Chargeback Rebuttal Formula

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  • tobedeleted
    Pay Per Minute Products
    • Nov 2015
    • 299
    #1

    Chargeback Rebuttal Formula

    Anyone have one? An actual method that will result in (at least) 50% wins in the result of a chargeback?

    This question is for Webmasters with merchant accounts.

    I have done everything and I constantly adjust and add new filters, etc. But it seems that all I'm doing is wasting time, money and making it harder for my customers to do business.

    - Website name on billing descriptor (check)
    - Phone number on billing descriptor (check)
    - Billing website with support form, phone number, ticket system (check)
    - Clearly defined billing descriptor name when a customer makes any purchase (check)
    - Removed ALL automated billing so the customer must input all CC data online (check)
    - Generated PDF forms stored and sent to the customer for every transaction (check)
    - Actual call connection verification through 3rd party VOIP carrier (check)
    - Double opt-in email for all registrations (check)
    - Fraud screening through gateway (check)
    - GEO access restrictions
    - Me, reviewing each and every sale... (check)

    Now I do not get 'fraud'. At least not real fraud. And I do not get many chargebacks.

    But when I do I put together a rebuttal that should prove that the charge was legit. But do I have a shot in hell of ever winning a rebuttal - no.

    I have to take people to court, collections, etc. Fortunately I have not had to do that yet.

    So what gives? I mean there must be some protection for merchants right? I know it's high risk but still if you are actively monitoring and using all of the tools available then there must be some way to earn money and actually keep it.

    You might suggest chargeback companies that alert you before a dispute becomes a chargeback. Sounds good, but the reality is they get about 15% bank coverage at best.

    Seriously, if anyone has a secret formula please post it or PM me.
    Tags: None
    • Bladewire
      StraightBro
      • Aug 2003
      • 56228
      #2
      Hire one of the collection companies that posts here to get the ones that fall through the cracks.

      Prominently post the collection companies information in your help section and terms of service so scammers will know what's in store for them.

      Chargeback rebuttals are a crapshoot and the banks often tend to side with the customer despite the doc's you send proving the customer is a scammer. I've had multiple merchant accounts for years now and this has been my experience.


      Skype: CallTomNow

        Comment

        • Sly
          Let's do some business!
          • Sep 2004
          • 31377
          #3
          How many are you getting and what's the actual chargeback ratio?

          For the most part, they are going to be a cost of business. Only so much you can do. Unless you have real volume, the chargeback management companies might not be interested.

          I use Chargebacks 911 and am happy with them. Another one is MIDigator, though they wanted 500 chargebacks on month last time I spoke with them. You could also speak with Chargeback Help, they have a presence in the adult industry. Another option is to ask your gateway if they offer any chargeback rebuttal services, I know that Rocket Gate is tied in with both Ethoca and Verifi which is not quite the same but it is helpful.
          Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted

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            Comment

            • NETbilling
              Confirmed User
              • Jan 2002
              • 8598
              #4
              Originally posted by sincats
              Anyone have one? An actual method that will result in (at least) 50% wins in the result of a chargeback?

              This question is for Webmasters with merchant accounts.

              I have done everything and I constantly adjust and add new filters, etc. But it seems that all I'm doing is wasting time, money and making it harder for my customers to do business.

              - Website name on billing descriptor (check)
              - Phone number on billing descriptor (check)
              - Billing website with support form, phone number, ticket system (check)
              - Clearly defined billing descriptor name when a customer makes any purchase (check)
              - Removed ALL automated billing so the customer must input all CC data online (check)
              - Generated PDF forms stored and sent to the customer for every transaction (check)
              - Actual call connection verification through 3rd party VOIP carrier (check)
              - Double opt-in email for all registrations (check)
              - Fraud screening through gateway (check)
              - GEO access restrictions
              - Me, reviewing each and every sale... (check)

              Now I do not get 'fraud'. At least not real fraud. And I do not get many chargebacks.

              But when I do I put together a rebuttal that should prove that the charge was legit. But do I have a shot in hell of ever winning a rebuttal - no.

              I have to take people to court, collections, etc. Fortunately I have not had to do that yet.

