NEWS: Hearing on RedTube Suit Set for Tomorrow

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  • crockett
    in a van by the river
    • May 2003
    • 76818
    #101
    Originally posted by gideongallery
    i would think that pointing out that tubes and torrents are next vcr if exploited properly would be enough
    There is a very big difference in VCR's and tubes.. VCR's recorded shows on TV or copied movies for use in your own home. People didn't share their recorded VCR tapes with millions of people around the world and if they tried they got busted for it.

    Tubes are not a storage device for private use..

    and you don't happen to be maddogg now do you? The guy that was making people sign up to porn sites to get access to illegal downloads on his warez sites? Then telling them how to cancel? Wouldn't be you now would it?
    Last edited by crockett; 07-29-2009, 11:38 AM.
    In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

      Comment

      • Pleasurepays
        BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES
        • Aug 2002
        • 11913
        #102
        Originally posted by crockett
        There is a very big difference in VCR's and tubes.. VCR's recorded shows on TV or copied movies for use in your own home. People didn't share their recorded VCR tapes with millions of people around the world and if they tried they got busted for it.

        Tubes are not a storage device for private use..

        and you don't happen to be maddogg now do you? The guy that was making people sign up to porn sites to get access to illegal downloads on his warez sites? Then telling them how to cancel? Wouldn't be you now would it?
        really?

        you haven't learned not to engage that total genius who knows everything about porn marketing but that has never marketed porn?

          Comment

          • Dirty Dane
            Sick Fuck
            • Feb 2004
            • 9491
            #103
            Originally posted by crockett
            btw being it's Brazers whom owns many of these illegal tubes. Why doesn't someone sue them for unfair business practices? I'm sure it could be argued that they are trying to dilute their competitions content by giving it away for free on tubesites, causing their competition harm.
            Originally posted by gideongallery
            my opinion is the exact opposite when you go after a dog of a case and lose you create a legal precedent that your opponents can use against you to further extend their rights.

            This case was about unfair business practice, not the specific content. So the tube site has not "won" the "right" to use stolen content...
            Giving a free content to intentionally harm competitors might actually have the opposite effect. Who wants to marketing a producer or sponsors who endorse or give away all free elsewhere anyway? Redtube + sponsors might be big, but if you sum up all, they do not run the show. What we need, is a list of which producers, sponsors, trades etc. to avoid - and which not to avoid; lets start with teenrevenue which deserves the marketing

              Comment

              • gideongallery
                Confirmed User
                • Aug 2003
                • 7082
                #104
                Originally posted by Dirty Dane
                This case was about unfair business practice, not the specific content. So the tube site has not "won" the "right" to use stolen content...
                Giving a free content to intentionally harm competitors might actually have the opposite effect. Who wants to marketing a producer or sponsors who endorse or give away all free elsewhere anyway? Redtube + sponsors might be big, but if you sum up all, they do not run the show. What we need, is a list of which producers, sponsors, trades etc. to avoid - and which not to avoid; lets start with teenrevenue which deserves the marketing
                but they have gotten the legal precedent that establishes creating a system that allows USERS to upload videos that give away your content for free is not an "unfair business practice"

                i will give you an example
                it means that now if you fully fulfil your customer fair use rights to use torrents as a backup by setting up a private tracker. you would now have to prove that this precedent doesn't apply when attempting to sue for the damages

                you just tripled (if not more) the cost of using this legal procedure.

                “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                  Comment

                  • gideongallery
                    Confirmed User
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 7082
                    #105
                    Originally posted by crockett
                    There is a very big difference in VCR's and tubes.. VCR's recorded shows on TV or copied movies for use in your own home. People didn't share their recorded VCR tapes with millions of people around the world and if they tried they got busted for it.

                    Tubes are not a storage device for private use..
                    you do realize that on july 6th the supreme court upheld the timeshifting in a cloud case.
                    the network effect doesn't invalidate backup rights when you "share" a SMS image for the os and software.

                    if it did microsoft could sue every competing sms server for copyright infringement for their os/office images.



                    and you don't happen to be maddogg now do you? The guy that was making people sign up to porn sites to get access to illegal downloads on his warez sites? Then telling them how to cancel? Wouldn't be you now would it?
                    nope
                    and you made that bogus accusation before (if i remember correctly) when i defended choker for not hiring people to verify content two levels deep like you wanted him too.

