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thinkhype

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#1

Online Sport Betting - What you think?

07-06-2009, 06:43 PM

Wanted your opinions on the subject:

- Is this legal everywhere?
- What kind of back-end are we talking about?
- Should someone target all sports or just focus on one?

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

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#2

07-06-2009, 08:00 PM

If you want to gamble, play the markets or poker. Sports betting you are playing against the house and we all know the house usually ends up winning in the long run. Play something that lets you be in control of your risk/reward.
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#3

07-06-2009, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by zEn84

If you want to gamble, play the markets or poker. Sports betting you are playing against the house and we all know the house usually ends up winning in the long run. Play something that lets you be in control of your risk/reward.

I think he is talking about starting a business, not gamble himself..

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#4

07-07-2009, 04:13 AM

If you have to ask those questions, you probably no DEFINITELY shouldn't be considering it.

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thinkhype

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#5

07-07-2009, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by zEn84

If you want to gamble, play the markets or poker. Sports betting you are playing against the house and we all know the house usually ends up winning in the long run. Play something that lets you be in control of your risk/reward.

I wouldn't come here if I needed advice on gambling ;)

Originally posted by lagcam

If you have to ask those questions, you probably no DEFINITELY shouldn't be considering it.

i really doubt asking for opinions can hurt.

anyone else has any ideas on the subject?

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#6

07-07-2009, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by thinkhype

- Is this legal everywhere?

Regarding sports betting, yes it is legal. I am not sure if you want to work as an affiliate or you are ready to open sports-betting site. As an affiliate, you can choose to promote many of the sponsors on RevShare basis. Once you made a good base of players, you will see your profits raising. It's game of patient and building players base.

Originally posted by thinkhype

- Should someone target all sports or just focus on one?

It's good idea to start targeting one particular sport and then as your site grows to add more options. (This is the case if you are working as an affiliate). Also, best conversion is amongst the sponsors who have all-in-one product - Casino, Poker, Sportsbook, Games. Players love to jump from Sportsbook to Poker or Casino. This brings higher player value and better retention.

Hit me up, and I can give you some feedback which sponsors and particular products are converting the best for me.

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#7

07-07-2009, 05:21 AM

First, its 100% illegal in the US and that's also the biggest market.

Second, you will need at least $1-$5million of rolling reserve for payouts as you get started.

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#8

07-07-2009, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by zEn84

If you want to gamble, play the markets or poker. Sports betting you are playing against the house and we all know the house usually ends up winning in the long run. Play something that lets you be in control of your risk/reward.

I make a lot of money on sport betting. At least with tennis, the sport that I better know...

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#9

07-07-2009, 05:48 AM

It's awesome, what do you play online? I'm currently playing PKR!

I'm just a newbie.
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#10

07-07-2009, 05:51 AM

I like it for the football season

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#11

07-07-2009, 05:57 AM

in ym country is totally legal

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#12

07-07-2009, 06:05 AM

I need a new online book.
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thinkhype

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#13

07-07-2009, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by ultra100

Regarding sports betting, yes it is legal. I am not sure if you want to work as an affiliate or you are ready to open sports-betting site. As an affiliate, you can choose to promote many of the sponsors on RevShare basis. Once you made a good base of players, you will see your profits raising. It's game of patient and building players base.

It's good idea to start targeting one particular sport and then as your site grows to add more options. (This is the case if you are working as an affiliate). Also, best conversion is amongst the sponsors who have all-in-one product - Casino, Poker, Sportsbook, Games. Players love to jump from Sportsbook to Poker or Casino. This brings higher player value and better retention.

Hit me up, and I can give you some feedback which sponsors and particular products are converting the best for me.

Good advice! We are looking at starting our own betting site. For affiliates, what kind of related sites can convert best with betting sites apart of blasting it with popunders and redirects? Sport blogs?

Originally posted by Wizzo

First, its 100% illegal in the US and that's also the biggest market.

Second, you will need at least $1-$5million of rolling reserve for payouts as you get started.

First, thanks for the confirmation. Wouldn't this number be unrealistic considering we would just be starting the site and focusing on acquiring loyal players? What kind of strategy are we looking at for making them think their winning something by betting on the site?

