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Rich

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#1

Hiring SEO expert - full time

01-23-2003, 12:06 PM

I'm looking for someone to work inhouse in downtown Vancouver, so you have to be local or willing to relocate. You must be an expert at search engine optimization, and you must be able to prove it.

Send your CV along with your expected salary to Richard AT bigleaguebetting.com
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tony286

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#2

01-23-2003, 12:23 PM

I figured now a days all you need for SEO is a check book. Does search engines even matter now when most of it is pay?
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#3

01-23-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by tony404
I figured now a days all you need for SEO is a check book. Does search engines even matter now when most of it is pay?

It still makes a huge difference, especially in pay per inclusion engines. You still need to get top rankings even if your paying to just get listed.

WG

I play with Google.
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Rich

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#4

01-23-2003, 12:32 PM

There is still free SE traffic to be had man. When I'm paying $8-$25 per fucking click and overture for the search terms I need, hiring someone who can pull in some free SE traffic is still worth it. Yes that's 8-25 dollars, not cents.
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#5

01-23-2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Rich
There is still free SE traffic to be had man. When I'm paying $8-$25 per fucking click and overture for the search terms I need, hiring someone who can pull in some free SE traffic is still worth it. Yes that's 8-25 dollars, not cents.

show me a listing, i feel like clicking today
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#6

01-23-2003, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Pipecrew

show me a listing, i feel like clicking today

just search for casinos on overture and click away

Spam link here
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#7

01-23-2003, 12:38 PM

http://www.overture.com/d/search/?ty...uestid=2445200
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Rich

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#8

01-23-2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Pipecrew

show me a listing, i feel like clicking today

You guys are funny. Oh no an extra $50 wasted, I'm ruined.

That being said, fuck off.
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NetRodent

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#9

01-23-2003, 12:42 PM

Not to post the url of another forum, but most of the SEOs I know read http://www.searchengineforums.com You might have good luck over there.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken
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Rich

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#10

01-23-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by NetRodent
Not to post the url of another forum, but most of the SEOs I know read http://www.searchengineforums.com You might have good luck over there.

Thanks NetRodent
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#11

01-23-2003, 02:23 PM

anyone who is an SEO 'expert' won't work for an employer for a sallery (if they are smart) cos they can make fuckloads more workin for themselves.

<a href="http://www.swoit.com/_7075fcffae0c1be1a35492ee5bbfaae3/1"><img src="http://www.swoit.com/_7075fcffae0c1be1aab68e286ae87b30/1" border="0" width="120" height="60"></img></a>
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funkmaster

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#12

01-23-2003, 02:29 PM

... there is no such thing as SEO.
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WiredGuy

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#13

01-23-2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by d0se
anyone who is an SEO 'expert' won't work for an employer for a sallery (if they are smart) cos they can make fuckloads more workin for themselves.

Some people prefer a steady salary. I agree that a majority of SE experts would probably be better off working for themselves but there's the occasional person or two who want job security...

WG

I play with Google.
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#14

01-23-2003, 02:33 PM

another useful site beside searchengineforums is www.webmasterworld.com
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Rich

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#15

01-23-2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by WiredGuy

Some people prefer a steady salary. I agree that a majority of SE experts would probably be better off working for themselves but there's the occasional person or two who want job security...

WG

Name your price WiredGuy.

j/k, I know I can't afford you.
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#16

01-23-2003, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Rich

Name your price WiredGuy.

j/k, I know I can't afford you.

Hehe, I'm not the occasional person or two

Didn't your sig say a while ago something about referback by the way?

WG

I play with Google.
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#17

01-23-2003, 02:54 PM

WG will shake google for food!
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WiredGuy

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#18

01-23-2003, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Socks
WG will shake google for food!

I talk to GoogleBot in my sleep. I keep asking GoogleBot why it isn't visiting me...

WG

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SEGuru

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#19

01-23-2003, 02:57 PM

I would agree regarding WebmasterWorld. Most of the "name" experts have migrated there as opposed to hanging at Searchengineforums anymore. The owner Jim has gotten quite ill as of late and SEF is just not the quality that it once used to be.

WiredGuy is right though, even with PFI (Pay For Inclusion), your sites/feeds need to be optimized for best results. Without the knowledge of Algorithms, Contextual Relevance, Regression Trend Analysis of multiple Density Data Files, Regression Trend Analysis of multiple Link Pop Files...all for a single index page...you just throw those dice and hope you make your number.

