MGM going broke

go after the leacher without fair use rights.

The copyright/anti-piracy/anti-theft laws have to catch up with the technology.

Anyone that has ever created content knows exactly what I am speaking about...

ADG

If you understood even the basics of statistics you'd understand you don't need a HUGE sample to get accurate stats. For example a CNN exit poll of 18,000 voters in the 2008 election showed that 53% of the people responding voted for Obama. Overall Obama won 53% of the vote. Hmmm. Funny how just 18,000 votes exactly predicted the results of 125 million votes. That's 1/7 of 1%

I have said all along to everyone I know, if you like a TV show, watch it. Watch it when it is on. Don't Tivo it, don't download it, watch it.

That's a load of crap and you know it. Recording a TV on your DVR is TOTALLY different than sharing it on a torrent site. Your "right" to time shift doesn't give you a right to share that content. By the way ther are 2 great site to watch Heroes online LEGALLY they are called Hulu.com and NBC.com. If you want a copy to keep and you don't have a DVR or whatever then you pay purchase a comercial free digital copy from many places including amazon, itunes, XBL and PSN for $2, $3 for HD. Or you can go to wally world and buy the DVD of the whole season.

ZERO excuse to go to a torrent site.

And how exactly are we supposed to go after that leacher if his IP address is the only proof we have to show in court? He can always say "my dog did it not me" and get away with it.

bullshit

fair use is a law granted right too, free speech also apply to things like parodies and commentaries. the copyright act never intended to make copyright exclusive rights to be an absolute monopoly, it was and has always been a conditional monopoly., those sites serve both the legitimate purpose (fair use) and the illegitimate purpose at the same time.

Going after the people who don't have a fair use right only fair solution.
Reclasifying the entire site as "allow(ing) people to steal coprighted material" just because some people use the site in that way is just plain bullshit.



name one torrent site that explictly says on their terms and conditions that they are there to steal copyright material

show me one torrent site where you have the ability to tell torrent site that you are putting up the torrent specifically to steal

You can't

your rationalizing your justification to keep a false analog.

Your analog justifies going after the murder who uses the gun to kill someone which is exactly what i am advocating when i keep saying
leave the seeder alone
leave the tracker alone
leave the leacher with fair use right alone
go after the leacher without fair use rights.

and trying to justify going after the tracker (walmart) by creating a situation which has no bases in reality at all.




50% of all torrent traffic is tv shows,

timeshifting is a right that was established some 24 years ago.

most of the movies on trackers are older aired on tv movies (again covered by timeshifting)

every seeder (50% of the transactions) can argue based on the technical specs that they are creating a back up

when i download heroes from the torrent sites i am timeshifing the show from monday to tuesday

when i seed dr who blink i do so with the intent of being able to get it back when i want to watch that episode again (backup and recovery)

add it content covered by piracy tax and authorized by the intrinsic conditions of a binding contract (offer acceptance and consideration) and a majority of torrents traffic are taking content they have a right to take.

The only way you can make the arguement is to ignore the fair use as a technicality that people are hiding behind.

Which by it very nature eliminates the legitimate use of the technology. IT denies me the ability to use torrents as the perfect pvr (infinite storage, never misses a show, never cut out becuase of power outages, always available).


you keep pointing to sites and argue that the vocal few represent the majority, bullshit
many people are just like me, using the torrents for what they should be used as timeshifting/back up and recovery.

Who don't take a single file that they have not bought a right too.

i don't condone either mistaken opinion

I have always said that I don't care if people download TV shows, just understand that if you do download a TV show and it get canceled, you can't complain. If you like the show, watch it and support it.

This will be my final reply to all of this, clearly we aren't going to change each other's minds.

Here is your proof.

go tohttp://www.mininova.org/ and select movies (http://www.mininova.org/cat-list/4 is the url) Sort by number of leechers.

In the top 25 results every movie listed there is either still only available in theaters or it is out of theaters and not yet on DVD. The top movie on the list, 2012, just opened this weekend. That means that every one of the 80,000+ leechers is breaking the law. Every one of them is illegally downloading the movie. All the owner of the site has to do is look at this page and know that his site is being used for illegal activity. If someone uploads that torrent to the site they know they are doing so illegally.

