Credit Card Industry May Cut $2 trillion In Credit Lines

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  • BFT3K
    Too lazy to set a custom title
    • Dec 2005
    • 10764

    #1

    Credit Card Industry May Cut $2 trillion In Credit Lines

    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...4B01HI20081201

    (Reuters) - The U.S. credit-card industry may pull back well over $2 trillion of lines over the next 18 months due to risk aversion and regulatory changes, leading to sharp declines in consumer spending, prominent banking analyst Meredith Whitney said.

    The credit card is the second key source of consumer liquidity, the first being jobs, the Oppenheimer & Co analyst noted.

    "In other words, we expect available consumer liquidity in the form of credit-card lines to decline by 45 percent."

    Bank of America Corp (BAC.N), Citigroup Inc (C.N) and JPMorgan Chase & Co (JPM.N) represent over half of the estimated U.S. card outstandings as of September 30, and each company has discussed reducing card exposure or slowing growth, Whitney said.

    Closing millions of accounts, cutting credit lines and raising interest rates are just some of the moves credit card issuers are using to try to inoculate themselves from a tsunami of expected consumer defaults.

    A consolidated U.S. lending market that is pulling back on credit is also posing a risk to the overall consumer liquidity, Whitney said.

    Mortgages and credit cards are now dominated by five players who are all pulling back liquidity, making reductions in consumer liquidity seem unavoidable, she said.

    "We are now beginning to see evidence of broad-based declines in overall consumer liquidity."

    "Already, we have witnessed the entire mortgage market hit a wall, and we believe it will, for the first time ever, show actual shrinkage over the next few months," she wrote.

    The credit card market will be 18 months behind the mortgage market and will begin to shrink by mid-2010, Whitney said.

    Whitney also expects home prices to continue falling another 20 percent hurt by lower liquidity. They are down 23 percent from their peak, she said.

    "In a country that offers hundreds of cereal and soda pop choices, the banking industry has become one that offers very few choices," Whitney wrote in a note dated November 30.

    She also said credit lines to consumers through home equity and credit cards had been cut back from the second-quarter levels.

    "Pulling credit when job losses are increasing by over 50 percent year-over-year in most key states is a dangerous and unprecedented combination, in our view," the analyst said.

    Most of the solutions to the situation involve government intervention, and all of them require more dilutive capital to existing lenders, she said.

    "Accordingly, we continue to be cautious on our outlook on US banks."

    Continues here...

    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...1?pageNumber=2
  • After Shock Media
    It's coming look busy
    • Mar 2001
    • 35299

    #2
    Odd those very same banks are the ones that I mentioned last week or so about them trying out a new fine for paying off your card each month in full. In essence an annual fee if you do not have credit lines open and getting charged interest.

    [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

    Comment

    • BFT3K
      Too lazy to set a custom title
      • Dec 2005
      • 10764

      #3
      Good times, good times!

      Comment

      • Sly
        Let's do some business!
        • Sep 2004
        • 31379

        #4
        I don't exactly blame them. Their whole business model, right or wrong, is about to change.
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        • camgirlshide
          Confirmed User
          • Jan 2005
          • 1558

          #5
          they better come up with a new business model becaue any time you try to get just the "best" customers and ignore the rest results in getting no customers.
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          Comment

          • rowan
            Too lazy to set a custom title
            • Mar 2002
            • 17393

            #6
            Cue the guys saying "porn is recession free" ... can't sign up if the banks cap your credit limit to your current balance

            This is where the non CC billing guys move in...

            Comment

            • fatfoo
              ICQ:649699063
              • Mar 2003
              • 27763

              #7
              "In other words, we expect available consumer liquidity in the form of credit-card lines to decline by 45 percent."

              Interesting. Thanks for posting, BFT3K.
              Send me an email: [email protected]

              Comment

              • BFT3K
                Too lazy to set a custom title
                • Dec 2005
                • 10764

                #8
                Originally posted by fatfoo
                "In other words, we expect available consumer liquidity in the form of credit-card lines to decline by 45 percent."

                Interesting. Thanks for posting, BFT3K.
                Please don't shoot the messenger!

                Comment

                • glamourmodels
                  Confirmed User
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 2121

                  #9
                  swell...
                  Hot london escorts and international escort directory

                  Comment

                  • glamourmodels
                    Confirmed User
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 2121

                    #10
                    swell...
                    Hot london escorts and international escort directory

                    Comment

                    • BFT3K
                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                      • Dec 2005
                      • 10764

                      #11
                      Originally posted by rowan
                      Cue the guys saying "porn is recession free" ... can't sign up if the banks cap your credit limit to your current balance

                      This is where the non CC billing guys move in...
                      Please list non-credit card based billing options that are NOT fraught with reversals and chargebacks.

