Is there a sponser that doesn't shave!!! - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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lamrobertson

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#1

Is there a sponser that doesn't shave!!!

01-19-2003, 04:11 AM

Since around the 1st I have been sending traffic thru ppc se's directly to a few different sponsers. I can't believe that it looks like more than a few are shaving. One sponser shows half the number of uniques to the sponser than the ppc. So I am sure I probably lost quite a few sales there. Another sponser is showing very high uniques and very few sales. There is actually only one small sponser that goes through ibill that I am pretty sure they couldn't shave. So is that the only way I can know for sure? Pick sponsers that don't have their own stats program. Everything is processed through the billing company?

Lorna
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RMG2

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#2

01-19-2003, 04:15 AM

Do yourself a favor and stay away from PayPerSignup. Recurring companies seem to be more honest.
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lamrobertson

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#3

01-19-2003, 04:18 AM

Yeah that one that goes straight through Ibill is recurring and the others are signups. Just f*ucking pisses me off that I am putting my money into ppc se's and they are shaving from me.

Lorna
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MonkeyMan

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#4

01-19-2003, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by RMG2
Do yourself a favor and stay away from PayPerSignup. Recurring companies seem to be more honest.

what the hell kinda logic is that??? if a rev share progame shaves you lose even more money.... theres absolutly no basis for your comment. Many companies offer both.... so does this make one plan more honest then the other??? um.... no

more thank likely it has to do with the 3rd billing party not the type of program.

Last edited by MonkeyMan; 01-19-2003, 04:20 AM.
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RMG2

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#5

01-19-2003, 04:22 AM

Yawn, gfy is boring.

Note i said SEEM more honest. 90% of sponsors out there shave regardless...I just personally have always done better with recurring.

Whats sad to me is that out of all the webmasters there are and even the ones on this board...no one really gives a shit that the biggest companies are robbing them blind. Guess thats why everyone sells traffic these days.
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Tipsy

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#6

01-19-2003, 04:25 AM

If you're in this for the money then who sends you the most for each $ of traffic you send to them? Getting worried about other stats/stuff is far less important. Rather than getting your knickers in a twist about who's tracking the most hits worry about who's making you the most $'s.

Shaving's a pain in the ass and naive at best to think it doesn't happen but the real important factor is what company makes you the most money.

Ignorance is never bliss.
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MonkeyMan

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#7

01-19-2003, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by RMG2
Yawn, gfy is boring.
Whats sad to me is that out of all the webmasters there are and even the ones on this board...no one really gives a shit that the biggest companies are robbing them blind. Guess thats why everyone sells traffic these days.

First off, yawning in text is gay and if the forum is "boring" don't fucking read it.

And you know the larger companies shaving is a fact becasue??? You have spyware in their systems... You have seen proof or evidence of them admiting it?

Whats your point. What should we do???? Theres really not much we can do.

(i'm not saying they don't)
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lamrobertson

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#8

01-19-2003, 04:27 AM

Billing processor? I don't know! There is ibill, paycom, and websitebilling. The one that is showing half the uniques is paycom. So maybe I should look at the billing processors of the companies that I promote?
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Lethal

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#9

01-19-2003, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by Tipsy
Shaving's a pain in the ass and naive at best to think it doesn't happen but the real important factor is what company makes you the most money.

Agreed. It's either put up with it or open your own paysites.
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lamrobertson

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#10

01-19-2003, 04:30 AM

If I onyl promoted sponsers without there own stats programs that only go through the processor wouldn't that solve the problem? Is it possible for them to shave when they are setup this way?

Lorna
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lamrobertson

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#11

01-19-2003, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by Lethal

Agreed. It's either put up with it or open your own paysites.

Yeah that is what I am thinking. Maybe this is why it seems like everyone has there own paysite.
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Lethal

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#12

01-19-2003, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by lamrobertson
Billing processor? I don't know! There is ibill, paycom, and websitebilling. The one that is showing half the uniques is paycom. So maybe I should look at the billing processors of the companies that I promote?

Do the clicks go straight to the processor or are they sent through the sponsor's tracking script? It is very easy for the sponsor to drop the referrer info in the latter situation.
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Tipsy

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#13

01-19-2003, 04:32 AM

Part of the problem with 'shaving' is although it nearly always benefits the person running the program it needn't always be intentional. There's a lot of crap tracking software out there and systems still relying 100% on cookies that often really screw up stats. You not only need an honest company but one with competent technical staff.