                    “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                      Comment

                      • Dirty Dane
                        Sick Fuck
                        • Feb 2004
                        • 9491
                        #106
                        Originally posted by gideongallery
                        but they have gotten the legal precedent that establishes creating a system that allows USERS to upload videos that give away your content for free is not an "unfair business practice"

                        i will give you an example
                        it means that now if you fully fulfil your customer fair use rights to use torrents as a backup by setting up a private tracker. you would now have to prove that this precedent doesn't apply when attempting to sue for the damages

                        you just tripled (if not more) the cost of using this legal procedure.
                        lol.. no you do not know the case, or just make your own conclusions. Copyright issues are already established, but this was a case about the business method and TR sued them for their method - not stolen content. Just like the torrent tracker is not illegal itself, does not automatically mean some specific content is legal to distribute...

                          Comment

                          • Snake Doctor
                            I'm Lenny2 Bitch
                            • Mar 2001
                            • 13449
                            #107
                            I said when this suit was first filed, and I still think I'm right, that it wasn't about winning, because any lawyer worth his hourly rate KNEW that this didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

                            This was just a fuck you to redtube. Redtube was/is for sale, but they can't sell if they have a lawsuit pending. "IF" they could have gotten past the motions to dismiss, they could have dragged this thing out for another 6 months or more, delaying the sale even longer and causing redtube to continue piling up the red ink.

                            This was about a guy with a deep pocket wanting to stick his thumb in someone's eye, that's all.
                            sig too big

                              Comment

                              • gideongallery
                                Confirmed User
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 7082
                                #108
                                Originally posted by Dirty Dane
                                lol.. no you do not know the case, or just make your own conclusions. Copyright issues are already established, but this was a case about the business method and TR sued them for their method - not stolen content. Just like the torrent tracker is not illegal itself, does not automatically mean some specific content is legal to distribute...
                                you can't be that stupid this must be a deliberate bogus claim

                                don't you understand that is the exact point

                                before they went forward with this dog of a case there was no precedent explictly stating that giving away your competitors content for free was NOT unfair business practise

                                now there is

                                so if you were to fight based on the private tracker, fully providing fair use right that i gave you know have to prove that this ruling was only true in the case where safe harbor/fair use applied.

                                That cost money, tripling the cost of a trial. there are cases that backup that arguement, but until a judge explictly takes those cases into account and makes a ruling that is only a legal opinion and teen revenue gave them one more precedent to hide behind.

                                I don't understand why you don't see how patently stupid/bad that is.

                                “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                                  Comment

                                  • Dirty Dane
                                    Sick Fuck
                                    • Feb 2004
                                    • 9491
                                    #109
                                    Originally posted by gideongallery
                                    before they went forward with this dog of a case there was no precedent explictly stating that giving away your competitors content for free was NOT unfair business practise

                                    now there is

                                    so if you were to fight based on the private tracker, fully providing fair use right that i gave you know have to prove that this ruling was only true in the case where safe harbor/fair use applied.
                                    Please...
                                    First, this was not about infringements, DMCA, "fair use" or whatever you are confused about... not the content, but the business METHOD.
                                    Second, if you want to talk about general precedent, you need to refer to a case in court. Dismissed motions is not a "case" you can refer to.

                                      Comment

                                      • gideongallery
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Aug 2003
                                        • 7082
                                        #110
                                        Originally posted by Dirty Dane
                                        Please...
                                        First, this was not about infringements, DMCA, "fair use" or whatever you are confused about... not the content, but the business METHOD.
                                        Second, if you want to talk about general precedent, you need to refer to a case in court. Dismissed motions is not a "case" you can refer to.
                                        so your trying to say that everyone else can keep filing the same bogus claim over and over again with no consequence

                                        That the fact that the judge dismissed the case AND applied anti-slapp provisions doesn't set a precedent.

                                        you are totally clueless about the law.

                                        That cost money, tripling the cost of a trial. there are cases that backup that arguement, but until a judge explictly takes those cases into account and makes a ruling that is only a legal opinion and teen revenue gave them one more precedent to hide behind.
                                        I don't understand why you don't see how patently stupid/bad that is.

                                        “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                                          Comment

                                          • Dirty Dane
                                            Sick Fuck
                                            • Feb 2004
                                            • 9491
                                            #111
                                            Originally posted by gideongallery
                                            so your trying to say that everyone else can keep filing the same bogus claim over and over again with no consequence

                                            That the fact that the judge dismissed the case AND applied anti-slapp provisions doesn't set a precedent.

