Colin Powell Speech

jammyjenkins,
Terrorism works because we allow it to.

Perfect example: In the 70's when hijackings started big, they usually had a list of prisoners that they wanted to be let go. What they should have done was found all the people on the list and put a bullet in their head. But they let them get away with it instead.

It is now time to find these people where ever they are and kill them!

You can't compare drugs to terrorism. It's two different things.

If I was worth a billion dollars I could disappear too. We cant stop everything, ignore everything until we find one man. And dont think they arent still looking.

And what is wrong with that?

Rather the Americans then the ragheads.

My

my analogy was that both are unwinnable wars

unless America is going to resort to Soviet style control of it's borders and population, terrorism can never be stopped

terrorism is really just crime anyway, just with political motivations, and usually on a larger scale

But it is just crime, and for that reason, without 100% popupation control, can never be completely stopped.

But a large percentage of it can be prevented, Prevent what you can, that is all that can be done.

there has to be a comprimise somewhere

you can't (or wouldn't want to) control the population 100%

starting 'wars against terrorism' can inflame an already bad situation, if handled the wrong way

by bringing so much attention to itself, the US is directing even more negative feeling toward itself

this can mean that for every one terrorist killed, two new ones choose to take his place

as big as the US is, it only has finite resources

low-key operations and working to win the 'hearts and minds' of the public in other countries can be a lot more effective

life is never 100% safe anyway. get used to it

and I'm merely stating a fact here:

US troops in the Middle east, and unflinching US support of Israel is causing an awful lot of bad feeling in the middle east

And what upsets many people is the fact that iraq is breaking UN resolutions and gets an army on it's doorstep, ready to invade

Israel breaks UN resolutions and absolutely nothing is done

That double-standards is fueling even more hatred against the US and is making a bad situation worse

Getting into this in a very detailed aspect, the big picture of US involvement in the middle east. The middle east is very wealthy with natural resource (oil of course). The United states and other nations police the middle east to prevent wars between the nations. If the middle east became one it would dominate the world. It would become a monopoloy in the world economy. Not good for any country besides the super power middle east.
The terror is a direct result of the heavy US involvment in the middle east. There will always be countries in the middle east that hate the US because of this. There is nothing that can be done except for handling the situation in the best interest of the US and the world.

The War on Terror is a great lie. Osama is a CIA asset, always has been always will be. The US administration set up, financed and trained Osama and his minions during the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. After that, the US administration worked hand in hand with the Taliban to launder money from the heroin trade. The Bush and Bin Landen families have close business ties and operate The Carlyle Group, one of the biggest defense contractors in the world. Bin Laden Construction built all the US military bases in the middle east. Two of Osama's brothers live within a few miles of CIA hq in Virginia. Bush Jr. obstructed the FBI from investigating these brothers.

The War on Terror, The Patriot Act, The Homeland Security Dept., The Office of Information Awareness is all one big giant lie to get Americans to give up their freedoms in exchange for "security". It is the start of a facist state. It is right out of hitler's playbook.

The facts are all scattered in the mainstream press.

And it's all summarized in the video links I already posted, if anyone actually gets off their butts and gets educated.

Wake up before it's too late!!!

You mean WAS a cia asset. He will never be found because they cant afford for him to be. At least not alive. Dunno what happened to him but he will never be found.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wonton
[B]The War on Terror is a great lie. Osama is a CIA asset, always has been always will be. The US administration set up, financed and trained Osama and his minions during the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. After that, the US administration worked hand in hand with the Taliban to launder money from the heroin trade. The Bush and Bin Landen families have close business ties and operate The Carlyle Group, one of the biggest defense contractors in the world. Bin Laden Construction built all the US military bases in the middle east. Two of Osama's brothers live within a few miles of CIA hq in Virginia. Bush Jr. obstructed the FBI from investigating these brothers.




So then the US was behind 9/11, the Cole bombing, and the Embassy bombings in Africa as well.

Fuck me.
I just got it. Thanks!

You're welcome. Though I have the feeling you are being facetious.

You can over complicate issues by adding motives with ease, the simple approach is almost always the correct version

when it comes to international politics, I have to disagree

Hit those history books, people. All great nations have a history of faking everything, including terrorism, in order to achieve a strategic advantage and lull the populace into war.

