traditional porn vs internet porn

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  • quiet
    we'll miss you our friend. RIP
    • Sep 2001
    • 25115

    #1

    traditional porn vs internet porn

    from lukeford.com:

    Problem with Internet porn is that nobody wants to invest in it properly.  It seems that exclusivity is what matters on the net.  I mean, why are the biggest, fattest sites on the Internet going blitzkrieg based on thier own content?  Nasty Dollars, Ox Cash, and one of the best converting sites out there now College FuckFest?  They have their own content exclusively on the net.

    To add more to their revenue streams, I've noticed that Nasty Dollars are busting out with their own DVDs and VHS tapes.  Isn't this the new wave where you sell directly to your fans and the consumer at retail prices so you don't have to deal with all the wholesale distributor prices and all the nonsense?  Suppose a company sells 100 DVD's a day.  Trust me, I wouldn't be surprised if the Nasty Dollars group are nailing this amount right now.  And their hitting them at retail prices.  No net terms, no catalog pricing, no bullshit.  This is the new wave by going right over the wholesalers and hitting the retail market smack dead on.

    Here's another interesting item of note.  The production companies can no longer compete with the Internet boys in terms of acquiring and keeping talent.  The large Internet sites pay better with no bullshit.  They just want their content.  I mean, how could the BlacksOnBlondes group over in Malibu shoot for well over 4 months, literally nonstop, to create 3 more paysites which they will market through TGPs like the hun and create large webmaster referral systems.  Name me one adult production company in the Valley that has the money to do this and pay what those boys paid.  Name me one production company that can compete when CumFiesta or CaptainStabbin rolls into town?  They can't.  And they won't.  And guess what, the Internet boys are quiet about it.  This is the real sea change happening in the business.

    So it looks like 2003 will be the beginning of a revolution in adult entertainment.  While I nurse a sore throat perhaps due to being glopped by herp juice by some goofy whore earlier, the only thing I can say is think of the future.  Magazines are dead.  VHS will be dead.  It will be hardcore satellite deals, possibly some form of VOD the technical facts of which hasn't yet been solidified, and exclusive content Internet sites.  Sometimes I feel that Porn Valley is clinging to a mirage.  What's the point of shooting the same girl over and over again?  What's the point of recycling the same girl who will be on the box of several companies?  What differences does it make?  Instead of waiting for your money, on the Internet, you see how much money comes in, and you know what your check is going to be.


    what do you think? discuss...
    we'll miss you our friend. RIP
  • Fletch XXX
    GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
    • Jan 2002
    • 60840

    #2
    Originally posted by quiet
    What's the point of recycling the same girl who will be on the box of several companies? 
    I personally dig the exclusive and original.

    Last edited by Fletch XXX; 12-24-2002, 02:40 AM.

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    • Fletch XXX
      GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
      • Jan 2002
      • 60840

      #3
      But then again, big hardcore movies on screen, standard cum swapping is good too. The more blondes the better,...but I like goth girls too and love redheads.

      Quality is what counts I think, as long as you catch the surfers attention and get the wallet out, the rest doesnt really matter.

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      • DjSap
        Confirmed User
        • Jul 2002
        • 3869

        #4
        nice little article...
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        • DjSap
          Confirmed User
          • Jul 2002
          • 3869

          #5
          Plus it's pretty true...if you invest properly then you have to be a real fuckup to fail in this business. It's just a matter of time before mainstream venture capitalists start investing in this business seriously, or they maybe already are doing that in the US?
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          • Scootermuze
            Confirmed User
            • Dec 2001
            • 4513

            #6
            Originally posted by DjSap
            Plus it's pretty true...if you invest properly then you have to be a real fuckup to fail in this business. It's just a matter of time before mainstream venture capitalists start investing in this business seriously, or they maybe already are doing that in the US?
            I think you'd be surprised at the number of these companies that are heavily invested in the adult industry under different names..

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            • EscortBiz
              Fuck Checks, CASH only!
              • May 2002
              • 19422

              #7
              going to the eye doctor

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              • Theo
                HAL 9000
                • May 2001
                • 34515

                #8
                How many can get some million dollars and invest them with good ROI in this industry? Very few.

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                • Paul Markham
                  Too old to care
                  • Jun 2001
                  • 52942

                  #9
                  Good article with some very good points. But it mised on a couple of things.

                  The problem for some websites with "Exclusive" is how to pay for it and how to recognise the difference between good and crap regular content.

                  We have many clients for our custom work, all seem happy with what we do and can't get enough. We also have now built up a list of buyers who buy from us on a very regular basis.