                      I've spoken with numerous program owners that don't even offer phone or check billing any longer, based upon all of the fraud and reversals associated with same.

                      I'm all ears if there really is an alternate billing solution that is actually safe, credible, and somewhat stable.

                      Anyone know of such an option?

                      Comment

                      • halfpint
                        GFY's Halfpint
                        • Jun 2007
                        • 15223

                        #12
                        Phone billing that accept adult

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                        • Elli
                          Reach for those stars!
                          • Apr 2003
                          • 17991

                          #13
                          holy smokes, that sounds worse than the unemployment numbers. Telling a nation addicted to debt that it's debts are now being called in? Madness!
                          email: [email protected]

                          Comment

                          • rowan
                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                            • Mar 2002
                            • 17393

                            #14
                            Originally posted by BFT3K
                            Please list non-credit card based billing options that are NOT fraught with reversals and chargebacks.

                            I've spoken with numerous program owners that don't even offer phone or check billing any longer, based upon all of the fraud and reversals associated with same.

                            I'm all ears if there really is an alternate billing solution that is actually safe, credible, and somewhat stable.

                            Anyone know of such an option?
                            I agree that for a merchant cards are definitely the best method of billing, but my point was that you may need to visit other alternatives soon; your CC decline levels will only go up, at some point you'll be losing more in declined CC sales than (generally higher overhead) alternative billing.

                            Comment

                            • BlackCrayon
                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                              • Jun 2003
                              • 19634

                              #15
                              they should offer more options for lower interest rates to more customers. They would probably be more inclinded to pay off more if the interest rate were say 9% rather than 24%.
                              you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

                              Comment

                              • BFT3K
                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                • Dec 2005
                                • 10764

                                #16
                                Originally posted by BlackCrayon
                                they should offer more options for lower interest rates to more customers. They would probably be more inclinded to pay off more if the interest rate were say 9% rather than 24%.
                                Another possibility could be that the banks begin to offer tons of low-limit cards, at high interest rates, with big annual fees. This reduces big risks, and all of the bank fees will cover the write-offs.

                                Once people get desperate enough for credit, it will be the banks that hold all of the cards (pun intended).

                                I don't like that plan, but at least it allows people the option to make online credit card transactions....
                                Last edited by BFT3K; 10-26-2009, 04:07 PM.

                                Comment

                                • MaDalton
                                  I am Amazing Content!
                                  • Feb 2004
                                  • 39861

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by BFT3K
                                  Please list non-credit card based billing options that are NOT fraught with reversals and chargebacks.

                                  I've spoken with numerous program owners that don't even offer phone or check billing any longer, based upon all of the fraud and reversals associated with same.

                                  I'm all ears if there really is an alternate billing solution that is actually safe, credible, and somewhat stable.

                                  Anyone know of such an option?
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                                  Comment

                                  • Sly
                                    Let's do some business!
                                    • Sep 2004
                                    • 31379

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by BlackCrayon
                                    they should offer more options for lower interest rates to more customers. They would probably be more inclinded to pay off more if the interest rate were say 9% rather than 24%.
                                    I don't quite follow you. Why would someone be more willing to quickly pay off their debt at 9% as opposed to 24%?
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                                    • halfpint
                                      GFY's Halfpint
                                      • Jun 2007
                                      • 15223

                                      #19
                                      You should see what some banks are starting to do over here in the UK now This is the first to do this the rest will follow because it means more $$$ for the banks when people do go over drawn

                                      Last month, the bank we now own a huge chunk of, repaid us by writing to its 10 million customers telling them that it was about to make their charges much simpler. With great fanfare it announced it would slash its unauthorised overdraft charges from £35 per transaction to a £5 a day. If you spend beyond your limit you will be better off which is good news.

                                      However, for many other customers, who stick within their overdraft limits, it's a different story. For most customers, the Halfiax has chosen to ditch free overdrafts and replace all its interest charges with a flat fee. If you're within your limit and borrowing up to £2,500 it will cost £1 a day. If your overdraft is more than that it doubles to £2 a day.