Former ABC News investigative journalist, Greg Bramford, wrote a great book on the National Security Agency called "Body of Secrets". He was the first to uncover government plans that called for acts of terrorism. The gulf of tonkin incident that started America's involvment in the Vietnam War (vietcong said to have bombed US navel vessel) was faked by the Pentagon.

Carry on. We now know you for what you are.

Here is an archived ABC News article that explains the Pentagon conspiracy from the 1960s. Recognize any patterns? This is the same play-book in use today:


Right off of ABC News' own website:

Pentagon Terrorism

Here is the article for those too lazy to click:


N E W Y O R K, May 1 ? In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.
The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

Details of the plans are described in Body of Secrets (Doubleday), a new book by investigative reporter James Bamford about the history of America's largest spy agency, the National Security Agency. However, the plans were not connected to the agency, he notes.

The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years.

"These were Joint Chiefs of Staff documents. The reason these were held secret for so long is the Joint Chiefs never wanted to give these up because they were so embarrassing," Bamford told ABCNEWS.com.

"The whole point of a democracy is to have leaders responding to the public will, and here this is the complete reverse, the military trying to trick the American people into a war that they want but that nobody else wants."

Gunning for War

The documents show "the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government," writes Bamford.

The Joint Chiefs even proposed using the potential death of astronaut John Glenn during the first attempt to put an American into orbit as a false pretext for war with Cuba, the documents show.

Should the rocket explode and kill Glenn, they wrote, "the objective is to provide irrevocable proof ? that the fault lies with the Communists et all Cuba [sic]."

The plans were motivated by an intense desire among senior military leaders to depose Castro, who seized power in 1959 to become the first communist leader in the Western Hemisphere ? only 90 miles from U.S. shores.

The earlier CIA-backed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba by Cuban exiles had been a disastrous failure, in which the military was not allowed to provide firepower.The military leaders now wanted a shot at it.

"The whole thing was so bizarre," says Bamford, noting public and international support would be needed for an invasion, but apparently neither the American public, nor the Cuban public, wanted to see U.S. troops deployed to drive out Castro.

Reflecting this, the U.S. plan called for establishing prolonged military ? not democratic ? control over the island nation after the invasion.

"That's what we're supposed to be freeing them from," Bamford says. "The only way we would have succeeded is by doing exactly what the Russians were doing all over the world, by imposing a government by tyranny, basically what we were accusing Castro himself of doing."

'Over the Edge'

The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military.

Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job.

The secret plans came at a time when there was distrust in the military leadership about their civilian leadership, with leaders in the Kennedy administration viewed as too liberal, insufficiently experienced and soft on communism. At the same time, however, there real were concerns in American society about their military overstepping its bounds.

There were reports U.S. military leaders had encouraged their subordinates to vote conservative during the election.

And at least two popular books were published focusing on a right-wing military leadership pushing the limits against government policy of the day. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee published its own report on right-wing extremism in the military, warning a "considerable danger" in the "education and propaganda activities of military personnel" had been uncovered. The committee even called for an examination of any ties between Lemnitzer and right-wing groups. But Congress didn't get wind of Northwoods, says Bamford.

"Although no one in Congress could have known at the time," he writes, "Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs had quietly slipped over the edge."

Even after Lemnitzer was gone, he writes, the Joint Chiefs continued to plan "pretext" operations at least through 1963.

One idea was to create a war between Cuba and another Latin American country so that the United States could intervene. Another was to pay someone in the Castro government to attack U.S. forces at the Guantanamo naval base ? an act, which Bamford notes, would have amounted to treason. And another was to fly low level U-2 flights over Cuba, with the intention of having one shot down as a pretext for a war.

"There really was a worry at the time about the military going off crazy and they did, but they never succeeded, but it wasn't for lack of trying," he says.

After 40 Years

Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy.

As public interest in the assassination swelled after JFK's release, Congress passed a law designed to increase the public's access to government records related to the assassination.

The author says a friend on the board tipped him off to the documents.

Afraid of a congressional investigation, Lemnitzer had ordered all Joint Chiefs documents related to the Bay of Pigs destroyed, says Bamford. But somehow, these remained.