                  But we get lots of people approach us to buy "Exclusive" or want a deal. They are more interested in the price than the product and some do not even know the difference form good or bad and just quote what another site will sell for. An exclusives or cheap dogs turd still stinks.

                  We cannot and do not want to shoot an exclusive set for $200 or less. Why? One it cannot be done properly and be profitable, two when the set is released it only has to sell 6 times to bring in $210 so why sell it for less?

                  The opinion that magazines are dead was very wrong, the magazine industry did suffer a few years ago and this can be put down to the Internet. But now sales are climbing back up. Don't know about videos but would imagine it's the same.



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                  • Dveron
                    Confirmed User
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 2794

                    #10
                    Good article.

                    Now the internet growth has slowed somewhat and matured you have many experienced surfers who won't dig out their credit card for any of the lame cookie cutter paysites with a flash tour but little else that just recycles the same plugin junk over 30 sites.

                    Seems good business to me to actually give the surfer what he is looking for now in the way of fresh updated innovative content and keep him recurring.

                    I remember Serge saying a year or so back how a paysite with tons of unique content and one that just has the plugins and few other bits recur roughly the same. I doubt that is true anymore?
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                    • jimmyD
                      Registered User
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 14

                      #11
                      "Name me one adult production company in the Valley that has the money to do this and pay what those boys paid. Name me one production company that can compete when CumFiesta or CaptainStabbin rolls into town? They can't. And they won't."

                      Authored by a person who has had personal, working experience with precisely two porn companies--Extreme and Anabolic--and has about two years in the biz (running those company's websites).

                      There are numerous companies who could compete with production dollars, among them VCA, Vivid, Hustler, Sin City, Leisure Time. The part where the author says, "...they won't" is more accurate. But for many reasons not included in his essay.

                      Traditional porn is not down for the count yet. To underestimate the resiliency of some of these companies is a mistake. Some of them have huge warchests and even bigger libraries (content already in the can).


                      http://www.simplyjimmyd.com
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                      • BradShaw
                        Confirmed User
                        • Oct 2001
                        • 7840

                        #12
                        I would think you will see alot more crossing over from internet to traditional porn. For instance we are working on marketing deals on the videos from our reality sites to distribute them in video stores, etc. on DVD. Also, looking to sell off rights to companies that broadcast porn on satellite in US and worldwide.

                        I actually think there may be more $ to be made crossing over into the gay market.
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                        • Mutt
                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 34431

                          #13
                          Charly, the problem for you as a content company and me because i'm doing the same thing now is that there are guys, lots of them in the adult vid industry who don't make a lot of money, producers get stiffed in that business all the time, the terms of payment are a joke - the distributors who take the product on consignment basically take MONTHS often to pay the producers.

                          So when a Net company contacts one of these guys and says 'we need some quality scenes for a new website', there are guys out there willing to do quality work for a small profit, especially when they find out their check will be delivered the next day.

                          I'm trying to put together good video industry companies with solid Net companies. The marriage of great content and great traffic. Hopefully a couple of these marriages will work out in the next little while.

                          quality exclusive video content can be had for less that you are charging Charly. I have seen it with my own eyes.
                          I ain't happy about it - you can't compete with a guy who has some talent, can get hot girls, and all he really wants is a hundred bucks profit, he'll get some sex himself if he puts himself in the scene.

                          I don't know 'Wanker Wang' personally but i have been talking to people who do know him, guys who shoot sometimes for the company he webmasters for, a lot of that article sounds like it came from me.

                          I think also like Jimmy that there are companies in Porn Valley who if they put their minds to it, do have the resources to succeed, it doesn't take MILLIONS, more than 100 grand though of course.

                          And none of us know the future of the Internet, digital cable/satellite , digital cable that is truly interactive, VOD, etc could very well become the dominant player in porn. Broadband isn't here, and it doesn't look like it's going to be here for a long time. Net companies don't have any digital cable or satellite channels, other than IGallery/New Frontier. So over time this market could shrink considerably. I don't know enough about what the technical capabilities of digital cable/satellite is but I gotta think it will be possible for customers to download interactive DVD content, access still photo galleries, HDTV quality video - everything an Internet site can do and more.

                          Cookie cutter paysite programs are still dominating the Internet, but if u notice, these are companies with deep roots in the Net, at least 5 years, very smart people. So the need for exclusive content is probably exaggerated. But if you notice, the ONLY newer companies, 3 years or less, that have made any imprint in the biz are guys shooting their own stuff.
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                          • cherrylula
                            lol
                            • Jan 2002
                            • 15969

                            #14
                            Interesting... I used to work in "porn valley" at a live net studio and its funny cause 3-4 years ago this company would not hire girls with tattoos or piercings, and if they did its cause they were really cute and skinny enough.