                                      Halifax says it's making things simple and conceptually it is, the problem is for some people it's simply going to cost a fortune. Imagine you slip £10 overdrawn without realising it until 20 days later when you get your statement, that'll mean you pay £20 on a £10 overdraft. In fact, for someone £10 overdrawn, £1 a day is equivalent to 36,500% interest per year.

                                      These changes happen on 6 December, and many of the Halifax's customers will pay more.

                                      The full story here

                                      http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/...0/halifax.html

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                                      Comment

                                      • Riffhard
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Jul 2009
                                        • 659

                                        #20
                                        You guys think paypal will ever allow adult subscriptions? They just recently started allowing adult DVD's...
                                        Glad to be here. Glad to be anywhere.

                                        Comment

                                        • halfpint
                                          GFY's Halfpint
                                          • Jun 2007
                                          • 15223

                                          #21
                                          Thinking about the CC problems, do you guys in the US have Debit cards ?

                                          For those who dont know how they work

                                          Its basicaly the same as a CC you use them to buy goods/ memberships online/ in shops ect, the difference is, is they are issued by your bank if you have a current account and you canot use them if you dont have the funds in your bank account to cover the cost of the purchase or if you have not exceeded your over draft limit. If you try and use them without the funds in your bank account they simple decline them before you can buy anything.

                                          These would be far better to use than CC because you dont get chargebacks but unfortunatly you do still get fraudulent or stolen cards

                                          Was just wondring if you have anything like this in the US
                                          Last edited by halfpint; 10-26-2009, 04:50 PM.

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                                          Comment

                                          • MaDalton
                                            I am Amazing Content!
                                            • Feb 2004
                                            • 39861

                                            #22
                                            the basic problem with credit lines, mortgages, car loans and all this shit is that people got told that they can spend more money than they earn. and banks can't live from people who do not spend money
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                                            • CYF
                                              Coupon Guru
                                              • Mar 2009
                                              • 10973

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by halfpint
                                              Thinking about the CC problems, do you guys in the US have Debit cards ?

                                              For those who dont know how they work

                                              Its basicaly the same as a CC you use them to buy goods/ memberships online/ in shops ect, the difference is, is they are issued by your bank if you have a current account and you canot use them if you dont have the funds in your bank account to cover the cost of the purchase or if you have not exceeded your over draft limit. If you try and use them without the funds in your bank account they simple decline them before you can buy anything.

                                              These would be far better to use than CC because you dont get chargebacks but unfortunatly you do still get fraudulent or stolen cards

                                              Was just wondring if you have anything like this in the US
                                              Yes, the US has debit cards. Most of them have the Visa or Mastercard logo.
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                                              • Sly
                                                Let's do some business!
                                                • Sep 2004
                                                • 31379

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by halfpint
                                                Thinking about the CC problems, do you guys in the US have Debit cards ?

                                                For those who dont know how they work

                                                Its basicaly the same as a CC you use them to buy goods/ memberships online/ in shops ect, the difference is, is they are issued by your bank if you have a current account and you canot use them if you dont have the funds in your bank account to cover the cost of the purchase or if you have not exceeded your over draft limit. If you try and use them without the funds in your bank account they simple decline them before you can buy anything.

                                                These would be far better to use than CC because you dont get chargebacks but unfortunatly you do still get fraudulent or stolen cards

                                                Was just wondring if you have anything like this in the US
                                                Yeh, we have debit.
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                                                • halfpint
                                                  GFY's Halfpint
                                                  • Jun 2007
                                                  • 15223

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by CYF
                                                  Yes, the US has debit cards. Most of them have the Visa or Mastercard logo.
                                                  So maybe the way to go for billing is to only accept debit cards or prepaid CC and phone billing solutions

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                                                  Comment

                                                  • Peaches
                                                    Old broad
                                                    • Oct 2002
                                                    • 13933

                                                    #26
                                                    Article is from almost a year ago - a lot of these cuts have already happened.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Sly
                                                      Let's do some business!
                                                      • Sep 2004
                                                      • 31379

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by halfpint
                                                      So maybe the way to go for billing is to only accept debit cards or prepaid CC and phone billing solutions
                                                      Why? If a transaction cannot go through, it is denied, no big deal. Why on earth would you block out the largest group of customers?
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                                                      • d-null
                                                        . . .
                                                        • Apr 2007
                                                        • 13724

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by halfpint
                                                        So maybe the way to go for billing is to only accept debit cards or prepaid CC and phone billing solutions
                                                        prepaid CC are mostly the same as any other credit card, and hopefully Visa and Mastercard keep it that way, a prepaid debit card is different. Merchants should not be allowed to discriminate between prepaid credit cards and normal credit cards.