"The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford

i]Originally posted by wonton [/i]
Here is an archived ABC News article that explains the Pentagon conspiracy from the 1960s. Recognize any patterns? This is the same play-book in use today:


Right off of ABC News' own website:

Pentagon Terrorism [/B][/QUOTE]


Didn't you just post a few pages back the following?

"Wrong! The difference is that I am informed. You are clearly not. Anyone who gets their geopolitical information from CNN or ABC 30 second soundbits does not have a clue what is really going on. You are being lied to and if you want to believe those lies that is your problem."

And now you are using that as your source?

I have one conspiracy I will share with you. Post 911 anthrax mail terror attacks. Some goverment organization realized in the wake of 911 they needed to seriously beef up national defense agaisnt biological attacks. The most logical and simple way to do this is to cause wide spread panic by targeting media people. How else where they going to prepare at such a rapid pace? It would take them 5 years to accomplish it without some form of a threat. The sacrifice of a handfull of people might of saved thousands of people and billions/trillions of dollars from a economic depression.

I think my conspiracy is a good one. Why would a terroist kill just a few people? They could drop the anthrax in salad bars and take out 100x that.

Didn't you just post a few pages back the following?

"Wrong! The difference is that I am informed. You are clearly not. Anyone who gets their geopolitical information from CNN or ABC 30 second soundbits does not have a clue what is really going on. You are being lied to and if you want to believe those lies that is your problem."

And now you are using that as your source? [/B][/QUOTE]


Hey woodman: the reason that I am posting an ABC News article is PRECISELY BECAUSE everyone on this board seems to believe the mainstream media. So if you believe the mainstream media then put your money where your mouth is. If your very source of everday information is telling you that the government creates evil conspiracies then how can you say that when the man in the street says the exact same thing that he is suddenly a "conspiracy nut"?

Everyone here is quoting the mainstream media as justification for invading Iraq. So if the mainstream media is your information God then you have to finally admit that the government IS INVOLVED IN TERRORIST CONSPIRACIES!!!!!!! After all, even the mainstream media is telling you exactly the same thing.

Wake up!!!

So what do you think of the theory that Jerry Garcia is actually an undercover British agent with the same "00" rating that James Bond has, and he is still alive?

That's right FatPad, your psyche cannot handle the mainstream article that I just posted. Because to do that would be to risk radically altering your worldview. So instead you try to imply that I am one of those "we never landed on the moon" people. That way you can conveniently file away this disturbing mental intrusion as "just another nutty theory".

But you will not escape that easily. The article stands on its own for what it is: The mainstream media admitting that the government will stop at nothing, including killing innocent Americans in faked terrorism to achieve its ends.

Live with that.

It is a war, and it can be overcome. If not overcome, certainly limited. Definitely not something you can just ignore (because it's obviously not for the good of society overall). Drugs on the other hand, it's shown and proven that if they'd be legal, society would improve overall. You're comparing two totally different things.

Thanks buddy, I'm now more stupid for having read what you typed. The other things you typed were as a result of either your insecurities, hatred for the government, wanting to be a rebel, or all of the above. This pushes you over the top to being one of the most ignorant people I've ever encountered in my life - congratulations!

Amen, brother.

I don't think Jerry Garcia has the same "00" rating Bond has. But I do believe he is alive and working for the British govt.

Maybe we could convince Jerry Garcia to talk NASA into killing the President with an earthquake so we can all go back to the business of smoking lots of crack.

jammy,
They hate us. Peroid. Nothing we do at this point will change that. Pakistan hates us because we like India, some, not all of the Middle East hates us because of Israel.

As far as I'm concerned we should cut off any funding to the Palistinians, Egypt, and N. Korea. If they want to hate us they can starve doing it.

Arabia almost put us in a depression in the 70's with their oil embargo. There wahabiism (sp?) is taught at a very young age and there is nothing we are going to do about it now.

I stand by my statement before. Find them, kill them.

Well, it's not my problem if you are incapable of reading and thinking.

What was the last book you ever read, The Cat in the Hat?

Spend some time reading books on history, geopolitics, geography, economics and military strategy. Then come back and enter the arena of thinkers.

If by arena of thinkers you mean brainwashed uneducated morons, then I'll pass on that offer.