Do you really think that somehow these 80,000 people have gotten an option to early purchase a copy of this movie on DVD and are just backing it up?

hire a good lawyer
subpoena his computer
actually find your file on his machine

pay the fine if you don't for the privacy violation (assuming you go after a canadian or any other country with good privacy laws)


repeat until you find an actual infringer

hire a good lawyer
subpoena his computer
actually find your file on his machine

pay the fine if you don't for the privacy violation (assuming you go after a canadian or any other country with good privacy laws)


repeat until you find an actual infringer

and let not forget some countries have piracy taxes for all media not just music so for those countries that download is not a violation but simple a contractually paid for distribution. (offer acceptance and consideration)

And of course when the RIAA actually follows your advice, gets a lawyer and goes after a downloader you scream bloody murder.

We have been through all of this before. There are always exceptions to the rule. Many people argue that Dane Cook got huge because he was able to use Myspace as a way to get a ton of fans and he was able to turn those fans into people who bought his album and went to see him live. Tila Tequlia is another example of someone who made a lot of money just using Myspace and an online presence and it led to bigger things for her.

But when you remove the few exceptions most of these people are nothing more than glorified garage bands. I don't mean that in a bad way. There are small lesser known acts that I really like. There are bands that only put out 1 or 2 albums and never made it big, but I still love those albums. There are small underground acts that I really enjoy and yet they have never gotten big and most likely never will. This type of thing existed long before the internet.

What it comes down to is your ability to monetize your success while you have it. The half life of a band is about 5 years. Chances are if you haven't made it in 5 years, you won't. If you have made it, the odds of your success lasting more than 5 years is very limited. Times change, musical trends change and tastes and fads come and go. A few survive and most don't. It was that way before the internet, it is still that way wth the internet. If you go to a band and you tell them, "You can sign with a major label and they will ass rape you and you will never see a dime from record sales beyond your initial advance, but they will put a ton of money behind your publicity, you will have a couple of top 10 singles, work your ass off and within in year you will be headlining 3000-5000 seat venues and making millions on the road, or you can release the music yourself online, give it away for free and what you do sell you get to keep 90% of the profits from and in a few years you will still be playing clubs for 150-200 people and still holding a part time job when you aren't touring." Which do you think they would take?

I'm not saying the music labels are the be all end all. I'm not saying they have the best taste. I'm simply saying that when the music business becomes a free business where everyone releases their stuff for free and they hope to make money down the road touring, selling merchandise or whatever you are going to see a huge influx of people flooding the market with their stuff, and most of it is going to be garbage. There will be no filter and the consumer/fans will be left to sift through it on their own. Sure there will be magazines and web sites that will review it and help you find stuff you like, but most music buyers don't work that way. Most music buyers hear it on the radio and go buy it or download it. They don't have the interest in reading or researching stuff. Like always, there are exceptions to that rule and you and I are among those exceptions. But here is food for thought. Of the ten people that I consider to be close friends I am the only one who reads any kind of music magazines or websites. I am the only one of them that researches music and tries new stuff. The other nine all either hear it on the radio and buy it/download it or they just listen to something they already have. when I ask them why they don't look for something new that they might be into almost without fail they tell me it is because they have better things to do. Music, sadly, is an art of convenience and record labels help to facilitate that convenience for those who want it.

I have always said that I don't care if people download TV shows, just understand that if you do download a TV show and it get canceled, you can't complain. If you like the show, watch it and support it.

As I asked you yesterday, how do you think the TV networks will know if you watched a show if you aren't one of a handful of Neilson homes exactly?

Lol that kind of non-enforceable copyright laws is exactly what we need, so you worthless dumb motherfucking leeches who cannot create anything original could keep on running your godawful torrent sites stealing other people's work and yet having an excuse "we're covered go after the bad leecher".

Not going to happen. Sooner or later you'll get what you deserve and go back to flipping burgers, the only thing you're good for.

So it is ok for the copyright owner to have to jump through a bunch of hoops and go to a great expense to protect his rights, but it isn't okay for a site owner to have to jump through hoops and make sure they have permission to post the torrents to copyrighted material.

Sounds like a double standard to me.

And of course when the RIAA actually follows your advice, gets a lawyer and goes after a downloader you scream bloody murder.