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                                                        • Relentless
                                                          www.EngineFood.com
                                                          • Aug 2006
                                                          • 5697

                                                          #29
                                                          The real problem is the packaging and resale of commercial paper.

                                                          If you lend someone money at 24% you make a lot of money when they pay you back BUT you are assuming the risk that they may default. So lending money at 10% to someone who pays you back IS a better move than lending money at 24% to someone who defaults. That makes it within the lendors self-interest to carefully loan money to people who can pay it back (based on actual financial documentation).

                                                          However, if I can lend money at 24% and takes all those loans and bundle them up, I can sell that bundle to someone else. It doesn't matter to me if that loan will ever be repaid because I won't be there to collect the debt, I'll have sold it off to another bank who buys bundled debts based on meaningless 'ratings' by financial companies that profit from transactional volume and therefore inflate ratings.

                                                          The reason to evaluate the liklihood that a loan will be repaid gets muted and all that matters is getting as many people as you can to borrow as much as they can for as high a rate as they will accept.

                                                          That's what got the banksin trouble. Now they got their bailout money and want to stop the game of musical chairs that they started - during a moment when the most bankers are seated and the most lenders are left standing up out in the cold.

                                                          The government should REQUIRE lending and threaten to dissolve the board of any bank failing to provide liquidity to debtors who have not defaulted or abused their credit lines.


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                                                          Comment

                                                          • David!
                                                            By the wrath of Agamemnon
                                                            • Apr 2004
                                                            • 6501

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by BFT3K
                                                            Please list non-credit card based billing options that are NOT fraught with reversals and chargebacks.

                                                            I've spoken with numerous program owners that don't even offer phone or check billing any longer, based upon all of the fraud and reversals associated with same.

                                                            I'm all ears if there really is an alternate billing solution that is actually safe, credible, and somewhat stable.

                                                            Anyone know of such an option?

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                                                            There are many ways to work with SMS and phone billing, I am here to go over them with you and find the best way to monetize your existing traffic and maximize your revenues.

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                                                            Comment

                                                            • BFT3K
                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                              • Dec 2005
                                                              • 10764

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by halfpint
                                                              Thinking about the CC problems, do you guys in the US have Debit cards ?

                                                              For those who dont know how they work

                                                              Its basicaly the same as a CC you use them to buy goods/ memberships online/ in shops ect, the difference is, is they are issued by your bank if you have a current account and you canot use them if you dont have the funds in your bank account to cover the cost of the purchase or if you have not exceeded your over draft limit. If you try and use them without the funds in your bank account they simple decline them before you can buy anything.

                                                              These would be far better to use than CC because you dont get chargebacks but unfortunatly you do still get fraudulent or stolen cards

                                                              Was just wondring if you have anything like this in the US
                                                              Unless new safe guards have been put in place, I don't think debit credit cards are used as much online, as the cards are normally directly linked to the surfers bank account. You don't earn any bonus points, your money is instantly taken from your account so you can't float it until next bill. I don't know if the transactions are insured through Visa or MC, and with identity theft up, direct debit cards probably aren't customer's favorite way to pay for porn. Some will use them I guess, which is still better than none.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • HomerSimpson
                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                • Sep 2005
                                                                • 13826

                                                                #32
                                                                I blame tubes
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                                                                • tiger
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Apr 2002
                                                                  • 6986

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Credit card crash is coming for sure.

                                                                  The funny thing is anyone with credit lines at those banks know they started doing this at least 6 months ago.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • psili
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Apr 2003
                                                                    • 5526

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Wells Fargo likes the number 3:

                                                                    Wells Fargo is raising credit card rates 3% by November 30th (I got that fun letter).
                                                                    http://sanfrancisco.bizjournals.com/...5/daily64.html

                                                                    Wells Fargo profits doubled in 3rd quarter (while reporting higher loan losses).
                                                                    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/bu...2regional.html

                                                                    Good times. Good times... if only I shat out money.
                                                                    Your post count means nothing.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Jarmusch
                                                                       
                                                                      • May 2003
                                                                      • 12479

                                                                      #35
                                                                      So people will only be able to buy what they can afford? Shocking!