                                            you are totally clueless about the law.
                                            No, you do not understand what precedent in this context is, because the claims are related to process - not mandatory ruling as you say. Full precedent is about the principles under some local jurisdiction, or under some hiearchy of jurisdiction, referering to a case that actually have been ruled. A judge can't dismiss a case refering to a precendent which have never been set, nor can he deny peoples right to file. If someone file again, they might be dismissed if it is exactly same situation under same jurisdiction, and consequense could be paying the costs, but each claim would probably have other arguments. They know that now, but what lawyers advise you to do, is not the same as precedent as a ruled mandatory principle. In other words, I think you misunderstand everything, because a weak plaintiff is not the same as other stronger arguments can't be used.
                                            Last edited by Dirty Dane; 07-29-2009, 10:11 PM.

                                              Comment

                                              • crockett
                                                in a van by the river
                                                • May 2003
                                                • 76818
                                                #112
                                                Originally posted by gideongallery
                                                you do realize that on july 6th the supreme court upheld the timeshifting in a cloud case.
                                                the network effect doesn't invalidate backup rights when you "share" a SMS image for the os and software.

                                                if it did microsoft could sue every competing sms server for copyright infringement for their os/office images.

                                                Besides that porn sites don't sell you the license to the content like a software company does.. They sell you "ACCESS" to the content. When you stop paying for that access you lose the right to it. Just like if you stop paying the lease on a car, you can't keep it.





                                                nope
                                                and you made that bogus accusation before (if i remember correctly) when i defended choker for not hiring people to verify content two levels deep like you wanted him too.
                                                For "LEGITIMATE" owners of that software. Not every retard on the net whom thinks he can use your BS "time shifting" excuse to steal shit.
                                                Last edited by crockett; 07-29-2009, 11:04 PM.
                                                In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • crockett
                                                    in a van by the river
                                                    • May 2003
                                                    • 76818
                                                    #113
                                                    Besides that, most software companies sell you a license to the software. Porn sites are not selling you a license to the content, they are selling you "access" to the content. When you stop paying the monthly fee you lose your right to access that content.

                                                    Just like if you lease a software or a car, you lose the right to use it once the lease runs out.
                                                    In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • gideongallery
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                        • 7082
                                                        #114
                                                        Originally posted by crockett
                                                        For "LEGITIMATE" owners of that software. Not every retard on the net whom thinks he can use your BS "time shifting" excuse to steal shit.
                                                        and what do you think the 99.5% of the US population who have a tv and there for have been granted access to "lost"(one of the series sued for) are.

                                                        each person in that majority group are doing nothing but using the swarm(cloud) as a vcr.
                                                        Each person has the same right to timeshift as a person who recorded it with a vcr.
                                                        The network effect doesn't take away that right.

                                                        “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                                                          Comment

                                                          • gideongallery
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Aug 2003
                                                            • 7082
                                                            #115
                                                            Originally posted by crockett
                                                            Besides that, most software companies sell you a license to the software. Porn sites are not selling you a license to the content, they are selling you "access" to the content. When you stop paying the monthly fee you lose your right to access that content.

                                                            Just like if you lease a software or a car, you lose the right to use it once the lease runs out.
                                                            i suggest you reread the betamax case
                                                            universal made that exact arguement
                                                            they argueed that they licienced it for access "on a specific day at a specific time"
                                                            the courts ruled that the viewer granted such a licience had a right to move that viewing time to another day and another time and right of timeshifting was born.

                                                            So your trying to claim that you should have a right to use the exact same arguement that has already been ruled to be invalid because your a porn site.


                                                            “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                                                              Comment

                                                              • gideongallery
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Aug 2003
                                                                • 7082
                                                                #116
                                                                Originally posted by Dirty Dane
                                                                No, you do not understand what precedent in this context is, because the claims are related to process - not mandatory ruling as you say. Full precedent is about the principles under some local jurisdiction, or under some hiearchy of jurisdiction, referering to a case that actually have been ruled. A judge can't dismiss a case refering to a precendent which have never been set, nor can he deny peoples right to file. If someone file again, they might be dismissed if it is exactly same situation under same jurisdiction, and consequense could be paying the costs, but each claim would probably have other arguments. They know that now, but what lawyers advise you to do, is not the same as precedent as a ruled mandatory principle. In other words, I think you misunderstand everything, because a weak plaintiff is not the same as other stronger arguments can't be used.
                                                                except now that the dismissal is on record the defendent can point to it and claim that a new case is the same old thing and should be dismissed as quickly.

