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#1

Designers & deadlines

01-31-2003, 01:37 PM

I know it's a damn cliché that a designer says that his dog died while setting fire to the designers mothers house 150 miles away and he couldn't finish the design in time. Because he had to go to his grandmas burial the next day.

Do you take any excuses any more without thinking "The lazy fucker is lying to me"?

Now, usually I'm always on time... as I'd rather bust my nuts in the middle of the night and get the design done, rather than be accused of being lazy.. but shit happens. Excuses suck (even if they're for real). lol.

I promised a guy a design on wednesday. He said he didn't need it until the weekend. So I just finished it. I did really have hardware problems the whole week, hence I didn't finish it on wednesday.. anyways. Do you think I was late on the design? The guy hasn't said anything, so it's not about who's right and who's an asshole.

I want to know your general opinion on designer excuses, and deadlines. Are deadlines always kept? How about excuses? Do you hear them a lot? What do you think of them?

Cheers

..and I'm off.
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Amputate Your Head

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#2

01-31-2003, 01:40 PM

deadlines are most times subjective when dealing with creative aspects. Sure you can lay down a time right to the minute, but what do you do when the idea takes longer to develop? Ideas and creativity don't always listen to the almighty clock. Would you rather have something done on Tuesday at 4pm to meet your deadline? Or would you rather allow some extra time for the process to make sure you get what's right for the project?

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pixelminx

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#3

01-31-2003, 01:40 PM

He said he didn't need it until the weekend. So while you may feel like you failed your own test, the customer will still be satisfied as it will have been on time for him (his deadline was the weekend, not wednesday). All is well, I think.

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Jakke PNG

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#4

01-31-2003, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
deadlines are most times subjective when dealing with creative aspects. Sure you can lay down a time right to the minute, but what do you do when the idea takes longer to develop? Ideas and creativity don't always listen to the almighty clock. Would you rather have something done on Tuesday at 4pm to meet your deadline? Or would you rather allow some extra time for the process to make sure you get what's right for the project?

That is true. And I don't give exact dates on paysites, or other sites that require a lot of creativity on my part.

These were actually just some gallery templates.. which could be done in what.. 5 hours.. But my PS crashed every 15 minutes and so forth.. lol.. got on my nerves.
Let's say I was ordering a big paysite from another designer. I would like to know approx when I could expect it, but I'd order it in good time, so I wouldn't have to worry whether it would be ready on time. Many customers seem to be under pressure, and in a hurry.

..and I'm off.
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Amputate Your Head

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#5

01-31-2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by TeenGodFather

That is true. And I don't give exact dates on paysites, or other sites that require a lot of creativity on my part.

These were actually just some gallery templates.. which could be done in what.. 5 hours.. But my PS crashed every 15 minutes and so forth.. lol.. got on my nerves.
Let's say I was ordering a big paysite from another designer. I would like to know approx when I could expect it, but I'd order it in good time, so I wouldn't have to worry whether it would be ready on time. Many customers seem to be under pressure, and in a hurry.

totally agree.... for things that are merely a matter of mass production, sure.... deadlines can be given and met. But for things like paysites or logos that actually require thought, I usually try to give an approximated timeline.... however... there are times when nothing is coming to me and I'll spend an entire day just thinking about it and trying a few different ideas to see which one has potential. I generally don't have any problems with this approach either. Most people understand that stuff takes time. Time is always the designers enemy. People want their stuff... and I can understand that. But it's never easy to instantly produce an idea that's in someone else's head.

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#6

01-31-2003, 01:51 PM

TeenGodFather designed me a MoviePost ontime and it was excellent Even if there had been a problem I woulda had no problem waiting for this design
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#7

01-31-2003, 01:53 PM

interesting post!

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#8

01-31-2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
deadlines are most times subjective when dealing with creative aspects. Sure you can lay down a time right to the minute, but what do you do when the idea takes longer to develop? Ideas and creativity don't always listen to the almighty clock. Would you rather have something done on Tuesday at 4pm to meet your deadline? Or would you rather allow some extra time for the process to make sure you get what's right for the project?

Bravo! Bravo!

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Sly_RJ

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#9

01-31-2003, 02:17 PM

I don't design, but when I'm stuck on something I usually move on to another project... eventually an idea will pop into my head.

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galleryseek

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#10

01-31-2003, 02:22 PM

yeah, deadlines aren't good. best way to go about it is approximation within reason.
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candyflip

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#11

01-31-2003, 02:22 PM

Over estimate and then deliver early

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freeadultcontent

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#12

01-31-2003, 02:32 PM

I have a few views on this.

1. Designers should give themselves leway in the deadline they take or give. I do not care if you need it or not, take some. Worst case is you come in early.

2. If a designer says "hey I hit a creative snag, can I get a little extra time?" Then anyone who wants quality will give it to them. I know I would.

3. I often make designers pay a late fee if they go over the deadline by X number of days. Well its ussually a fee reduction. If they can not meet a deadline they should not say they could. If there house burns down well to be blunt, it is not my business.
I know that is cold but honestly this is business. Now if it is someone I have dealt with often they ussually will get some leway, but again they understand rule 2.

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Amputate Your Head

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#13

01-31-2003, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
I have a few views on this.

1. Designers should give themselves leway in the deadline they take or give. I do not care if you need it or not, take some. Worst case is you come in early.

2. If a designer says "hey I hit a creative snag, can I get a little extra time?" Then anyone who wants quality will give it to them. I know I would.