                            If a girl was not stripper skinny we would have to use certain rooms with different cam angles and keep a close eye on the shots.

                            We would stash the tattoo girls in less visible rooms and be very careful not to let the boss see anything he didn't like. It was all about that stupid fucking porn star look.

                            And they paid these girls like $30 an hour for 3 or 6 hour shifts, taped them, shot pictures, everything... super duper tight with the talent wages and it was always a fucking struggle to get them to show up and work because of this.

                            And then if any of them caught on to their footage being replayed overnight while someone earned 8 bucks to chat and pretend they were them... well often talent would get super pissed if you can imagine. Especially if their shifts had been cut. Some of them did not even know they were being taped, it was in the release form but they dont' read those things. Talent was not allowed in the control room.

                            I fucking hated working there. But I will say had they not been so fucking dumb and only focusing on the typical corporate porn thing that they could have done a lot better.

                            It was always baffling to the boss why one or two girls - the last chance ones we'd schedule and yet the more amateur ones with more personality - were some of the more popular ones. The same chunky and or tatted/pierced girls we had to hide from the boss. Go figure.

                            But who cares, let porn valley rot. They're not going anywhere anyhow. More amateur and modern internet porn is so much cooler.

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                            • KRL
                              Entrepreneur
                              • Oct 2002
                              • 31429

                              #15
                              Magazines are not what they used to be though Charly. And I doubt they will ever come back. Hustler's down to 500,000 circ right now off their latest rate card. And that's the top dog of them all.

                              Hardcore video guys in the Valley are a whole different breed of cat then the Net guys. They are seasoned and have very deep pockets, but they were resistant to change and the Geeks came in out of nowhere and bulldozed right into their markets. Its too late now, the Geeks have captured the public's eyeballs and thats not changing either. The industry was due for a shakeup anyway so its probably for the better in the long run.

                              The money guys will always be lurking somewhere in the background with their fingers in the pie one way or another, doing the financing no matter who's producing and distributing.

                              There are 2 big adult money making trends coming in 2003.
                              Last edited by KRL; 12-24-2002, 10:26 AM.
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                              • Paul Markham
                                Too old to care
                                • Jun 2001
                                • 52942

                                #16
                                Mutt
                                You are right and wrong. The traditional porn industry will pay you straight away if you have what they want.

                                Yes I can shoot a video a lot cheaper than I do, but why? A video and photoset that does not sell 5 times @ $70 ($350) is a real loser. So why should I sell it custom for less? Not in trouble for money. Don't need the extra work.

                                But what you are right with is putting the traditional porn industry together with the Internet geeks. Porn companies have a mountain of stock and little idea and distrust of the Internet, plus for them the $$ investment will not frighten them.

                                Look at how well we've done in less than a year, we know how to produce the right content, all we had to doo was learn how to market on the net.

                                KRL
                                I said magazines were hit by the net, but I also said they are now holding their circulations numbers. They also have very deep pockets, it just needs the will to come into this market. Look at where Flyn Digital is today.



                                Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
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                                • Wanker_W
                                  Registered User
                                  • Dec 2002
                                  • 4

                                  #17
                                  JimmyD, we're friends bro, but I beg to differ. Traditional bullshit, pizza delivery boy, conjured-up horseshit porn is dying bigtime. Hustler's going to take over the satellite deals and knock the one of the biggest satellite boys right out of the business in 2003 as well.

                                  I've met alot of Internet boys over the past few months like Cable (over DogFarter.com which should be dead in a week) and one thing I've noticed is a different vibe as opposed to all these hyenas lurking in the Video world clinging like leeches just so they can sell 800 units of the latest video garbage. (of course they'll actually get paid for about 600 of those units which of course will take several months). Almost everybody's crying about money, almost everyone is slicing everyone's throats just to get a crumb, almost everyone barely can eke out enough money to pay rent (and that includes the dumbass porn whores). It's so fucking sad, I find it hilarious.

                                  Leisure Time is the biggest, richest company out there. Bigger than Vivid or Hustler. But try to sell those stupid comps with supposed barnyard animals or prosthetic giant vulvas on a paysite and see how far they go.

                                  I'm a little drunk this early morning and I need my beauty nap. But maybe it's time to revisit the notion that as time passes, the porn companies will start squirming, clinging to the past while the big Internet boys profit off their sites and go full circle into the DVD market. That seems to be a trend. A trend I see after drinking a bucketfull of beers. Sorry if I was rambling. And Jimmy, when I buy you oysters in Vegas, that will be the last time I work for a production company.
                                  Last edited by Wanker_W; 12-26-2002, 04:04 AM.
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                                  • High Quality
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Feb 2002
                                    • 5741

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by EscortBiz
                                    going to the eye doctor
                                    Agreed.