As far as books, I've read plenty regarding all of the topics listed above. This is so absurd it's even worth argueing anymore.

And it's not just the man-in-the-street porn webmaster who is awake. Professors (yes people with PhDs) are leading the way.

This site is run by Professor Michel Chossudovsky of the University of Ottawa:

Global Research

I am sure you have. But the "How and Why Wonder Book of Rocks" does not count as heavy reading.

Just because you have a PhD doesn't make you an expert in international conflicts. Not to get into the whole educational stuff, but 8 years of school really doesn't mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

Agreed. But to counter your point it is not just "uneducated morons" who understand what is going on.

We've got educated morons on our side as well.

And here is a good book from a PhD educated moron. It is gauranteed better reading than the Cat in the Hat:

War and Globalisation


WAR AND GLOBALISATION

THE TRUTH BEHIND SEPTEMBER 11

by Michel Chossudovsky

In this timely study, Michel Chossudovsky blows away the smokescreen, put up by the mainstream media, that 9-11 was an "intelligence failure". Through meticulous research, the author uncovers a military-intelligence ploy behind the September 11 attacks, and the coverup and complicity of key members of the Bush Administration.

According to Chossudovsky, the so-called "war on terrorism" is a complete fabrication based on the illusion that one man, Osama bin Laden, outwitted the $30 billion-a-year American intelligence apparatus.

The "war on terrorism" is a war of conquest. Globalisation is the final march to the "New World Order", dominated by Wall Street and the U.S. military-industrial complex.

September 11, 2001 was the moment the Bush Administration had been waiting for, the so-called "useful crisis" which provided a pretext for waging a war without borders.

The hidden agenda consists in extending the frontiers of the American Empire right around the world to facilitate complete U.S. corporate control outside the U.S. and a police state on the inside.

Chossudovsky peels back the layers of rhetoric to reveal a huge hoax ? a complex web of deceit aimed at tricking the American people and the rest of the world into accepting a military solution which threatens the future of humanity.



Michel Chossudovsky is the author of the international best-seller "The Globalisation of Poverty" published in eleven languages. He is Professor of Economics at the University of Ottawa and Director of the Centre for Research on Globalisation which hosts the critically acclaimed website: www.globalresearch.ca .

Global Outlook(TM) and the Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), 2002, ISBN 0-9731109-0-2 2.

You need to do two things. Be selective in the books that you read and remember that authors have agendas and there are two or more sides to every story, thus you have to purposely seek out books that present an opposing view/views to any view/views. The second thing you need to do is practice comprehending what you read. Your comprehension level is not very high. Don't be discouraged though. You will learn with practice and maturity. I at least give you an A for effort kid.

No need to resort to insults.

I was calling you the uneducated moron, not other people backing up these "ideas" cause I'm they don't say the exact same things you do.

I think if they wanted to stage a terroist attack they could have done it on a smaller scale and obtained the same result
Why is it so hard for you to believe what is being reported? Not only does it make sense, but it makes more sense then some complex conspiracy. I could understand if the conspiracy was more logical then what is documented but they arent. And that is just fucking retarded

Please write me when you get to the gulag.

I know. And I don't care.

What is being reported makes no sense whatsoever and in fact far exceed even the most ludicrous conspiracy theories. So let's see what is being reported:

Osama Bin Laden, son of Bush Sr.'s business partner and our former ally turns "evil" in the last ten years. He sends his minions to the US and arms them with very menacing (not!) box cutters! With said box cutters the minions manage to overtake not one, not two, not three, but four commercial airliners. They manage to fly these airliners, with pinpoint accuracy, into the some of the MOST PROTECTED airspace in the world. While they are doing that , the pentagon decides on that day to ignore their regular procedures and does not scramble jets for a full hour (they scrambled jets in 15 mins when golfer Payne Stewart's lear jet went off course in 2000). After the four passenger planes hit their targets, we are told by the FBI within 24 hours that a team of middle eastern men did it, based on finding their passports in the rubble of the WTC, which all miraculously landed in one spot (intact). The middle easterners in question were never even listed in the fight manifest but so what.

It is then revealed, some months later, that the FBI, CIA and NSA had every bit of information they needed to track down these hijackers, many months before 911. The FBI even had informants LIVING with the hijackers. The only explanation from this multi-billion dollar intelligence machine was "Oh. We were incompentent".

