WTF is with Acacia Media?

Tell them to go fuck themselves.

Oh, lord these cock smokers again.... Good luck I think this stuff is going to get interesting...

Whoever approved these patents is a moron who needs to be shot.

I've been told by some not to waste my time with them that they can't do shit while a few have told me that they can/will sue me. This makes no fucking sense. I'm not the one providing these feeds. I'm just linking to them from my index page.

they are so full of shit.

if i offer windows media files (wmv) files on my site, how can they claim a patent on that, when microshit is the ones who invented the file format?

i think the people at the patent office have been smoking crack

They have a document saying they own the rights for the script that you are using for movies... It's some thing most content providers are using and dealing with. To my under standing you can't be charged for a thing unless you claim copy rights to the movie... So yeah tell them to go fuck them selves cause you dont own the movie. You have a site that people post there links on... THATS IT!

I'd like to hear from others who got an Acacia letter a while back. Anything more from them?

As would I.


I've been reading some of this and appearantly if you buy content from a provider and they have a license or whatever, it isn't valid for you. Only the content provider.

I don't know if this has been posted or not but I found it an interesting read nonetheless. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...,767313,00.asp

But this line from the Acacia lawyer pretty much shows you exactly what they have in mind.

"If people feel that this is something they need to challenge in court, fine. But if they challenge this in court, 75 percent of the people will likely spend more in court fees than they'll spend in royalties to us."

London from Domain Girls has been dealing with these chumps for a while.

The best I can figure is that, basically, they get to choose who they sue, and they have realized they can't afford to go after Microsoft, Real, and Apple until they have more precedent behind them. Thus, they are going after porn providers first, since we don't get a lot of sympathy.

Someone needs to fight it, rather than settle, I know that much for sure. They are betting on people settling at this point.

Holio, Homegrown, and a few others are organizing a defense. If you got a letter from Acacia, you should contact Farrel Timlake ([email protected]).

I know I saw matrix on a list also... MATRIX IS SO BIG THEY WOULDNT STAND A CHANCE! I would think...

Are you fucking kidding?
Geez.....

Contact timlake as mentioned above, he will either have a lawyer call you or ask you to give them a call....

All of this "fuck them" and what not wont help shit, ohh yeah and btw they do have a case here!!

That is exactly what they are doing.

Their patents are not on the movie files or the movie formats. Their patents are on the delievry of the movies (any format) over the internet. If the movies are on your server you have a problem. If you are linking to movies on someone else's server there is no problem... disregard them. The license to us content providers/brokers only cover our samples and files being downloaded from our site. Once you put the movies on your site you are supposed to get a license from Acacia. Infact in our contract it states we are supposed to inform buyers of this fact. The holio group is fighting if you wish to join them. Patent law basically states if they have a patent to something you are using they can sue you and you have to prove either you are not infringing on their patent or that the patent shouldn't be in the first place. But this means you need to pay a PATENT ATTORNEY not a regular Lawyer/attorney to fight it. But in the meantime they get injunction and so forth and you are out of biz..

I doubt very much if they have a case. The patents read very much like the BT patents over 'hyperlinks'. (Some) outdated technical devices etc, Overwide, all encompassing descriptions and the killer, absolutely no mention of the Internet at all, which was where the BT patent got shafted.


Course, I'm not a lawyer, so I'll shut up now.

Two things...

First of all, as scooby says, this is a patent that may well be too broad, and faces a real prospect of being overturned.

Second, I think the people who infringe on a patent are those who create and sell products that infringe. I am pretty sure that if anyone is in violation, it is Microsoft, Apple, AOL/TimeWartner and Real.

When i spoke with these cocksuckers i asked them what it was of theirs that i was using?

When i posed these questions to the chick on the phone she basically called me a nutcase and hung up on me.

"Do you own the rights to the IP Protocol?"
"Do you own the right to the quicktime movie format?"
"Do you own the HTTP protocol which my files are sent over?"
"Do you own the video codec?"
"Do you own the any software i use?"


Logically this will tell you that everything involved with me streaming content over the web has absolutely nothing to do with anything they 'own'.

How about i go out and patent the concept of an Operating System and then go sue anyone who provides any type of Operating System.


Basically this is all a bunch of bullshit, ignore it and go on about your biz!

Joe

You'd think they would have taken the time to proofread and spellcheck such an important email such as that one, wouldn't you?

I'd still suggest taking it seriously.

Like it or not - they have a valid patent. It probably should never have been issued but it has.

So someone needs to fight it and get it overturned. Thats going to cost money.

Ignoring it if they decide to sue you is the most stupid thing you can do.

Before they sue, you can chose to license from them. It may or may not cost you less in the long term. It will most certainly cost you less in the short term should they decide to sue you and you have to defend the action, even as part of the group that Homegrown have formed.