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#14

07-07-2009, 06:12 AM

Nothing is ever legal everywhere.
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#15

07-07-2009, 08:25 AM

If any of you guys want to get in on pushing Sports.com feel free to contact me. It's been online 13 years and affiliate-wise, is unsaturated as it's never before had a public affiliate program

Get in now before we open the affiliate program to everyone in the next few months and you'll have a better shot at referring those whales!

We also can offer you legal opinion in regards to promoting in the USA, we are an "all in one" site with Poker, Casino, Sports betting and Horses and have aggressive promotions, contests, features and bonuses.

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#16

07-07-2009, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by thinkhype

Good advice! We are looking at starting our own betting site. For affiliates, what kind of related sites can convert best with betting sites apart of blasting it with popunders and redirects? Sport blogs?

At this moment, I am more concentrated on casino promotions. The strongest conversion have affiliate sites trusted by players. Good example is CasinoMeister.com. The trust is the most important factor. Safe and accredited online casinos should be main priority to every affiliate in this field. If you put trust and safety before easy money, you are on half-way to success.

Regarding sports-betting, the "Tipsters Websites" work good and sites that analyze odds from different betting sites and show best odds from various sources. Also, this market is very specific; as in one moment people are searching for Liverpool VS Milan and the other day Spain VS Brazil . So, sites that get indexed fast by Google get decent traffic from those specific "daily searches". Good example for sports-betting affiliate site is GoonersGuide.com.

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thinkhype

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#17

07-07-2009, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by ultra100

At this moment, I am more concentrated on casino promotions. The strongest conversion have affiliate sites trusted by players. Good example is CasinoMeister.com. The trust is the most important factor. Safe and accredited online casinos should be main priority to every affiliate in this field. If you put trust and safety before easy money, you are on half-way to success.

Regarding sports-betting, the "Tipsters Websites" work good and sites that analyze odds from different betting sites and show best odds from various sources. Also, this market is very specific; as in one moment people are searching for Liverpool VS Milan and the other day Spain VS Brazil . So, sites that get indexed fast by Google get decent traffic from those specific "daily searches". Good example for sports-betting affiliate site is GoonersGuide.com.

Have you ever tried to open up your own betting site? You don't think it's worth it?

What about sites like BetUS.com, this site is relatively new and seems huge.

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#18

07-07-2009, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by thinkhype

Have you ever tried to open up your own betting site? You don't think it's worth it?

What about sites like BetUS.com, this site is relatively new and seems huge.

No, I haven't tried it. Not, yet.

I am not thinking that it's not worth of it, but it requires a lot of investments. From licensing, software, 24/7 support, processing..etc. You can start with sports-betting and later-on add casino, poker and games to cut the starting costs. It's very competitive market, but at the same time very profitable.

Regarding BetUS.com, it's not so new brand. They started in 1994, but they just recently added Poker to their Website.

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#19

07-07-2009, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by thinkhype

You don't think it's worth it?

The online gaming industry is one of the fastest growing segments of internet commerce today, in fact, in 2006 players wagered over Twelve Billion Dollars at online casinos and that figure is expected to double in 10 years!

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#20

07-07-2009, 10:21 AM

I was talking to a guy thats setting up some online betting stuff.

He told me that the average signup is worth around 350.00

So if you are ok with losing that then it's all good

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#21

07-07-2009, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by ultra100

Hit me up, and I can give you some feedback which sponsors and particular products are converting the best for me.

Are you promoting poker too?
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#22

07-07-2009, 10:51 AM

My boyfriend runs an online racing tips site, every day he looks through form, then he adds 3 of his bets for the day with a staking plan inside his members area and emails all his members

He is wanting to do a sports site too as he seems to be quite good with cricket.
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#23

07-07-2009, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by frankie_gunn

Are you promoting poker too?

Yes, but casino performs better for me.

Website: Poker-Boss.com

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#24

07-07-2009, 11:04 AM

Mr Hype,

based only on your questions, i can safely tell you that you do not have nearly enough knowledge of offshore sports betting to even consider becoming a bookmaker. if you are seriously considering it, move to costa rica & get a job at a book, & learn the business. short of that you will get mauled as soon as sharps realize you are a rookie bookie.