3. I often make designers pay a late fee if they go over the deadline by X number of days. Well its ussually a fee reduction. If they can not meet a deadline they should not say they could. If there house burns down well to be blunt, it is not my business.
I know that is cold but honestly this is business. Now if it is someone I have dealt with often they ussually will get some leway, but again they understand rule 2.

what if the designer is struggling or taking more time than planned because you could not communicate your ideas adequately? (which is often the case... it's usually rather hard to describe an image you have in your head to someone else and expect them to get the same image) Should the designer charge YOU more? What if you are supposed to have your content ready and in by next week and you don't? Should I double the price for you?

A good part of this stuff relies on good communication between the two parties, and working through the project. Not expecting someone to be able to read your mind and charging them or deducting fees if they can't.

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freeadultcontent

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#14

01-31-2003, 02:49 PM

what if the designer is struggling or taking more time than planned because you could not communicate your ideas adequately? (which is often the case... it's usually rather hard to describe an image you have in your head to someone else and expect them to get the same image) Should the designer charge YOU more? What if you are supposed to have your content ready and in by next week and you don't? Should I double the price for you?

Amp if it is my fault with lack of communication then it is my fault, I am wasting his/her time and they should raise the price for the extra hassle.

If they do not have the content when they say they will I would expect them to also raise the rate some. Not neccessaryly double it but cover the extra time they lost at least. It is only reasonable.

A good part of this stuff relies on good communication between the two parties, and working through the project. Not expecting someone to be able to read your mind and charging them or deducting fees if they can't.

I would agree that good communication is important if not key. I would never expect someone to read my mind. Most often I honestly just give my basic idea and tell them to surprise me. I am not one to try and tell a designer what to do. If I was that creative artisticly I would do the shit myself. When I place an order I always give the designer my overall idea, what I want on the page(s), feel I want for the site, and hand over more content than they would ever need. (ask Voodoo I think I sent him 80 pics to choose from for 1 logo)

Then if really needed I will have them make very minor alterations when it comes time for that. On my last design ordered I had 2 things changed. Removed a seperate image and swaped text on a button. But again thats me.

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Amputate Your Head

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#15

01-31-2003, 02:52 PM

I don't know who you've been working with, but I can tell ya that no one takes it upon themselves to reduce my fees. I may occassionally throw in a make-good banner or something if there were alot of snags, but generally, what I quote, I expect. Or there's no deal. Simple as that. Any make-goods or fee reductions come from me... not the other way around.

Hint for buyers: Throw in the occassional tip to your designer when he's not expecting it. He'll go out of his way for you for anything you need.

Hint for designers: Treat your clients right and don't charge them for every little thing that takes three seconds to change or fix. They'll take care of you by way of repeat work in the future.

Hint for everyone: Don't be an asshole. Nobody wants to have to fight with someone on a project that they should be working together on.

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freeadultcontent

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#16

01-31-2003, 03:03 PM

Amp the only time I would reduce the fee is on a rush project with a strict deadline, even then the design would know of this before he/she took the job. It is not something I would try to spring on someone. Or am I like the only one who ever gets contracts for most stuff?

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#17

01-31-2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
Amp the only time I would reduce the fee is on a rush project with a strict deadline, even then the design would know of this before he/she took the job. It is not something I would try to spring on someone. Or am I like the only one who ever gets contracts for most stuff?

in that case I would agree with you... if he knows up front that it absolutely has to be done by a certain time, he's taken it upon himself to deliver on time. If I was put in that situation and blew the deadline, I'd probly deliver it free. But that's just me, and I don't normally take on strict deadline jobs unless it's a favor/free job anyway.

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freeadultcontent

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#18

01-31-2003, 03:10 PM

Well maybe one day I will be able to afford one of your designs and see how you handle customers.

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#19

01-31-2003, 03:10 PM

btw, I never increase my price just because someone couldn't deliver content on time or there were communication problems... I'm extremely flexible. The only time I increase my quotes are when the job turns out to be several more pages of work than originally laid out.

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Sharky

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#20

01-31-2003, 03:13 PM

well said AMP.

Anytime we have been late on a design (our fault or not) I usually go above and beyond what's called for in giving extra banners, etc. My clients don't expect it... but I do it anyway. We are almost NEVER late on projects.. but unforseen circumstances do come up. I give my clients a realistic completion date.. and ask them to give a day or two for leaway..

Bottom line.. I want to keep my customers happy. I have taken a loss on the project to ensure my clients happiness. Reputation is everything in this biz.. one project will not break me.. but the good publicity from going beyond the call of duty can only help!

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#21

01-31-2003, 03:23 PM

well, I know I'm not the fastest guy out there.... some guys can bang out 3 or 4 paysites a day. (god only knows how) I take every project on as though it were my own. And I try to make it as good as it can possibly be. But I totally agree with you sharky... above all else, I always try to make the customer happy in the end.

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#22

01-31-2003, 03:27 PM

btw, anyone reading this looking for work, I'm currently booked indefinately, but for superior quality work and service, I highly recommend sharky and his team.

Last edited by Amputate Your Head; 01-31-2003, 03:33 PM.

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#23

01-31-2003, 03:32 PM

Ok basically as long as there is good communication I do not find it a problem and trust me i get fucking pissed off big when i dont get any communication (Liquid Design).

Try and get the sketch to me on time then keep me updated on the progress, if it over runs then fine...

If i say to you though i need this BY THIS DATE then take this into consideration and try and finish 2 days before or something then if any problem then I am happy.
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#24

01-31-2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by candyflip
Over estimate and then deliver early

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