Can I prove he used his credit card? They are fucking Nuts! - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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reddawg

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#1

Can I prove he used his credit card? They are fucking Nuts!

12-26-2002, 11:00 PM

My processor said can I prove he was the one who used the card?

My response was long and nasty, I hope I am not looking for a new processor tommorow

But in essance I said can they prove that he wasn't the one?

and that a law suit should be filed against processing companies and cc companies for allowing chargebacks, giving them a free ride and they still make out as we stand there holding the bag.

I feel they could be held responsible for mishandling our funds and business which could go bankrupt due to them just charging back.

I think we as webmasters and business owners should file a class act against processing companies and cc companies for mishandling our funds.

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SleazyDream

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#2

12-26-2002, 11:02 PM

new visa laws - fuck up once, never get processing again.

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DjSap

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#3

12-26-2002, 11:08 PM

You can't prove shit. To prove that the person used the credit card you have to have his or her signature, and since you don't have that you are fucked.

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psyko514

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#4

12-26-2002, 11:12 PM

reddawg: credit card companies lose money on chargebacks too. the same fees that apply to the processor apply to the bank doing the chargeback as well.

no one can prove beyond reasonable doubt that a surfer *did* in fact use their credit card. you can steal someone's card number, sign up from your house and access a site for three months. all your ip and download logs would show the same ip address, which isn't substantial proof.

how would you prove it beyond reasonable doubt? assuming you have the ip address:

- find out what isp it resolves to.
- find out the isp of the person doing the chargeback.
- determine if that ip address had ever been assigned to that person, on that/those dates(s)

now how would you go about finding his isp? and if you managed, how would you get a subpoena for the isp to release their logs to you in order to prove that Mr. Joe Blow was in fact connected to said IP addresses on said dates.

good luck.

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#5

12-26-2002, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by DjSap
You can't prove shit. To prove that the person used the credit card you have to have his or her signature, and since you don't have that you are fucked.

that's not true.
read your cardholder agreement (don't have a copy? ask your cc company to fax you one)
it clearly states that providing your card number and expiry date in order to do mail/phone/internet transactions is the equivalent of a signature.

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ChrisH

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#6

12-26-2002, 11:16 PM

There's nothing you can do. It fucking sucks big time, but it's just the way it is. I've had Visa tell me, "well it's very risky selling product online".

They have more access to my bank account then I do Fucking bastards

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asuna

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#7

12-26-2002, 11:18 PM

Well isn't there some sort of protection? like if someone chargeback's anythign online, they can't purchase anything online forever, or atleast a period of time?
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reddawg

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#8

12-26-2002, 11:21 PM

It bytes, I just thought it was a very stupid thing for them to ask me

I know it's all part of business but it still sucks..........>>>

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DjSap

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#9

12-26-2002, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by psyko514

that's not true.
read your cardholder agreement (don't have a copy? ask your cc company to fax you one)
it clearly states that providing your card number and expiry date in order to do mail/phone/internet transactions is the equivalent of a signature.

Yes but if the person says he didn't you can't prove shit. You need the signature to prove that it was the cardholder who used the card.

That's the only thing they take seriously nowadays. They took cvv2 seriously for about a year but now most carders get ahold of them at the same time as the card # so that is useless now.

Last edited by DjSap; 12-26-2002, 11:23 PM.

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SykkBoy

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#10

12-26-2002, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by asuna
Well isn't there some sort of protection? like if someone chargeback's anythign online, they can't purchase anything online forever, or atleast a period of time?

the problem with this line of thinking...
what if it was a legit chargeback? (not saying it was in this case, just using that as an example)

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funkmaster

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#11

12-26-2002, 11:27 PM

" I think we as webmasters and business owners should file a class act against processing companies and cc companies for mishandling our funds."

.. yes, that is a very smart idea, in the end the cc companies will get together and say: fuck those 3% we make from online porn, because those adultwebmasters cause 80% of our overall trouble.

I hope it will come to this, so I can finaly get of the damn net and retire ...
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#12

12-26-2002, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by SykkBoy2

the problem with this line of thinking...
what if it was a legit chargeback? (not saying it was in this case, just using that as an example)

a legit chargeback?
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#13

12-26-2002, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by DjSap
Yes but if the person says he didn't you can't prove shit. You need the signature to prove that it was the cardholder who used the card.