GL.

Last edited by Joshua G; 07-07-2009, 11:05 AM.
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#25

07-07-2009, 11:15 AM

if you open a book, you run the risk of getting middled, or getting killed on one sided action. you need to know what the critical numbers are for each sport (NBA is 3, 6, & 10, while NFL is 3 & 7) & you need to ensure you hedge when you get one sided action. you can make money 364 days then on day 365 you get wiped out & them some. The only edge you have as a book is the vig, & you better know how to manage the lines & the action so you are not overexposed. & this does not begin to cover the issues of payment processing, money laundering & legal issues in some countries. unless you get the right experience running a book, you can easily get killed.
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#26

07-07-2009, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by ultra100

Yes, but casino performs better for me.

Can you please tell me how do you convince people to play poker WITH real money?

I mean, from your experince, what's the most effective incentive/offer that makes them play WITH real money?

Thank you.
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#27

07-07-2009, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by frankie_gunn

Can you please tell me how do you convince people to play poker WITH real money?

I mean, from your experince, what's the most effective incentive/offer that makes them play WITH real money?

Thank you.

When I started to promote Poker, I was focused on Freerolls. It's probably to hardest way to get a real-money player. From hundreds of people, you will probably get few of them trying for real-money, and low-rollers. The good idea to turn freerollers into real-money players is to run a forum and organize low-cost tournaments or added-tournaments.

The best way I see it now, is to focus on targeted keywords (that doesn't contain word "free" or "freeroll), and SEO your pages for that keyword. For example: best us poker websites

The tricky thing in poker is that I had a player who deposited $1000, and lost in few minutes. My earnings were less then few bucks. In poker you need active but good players. The more he plays and wins, more rake he makes and better for you.

Also, the trends are showing that "rakeback sites" are taking leading position in poker affiliate market. If your player find good rakeback deal, sooner or later he may disappear from your stats.

For all those things, I have seen much better earnings in casino then poker promotion.

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#28

07-07-2009, 11:56 AM

Casino and Sports Betting make a lot more money than Poker and are easier to convert.

For Poker, many people already have a favorite poker site and it's hard to make them change. You need to have something really unique and attractive to sway them.

Casinos and Sports, on the other hand, are much easier to draw people to and I feel are less saturated right now than Poker is. Players will join multiple Casinos and Books, since lines and promotions vary so much from one to another.

Example, Player X likes the hockey lines on BetUS so he bets on hockey there. However for Football, lines are often more to his favor on Sports.com. Then, on Bodog he likes the Basketball lines. You get the idea. With Poker many players try a lot of sites, but the majority stick with only playing on one or two.

The same for Casinos, with a variety of themes, games, etc... a player will often play in many different sites.

The bottom line though is an average Casino/Book player makes you a LOT more money than an average poker player.

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#29

07-07-2009, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by joshgirls

if you open a book, you run the risk of getting middled, or getting killed on one sided action. you need to know what the critical numbers are for each sport (NBA is 3, 6, & 10, while NFL is 3 & 7) & you need to ensure you hedge when you get one sided action. you can make money 364 days then on day 365 you get wiped out & them some. The only edge you have as a book is the vig, & you better know how to manage the lines & the action so you are not overexposed. & this does not begin to cover the issues of payment processing, money laundering & legal issues in some countries. unless you get the right experience running a book, you can easily get killed.

This completely sums it up 100%. If you don't have an experienced linesmaker to set and move the number as money comes in, and if you don't have relationships with other books to lay off bets if you get too much one sided money on a game, then you could get wiped out a quarter of the way through football season. If you think adult programs that go belly up and run off with affiliates money is bad you should see how often it has happened over the years with well funded, experienced staff online sportsbooks.

You would also 100% have to move your operation to a location like Costa Rica that provides licenses for online books, and not just open a mail drop there, I'm talking about physically move your operation and call center there. Most players won't even give a new book the time of day if they don't feel they have a gaming board, even one as lousy as Costa Rica's, that has bonded a book so they have a hope of getting their money back if you go tits up.