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                                    • jimmyf
                                      OU812
                                      • Feb 2001
                                      • 12651

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by DjSap
                                      It's just a matter of time before mainstream venture capitalists start investing in this business seriously, or they maybe already are doing that in the US?
                                      You got this right on I also think. AT&T is one of the top 3 porn providers right now in the USA. Go talk with someone at a Video Rental store sometimes, if they are honest they will tell you, that the store makes it's money renting porn and would'nt be open if not for porn. I was talking with my main sponsor the other day, he told me there use 2 be like 15 players in his business, 5 big 1's. Now it's like 40 and 15 big 1's, were did they come from and almost over night?
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                                      • Que?
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Aug 2002
                                        • 340

                                        #20
                                        I see several quality photo producers(paysites) using their stuff for crap site reselling.

                                        It seems there is still more money in a heavy pay per signup programs, than promoting their own quality sites, like teensfix and scoreland.

                                        And when it comes to nastydollars and oxcash i think their gig is somewhat narrow concerning stile and creativity. Same old, streetgirls and models. They can go out of fashion in notime.

                                        Sure exclusive quality stuffwill do nicely. Especially since the thumbed tgp's are better than most mainstream, nonexclusive sites already...
                                        Last edited by Que?; 12-26-2002, 07:15 AM.
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                                        • Pornkings
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Oct 2002
                                          • 5334

                                          #21
                                          We do very well giving DVD's away for free and just charging for shipping
                                          http://www.freenastysexmovies.com/
                                          Pornkings.com

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                                          • Mutt
                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                            • Sep 2002
                                            • 34431

                                            #22
                                            how does that work? even the shittiest compilation tapes wholesale for i would guess 4 or 5 dollars. Is the information somebody fills out to get a free video worth that much?
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                                            • Mutt
                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                              • Sep 2002
                                              • 34431

                                              #23
                                              well Wanker hooray for you, you've met one of the big Internet boys, Mr. BlacksonBlondes.

                                              As somebody who is paid by a video studio what do you think of the way he made his millions?

                                              Please go ask Anabolic's owner if I can go screencap and digitize their entire library.
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                                              • UnseenWorld
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • May 2001
                                                • 5279

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Fletch XXX


                                                I personally dig the exclusive and original.


                                                Perhaps the video industry is the opposite of the porn industry in another respect: It's more oriented toward a star system. Whereas surfers always want to see new girls, and while this also happens in video, the video renter/purchaser can like a girl and want to see her in new scenarios more than a surfer.
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                                                • UnseenWorld
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • May 2001
                                                  • 5279

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Fletch XXX
                                                  But then again, big hardcore movies on screen, standard cum swapping is good too. The more blondes the better,...but I like goth girls too and love redheads.

                                                  Quality is what counts I think, as long as you catch the surfers attention and get the wallet out, the rest doesnt really matter.
                                                  If it gives a guy a boner, he's hooked. Write that down...
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                                                  • UnseenWorld
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • May 2001
                                                    • 5279

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by charly
                                                    Good article with some very good points. But it mised on a couple of things.

                                                    The problem for some websites with "Exclusive" is how to pay for it and how to recognise the difference between good and crap regular content.

                                                    We have many clients for our custom work, all seem happy with what we do and can't get enough. We also have now built up a list of buyers who buy from us on a very regular basis.

                                                    But we get lots of people approach us to buy "Exclusive" or want a deal. They are more interested in the price than the product and some do not even know the difference form good or bad and just quote what another site will sell for. An exclusives or cheap dogs turd still stinks.

                                                    We cannot and do not want to shoot an exclusive set for $200 or less. Why? One it cannot be done properly and be profitable, two when the set is released it only has to sell 6 times to bring in $210 so why sell it for less?

                                                    The opinion that magazines are dead was very wrong, the magazine industry did suffer a few years ago and this can be put down to the Internet. But now sales are climbing back up. Don't know about videos but would imagine it's the same.

                                                    The guy who wants K-Mart pricing on content will get K-Mart content.

                                                    Of course, in the "reality" video area, sometimes it is the crappiness of the video that sells it. It seems like something a guy did with a cheap camcorder and mostly ambient lighting.

                                                    College Fuck Fest sells because it feels like someone took a camera to a frat party and caught all these people getting drunk, and having uninhibited sex on any available piece of furniture.

                                                    However, just from the legalities involved, I know that that didn't happen. The performers were probably brought in by the producers with a full understanding of what they'd do, everyone with a recognizable face has had to sign a release, etc.