SEO is not dead, its only evolved. Its usefullness is still prevalent and if you can secure it...getcha some! SE traffic will always be gold...based upon the qualifying nature of the technologhy behind search and what it provides you, the entrepreneur with...QUALIFIED, TARGETED, TRAFFIC

A dedicated SEO...ehhhh, good luck. They are out there, but finding one who wants that offer...well... I dunno. Maybe.

For the most part though...if that SEO is good, than he can live EASILY without a 9-5 Paycheck.

Its likely cheaper on a business owner to "TEST" their SEO on a 90 day trial contract. See if they are starting to ramp up the traffic. If so, you have a winner. If not, all you are out...is 90 days pay...but not everything that goes along with a Full Time employee.

My $.02

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WiredGuy

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#20

01-23-2003, 03:05 PM

You hit the nail right on SEGuru, Excellent post. And your right, a lot of the models used to calculate the ranking of a particular page involve some very complex Combinatorics & Optimazations. It's interesting to see how many SEO's out there use the hit and miss approach just trying to get an increased ranking with random methods versus trying to approach the issue from the search engine point of view. Modelling out a search engines ranking heuristics is very complex and can require many mathematical degrees but is a science that when mastered can become invaluable to any business (or person).

WG

I play with Google.
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#21

01-23-2003, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by SEGuru

WiredGuy is right though, even with PFI (Pay For Inclusion), your sites/feeds need to be optimized for best results. Without the knowledge of Algorithms, Contextual Relevance, Regression Trend Analysis of multiple Density Data Files, Regression Trend Analysis of multiple Link Pop Files...all for a single index page...you just throw those dice and hope you make your number.

Damn, I didnt realize there was a bullshit generator out there for seo terms, whats the url?

“Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. If we continue to develop our technology without wisdom or prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner.” ― Omar Bradley (1948)
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WiredGuy

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#22

01-23-2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Nasty

Damn, I didnt realize there was a bullshit generator out there for seo terms, whats the url?

Not a single term SEGuru used was BS. They're mathematical terms used for computing statistics and probability, or determining where a listing will appear in a search engine with reasonable accuracy. Learn what the terms mean and then how to achieve them and you'll become an SEO yourself...

WG

I play with Google.
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#23

01-23-2003, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by WiredGuy

Not a single term SEGuru used was BS. They're mathematical terms used for computing statistics and probability, or determining where a listing will appear in a search engine with reasonable accuracy. Learn what the terms mean and then how to achieve them and you'll become an SEO yourself...

WG

I was joking, I knew what they meant, here is one of my pr7 sites, I have 4 and several pr6's as well

http://www.buildfind.com/

“Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. If we continue to develop our technology without wisdom or prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner.” ― Omar Bradley (1948)
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SEGuru

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#24

01-23-2003, 03:22 PM

Dead on WiredGuy.

Should I say , huh and duh in my post for it to make sense Nasty?

Having built a couple of engines and taught Reverse Engineering now for 4 years...I have a clue about Search Algorithms.

Ok hows this...you respect traffic and if you can get bulk traffic that is still free...say like Google...you take it right?

Go and read this: The Anatomy Of A Hypertextual Search Engine

Maybe you can respect what goes into just understanding that and how to make that understanding yield cash?

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#25

01-23-2003, 03:23 PM

Nice,

So Nasty is hip to PR and fuckin with us. Sheesh...
You bait and Switch too? Cloak? hehehehe

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Nasty

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#26

01-23-2003, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by SEGuru
Nice,

So Nasty is hip to PR and fuckin with us. Sheesh...
You bait and Switch too? Cloak? hehehehe

Nah, sites have just been around a long time, no cloaking, no adwords, no ppc, no tricks, sites have just been around a long time and feed off each other, we stopped development of the network around a year ago when the ad business went to shit but traffic continues to increase and we make a few bucks off our job resources, Im surprised our ratings havent dropped since we just migrated to a new host and had all kinds of problems and the lights were out on all the sites for over a week

“Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. If we continue to develop our technology without wisdom or prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner.” ― Omar Bradley (1948)
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Rich

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#27

01-23-2003, 03:39 PM

Great, I've started a conversation between top SEO people, none of whom want to work for me.
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Rep

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#28

01-23-2003, 03:41 PM

damn and i thought all SEOs did was bullshit.

who | grep -i blonde | date; cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep
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boneprone

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#29

01-23-2003, 03:42 PM

I just Bought SEO for dummies.