The above is what the mainstream press reported. If the Great Wonton wrote that, he would be laughed off the board.

You see, the mainstream press is also printing a conspiracy theory. It is also totally untrue. It's nuts and it is being spread by our own government to further another agenda entirely.

As I have already pointed out your comprehension level is not high. Your post above is lack of comprehension, misinformation and BS. Period.

It's hard for me to justify wasting my time on this with you, but oh well...

1q) Osama Bin Laden, son of Bush Sr.'s business partner and our former ally turns "evil" in the last ten years.
1a) Son, Dad...two different people.

2q) He sends his minions to the US and arms them with very menacing (not!) box cutters!
2a) Good luck sending them on planes with AK47s.

3q) With said box cutters the minions manage to overtake not one, not two, not three, but four commercial airliners.
3a) Organization is a marvel, eh?

4q) They manage to fly these airliners, with pinpoint accuracy
4a) Weird how pilots hit a runway 10,000+ times a day, how do they do it?!?!

5q) some of the MOST PROTECTED airspace in the world
5a) protected from outside invading planes, which we detect via radar. These were UNITED STATES COMMERCIAL AIRLINERS, hardly high-flying planes with nuclear payloads.

6q) While they are doing that , the pentagon decides on that day to ignore their regular procedures and does not scramble jets for a full hour (they scrambled jets in 15 mins when golfer Payne Stewart's lear jet went off course in 2000).
6a) Too idiotic to warrant a response.

7q) After the four passenger planes hit their targets, we are told by the FBI within 24 hours that a team of middle eastern men did it, based on finding their passports in the rubble of the WTC, which all miraculously landed in one spot (intact). The middle easterners in question were never even listed in the fight manifest but so what.
7a) Hmm, why oh why didn't we expect Canadians to be the culprits behind this? BECAUSE THERE'S NO REASON TO WHAT SO EVER! There was plenty of evidence BEFORE these attacks to show that the people that did these attacks had hatred towards the US. Middle houses known (they admit to it) terrorist groups, Canada (just an example) doesn't.

I hope you're done with your bullshit by now...you've been shut down by facts on numerous occasions by myself and others. Just end your ranting and raving and save yourself the embarrasment.

I am afraid you are living in denial, Mr. King.

There is no misinformation whatesoever in any of my posts. I simply report what has already been reported by government press releases, mainstream media articles and books written by both investigative journalists as well as former high-ranking government officials (Casper Weinberger, Zbigniew K. Brzezinski and many more).

I have my facts straight. You do not. All you post is a regurgitation of last night's CNN broadcast, with no cross referencing of sources and other posts of the type "You comprehension is not high".

As I said before. It is time to change your handle to....thejester

One thing that bothers me about Powells speech today is if we have known for months that Iraq is making biological weapons and training people to use them against us then why the fuck would they allow it to go on? One of these so called weapons/training plants is supposedly in Northern Iraq under the no fly zone, so wtf is up with that?? Why havent we bombed it?
We have no problem bombing radar sites in that area...makes no sense.

There in is the problem. You are posting what has already been reported, but you are intentionally selective in what you are posting (worst light scenario) and are not posting the rebuttals to these reports, or posting corrections of misinformation to these reports. You also are not comprehending the agendas and points of view in some of these reports. Thus, yes you are reporting misinformation. As I stated earlier, keep trying kid, wisdom will come with comprehension and maturity.

Time to read some books for a change, Ace. Your understanding of reality is lacking.

1q) Osama Bin Laden, son of Bush Sr.'s business partner and our former ally turns "evil" in the last ten years.
1a) Son, Dad...two different people.

No kidding. This brief comment was meant to underscore the involved alliances between these two families, between which hundreds of billions of dollars worth of contracts flow. Imagine if Hitler had a family in 1939 and President Roosevelt and his father were caught in business dealings with "The Hitlers". Try to understand that from a historical context. If the Bush-Bin Laden family ties do not disturb you then you a sad and naive individual with no capacity to think for yourself.

2q) He sends his minions to the US and arms them with very menacing (not!) box cutters!
2a) Good luck sending them on planes with AK47s.