                                                    Perhaps a few coeds were paid a small amount to flash their titties and few others paid to stand around and look stupid (probably not taxing their acting abilities too much), but if some couple did fuck on a couch in the frat house living area, I doubt if they'd be signing any releases, and a frat house is not a public place, so the producers would not have that excuse.

                                                    I'd like to know the details of how something like that is produced, but I'd be surprised if it was done without careful detail to the legalities.
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                                                    • UnseenWorld
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • May 2001
                                                      • 5279

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by quiet
                                                      from lukeford.com:

                                                      Suppose a company sells 100 DVD's a day. Trust me, I wouldn't be surprised if the Nasty Dollars group are nailing this amount right now. And their hitting them at retail prices. No net terms, no catalog pricing, no bullshit.

                                                      And what does the referring webmaster get from such sales? Time to start asking that question, perhaps.
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                                                      • Mutt
                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                        • Sep 2002
                                                        • 34431

                                                        #28
                                                        they have a right to sell their DVD's without cutting their affiliate anything, the same way you send traffic to a program and they keep the exit console money and all the upsells from inside the members area plus cross-sells on the join form.

                                                        it's up to webmasters to decide if the payout that they are getting credit for is enough and whether the program can convert their traffic.
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                                                        • jimmyD
                                                          Registered User
                                                          • Dec 2002
                                                          • 14

                                                          #29
                                                          posted by Wanker W: ...the porn companies will start squirming, clinging to the past while the big Internet boys profit off their sites and go full circle into the DVD market.
                                                          I still wouldn't count some of these guys out. True, they're going to have to change... to evolve... and they will--some of them will. What would happen to some of these content guys if even a medium size company suddenly decided to put a hundred thousand clips and caps up for sale at cut-throat prices? Some are already here--VCA owns Babenet.

                                                          ps: where we goin for the oysters? I'm thinking the seafood buffet at the Rio. The oysters are fresh and we can eat them till we puke.

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                                                          • Mutt
                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                            • Sep 2002
                                                            • 34431

                                                            #30
                                                            Hustler is tearing up the video business now.

                                                            I took a look at the new Hustler content feeds and it's high quality porn they do.........but i really don't understand the popularity. Seemed to me that a lot of the movies they do have some dubbing from other languages, Czech/Hungarian. I hate that in a porn video.

                                                            It's all very slickly produced stuff, very different from the Bangbus, MilfHunter, Exploited Teens, BrunoB, CFF, HerFirstGangBang, Homegrown video content which surfers are saying is what they want.
                                                            I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

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                                                            • Mutt
                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                              • 34431

                                                              #31
                                                              Babenet


                                                              I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

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                                                              • UnseenWorld
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • May 2001
                                                                • 5279

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by Mutt
                                                                Hustler is tearing up the video business now.

                                                                I took a look at the new Hustler content feeds and it's high quality porn they do.........but i really don't understand the popularity. Seemed to me that a lot of the movies they do have some dubbing from other languages, Czech/Hungarian. I hate that in a porn video.

                                                                It's all very slickly produced stuff, very different from the Bangbus, MilfHunter, Exploited Teens, BrunoB, CFF, HerFirstGangBang, Homegrown video content which surfers are saying is what they want.
                                                                Surfers, like voters, don't speak with one voice. The Barely Legal series of videos, despite the very high production values, don't cost them very much to produce and sell in the millions. The profit margins on those things are astronomical. I know for a fact that many of the female actors make only a few hundred dollars for their work and I'm sure the males are paid a token amount at best. But even if a video cost Hustler $50K to produce (and I'm pretty sure they cost less), when the video is going to sell 2M copies worldwide, they could afford to spend a hundred times that much if they had to.

                                                                The guy who likes a well-lit video with a drop-dead gorgeous 18 year old girl taking it up the ass (with plenty of close-up action) is not the same guy who is into Bang Bus or College Fuck Fest. Interestingly, there is an in-between market that seems to be doing rather well: Captain Stabbin, for example. Those vids seem well produced (from the online samples anyway) and yet have that "reality" feel similar to College Fuck Fest. Other in-betweeners are Mike's Apartment, Cum Fiesta, and MILF Hunter (and I bet getting actresses for MILF Hunter has to be easy as pie: for a middle aged woman to be asked to perform sexually for the camera has to be an ego booster).
                                                                Last edited by UnseenWorld; 12-26-2002, 10:13 AM.
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                                                                • Mutt
                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                  • Sep 2002
                                                                  • 34431

                                                                  #33
                                                                  when the video is going to sell 2M copies worldwide
                                                                  *********************************************

                                                                  Girls aren't paid all that great in the adult video biz. Lotta behind the scenes stuff goes on to deliver girls to certain producers, studios. Agents etc............. i only get this stuff third hand from various sources so i don't know the whole story on it.