Its absurd that these patents where even issued, but they have $36 million to fight the law suits with, more money than most of the people they are going after. And now that the patents have been issued its not up to them to prove they are valid - you have to prove they are invalid.

1) Why pay them anything when they have to to prove their rights to the patents.

2) IF they lose their court case and the patent they have holds do you think you'll see a red cent back from these guys?

3) If they were 100% sure about this then CNN, MSN, and just about every other website in the world would owe these guys money.

4) A DVD movie is streamed from the DVD Disc to the player via the laser, that is considered digital media technology as well, why havent they tried to hit any of the big companies up with these lawsuits?


When M$ pays these fuckers out then i'll believe that they're real otherwise they're just dont have any ground to stand on. M$ Would burn their 36 million in no time. Look at their stock, they're losing money and now they're trying to go for a grab.

"Its absurd that these patents where even issued, but they have $36 million to fight the law suits with, more money than most of the people they are going after. And now that the patents have been issued its not up to them to prove they are valid - you have to prove they are invalid."

What have they patented? What technology is involved in every audio/video stream which they own the patent to?

They dont - thats just it. They have the patent, if you think its bullshit and they sue you, then you need to prove it bullshit. How much money do you think that is going to cost!

Of course not, and you will still have to keep paying if you sign a license agreement that doesnt have an expiry period. Im not suggesting you should pay there license fees, but ignoring it outright, especially if you end up getting a law suit rather than a please pay us letter is just stupid. But its your business.

And they do, but they can choose who they pursue for the license fees and who they dont. They want some court precedent set fighting some little guys so when they get to the big boys, not only do they have to prove its an invalid patent, they have to overturn previously set precedent.

Their patents cover delivery of media over networks such as the internet. Obviously a DVD player doesnt fall into that, but I believe they are going after some cable type setups in hotels.

They have a patent over the concept and process - not a specific technology.

If anything i could maybe understand the patent of the Concept of, which i dont think would stand up really as BT lost the Concept Of case with the href html tag.

As for a process, they have to actually state the process and as far as i know the process in which video/audio stream is completely different (in most cases). To me this seems like their process is nothing more than a Start & End point to the file but then again every single technology on the net, for the most part, has a Start/End point.

I wonder if they've gone after people producing other forms of animations(media) such as flash, shockwave, etc as they're probably in the same boat as video/audio people.

Anyways, i am going to go patent the concept of an Operating System tomorrow since AFAIK it isnt patented then i'll go suing everyone once i get a someone with a few bucks who is interested, maybe even Acacia Media ;)

Clearly you cannot ignore the fact you're being sued but until you're served papers tell them to GFY.

I dont think they will go after big companies. They know they will lose. If they stick to the little guys who get scared im guessing you could bring in a nice chunk of change without risking your patent unitl someone decides to fight it.

Still, how hard could it be to prove what they have is nothing more than complete bullshit. Yes it is up to you to prove it is bullshit in the court of law but no one says you cannot turn the case around to make them have to defend everything they've done in regards to this.

Bottom line is, if you're really concerned about this and what to see where you stand go find a good IT lawyer.

Joe

Wow... I just got the patent for " shooting cum in a girl's mouth"!

I am rich!!!!

Josh I received 2 letters from them. I called them on the phone and explained that our videos are all in zip format and are not displayed on our site as a sample, only a few pics of the frames. That was about 5 months ago and I have never heard from them again.

I geuss you forget the lawsuite a while back Mac filled against gui OS'es:-)

here is all the info you need Boys & Girls:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...,767313,00.asp
An article written about it and it even states Acacia has 69 million in cash to fight with.

I got the big pack in November I think, with all the license stuff in.

I of course did not fill it out. So next thing is, I guess, the actual papers. I am in breach since Jan 1st.

http://www.acaciaresearch.com/dmt/dmt_visdep.html
OMG.. pure bullshit

haha. ok.

a couple of things. The guys at homegrownvideo and holio have a legal team that is ready to battle these guys. give them a call if you want to be part of their umbrella.

Acacia DOES NOT want to go to court. If they do, the patent has to be challanged and it usually takes 2-3 years and costs about $2M in legal fees.

They are going after the small guys first and then will try the big fish. The only reason this is working is because people ARE paying the fees.

I will do everything in my power to not pay these guys a single cent. I dont' care if I have to move to some small african country and serve videos from there, I'll do it.

m0rph3us I live in Australia and the bandwidth costs here would be too high for that. As an example I pay US$200 per month to my ISP for a 1.5 MB ADSL line with a limit of 10 GB transfer. So I'm not sure if Africa would be a solution but maybe Russia and a couple of others.

It would be interesting to know what the cost would be should any of use require a host in a EU country.