There is so much more to it than that, and yes it is illegal in the US, and even though many big books still take US customers, it is a fucking headache for them to be able to transfer money to your book. You would have to find a company to act as a Western Union or Moneygram front to even be able to accept deposits and payout customers. Now if you're just looking to start a small operation where you take in some customers locally, and you want them to have a place to call in and place their bets or to be able to bet online, then there are offshore sportsbook staffing companies that will do that for you, but you will still have to move the line on your own...

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#30

07-07-2009, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Varius

Casino and Sports Betting make a lot more money than Poker and are easier to convert.

For Poker, many people already have a favorite poker site and it's hard to make them change. You need to have something really unique and attractive to sway them.

Casinos and Sports, on the other hand, are much easier to draw people to and I feel are less saturated right now than Poker is. Players will join multiple Casinos and Books, since lines and promotions vary so much from one to another.

Example, Player X likes the hockey lines on BetUS so he bets on hockey there. However for Football, lines are often more to his favor on Sports.com. Then, on Bodog he likes the Basketball lines. You get the idea. With Poker many players try a lot of sites, but the majority stick with only playing on one or two.

The same for Casinos, with a variety of themes, games, etc... a player will often play in many different sites.

The bottom line though is an average Casino/Book player makes you a LOT more money than an average poker player.

100% Agree.

I know casino players that sign-up and play literally every new casino that hit the market. However poker players mostly install new software because of highly-attractive freeroll. They stick to one or two poker rooms and play there.

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#31

07-07-2009, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Varius

The same for Casinos, with a variety of themes, games, etc... a player will often play in many different sites.

Not to mention the Deposit bonuses many casino's offer are very inticing to players.
Even though a player will have to bet/play a certain amount/level before they can access the bonus money for withdrawal, you'll find most players go for the deal.

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#32

07-07-2009, 12:40 PM

i cant imagine even being a sportsbook. sports betting is one of the most stressful things i ever did in my life. The easy money is a thrill but more often its a grind & the unexpected happens constantly. Look how close Fed came to losing Wimbledon. An unknown US teen took out a top 10 womans player.

& the player has to only worry about their own card. the book has to manage every game on the board every single time & day of the year. 11am games, snow games, garbage games, foreign games, every fucking game.

Leave it to the pros.
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#33

07-07-2009, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by frankie_gunn

Can you please tell me how do you convince people to play poker WITH real money?

I mean, from your experince, what's the most effective incentive/offer that makes them play WITH real money?

Thank you.

the biggest incentive/offer is to be a high profile site that is promoting million dollar games and with the top TV players as spokespersons, and television advertising etc..., people have choices and know which ones are the big ones, so they will sign up to Party Poker, Full Tilt, or Poker Stars directly without needing any "convincing".... if those sites are giving away legit bonuses it doesn't hurt either

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#34

07-07-2009, 01:54 PM

Thanks, guys, for your kind answers. It's really helpful.
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#35

07-08-2009, 01:28 PM

First of all, thanks for all your responses! Very well appreciated and exactly what I was expecting from positive GFY members!

Originally posted by ultra100

No, I haven't tried it. Not, yet.

I am not thinking that it's not worth of it, but it requires a lot of investments. From licensing, software, 24/7 support, processing..etc. You can start with sports-betting and later-on add casino, poker and games to cut the starting costs. It's very competitive market, but at the same time very profitable.

Regarding BetUS.com, it's not so new brand. They started in 1994, but they just recently added Poker to their Website.

We would focus on starting with Betting, maybe even just a few sports and then add some more gambling to the boat to raise the profits.

Originally posted by LeRoy

I was talking to a guy thats setting up some online betting stuff.

He told me that the average signup is worth around 350.00

So if you are ok with losing that then it's all good

At the beginning I understand I'll need some sort of bankroll, but people wouldn't be in this market to lose money.

Originally posted by joshgirls

if you open a book, you run the risk of getting middled, or getting killed on one sided action. you need to know what the critical numbers are for each sport (NBA is 3, 6, & 10, while NFL is 3 & 7) & you need to ensure you hedge when you get one sided action. you can make money 364 days then on day 365 you get wiped out & them some. The only edge you have as a book is the vig, & you better know how to manage the lines & the action so you are not overexposed. & this does not begin to cover the issues of payment processing, money laundering & legal issues in some countries. unless you get the right experience running a book, you can easily get killed.