Again, unless you can prove 100% that they are just worry about the $'s over a decent period of time. Little else matters.

Ignorance is never bliss.
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lamrobertson

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#14

01-19-2003, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by Lethal

Do the clicks go straight to the processor or are they sent through the sponsor's tracking script? It is very easy for the sponsor to drop the referrer info in the latter situation.

Only 1 of them goes straight to the processor. Which is the one I think isn't shaving. The others go throught the sponser's tracking script.
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Tipsy

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#15

01-19-2003, 04:34 AM

Depending on your situation, with the overheads of running a paysite it's not always a viable option. Unless you can really pull the traffic/sales in running one will cost you far more than many sponsor take in % and shaving combined.

Ignorance is never bliss.
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lamrobertson

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#16

01-19-2003, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by Tipsy
Part of the problem with 'shaving' is although it nearly always benefits the person running the program it needn't always be intentional. There's a lot of crap tracking software out there and systems still relying 100% on cookies that often really screw up stats. You not only need an honest company but one with competent technical staff.

Again, unless you can prove 100% that they are just worry about the $'s over a decent period of time. Little else matters.

These aren't little sponsers. I think they would have put the money into a script that is running properly. Or at least they do have the money to put the money into a proper script.

There is no way I keep sending traffic to a sponser that is stealing half of everything I send. Not a chance!
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Tipsy

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#17

01-19-2003, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by lamrobertson

These aren't little sponsers. I think they would have put the money into a script that is running properly. Or at least they do have the money to put the money into a proper script.

Putting money into a script and having a script that works well are two totally different things. Clickcash used to be a wonderful example of that. Haven't pushed them since the beginning of last year (for obvious reasons) so maybe it's changed but their software used to be truly awful although I'd be very surprised if it was cheap.

Ignorance is never bliss.
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Va2k

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#18

01-19-2003, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by lamrobertson
Since around the 1st I have been sending traffic thru ppc se's directly to a few different sponsers. I can't believe that it looks like more than a few are shaving. One sponser shows half the number of uniques to the sponser than the ppc. So I am sure I probably lost quite a few sales there. Another sponser is showing very high uniques and very few sales. There is actually only one small sponser that goes through ibill that I am pretty sure they couldn't shave. So is that the only way I can know for sure? Pick sponsers that don't have their own stats program. Everything is processed through the billing company?

Lorna

Hey I don't shave give me a try. If there is something you need let me know and it will be yours ie, content, free hosting etc... I also have free hosted galleries.

TOM
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lamrobertson

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#19

01-19-2003, 04:46 AM

lol Tipsey you have one of the sponsers in your sig!
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Tipsy

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#20

01-19-2003, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by lamrobertson
lol Tipsey you have one of the sponsers in your sig!

I get ratios of better than 1-40 with them most of the time. Find me another with the niches I push that they have that does that well and I'll switch immediately.

Ignorance is never bliss.
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Lethal

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#21

01-19-2003, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by Tipsy

I get ratios of better than 1-40 with them most of the time. Find me another with the niches I push that they have that does that well and I'll switch immediately.

Is that 1:40 measured at your end or their end?
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lamrobertson

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#22

01-19-2003, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by va2k

Hey I don't shave give me a try. If there is something you need let me know and it will be yours ie, content, free hosting etc... I also have free hosted galleries.

TOM

Looks good. I will send the site some hits today and see how I do with it.

Thanks I will hit you up in icq later.

Lorna
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lamrobertson

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#23

01-19-2003, 04:53 AM

Originally posted by Lethal

Is that 1:40 measured at your end or their end?

lol good question!

I'm not looking at how sales I have gotten from the traffic. I am looking at the fact that I sent so many uniques and only half are tracked! If all uniques had been tracked how many sales would I have made?

Lorna
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#24

01-19-2003, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by Lethal

Is that 1:40 measured at your end or their end?

The 1-40 is measured their end but I got tracking my end too and it's not too far off. It only starts to differ hugely if I start chucking shit traffic into it.

Even so...click tracking and signups are far higher for me with them than any other I've tried in SOME of their niches. They have a few niches I can't convert for shit but then I simply don't push those.

As I say all you can do is try a sponsor and see if they make you more $ at the end of the period. I'm not in this for fun so simply use the one that currently makes me the most.