Been there a few years ago with a company out of the midwest that claimed to have all sorts of patents on jpeg compression. They wanted to get license agreements with anyone using jpegs on their sites.

if there's a will there's a way.

If EVERYONE has to pay acacia (doubt it), for certian *volume* companies, it might be more economical to move their servers in a courty that acacia doesn't have a patent in.

Let's see.. 13% of GROSS volume or whatever the fuck they are asking + rights to review my books? uhm yeah...

I'm afraid this is not going to go away.

I am not an attorney, however I have been through a few legal battles involving copyright laws and enforcement and I believe this is a serious problem that ultimately can affect everyone of us who streams videos over their own servers. I have studied these patents and it appears that, while very broad in scope and *possibly* not enforceable, they are legitimate and based on processes used by virtually anyone who is serving audio or video files over the Internet.

Unfortunately Acacia not only has a broad patent, they have also offered our industry a complicated and demanding license agreement. Acacia's content provider license, in its present state requires all content providers to report the contact information of every customer they license or lease content to, something I am staunchly opposed to. Acacia views those sites that link to lease video services using "their patents" as requiring licenses too.

This is where I believe the biggest problems with their license lies. I do not understand why site owners who use only lease galleries that are licensed should need a license. Shouldn't they be covered under a content provider's license? Unless they also serve their own videos on their servers, they are not using the Acacia technology. They are only providing their members with a link. They have no control over the video in any way. The link is only valid if the Content Provider enables it. The Acacia covered content is not shown on their URLs or on their domains. If they need a license, then shouldn't every end consumer? The consumer is more in violation than a site owner who offers only leased feeds. The end user controls the play and replay of the videos.

I believe that going after site owners that do not serve their own video is what causes the most opposition. Those site owners that only lease, are contributory at the very most, and if they only link to licensed providers they would not even be that.

Ultimately anyone with any presence on the net, with a business that is worth anything, whether located in the US or not will probably be affected. If someone is only making a few hundred bucks a month they can probably slide, modify their content or just close up shop when/if they get served. But for those who run serious businesses -- especially those that are based in, or have a customer base in, countries who honor the patents in question --and who have something worth losing, they are going to have to make some difficult decisions.

-- Do you hire attorneys and fight it on your own? join a group intent on fighting it? Do you decide to feed attorneys untold thousands of dollars for a indeterminate length of time, with absolutely no guarantee of winning? -- all on the premise that the patents will eventually be overturned, allowing you to be released from all liability for your past and ongoing infringing during the undoubtedly long and drawn out legal proceedings?
I would like to see the Vegas odds on this one.

-- Do you ignore it -- with fingers crossed, and hope it goes away.... or that you can fly under the radar, and not be sued or shut down with a court injunction?

-- Do you pack up your business and move your servers to offshore or foreign hosting and registration where the patents can't be enforced? - (far offshore or 3rd world maybe) - and then try and manage all the other aspects of your business (like hosting costs, billing companies, Visa/MC registrations etc.)... this could only be worthwhile to even try, if you are a very "big dollar operation".... (If a content provider who provides leased galleries, trying to circumvent Acacia's patents could put your customers at risk. You face the possibility of Acacia going after your customers. At the very least site owners using lease video feeds that are not licensed *could* be held liable upon notification, as contributory infringers, and face legal sanctions.)

-- Do you "cave-in" to the Acacia licensing demands, and hope that eventually it might get overturned so you can stop paying? However by agreeing to their demands and following the requirements of the license agreement, if you are a content provider, you would in all likelihood alienate every customer you have and impact greatly on your future business.

-- Do you try to find a way to negotiate a fair and reasonable license with Acacia so you can carry on your business and still protect the privacy of your customers?

I have already had experience with lawyers and lawsuits and fickle judges with little understanding of how the Internet works, so the latter is more to my taste.

I met with Rob Berman of Acacia here in Las Vegas during Internext and have been in communication with him on several occasions since. I had read an interview where he had said he was looking for 2%, however the contract sent to us had TIER licensing fees, with minimums that would put many smaller companies almost out of business.

I think the initial flat rate TIER minimums offered are just not feasible for small site owners and have far too much space between them to charge equitable fees. 90% of site owners would probably fall in the lowest TIER and the majority of them probably bring in less annually than that TIER rate.

Another problem with his license is that fees are to be based on Gross Income. In many cases including ours, video is NOT the major part of the content on our sites and is not the major source of income for our content licensing and lease galleries. Yet our fees would be based on our total gross income, the same as licensing and leasing sites that are 75% to 100% video.