                                                                  What I do know is that these same girls get paid very well when they shoot for Wanton Girls. But Internet photographers are at the very bottom of the porn biz food chain. Nobody cuts them any deals on talent, Net photographers wind up paying more cuz for the most part they aren't part of the 'club'.
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                                                                  • UnseenWorld
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • May 2001
                                                                    • 5279

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Mutt
                                                                    when the video is going to sell 2M copies worldwide
                                                                    *********************************************

                                                                    Girls aren't paid all that great in the adult video biz. Lotta behind the scenes stuff goes on to deliver girls to certain producers, studios. Agents etc............. i only get this stuff third hand from various sources so i don't know the whole story on it.

                                                                    What I do know is that these same girls get paid very well when they shoot for Wanton Girls. But Internet photographers are at the very bottom of the porn biz food chain. Nobody cuts them any deals on talent, Net photographers wind up paying more cuz for the most part they aren't part of the 'club'.
                                                                    Well, excuse me, but I only pay $150 for a 2-2.5 hour session. How much cheaper could these other guys be getting their girls? Or maybe I'm just benefitting from not working in California.
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                                                                    • Mutt
                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                      • 34431

                                                                      #35
                                                                      oops.....forgot the reason i replied to your post.

                                                                      CFF is good, i can't watch it because my tolerance for 'wiggers' is very low. When a white kid from the burbs says 'where's da pawdee' and starts to rap I'm gone. Find your own voice, the blacks did, can't be that hard.

                                                                      Unseen, do you know how many units of a top selling adult DVD/VHS title are sold?

                                                                      You're very far off. way off. 2 million? Barely Legal is a great line but even with Hustler's muscle it doesn't sell any more than 10,000 ......and i might be over estimating. What do u think Jimmy?

                                                                      5,000 sold is very good in that industry these days so i just doubled it for Barely Legal.
                                                                      I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

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                                                                      • Shaggy
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Jan 2002
                                                                        • 570

                                                                        #36
                                                                        exclusive = over rated

                                                                        quality = under rated

                                                                        original = under rated

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                                                                        • Mutt
                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                          • Sep 2002
                                                                          • 34431

                                                                          #37
                                                                          You are definitely benefitting from not being in Los Angeles.

                                                                          You'd be beating your head against the wall. Many agents don't even want to talk to Net photographers. I posted about one of them on LukeFord.com a couple of weeks ago.

                                                                          Going behind an agency's back and trying to book girls that way can backfire on you so I have been forbidden from doing that.

                                                                          L.A. is all about the video business not still photography. The more people you know helps you out. Even if a girl refers a friend to us if she's connected to an agency we pay the agency.

                                                                          I'm the one who doesn't want to do this, agents do shit, but i do what i'm told when i don't really have the full picture on how biz is done out there.
                                                                          I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

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                                                                          • Wanker_W
                                                                            Registered User
                                                                            • Dec 2002
                                                                            • 4

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Yes, College Fuckfest is a load of crap but it is interestingly edited. Why? Because anybody in porn can recognize every single girl in their library. They shoot most of their content at Cal State Northridge. Daisy Dukes shot hers at USC.

                                                                            As for meeting Cable, maybe I forgot to add something here. Do you think something might've happened at the meeting and subsequent communications which resulted in a sudden disappearance of a certain production company's material and perhaps more? At the time, I certainly didn't meet Cable to say hi. I was serious about playing fire with fire with him and he came to the table.

                                                                            P.S. Mutt, video stores can easily get shitty comps for $2 easy and price them out at $9.99 - $16.99 for FOUR HOURS ARE HARDCORE SEX!!!
                                                                            Last edited by Wanker_W; 12-26-2002, 11:17 AM.
                                                                            I am not human. I am ROTO.

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                                                                            • Mutt
                                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                              • Sep 2002
                                                                              • 34431

                                                                              #39
                                                                              $2? i didn't check out what titles that store Roger posted that was giving away for their free vids. VideoAge has done the same for a long time with the compilation videos. I guess $2 is worth it to have a person's email address AND a legitimate postal address.

                                                                              Anabolic and Diabolic get ripped off probably more than any studios going now. Redlight as well.

                                                                              Why is this? Because the guys who do the ripping off are porn movie aficianados themselves and they rip off what they think are the best DVD's.

                                                                              You don't see much Vivid or Wicked product in Adult Bouncer or Deluxe Pass - shit doesn't interest the guys who rip the DVD's and run the sites and movie forums.