Ignorance is never bliss.
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#25

01-19-2003, 04:56 AM

Always look for the RiverStyx logo on a sponsor's stats page. At least then you know what you're getting yourself into :-)
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Lethal

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#26

01-19-2003, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by lamrobertson

If all uniques had been tracked how many sales would I have made?

A lot of sponsors will shave clicks (sometimes at a different ratio to how they shave sign ups) to make the ratios look better. IMO the only measurement you can trust is your own click tracking - then you have a uniform standard to work out your $/click.
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#27

01-19-2003, 04:58 AM

The only person i trust sending traffic to is myself

355 north
Adultdatelink.com
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PornBroker

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#28

01-19-2003, 05:03 AM

If you'd like a recurring sponsor, we pay 80% on all GROSS revenue.
Stats verification and payments are 3rd party from AC Pay.
Count your own hits out and see how we convert for you......

please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste...I've been around for a long long year stolen many man's soul and faith...I was around when jesus christ had his moment of doubt and pain...made damn sure that pilate washed his hands and sealed his fate...pleased to meet you hope you guess my name...but's what's puzzling you is the nature of my game...
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XXX_Jman

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#29

01-19-2003, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by PornBroker
If you'd like a recurring sponsor, we pay 80% on all GROSS revenue.
Stats verification and payments are 3rd party from AC Pay.
Count your own hits out and see how we convert for you......

doing good for us PB. it's a pity those acpay stats aren't a little bit more comprehensive though. conversions are excellent

XXX_Jman

"To win without fighting is best"
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lamrobertson

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#30

01-19-2003, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by PornBroker
If you'd like a recurring sponsor, we pay 80% on all GROSS revenue.
Stats verification and payments are 3rd party from AC Pay.
Count your own hits out and see how we convert for you......

hey let me know where I can find fullpage ads? I don't see any?

Icq 161212855

Thanks
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XXX_Jman

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#31

01-19-2003, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by lamrobertson

hey let me know where I can find fullpage ads? I don't see any?

Icq 161212855

Thanks

I don't think they have them on the site, but send him an email to support at slinkypartners.com and I am sure he will help ya

XXX_Jman

"To win without fighting is best"
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stocktrader23

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#32

01-19-2003, 05:40 AM

Pornbroker AIM me if you can.

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gothweb

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#33

01-19-2003, 06:04 AM

I love the hints of defensive hostility in this thread. The simple fact is that when people offer a ton of money per signup, they can't make money without shaving-- so they force themselves into it. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is. People are just greedy and short-sighted.

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#34

01-19-2003, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by MonkeyMan

First off, yawning in text is gay and if the forum is "boring" don't fucking read it.

And you know the larger companies shaving is a fact becasue??? You have spyware in their systems... You have seen proof or evidence of them admiting it?

Whats your point. What should we do???? Theres really not much we can do.

(i'm not saying they don't)

Proof of sponsors shaving?

http://64.38.235.153/dollars4all.jpg

Last edited by LukieD; 01-19-2003, 06:40 AM.
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Ian

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#35

01-19-2003, 06:35 AM

Recurring, no shaving, pays 60/40 with great ratios.
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mpegposter

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#36

01-19-2003, 06:36 AM

www.thestatistician.com

They show 'out' clicks and the count from sponsors. In defense of some of them (i.e. PornKings) they only count second page uniques, probably to give the illusion of awesome ratios.

When a sponsor is pretty close to dead on the traffic numbers I am pretty surprised. As you see some of them shave up to 40-60% of the total incoming hit numbers.

Here's a clue: if your incoming hits are not being counted, chances are they are losing cookie/referrer. That COULD mean they are being shaved, either globally or on your account directly (that's right, someone may not like you!). If the cookie/referrer does not track, ANY SALES FROM THOSE HITS PROBABLY WON'T EITHER. This excludes those 2nd page counting sponsors I mentioned, so make sure you check before you cry foul.

Sucks, but them's the facts of life.

The voice of the Moral Minority.

New Sponsor Converting Like Hell!
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#37

01-19-2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by gothweb
If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Just read the rules / fine print / know the prog back to front before you send any traffic.
Don't bitch later when you find out you are not being paid for exits / checks etc when you *thought* you were going to be.
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#38

01-19-2003, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by RMG2
Yawn, gfy is boring.

Note i said SEEM more honest. 90% of sponsors out there shave regardless...I just personally have always done better with recurring.