                                                                before you can ever get any of your "other arguments" heard you would have to disprove this claim.
                                                                Fail to do so and the case goes away. It is one more road block in the away of getting a ruling in your favor.

                                                                Originally Posted by crockett
                                                                btw being it's Brazers whom owns many of these illegal tubes. Why doesn't someone sue them for unfair business practices? I'm sure it could be argued that they are trying to dilute their competitions content by giving it away for free on tube sites, causing their competition harm.
                                                                brazzers could point to the ruling and say see that is the exact same arguement (Which it is BTW) and it would fold like house of cards.

                                                                “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • crockett
                                                                    in a van by the river
                                                                    • May 2003
                                                                    • 76818
                                                                    #117
                                                                    Originally posted by gideongallery
                                                                    and what do you think the 99.5% of the US population who have a tv and there for have been granted access to "lost"(one of the series sued for) are.

                                                                    each person in that majority group are doing nothing but using the swarm(cloud) as a vcr.
                                                                    Each person has the same right to timeshift as a person who recorded it with a vcr.
                                                                    The network effect doesn't take away that right.

                                                                    OK let me explain it to you.

                                                                    If you record a show off TV, you are paying for cable or satellite, so you have the right to record a show or movie and watch it later. You are "paying" for access to the TV programing. If you stop paying they turn it off, yet you can still watch the videos you may have recorded.

                                                                    You however "can't" share them on a mass scale. Even DVD's and VCR tapes have warnings at the start that tell you it's violation of Federal law. That means if you buy a DVD at a store you do not have the right to show it to others for commercial gain.

                                                                    Illegal tube uses have not paid for the right to view those videos and the owners of the site do not have the legal right to share them with others.
                                                                    Last edited by crockett; 07-30-2009, 08:29 AM.
                                                                    In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • gideongallery
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                                        • 7082
                                                                        #118
                                                                        Originally posted by crockett
                                                                        OK let me explain it to you.

                                                                        If you record a show off TV, you are paying for cable or satellite, so you have the right to record a show or movie and watch it later. You are "paying" for access to the TV programing. If you stop paying they turn it off, yet you can still watch the videos you may have recorded.

                                                                        You however "can't" share them on a mass scale. Even DVD's and VCR tapes have warnings at the start that tell you it's violation of Federal law. That means if you buy a DVD at a store you do not have the right to show it to others for commercial gain.

                                                                        Illegal tube uses have not paid for the right to view those videos and the owners of the site do not have the legal right to share them with others.
                                                                        and again your talking about going after the vcr sellers for what could be an illegal action by vcr users.

                                                                        That the point, you could make bootleg copies of movies with daisy chains of vcrs.
                                                                        That doesn't make VCR illegal,
                                                                        that doesn't make walmart guilty of contributory infringement

                                                                        the swarm is a collection of people some who have a right to download the content (timeshifting, backup etc) and some that don't.

                                                                        Only those that don't are committing a crime, and should be punished.
                                                                        the tube sites and torrent sites are acting like walmart providing a technology implementation that can be abused and not abused.

                                                                        “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • xxxjay
                                                                            Tube groupie.
                                                                            • Aug 2002
                                                                            • 13482
                                                                            #119
                                                                            Why are you guys debating VCRs? It's pretty silly.

                                                                            There is a big difference between recording a program you watch in your house and rebroadcasting it to millions each day.
                                                                            http://donttellmehowtoruinmylife.com/ - http://www.jmdigitalmarketing.com/my...s-and-reviews/ - http://www.wouldyouhitit.org - http://shinyobjectreviews.com/

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • crockett
                                                                                in a van by the river
                                                                                • May 2003
                                                                                • 76818
                                                                                #120
                                                                                Originally posted by xxxjay
                                                                                Why are you guys debating VCRs? It's pretty silly.

                                                                                There is a big difference between recording a program you watch in your house and rebroadcasting it to millions each day.