Well NBC has thing called NBC Direct which actually allows you to download episodes onto your PC for later viewing even offline. Obviously you can only watch the videos for a limited time. I believe it's 30 days for most shows. But let's face it that's plenty of time to watch it. So why wouldn't you just download a NBC show from NBC.com, that way they WOULD know exactly how popular a show is? I know the reason. The reason is because with a torrent you get to keep the copy forever and it's free. Because let's face it $2( $3 for HD ) is sooooo much money to spend. The fact is this isn't a few years ago. There are PLENTY of LEGAL and FREE ways to catch up on a missed episode of a show without having to use a torrent. The differnce as I said you don't get to KEEP the episode. And face it if you like the episode that much that you just have to have it, guess what, it's worth the $2-$3 then.

As I asked you yesterday, how do you think the TV networks will know if you watched a show if you aren't one of a handful of Neilson homes exactly?

Then use htaccess or something like it block access to your site that doesn't have piracy tax or access shifting.

Of course you can avoid the entire set of hoops by simply giving people the life time timeshifting/backup recover rights (ie set up a private tracker).

Yeah and of course all of the thieving sites will suddenly stop posting our content because we have that private tracker. And of course all of them bad leechers will "honorably" stop downloading our videos because we fulfilled our obligations under the copyright law.

Sure that's what is going to happen, because all of you monthefucking thieves are doing it only because you want to provide your users with what's rightfully theirs, timeshifting whatever. Not because you want to profit from other people's work, you're only doing it for principle. As soos as we have a private tracker, all links to our videos on thieving sites will magically dissappear. What a fucking great plan.

2. slow the download speeds to a crawl for the illegal torrents

Well NBC has thing called NBC Direct. SNIP pointless straw man argument AGAIN

I have said all along to everyone I know, if you like a TV show, watch it. Watch it when it is on. Don't Tivo it, don't download it, watch it.

As I asked you yesterday, how do you think the TV networks will know if you watched a show if you aren't one of a handful of Neilson homes exactly?

if you do it right you

1. create a liability that is outside the scope of the fair use defence (and therefore outside the scope of safe harbor)
2. slow the download speeds to a crawl for the illegal torrents

so yes for the most part it will stop the illegal downloads

their may be leachers who are willing to wait months or years to get a file but for the most part not really.

just because your to stupid to understand the way torrents work, and how a private tracker is really a solution does mean it won't work

it just means your to stupid to know how to make it work.

If people don't watch and support the shows they like, they will go away.

Are you actually mentally ill?

That just isn't true. Your understanding of how ratings work is wrong, at best. But carry on telling people to watch Entourage live if you like. If you want to learn how it works: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question433.htm

Sorry, I didn't see your question yesterday or I would have answered. The way I understand it the Neilson's are one way they collect ratings data, but they also collect data through some cable providers. If you have digital cable and a cable box the cable company and tell from that what you are watching and they relay that information back to networks.

Obviously, they don't know every single person who is watching a show, but from what I understand their methods are pretty accurate.

I know they also now take into consideration those that watch the show on their websites. While those views don't count towards the ratings and the online shows usually have a lot less commercials they can take the number of online views into consideration.

There have been shows that have had terrible ratings (for example one of the shows I am a fan of called Friday Night Lights), but then they find out that the show has a large following on Tivo/DVR and they cut a deal of some sort to keep it around. In the case of Friday Night Lights they sold Direct TV exclusive rights to it. Direct TV airs the shows then when the season is done on Direct TV they air them on regular broadcast TV. Under normal circumstances, and in most cases, the show would have been canceled, but the fans of this show are very passionate and really voiced their support. There have been shows that have had bad ratings, but did get a lot of people recording it and they still canceled it because the networks are not in the good show business, they are in the advertising delivery business. If people don't watch and support the shows they like, they will go away.

Sorry for the long answer

But how do you know which torrents are illegal. You yourself make the argument that the websites have no idea who has legal rights to download this material and who doesn't and you don't want them to be forced to have any responsibility in determining that so how can they determine if a torrent is illegal?

Wow what an almighty good ole me, stop download speeds at TPB, isohunt and thousand of others that have gazillions of users connected through gazillion channels. That is so within my scoop of capabilities.

and if you want another example of the screw job of the music industry
lady gaga poker face played over a million times she got a whopping $167
after the record company takes their cut

an independent artist with no record company gets $0.03 per play.

so if they have the same success they earn $30,000 and if they wanted to make the same money they would only have to be 0.6% as successful.

http://torrentfreak.com/spotify-isnt...ls-are-091123/