over it.
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LadyMischief

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#49

02-22-2003, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by TeenGodFather

That brings it to a new level.
If I buy a set of pictures for the sole purpose of promoting a site.. should the site I will be promoting have a licence to MY pictures I use? By your logic, yes. They'll be making profit from pictures I have licensed.

Again it falls in a realm of responsibility. What you do with the images within the scope of the license is fine, as long as you are willing to take responsbility for the use of the images etc etc. You are promoting FOR them, they are not using the images, YOU are, therefore YOU are responsible for them and the license agreement is with YOU.

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Jakke PNG

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#50

02-22-2003, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by CosmicKitten
why would you use content to promote a paysite if you don't even know if they have those images inside?

would that not create chargeback issues?

No.
I can promote a fat-chick paysite with pretty much any fat-chick pics, no? Or.. teensite with any teen pictures? Otherwise I have to join the paysite, see what sets they have and then try to find those for licensing?? You do that?!

..and I'm off.
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