Wired guy watch out!

Industry Hall Of Fame Legend Mike Jones
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Learn about it kids.
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WiredGuy

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#30

01-23-2003, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by SEGuru
Go and read this: The Anatomy Of A Hypertextual Search Engine

Ahh, that paper is what got me started in this business. A great read and I can relate to its contents in so many ways as it hits on one of my degrees. I think I owe the authors a great big thank you as they made me realize the profitability in search engine marketing at a point where I was wondering what was the point of doing a C&O degree. They put it all in perspective.

WG

I play with Google.
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#31

01-23-2003, 06:45 PM

Without the knowledge of Algorithms, Contextual Relevance, Regression Trend Analysis of multiple Density Data Files, Regression Trend Analysis of multiple Link Pop Files...all for a single index page...

heh that is soo funny. You're talking like a badly trained Doctor who just uses jargon to make it seem much more complicated than it actually is.

Have Asian Language Traffic?
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#32

01-23-2003, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by WiredGuy

Ahh, that paper is what got me started in this business. A great read and I can relate to its contents in so many ways as it hits on one of my degrees. I think I owe the authors a great big thank you as they made me realize the profitability in search engine marketing at a point where I was wondering what was the point of doing a C&O degree. They put it all in perspective.
WG

Any chance you'd kickdown a reading list? [img]images/smilies/NEW/338.gif[/img]

oh yeah, if anyone cares i made a chart of the top 1000 google page rank sites. they won't let me post it at webmasterworld. although i'm sure a lot of people in this thread have plenty of access to this kind of data.

gesundheit

Last edited by fnet; 01-23-2003, 06:57 PM.

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#33

01-23-2003, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by fnet
[B]Any chance you'd kickdown a reading list? [img]images/smilies/NEW/338.gif[/img]

Sorry, a majority of what I learnt in the business comes from a few amazing readings and I'd like to keep those sources as discrete as possible. But I will tell you the one that SEGuru posted was probably the first one that I started on that's quite complex for someone whose new in SEO or who doesn't have a C&O/mathematical background. Start with that paper and try to understand it to the very core. Some concepts are rather complex such as the inverted index or the PR calculation formula, but read it over a couple times and the concepts will begin to sink in. From there you got the fundamentals of Google and can work to apply recent changes that Google has made. Keep in mind the date of when this paper was written, it's quite old but still does make up a significant portion of the Google algorithm.

WG

Last edited by WiredGuy; 01-23-2003, 07:49 PM.

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#34

01-24-2003, 06:58 AM

Ya know,

Ya know Rich, you really should just go contract someone and be done with it.

WiredGuy:
Makes you wonder how many peeps got the fact that the Stanford paper posted is closer to a key cutter than anything ever handed out on "HOW TO MAKE A POT OF GOLD!"

I was no different than any other SEO, however...I have been able to verbally thank the gentleman who set my feet on this path report my success to him as well. His name was Fredrick Markini, and was the authour of the original WebPosition Guide to Search Engine Positioning.

That guide gave me a foundation to build on, and a couple of years after reading that and having become a successful SEO...I met Fredrick at the very first Search Engine Strategies Seminar held by Danny Sullivan and Internet.com in San Fransisco.

Ahhh the good ole days...back when you could beat up Infoseek.
Where have they gone???

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#35

01-24-2003, 07:11 AM

Wow. A real topic. I am in shock. No drama, no flaming, no spamming. A thread worthy of being read.

I am just waiting for someone to post that stupid spread ass picture or something equally redundant.

Until then, keep going. This is good stuff.
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WiredGuy

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#36

01-24-2003, 07:23 AM

Tell me about it, it feels likes its been years since the SEO game has been played really. Lately it's been driven by the all-mighty dollar and it's not as fun as it used to be when trying to get the top listing and monetary influence wasn't a factor. I never had the pleasure of attending the Search Engine Seminars since I was probably too young to be taken seriously at that age, but Danny Sulivan is probably one of the most respected people in the SE business who continually provides his opinions in top online news sources like C|Net. His Search Engine Watch newsletter is probably one of the best current news sources which covers SE's changes and evolution from month to month. A great guy and a great service...