                                                                              I didn't know the movie forum thing was as big as it is. Looks like when Bianca shut down for good it opened up things for a brand new generation of cockholsters.
                                                                              I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

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                                                                              • Mutt
                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                • Sep 2002
                                                                                • 34431

                                                                                #40
                                                                                i think College FuckFest is great, most innovative paysite since BangBus. I'm just too old for it, it's great for the under 30 crowd. I know there are people out there who want to clone it but that isn't going to be easy.

                                                                                Is there a notice on CFF for guys who want to invite them to come to their frat parties? I think there are probably lots of guys who would love to have these guys come to their town.

                                                                                I have a question tho - who was first here - Shane's World or CFF? Who gets credit for the idea of shooting college campus fuckfests?

                                                                                I know the female talent is all Porn Valley pro girls but what about the guys? Amateurs or also pros?
                                                                                I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

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                                                                                • UnseenWorld
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • May 2001
                                                                                  • 5279

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by Mutt
                                                                                  Unseen, do you know how many units of a top selling adult DVD/VHS title are sold?

                                                                                  You're very far off. way off. 2 million? Barely Legal is a great line but even with Hustler's muscle it doesn't sell any more than 10,000 ......and i might be over estimating. What do u think Jimmy?
                                                                                  You're probably right. I really don't know all the details about how the rental industry works. Anybody here know this?: Does a rental store have to pay a usage fee to the mfr every time they rent a video or DVD, or is the right to rent to eternity included in the original purchase price? I read somewhere that rental stores might pay Hustler's distributor $18 for the original tape. That's $180.

                                                                                  I think in the future, companies like Hustler will move to DVD and sell largely direct, in which case if they get $29.95 for a DVD of Barely Legal #52, and sell it to 10,000 customers, they'll make $3M. Not bad. Of course, they'll probably have distribution channels, too, and maybe 1/2 of those 10,000 will be sold via 50/50 partnerships (or more likely 40/60 or 33/67, since they'll have to bear the shipping/handling costs, and their product is in demand enough to give them the bargaining muscle), so maybe they'll make closer to $2M, but they crank out tapes the way a rabbit shits, so they'll be rakin' in plenty of dought, I'm sure.
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                                                                                  • UnseenWorld
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • May 2001
                                                                                    • 5279

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    I did raise a point earlier I think webmasters should be concerned with, and that is getting a share of ALL sales a company gets if you refer them the customer. A guy I know owns a major website/ezine, and he makes his big money on DVD sales. His membership site and ezine actually function to upsell the DVD's, and he doesn't depend much on memberships for money. But I don't know if his program is set up to reimburse referring webmasters for DVD sales in addition to the initial/recurring on the memberships. (And I want to keep a friend, so I'm not going to ask or even look.)
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                                                                                    • UnseenWorld
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • May 2001
                                                                                      • 5279

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by Mutt
                                                                                      oops.....forgot the reason i replied to your post.

                                                                                      CFF is good, i can't watch it because my tolerance for 'wiggers' is very low. When a white kid from the burbs says 'where's da pawdee' and starts to rap I'm gone. Find your own voice, the blacks did, can't be that hard.

                                                                                      White boys acting black are hilarious. When some kid comes up and says, "Yo, dude, watom is it?" (="Say, fella, what time is it?"), it's all I can do to keep from bursting out and laughing. And when they're dressed the part, with trousers below their butts and baseball caps on sideways or backwards and FUBU this and that, the effect is just pathetic (but funny at the same time).
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                                                                                      • Mutt
                                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                        • Sep 2002
                                                                                        • 34431

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        video rental stores, porn and mainstream, don't pay any royalties, they wanted to but it just wasn't feasible when the home VCR made its debut. So Hollywood decided on a fairly expensive selling price to rental stores, each copy of a title was about 100 bucks. Many still are. But then Hollywood decided that they'd also like to sell these videos right to the consumer, so ET was released for 15 bucks. It's a mix now, some movies are priced to sell to the consumers, mostly blockbuster films and stuff for kids, the rest are still pretty expensive. DVD's now are taking over so i think those days are about over.

                                                                                        The biggest profit center in a video rental store is the 'adult room'.
                                                                                        Stores pay between $5 bucks for shitty compilation tapes up to maybe $20 for higher end titles like Hustler. Problem for the companies who make the movies is that the distributors aren't very professional, they take a long time to return the money owed to the producers, and as Wanker or Jimmy said........seems to always come up short of what was actually sold.
                                                                                        But if they don't use the few big distribution companies they're really fucked, gotta have some way to get your product out there.