                                                                                He has no real argument, so he always brings up BS like this. He is just trying to justify the fact that he supports stealing content.
                                                                                In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • aniloscash
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Oct 2008
                                                                                    • 1161
                                                                                    #121
                                                                                    when you start bringing in additional parties that you cant prove knowingly took part in any copyright infringement all you do is drag out the case. This is a case that could take years and years to conclude.
                                                                                    Got Milf Traffic Contact Me ICQ 473236446
                                                                                    j (at)anilos (dot)com
                                                                                    http://www.aniloscash.com

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • gideongallery
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Aug 2003
                                                                                        • 7082
                                                                                        #122
                                                                                        Originally posted by xxxjay
                                                                                        Why are you guys debating VCRs? It's pretty silly.

                                                                                        There is a big difference between recording a program you watch in your house and rebroadcasting it to millions each day.
                                                                                        Originally posted by crockett
                                                                                        He has no real argument, so he always brings up BS like this. He is just trying to justify the fact that he supports stealing content.
                                                                                        the US supreme court just ruled that timeshifting using a cload is legal

                                                                                        there is no way you can make that bullshit arguement any more.

                                                                                        you can cry and whin all you want but that the fact of law.

                                                                                        “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • tony299
                                                                                            lurker
                                                                                            • Aug 2002
                                                                                            • 57021
                                                                                            #123
                                                                                            from what i heard this case isnt over.

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • mmcfadden
                                                                                                So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                • Oct 2008
                                                                                                • 5099
                                                                                                #124
                                                                                                So who won? Tubes... Teen...

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • Agent 488
                                                                                                    Registered User
                                                                                                    • Feb 2006
                                                                                                    • 22511
                                                                                                    #125
                                                                                                    who cares ...

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • xxxjay
                                                                                                        Tube groupie.
                                                                                                        • Aug 2002
                                                                                                        • 13482
                                                                                                        #126
                                                                                                        Originally posted by gideongallery
                                                                                                        the US supreme court just ruled that timeshifting using a cload is legal

                                                                                                        there is no way you can make that bullshit arguement any more.

                                                                                                        you can cry and whin all you want but that the fact of law.
                                                                                                        Go die.

                                                                                                        Soon.
                                                                                                        http://donttellmehowtoruinmylife.com/ - http://www.jmdigitalmarketing.com/my...s-and-reviews/ - http://www.wouldyouhitit.org - http://shinyobjectreviews.com/

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • Dirty Dane
                                                                                                            Sick Fuck
                                                                                                            • Feb 2004
                                                                                                            • 9491
                                                                                                            #127
                                                                                                            Originally posted by gideongallery
                                                                                                            the US supreme court just ruled that timeshifting using a cload is legal

                                                                                                            there is no way you can make that bullshit arguement any more.

                                                                                                            you can cry and whin all you want but that the fact of law.
                                                                                                            Is that supposed to be a legal advice? If so, why don't you put all your movies, music, tv-shows, books, porn... on your website, for public "backup", and then see what happens?

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • gideongallery
                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                • 7082
                                                                                                                #128
                                                                                                                Originally posted by Dirty Dane
                                                                                                                Is that supposed to be a legal advice? If so, why don't you put all your movies, music, tv-shows, books, porn... on your website, for public "backup", and then see what happens?
                                                                                                                there is a significant difference between releasing non working pieces into a swarm and putting an entire working copy on a website you moron

                                                                                                                that why i said timeshifting in a cloud not timeshifting on a website you own and control.

                                                                                                                “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • gideongallery
                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                    • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                    • 7082
                                                                                                                    #129
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by gideongallery
                                                                                                                    there is a significant difference between releasing non working pieces into a swarm and putting an entire working copy on a website you moron

                                                                                                                    that why i said timeshifting in a cloud not timeshifting on a website you own and control.
                                                                                                                    sorry should be providing timeshifting on a website you own and control.

                                                                                                                    That would go against the grokster ruling.

                                                                                                                    If you still haven't gotten it timeshifting is a downloading protection, not an uploading protection.

                                                                                                                    “When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • mmcfadden
                                                                                                                        So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                        • Oct 2008
                                                                                                                        • 5099
                                                                                                                        #130
                                                                                                                        clearly... everybody here needs to look at my foot!

                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • qxm
                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                            • Jul 2006
                                                                                                                            • 5970
                                                                                                                            #131
                                                                                                                            Cliffnotes anyone????? .......

                                                                                                                            ICQ: 266990876

                                                                                                                              Comment

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