Whats sad to me is that out of all the webmasters there are and even the ones on this board...no one really gives a shit that the biggest companies are robbing them blind. Guess thats why everyone sells traffic these days.

Put us to the test.

We don't shave and we never will. P4B 4life

Pornkings.com
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Pornkings

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#39

01-19-2003, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by mpegposter
www.thestatistician.com

They show 'out' clicks and the count from sponsors. In defense of some of them (i.e. PornKings) they only count second page uniques, probably to give the illusion of awesome ratios.

When a sponsor is pretty close to dead on the traffic numbers I am pretty surprised. As you see some of them shave up to 40-60% of the total incoming hit numbers.

Here's a clue: if your incoming hits are not being counted, chances are they are losing cookie/referrer. That COULD mean they are being shaved, either globally or on your account directly (that's right, someone may not like you!). If the cookie/referrer does not track, ANY SALES FROM THOSE HITS PROBABLY WON'T EITHER. This excludes those 2nd page counting sponsors I mentioned, so make sure you check before you cry foul.

Sucks, but them's the facts of life.

We show first page hits on the new improved Pornkings
for about a month now. Just to show it doesn't really matter about the hits as long as you get all your sales. BOTTOM LINE

as you can see our conversions are even great with the statistician stats

also check out our stats and you decide a post from a happy Webmaster we have nothing to hide
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=100968

Last edited by Pornkings; 01-19-2003, 06:27 PM.

Pornkings.com
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Sly_RJ

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#40

01-19-2003, 06:27 PM

Listen...

Every sponsor will tell you they don't shave, even the ones who do. You need to make your own decision on who you want to believe and how much you actually care.

I don't even push recurring sites anymore frankly because I'm sick of them. I lose money every time I push them. Maybe the conversions are better, but the money I take home hardly ever is. With my personal projects I'm doing a campaign right now pushing PPS only, and I'm doing much better than I did with recurring. Maybe I just can't sell recurring, who knows.

Does it really matter if a recurring site is giving you better conversions, if your end paycheck is less? No. Fuck no!

Essentially, you're selling traffic. You're not selling members. You pass on surfers to another company, it's their responsibility to get every penny from them possible, not yours. So why should you worry about it?

With that said, I'm going to tell you that we don't shave. Whether you believe me or not is your gig. But you'll never know until you give us a try and test out your traffic.

If you're ready to do a test, I'd be more than happy to help you out.

PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price!
sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144
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lagwagon

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#41

01-19-2003, 06:33 PM

hey try this http://www.sponsorsthatdontshave.com

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KRL

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#42

01-19-2003, 06:36 PM

Look, its an industry wide practice so just learn to work your numbers around it.

Some of the biggest sponsors that shave generate nice signup revenues regardless so does it really matter? Its not malicious. They just do it to survive the insane competition between sponsors.

If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor
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Catalinas

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#43

01-19-2003, 06:40 PM

Sly RJ... what sites do you run? I'm always looking for new sponsors.

Catalina ; )
ICQ 86215052
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Dveron

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#44

01-19-2003, 06:41 PM

Send the traffic to yourself, fuck all these shaving punks.

Adult Comics Club - Updated Bi-Daily. 60% Recurring Payouts. Exclusive Comic Content.
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Catalinas

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#45

01-19-2003, 06:42 PM

Oh and btw, we don't shave, we pay per sign up going straight thru ccbill stats.

www.hometowncash.com

Catalina ; )
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Sly_RJ

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#46

01-19-2003, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Catalinas
Sly RJ... what sites do you run? I'm always looking for new sponsors.

Catalina ; )
ICQ 86215052

I added you to my ICQ. Looking forward to talking with you.

PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price!
sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144
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kenny

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#47

01-19-2003, 06:48 PM

The Internet is young, alot of online companies use fraud as a part of their buisness model. Over the course of time fraud based models along with many other things will change.

7
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galleryseek

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#48

01-19-2003, 06:50 PM

shaveless.com
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#49

01-19-2003, 06:52 PM

A good friend of mine is my sponser,and he never shaved any of my signups,he doesnt need to he's loaded..anyways,if you'd like more information please hit me up on ICQ,177821488
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tfone

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#50

01-19-2003, 06:55 PM

Check out AB Cashcow

http://adultbrowser.com/webmasters

Good stuff that converts
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