I would definitely look into hiring a bookmaker to start things off and maybe help with the collaboration of the coding.

You don't think we can get this system completely automated?

Originally posted by Varius

Casino and Sports Betting make a lot more money than Poker and are easier to convert.

For Poker, many people already have a favorite poker site and it's hard to make them change. You need to have something really unique and attractive to sway them.

Casinos and Sports, on the other hand, are much easier to draw people to and I feel are less saturated right now than Poker is. Players will join multiple Casinos and Books, since lines and promotions vary so much from one to another.

Example, Player X likes the hockey lines on BetUS so he bets on hockey there. However for Football, lines are often more to his favor on Sports.com. Then, on Bodog he likes the Basketball lines. You get the idea. With Poker many players try a lot of sites, but the majority stick with only playing on one or two.

The same for Casinos, with a variety of themes, games, etc... a player will often play in many different sites.

The bottom line though is an average Casino/Book player makes you a LOT more money than an average poker player.

We were thinking of starting off with Poker, but then again you summed it up pretty nicely. Poker is already pretty saturrated in terms of big players, PokerStars.net, Pkr.com, etc.

Originally posted by Profits of Doom

This completely sums it up 100%. If you don't have an experienced linesmaker to set and move the number as money comes in, and if you don't have relationships with other books to lay off bets if you get too much one sided money on a game, then you could get wiped out a quarter of the way through football season. If you think adult programs that go belly up and run off with affiliates money is bad you should see how often it has happened over the years with well funded, experienced staff online sportsbooks.

Definitely not the same as adult programs, we understand that ;)

Originally posted by Profits of Doom

You would also 100% have to move your operation to a location like Costa Rica that provides licenses for online books, and not just open a mail drop there, I'm talking about physically move your operation and call center there. Most players won't even give a new book the time of day if they don't feel they have a gaming board, even one as lousy as Costa Rica's, that has bonded a book so they have a hope of getting their money back if you go tits up.

I don't get it? Your saying players wouldn't trust a betting operation based in Canada/united states? What if we focus on getting a book from our local area, it exists no?

Originally posted by Profits of Doom

There is so much more to it than that, and yes it is illegal in the US, and even though many big books still take US customers, it is a fucking headache for them to be able to transfer money to your book. You would have to find a company to act as a Western Union or Moneygram front to even be able to accept deposits and payout customers. Now if you're just looking to start a small operation where you take in some customers locally, and you want them to have a place to call in and place their bets or to be able to bet online, then there are offshore sportsbook staffing companies that will do that for you, but you will still have to move the line on your own...

So what your saying is that we cannot hire North American sportbooks because it is illegal? So sites like BetUS.com, etc. (their bookmakers) are working from offshore locations?

I understand the fact that it would the communication a whole lot easier if we had all of our operations in a place like Costa rica because you would be in direct contact with your sportbooks, etc. Just can't see how there aren't any in NA?

Originally posted by joshgirls

i cant imagine even being a sportsbook. sports betting is one of the most stressful things i ever did in my life. The easy money is a thrill but more often its a grind & the unexpected happens constantly. Look how close Fed came to losing Wimbledon. An unknown US teen took out a top 10 womans player.

& the player has to only worry about their own card. the book has to manage every game on the board every single time & day of the year. 11am games, snow games, garbage games, foreign games, every fucking game.

Leave it to the pros.

We definitely would not be taking part with the bets in a direct way, we would be hiring someone for this obviously (or paying him on commission). We would take care of the promotion and management of the online business and getting the team together only. Obviously we will get investors.

Originally posted by d-null

the biggest incentive/offer is to be a high profile site that is promoting million dollar games and with the top TV players as spokespersons, and television advertising etc..., people have choices and know which ones are the big ones, so they will sign up to Party Poker, Full Tilt, or Poker Stars directly without needing any "convincing".... if those sites are giving away legit bonuses it doesn't hurt either

Well said, we already have our marketing team set, and celebrities are pretty much the best way to go for promotion!

Think Hype Networks

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