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • PornMD
                                                                        Mainstream Businessman
                                                                        • Jan 2007
                                                                        • 9291

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Just noticed that article linked to in OP is from Dec '08.
                                                                        Want to crush it in mainstream with Facebook ads? Hit me up.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • BFT3K
                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                          • Dec 2005
                                                                          • 10764

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Peaches
                                                                          Article is from almost a year ago - a lot of these cuts have already happened.
                                                                          I didn't notice the date - thanks for pointing that out.

                                                                          Maybe that explains a lot of what is going on right now.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • MaDalton
                                                                            I am Amazing Content!
                                                                            • Feb 2004
                                                                            • 39861

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by BFT3K
                                                                            I didn't notice the date - thanks for pointing that out.

                                                                            Maybe that explains a lot of what is going on right now.
                                                                            the candidate has 100 points
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                                                                            • LiveDose
                                                                              Show Yer Tits!
                                                                              • Feb 2002
                                                                              • 25792

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Meredith Whitney is always dead on...

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                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • cykoe6
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Apr 2005
                                                                                • 4499

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Since the current financial crisis was caused by an easy credit bubble then it seems like good news that banks will start to rein in the irresponsible lending.
                                                                                бабки, шлюхи, сила

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • DBS.US
                                                                                  Geo Cities
                                                                                  • Aug 2003
                                                                                  • 11842

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  "Mon Dec 1, 2008 4:06pm EST"
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                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Major (Tom)
                                                                                    So Fucking Banned
                                                                                    • Nov 2003
                                                                                    • 32492

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by BFT3K
                                                                                    I didn't notice the date - thanks for pointing that out.

                                                                                    Maybe that explains a lot of what is going on right now.


                                                                                    Someone pls insert GFY timeline pic
                                                                                    Just bustin ya Mr. Strange
                                                                                    Duke

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • L-Pink
                                                                                      working on my tan
                                                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                                                      • 39151

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by fatfoo
                                                                                      "In other words, we expect available consumer liquidity in the form of credit-card lines to decline by 45 percent."

                                                                                      Interesting. Thanks for posting, BFT3K.
                                                                                      cash .........


                                                                                      .

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Iron Fist
                                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                        • Dec 2006
                                                                                        • 23400

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        If PayPal accepted adult... we would all be singing a different tune... that company has a lot of money waiting to be spent.
                                                                                        i like waffles

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Agent 488
                                                                                          Registered User
                                                                                          • Feb 2006
                                                                                          • 22511

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          i found a news article from 1998 you might find interesting.

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • tigermtb
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Nov 2003
                                                                                            • 1062

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Visa makes a ton from transaction fees... don't kid yourself that interest is the only thing they care about
                                                                                            Jay | JuicyAds Founder
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                                                                                            • Barefootsies
                                                                                              Choice is an Illusion
                                                                                              • Feb 2005
                                                                                              • 42635

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              If you offer a quality niche product, to targeted buying consumers they will find a way to buy it. No matter how many cut credit lines, or mailing in money orders, or phone billing.

                                                                                              Should You Email Your Members?

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                                                                                              Enough Said.

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                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Raf1
                                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                • Oct 2003
                                                                                                • 12117

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                I've never liked the idea of credit cards. I have a visa electron that I use where credit cards are required, like carrentals in Spain, but it doesn't go under 0. If I don't have any money in the account, I'm not getting any out
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                                                                                                • BlackCrayon
                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                  • Jun 2003
                                                                                                  • 19634

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Sly
                                                                                                  I don't quite follow you. Why would someone be more willing to quickly pay off their debt at 9% as opposed to 24%?
                                                                                                  Because it feels like more is going to the actual debt rather than just paying off the interest and getting nowhere.
                                                                                                  you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

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                                                                                                  • Snake Doctor
                                                                                                    I'm Lenny2 Bitch
                                                                                                    • Mar 2001
                                                                                                    • 13449

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by rowan
                                                                                                    Cue the guys saying "porn is recession free" ... can't sign up if the banks cap your credit limit to your current balance

                                                                                                    This is where the non CC billing guys move in...
                                                                                                    Meh. Of course porn isn't recession free. The only things that are recession resistant are things people can't live without like food and water and warmth.

                                                                                                    Anyhoo, I don't think this is as big a deal as most people think because I would guess that the majority of our subscriptions come from "credit cards" that are attached to a bank account (a debit card essentially).
                                                                                                    Those cards will go through as long as people have money in their bank accounts.

                                                                                                    What we've lost is customers who were buying with money they didn't have, or didn't have yet, which is the same customers every other business is losing also.
                                                                                                    sig too big

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