                                                                                        You are right though, the future for these porn studios is cutting out that middleman distributor, sell direct to surfers and retailers.........the Internet is making that possible now.
                                                                                        I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

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                                                                                        • DrunkenMaster
                                                                                          Registered User
                                                                                          • Nov 2002
                                                                                          • 71

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Internet porn is much easier to get, there are lots of youngsters who don't like going into a shop to buy a porn magazine i think...and internet is much bigger
                                                                                          http://www.surfrace.nl/signup.php?r=11955

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                                                                                          • JohnIP
                                                                                            Registered User
                                                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                                                            • 30

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Ya know some of you that come from the main stream porn side still don?t get it and I dare say never will;)

                                                                                            The MAJOR difference between internet guys and Porn valley guys is that its two completely different mentalities and different ends of a business. One is Production and the other..The internet piece is ALL about MARKETING and Distribution ? where do you think the biggest profit margins are,the LATTER of course.

                                                                                            Over the past few years we have seen these "Main Stream" companies, production compnies, attempt to work and buy their way into getting market share in the online distribution marketing end and most of them do it HORRIBLY! The only ones that have REALLY succeeded are the companies smart enough in ailing themselves with leaders with proven track records on the internet...And lets burry this "geek" thing forever in this thread. The men and women that run the top 20 Internet Porn companies are either marketing genuses or have vast experience in a main stream corporate environment and have applied it to the internet.Lets not confuse a portion of a companies sales affiliates with the people that actually run the company.

                                                                                            So whets next..The companies that have mastered marketing and distribution online NOW want to enter the production Biz.They see the flaws in THAT distribution system and the relative low cost of entry into production, plus fully realize the future of distribution in general and want to use their talents to direct market their own stuff.

                                                                                            You really think the little video store guy is gonna be the purveyor of where the preponderance of video porn distribution will come from in 5 years..HELLO.It will be on the net and on cable over the TV.Theres no stopping that and no turnin back.

                                                                                            Problem for main stream is that they keep missing the ring..they keep thinking that internet has to "evolve" more for them to enter the market, invest more $$ make CRITIAL Alliances... they think they can just buy there way in ..Well see. BTW how deep are main streams pockets really.Playboy makes a messily profit each year..Penthouse is in trouble...Noof profit is WAY down.Id say look to the internet guys for the deep pockets.;)
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                                                                                            • Shoplifter
                                                                                              Richest man in Babylon
                                                                                              • Jan 2002
                                                                                              • 5874

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              For a taste of the future check out Paradise TV from Japan.
                                                                                              I Like Blondes

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                                                                                              • UnseenWorld
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • May 2001
                                                                                                • 5279

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by Shoplifter
                                                                                                For a taste of the future check out Paradise TV from Japan.
                                                                                                Not much to see at http://www.paradisetv.jp if yoiu don't understand Japanese. Want to tell us about it instead?
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                                                                                                • Mutt
                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                  • Sep 2002
                                                                                                  • 34431

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  getting up on a satellite and onto cable system is the next step for Net companies. That ain't an easy thing to do. So i figure NooF will eventually be bought by a Net company with deep pockets.
                                                                                                  I don't know why Vivid sold its channels to Playboy cuz i think those channels were a goldmine ........ and it's been proven they are, Playboy is being kept afloat by those channels.
                                                                                                  It was a great buy for them. Vivid got paid ok i guess but it seems short sighted to me for them to have let those channels go. I'm sure part of the deal though guaranteed them access to those channels for a long time, whatever Vivid produces gets on those channels.

                                                                                                  and you're right..........the Net companies because they are more clear minded, less drugs, don't really care about getting laid by porn chicks, come from marketing backgrounds, will take over the bricks and mortar video production and distribution biz in time.

                                                                                                  I read on one of the porn new sites that when Ox and Nasty come to L.A. to shoot the talent wants to work with them because they paid the talent better than the video porn studios do.
                                                                                                  I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

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                                                                                                  • Jayson
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Oct 2001
                                                                                                    • 554

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by UnseenWorld


                                                                                                    I think in the future, companies like Hustler will move to DVD and sell largely direct, in which case if they get $29.95 for a DVD of Barely Legal #52, and sell it to 10,000 customers, they'll make $3M.
                                                                                                    Firstly, 10,000 x $29.95 is $300,000 not $3M.

                                                                                                    Last I read, Hustler was selling between 10,000 and 12,000 copies of a video at an average price to them of $12.

                                                                                                    So thats about $120,000-$145,000 with a production cost of $40,000 to $50,000.

                                                                                                    Not that great a profit margin.

                                                                                                    Especially when you consider the production cost to billings of some of the internet video guys.
                                                                                                    Sapphic Cash - We Do It Right

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