The vast majority of commercial pilots are former military men. The standard box cutter has a blade that is about two inches long. It does not even qualify as a weapon. If someone tried to mug you with a box cutter you would probably laugh in his face. That four guys armed with nothing more than box cutters could over power a flight crew, 100 passengers and two military-trained pilots is a big stretch. That they could do this in four separate incidents is the stuff of bad movies. Again, if this does not raise questions in your mind, then you maybe lacking one.

4q) They manage to fly these airliners, with pinpoint accuracy
4a) Weird how pilots hit a runway 10,000+ times a day, how do they do it?!?!

Maybe with years of training? Most of the 911 hijackers supposedly trained for a few weeks on microsoft flight simulator and supposedly read some manuals. Not exactly the same thing.

5q) some of the MOST PROTECTED airspace in the world
5a) protected from outside invading planes, which we detect via radar. These were UNITED STATES COMMERCIAL AIRLINERS, hardly high-flying planes with nuclear payloads.

You are totally misinformed on this one. The airspace around Washington D.C. is specifically protected against any type of plane from any source that enters it's airspace. When that small cessna crashed into the whitehouse (flying below radar) when Clintion was in office the Pentagon made a big hubub about revising their plans to protect the airspace. The media even ran a special on all their new procedures on CNN. They specifically have active plans on shooting down COMMERCIAL PLANES if the need arises. All of these procedures were basically ignored on 911.

6q) While they are doing that , the pentagon decides on that day to ignore their regular procedures and does not scramble jets for a full hour (they scrambled jets in 15 mins when golfer Payne Stewart's lear jet went off course in 2000).
6a) Too idiotic to warrant a response.

Of course. Because you cannot refute a glaring inconsitency. Trying to dismiss this as idiocy only highlights your own.

7q) After the four passenger planes hit their targets, we are told by the FBI within 24 hours that a team of middle eastern men did it, based on finding their passports in the rubble of the WTC, which all miraculously landed in one spot (intact). The middle easterners in question were never even listed in the fight manifest but so what.
7a) Hmm, why oh why didn't we expect Canadians to be the culprits behind this? BECAUSE THERE'S NO REASON TO WHAT SO EVER! There was plenty of evidence BEFORE these attacks to show that the people that did these attacks had hatred towards the US. Middle houses known (they admit to it) terrorist groups, Canada (just an example) doesn't.

Do you not find it odd that virtually everthing on the planes that hit the WTC and virtually everything in the WTC itself basically disintigrated. Teams searched for months and came up with little to nothing. Yet on the very first day, the FBi manages to find 13 passports in pristine condition. Have you read any of the thousands of articles that talk about law enforcement planting evidence - department after department. City after city, including the feds. While I am not saying that that the FBI definitely faked the discovery of these passports, you would have to be a fool not to investigate the question.

> I hope you're done with your bullshit by now...you've been shut > down by facts on numerous occasions by myself and others. > Just end your ranting and raving and save yourself the > embarrasment.

You have not shut down anything. And I find it interesting that you yourself do not quote a single fact from ANY source. You simply list your opinions and try to pass those off as "facts". I, on the other hand, have quoted numerous articles, books and videos and have provided links to back up my claims. I then add in my personal opinions to build on those facts. If you examine our positions objectively, you will find that your position is the one that reeks of classic bovine scatology - not mine.

I can think of several reasons and one is we may have an agent/agents that have penetrated the organization, so we may be tracking the players in hopes of learning more about the overall organization and to catch bigger fish. When the time comes we will take them down.

"There really was a worry at the time about the military going off crazy and they did, but they never succeeded, but it wasn't for lack of trying," he says.

hrm... so all this was thwarted? this is from your abc article.

Do you even know who Casper Weinberger and Zbigniew K. Brzezinski are? They DO represent the "other side" of the argument. They argue the government side. And what they argue simply confirms everything that I have posted, BECAUSE THEY ADMIT EVERYTHING IN BLACK AND WHITE.

Many of your "sources" are old news for those that pay attention to world events. Many of your "sources" have agendas and are intentionally skewing and spreading misinformation. Many of your "sources" have been rebutted.

"I then add in my personal opinions to build on those facts."

Work on your reading comprehension before you post opinions.