Mr. Berman has stated his desire to work out a license that is fair and allows our industry to continue being profitable. Like many in the general public, he thinks every adult business is extremely profitable and has little knowledge of all the actual expenses and problems we already face. Most of our pies are already cut into many little pieces, and we have tried to stress that his minimum fees will hurt many of the smaller site owners, that are actually the backbone of the industry.

We are working to negotiate a content provider license with Acacia that will not require the disclosure of our customers, and will indemnify our customers against any legal action from the use of our galleries and free them of any need for license for their use of our lease galleries.

We wish to continue to offer our customers and their members uninterrupted service without legal concerns while the battle over the enforceability and validity of the patent rages on.

We agree that there are certain principals here that are at stake. The most important of these however is to provide for our customers and to honor what appears to be a valid existing patent - until proven otherwise - the same way we expect to have the copyrights on our content honored.

I'm sure the all the baseless rhetoric will continue, but ultimately it comes down to who you want to give your money to... the patent holder or the attorneys.


"JC"

John Copeland - President
PIXOTNA Productions Inc
http://www.bestadultcontent.com
http://www.bacgalleries.com

You're working with them? Pussy. You goddamned fucking pussy.

Wasn't an email. This was an ACTUAL letter and packet sent to me via USPS.

Also, I'm not hosting ANY movie files from my server or any of my sites. All I am doing is linking to sponsors and to peoples galleries that submit to my TGP. This is rediculous if they can come after you for linking to someones site which contains movies and streaming data. If this is the case, all that I should/need to do is just stop linking to movie galleries and they have no case, right?

Agreed. Fucking pathetic.

I bet you'll sure be grateful when someone hands them their ass though, won't ya? Not that you won't have ADDED TO THE PROBLEM!

Bloody pussies.

if you shoot exclusive video for your sites, they want *double* the percentage.

yeah.

What the fuck difference should it make if it is exclusive or not?

I wonder if I could copy right jacking off and make people pay me everytime they fuck their hands.

they say that such a situation makes you both a content provider, and a webmaster. lol

You've got to be kidding me. I can't wait until someone kills these little bitches off.

Haha. I was going to say that as a guess.

John is a smart businessman who is simply protecting his clients from any potential legal action for using his content.

The fact that he has the resources to do this speaks volumes for his success. I've done business with John's content company before. Top notch player.

He's still a pussy. People like that make me sick. I'll bankrupt myself a thousand times over before paying Acacia one thin dime.

Well, I respect your pride. But consider this... if everyone using John's content was sued by Acacia, one of two things would happen... they would either be forced to cooperate anyway by law, or be forced out of the business, because most of them wouldn't have the means to defend themselves in a class action lawsuit by a multi-million dollar company. In my opinion, John is doing what is necessary to protect his interests and keep his clients shielded from this.

I dont' agree with Acacia's ploy to inflate their stock value by using smoke and mirror patents, but until they are either brought up on investigation for anti-trust violations, or have their patents revoked, there's not much anyone can do here except protect themselves.

If you want to place the blame on someone for helping Acacia along, then you need to point the finger at one of these giants:

JVC
Phillips Electronics
Samsung
Hitachi

All these million-dollar companies are already paying Acacia royalties on their patents. How do you think Acacia got the funds they have to sue everyone?

I find it curious that nobody has yet mentioned prior art.

There is plenty of evidence that the concept of "encdoding and delivering" video that they claim copyright to was in existance prior to the issuance of this patent.

I believe the mpegs standards body was already formed at this point, bbs users were trading small video clips etc..etc..

This is the part that suprises me.

I'll be curious to see how homegrown and holio fair with their legal battle on this issue.

Unfortunately I have to concur that John is the reason that there is a problem. People caving into unreasonable patent claims.

Funny thing too is that Acacia probably would have had a broad and silent win if they would have made reasonable requests... requests based on net and percentage of revenue derived from video might actually be inexpensive enough to just brush off as a business expense, unfortunately the idea of royalties on gross are absolutely ridiculous. There are too many people with small margins.

Bottom line, patents are there to protect inventions and neither Acacia nor the original filer invented anything. They are leeches.

Exactly. I've read their patents. Smoke and mirrors people, it is all just a load of crap. Like Hooper said, they invented *nothing* nor did the person that filed the patent.

Has anyone given the heads up to AOl, Microsoft, and Reals legal departments. It would not be to their advantage to have a legal precedent established so they may wan to join in the battle early on. At least filing a friend of the court brief.

Try doing a search on Acacia. Here are a few of what I found. Acacia are a bunch of lawyers who think we will roll over.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=acacia

http://www.extremetech.com/article2...3,767313,00.asp

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=acacia

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=acacia

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ghlight=acacia

Take this seriously, do not dismiss it.

What if the content provider is located in a country that does not recognise the patent?

That could make life very interesting for us guys in Czech. Personally I want to see these Acacia assholes shafted.