That's the only thing they take seriously nowadays. They took cvv2 seriously for about a year but now most carders get ahold of them at the same time as the card # so that is useless now.

dude, i work full time for a credit card company.
i can tell you two things right now: giving your cardnumber and expiry date is the equivalent of a signature. the signature is worth shit. a lot of people don't sign their cards. a lot of merchants don't match the signature on the back of the card to your bill. half the time, the credit card company doesn't have your signature on file (if you apply online or on the phone).
one of the easiest types of fraud is to buy something, make up a signature, then charge it back. when you get the affadavit, you say the sig is not yours and boom, chargeback issued.

and the cvv2 is pretty useless too the majority of the time. your processor doesn't verify that the cvv2 is correct. i've signed up for sites with 4 diff processors where my cvv2 was asked for. i've made them up everytime, and everytime my charge was approved.

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DjSap

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#14

12-26-2002, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by asuna

a legit chargeback?

1. somebody stole his card # and bought some porn
2. he found out
3. made a legit chargeback

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#15

12-26-2002, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by funkmaster
" I think we as webmasters and business owners should file a class act against processing companies and cc companies for mishandling our funds."

.. yes, that is a very smart idea, in the end the cc companies will get together and say: fuck those 3% we make from online porn, because those adultwebmasters cause 80% of our overall trouble.

I hope it will come to this, so I can finaly get of the damn net and retire ...

no business would ever say "forget that 3 (or 10 or .5) percent we're making". would you say "i don't like the costa ricans, forget that .75 percent i make from them".

try a lawsuit against the credit card companies. you'll lose without a doubt. not because their so big and powerful, but because your lawsuit has no legal grounds.

and asuna, a legit chargeback is a real chargeback. for example, you get your bill and you see a charge that isn't yours, or a charge that's for $100 more than what you agreed to pay. that's legitimate.

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#16

12-26-2002, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by psyko514

dude, i work full time for a credit card company.
i can tell you two things right now: giving your cardnumber and expiry date is the equivalent of a signature....

So how do you settle cases where somebody claims that they didn't make the purchase? Is it always in the favor of the card holder? What type of evidence will make you say no to a chargeback?

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#17

12-26-2002, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by DjSap

1. somebody stole his card # and bought some porn
2. he found out
3. made a legit chargeback

that's not a legit chargeback, that's fraud.

these are examples of legit chargebacks:
- you buy a shirt for $45, you get your statement and it says $60
- you cancel a subscription/membership to a gym/website/magazine/etc and they continue to bill you
- you order something and it's not delivered to you (non-receipt)
- you buy a red 21 speed bike and they give you a blue 18 speed (not as described)
- you don't recognize the charge (processing error)
- you were promised a credit from a store to your card and it was never given

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DjSap

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#18

12-26-2002, 11:38 PM

Doesn't fraud go under the chargeback column in all our stats?

heh everything i though seems to have been wrong, ah well you learn something new everyday...

Last edited by DjSap; 12-26-2002, 11:40 PM.

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#19

12-26-2002, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by DjSap
So how do you settle cases where somebody claims that they didn't make the purchase? Is it always in the favor of the card holder? What type of evidence will make you say no to a chargeback?

if we're talking about someone who's claiming a website membership isn't theirs, i ask them if they have the internet and what their email is. then i explain that the charge is for a company that bills for website memberships. i tell them to visit the customer service page of the processor and fill out the "check a charge" form. if after that, they still don't recognize it, i do it myself as well, look at the username, email address and name used to sign up. if it's not close to what they've given me, i tell them to send us a letter to dispute further. in a case like that, it's usually resolved in the cardholder's favor.

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#20

12-26-2002, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by DjSap
Doesn't fraud go under the chargeback column in all our stats?

in your stats, yes. when fraud is done, the charge is still chargedback. from there, it is determined who is at fault and who will suffer the loss. but to the client, it's not the same process as a chargeback.

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#21

12-27-2002, 01:21 AM

This whole topic is the reason why I tell all my webmaster clients that they should drop the whole credit card, money order, etc processing, and just tell their surfers to send them clean, cold cash.

Or they can always just send their credit card and driver's license to you... that way you could take down the proper information, and send them back (or throw them away like I do.)

I love posting BS.

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#22

12-27-2002, 01:45 AM

Hey Reddawg,

IMHO, as shitty as it may seem, you should move along and forget about the CB.

you'll sleep better that way, and you can direct your energies into something that might make you some money

Last edited by PornBroker; 12-27-2002, 01:49 AM.

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#23

12-27-2002, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by PornBroker
Hey Reddawg,

IMHO, as shitty as it may seem, you should move along and forget about the CB.

you'll sleep better that way, and you can direct your energies into something that might make you some money

It took this long for some one to come up with some common sense.

Move on and direct your thoughts and energies into replacing that CB. If you are getting to many then ask yourself why?

CB and the adult Internet is like the horse and cart. They come together.

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