WG

I play with Google.
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DarkJedi

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#37

01-24-2003, 08:04 AM

JUST A THOUGHT: IF ARE U ARE GOOD AS SE OPTIMIZATION, WHY WORK FOR SOMEBODY WHEN YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE TOP LISTING YOURSELF ?

Last edited by DarkJedi; 01-24-2003, 08:06 AM.
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#38

01-24-2003, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by DarkJedi
JUST A THOUGHT: IF ARE U ARE GOOD AS SE OPTIMIZATION, WHY WORK FOR SOMEBODY WHEN YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE TOP LISTING YOURSELF ?

By that logic, if you're a good photographer, why sell content? If you're a good mechanic, why buy a car instead of build it yourself?

SEOs offer a service. They have a bad rep because too many idiots read one or two articles and think they're SEO experts, sell themselves to other idiots who pay big bucks without doing research on the person to make sure they can actually deliver the service they claim to be able to.

You know Teen Kelly converts like crazy.
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#39

01-24-2003, 09:11 AM

There is a huge diff between seo theory and seo practice. You don't really need to understand the theory to do seo. theory is for people who are trying to run the search engine, but webmaster's practice is thankfully much simplier.

Some seo's prefer to make it all look very difficult, but all you really need to do is tend to your links.

Tend to your links:
Get listed in Yahoo, ODP, and a few other important general purpose link lists.

Get listed on special purpose high PR link lists that are relevant to your subject.

Never link to a site that has a PR=0

Text links are best for seo. The most powerful links have your keywords in the linked text.

Tend to your internal links in a similar manner, but you can be a bit more aggressive with linked keywords.

Keyword density and placement are still important, but not like it used to be. Just be sure your keywords are in your title and sprinkled around your page, too. Don't overdo it.

have original content. Do not expect to rank well if your site has nothing but links to sponsors.

If you do that you'll rank just fine.

And finally, fuck Regression Trend Analysis.

Last edited by wimpy; 01-24-2003, 09:31 AM.

Fyodor Dostoyevsky wrote: "Every man has reminiscences which he would not tell to everyone but only his friends. He has other matters in his mind which he would not reveal even to his friends, but only to himself, and that in secret. But there are other things which a man is afraid to tell even to himself, and every decent man has a number of such things stored away in his mind."

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#40

01-24-2003, 09:57 AM

Google will put all your SE dorks out of biz sooner or later. All your regressional bullshit is just common sense -- the bot wants to "find the most relevant site" -- and that means A REAL SITE! A bunch of algorithmic bullshit cheating is a temporary solution. The real link sites will have the last laugh -- all your mathematical plotting is short-sighted.
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#41

01-24-2003, 10:46 AM

The mark of a good SEO always was having the ability to move and shake with the changes in the engine. The evolution of SEO is still evident in my opinion.

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Rich

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#42

01-24-2003, 12:03 PM

SEGuru or Wiredguy, either of you open to do some contract work for me? If you are, please send me your rates: richard AT bigleaguebetting.com

Originally posted by drunkmonkey
Wow. A real topic. I am in shock. No drama, no flaming, no spamming. A thread worthy of being read.

I am just waiting for someone to post that stupid spread ass picture or something equally redundant.

Until then, keep going. This is good stuff.

Good call, there's even a little real information to be found in this thread, and apparently a link to a good read on the topic of SE's. The only BS in this whole thread so far is those kids saying they're going to click on my expensive per click listings, and, well, TheFly's entire post.
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#43

01-24-2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by WiredGuy
Tell me about it, it feels likes its been years since the SEO game has been played really. Lately it's been driven by the all-mighty dollar and it's not as fun as it used to be when trying to get the top listing and monetary influence wasn't a factor. I never had the pleasure of attending the Search Engine Seminars since I was probably too young to be taken seriously at that age, but Danny Sulivan is probably one of the most respected people in the SE business who continually provides his opinions in top online news sources like C|Net. His Search Engine Watch newsletter is probably one of the best current news sources which covers SE's changes and evolution from month to month. A great guy and a great service...

WG

From a business sense, SEO is much less important these days. We do a little of it but for the most part we do paid campaigns. A bit more expensive but infinitely more reliable. Life was much more exciting in the old days battling with AV, Lycos, Hotbot and Infoseek. There was nothing like the trill of waking up to find my sites in top place. Now life is dull (analyzing costs) but much more lucrative.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken
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#44

01-24-2003, 02:41 PM

The problem with seo today is that it costs as much to pay the expert as you make on his work. For most sites the webmaster has to do it or it's not worth the cost.

Of course, there's always a budget for someone who can rank top 10 for gambling.

Fyodor Dostoyevsky wrote: "Every man has reminiscences which he would not tell to everyone but only his friends. He has other matters in his mind which he would not reveal even to his friends, but only to himself, and that in secret. But there are other things which a man is afraid to tell even to himself, and every decent man has a number of such things stored away in his mind."

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The Other Steve

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#45

01-24-2003, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Rich

Good call, there's even a little real information to be found in this thread, and apparently a link to a good read on the topic of SE's. The only BS in this whole thread so far is those kids saying they're going to click on my expensive per click listings, and, well, TheFly's entire post.

Damn - nothing like a few wannabes coming in with bullshit to close a good discussion down.

But I guess that's just the nature of this business - give a moron a keyboard and he becomes a guru.

Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain
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#46

01-24-2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by TheFLY
Google will put all your SE dorks out of biz sooner or later. All your regressional bullshit is just common sense -- the bot wants to "find the most relevant site" -- and that means A REAL SITE! A bunch of algorithmic bullshit cheating is a temporary solution. The real link sites will have the last laugh -- all your mathematical plotting is short-sighted.

This is a "the just will survive argument" that teeters on implying the existence of a benign deity- in the form of... the cluster of algorithms known as Google. What percentage of your traffic comes from search engine hits that aren't looking for your site expressly?

Creativity being what it is- beautiful, manaical, but so often unattended- don't you think it's possible that you might be missing something?

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#47

01-24-2003, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by SEGuru
WiredGuy is right though, even with PFI (Pay For Inclusion), your sites/feeds need to be optimized for best results. Without the knowledge of Algorithms, Contextual Relevance, Regression Trend Analysis of multiple Density Data Files, Regression Trend Analysis of multiple Link Pop Files...all for a single index page...you just throw those dice and hope you make your number.

Your copious assertions are far too sagacious for my diminutive education.

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#48

01-24-2003, 04:10 PM

I agree with what wimpy has said. I think that people who talk up SE's as very complicated are just trying to create an industry for themselves, making it appear difficult and therefore a barrier to entry. All power to people who can sell SEO though, i think it's more *SELLING* than SEO though

If you want to pay someone a salary i'd get someone smart who is new to SE's and would find it a challenge to try and work them out.. Give them a bit of a budget to signup to different services, especially those with *guaranteed* results, soon enough the person would have pieces of the SE puzzle and just got to put them together

I would be *very* surprised if someone who can already rank high for gambling keywords would accept a salary to do so..
no harm in trying to find one though.

Have Asian Language Traffic?
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#49

01-24-2003, 05:32 PM

Nice post fnet....nice indeed!

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WiredGuy

Pounding Googlebot

Join Date: Aug 2002

Posts: 34517
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#50

01-25-2003, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by TheFLY
Google will put all your SE dorks out of biz sooner or later. All your regressional bullshit is just common sense -- the bot wants to "find the most relevant site" -- and that means A REAL SITE! A bunch of algorithmic bullshit cheating is a temporary solution. The real link sites will have the last laugh -- all your mathematical plotting is short-sighted.

I hope that's not your mentality on SEO. We have been around since the first search engines went live and will be there so long as there is a market need. I for one have been doing this for four years and I imagine that SEGuru has been at it for even longer.

Furthermore, our algorithmnic BS is based on what search engines are looking for. Ethical SEO'ers are not trying to deprive surfers from the best sites out there, we're trying to help surfers find their intended destinations with the help of search engines. If what we do for a living is a temporary solution, then why have we been around just as long as the search engines?

Markets change, companies rise and fall every day and yet we all work together by evolving in the marketplace. A new search engine could come out tomorrow that could leave Google in the dust just as easily as they rose to take the throne and as such SEO's will evolve to react to the change.

WG

I play with Google.
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