              So what gives? I mean there must be some protection for merchants right? I know it's high risk but still if you are actively monitoring and using all of the tools available then there must be some way to earn money and actually keep it.

              You might suggest chargeback companies that alert you before a dispute becomes a chargeback. Sounds good, but the reality is they get about 15% bank coverage at best.

              Seriously, if anyone has a secret formula please post it or PM me.
              Hi,

              There is no secret formula and you are doing all of the things that that we would suggest, except are you providing 24/7 live customer service via phone, chat and email? Also, our gateway is integrates with several chargeback reporting services which can certainly help as well. I assume your content and offerings are great and typically your customers are happy with what you are providing them for the prices you are charging?

              Mitch


              Mitch Farber
              CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
              Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
              Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

                Comment

                • tobedeleted
                  Pay Per Minute Products
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 299
                  #5
                  Thank Netbilling, you guys are great!

                  I do offer 24/7 support via phone and text (some people prefer to text). But none of the customers that issue a chargeback have ever made an attempt to contact me. Because they know how to use the system.

                  Even the banks that can clearly see the billing descriptor with the merchant URL and phone number have not (ever) called to possibly resolve the issue.

                  I even have daily reporting from the merchant bank to catch a chargeback within a day or two after it is filed. *That does help.

                  If I at least had the option I would provide a refund. It might hurt business depending on the amount but the only other choice I have is a chargeback. That's the unfortunate corner merchants are put in and from what I can tell there really is no defense offered.

                  Have you ever considered building a validation center that merchants can use for an additional expense. For example if a customer reaches a transaction limit an API can be used that will direct the customer to you to further verify that they are the card holder and collect the data needed to fight any potential chargeback.

                  I only ask because I think it would be a great feature, protect merchants and you have a great name in the industry. Smaller sites would face more resistance to this for fear of have their identity stolen.

                    Comment

                    • ZENRA
                      Confirmed User
                      • Sep 2016
                      • 655
                      #6
                      Not worth the time to contest a chargeback for a $30 subscription.
                      Just accept the chargeback and block the person from signing up again.

                      If you run a subscription site and are getting an unhealthy amount of them, then see if you can pinpoint the reason those chargebacks are happening. Looking at the initial transaction details and login info, is there anything suspicious that your billing provider fraud prevention tools may not have caught?
                      ZENRA | Subtitled Japanese AV | @ZENRAMANIAC
                      JAV VR Content Manager at SexLikeReal

                        Comment

                        • tobedeleted
                          Pay Per Minute Products
                          • Nov 2015
                          • 299
                          #7
                          Originally posted by ZENRA
                          Not worth the time to contest a chargeback for a $30 subscription.
                          Just accept the chargeback and block the person from signing up again.

                          If you run a subscription site and are getting an unhealthy amount of them, then see if you can pinpoint the reason those chargebacks are happening. Looking at the initial transaction details and login info, is there anything suspicious that your billing provider fraud prevention tools may not have caught?
                          True, it's not worth contesting a monthly 1 time subscription. But if you run a cam site or (in our case) an adult chat line then you can have several transactions a day from the same customer as they want to extend the time. *We limit this, but still it can add up.

                          We have done everything on our end and we do not receive many chargebacks. But I like to be prepared and have mechanisms in place to min. any damage. I have done this as far as 'real' fraud goes, but there seems to be no defense from friendly chargebacks.

                            Comment

                            • JesseQuinn
                              feeding the wolves
                              • Aug 2012
                              • 6633
                              #8
                              it annoys me that most cb's tend to be the smallest sums, like a $20 cb with a $25 fee on top just for the pleasure of receiving it

                              I tend to fight all cbs that I deem to be friendly fraud (which are most) and I almost always win. when a cb is actual fraud I never fight it, to me that seems unethical. it's usually pretty easy to tell the difference

                              I do contact the client (about half the time they apologize and work with me to resolve it), scour social media, linked it for details that match their payment info, speak to the contractor who performed the work. usually I can compile a pretty strong case and I think it helps that I don't just default dispute every cb that comes in

                              also observe patterns constantly and switch up your manual scrub if you find you're getting hit by a card thief, they can be pretty persistent and can do a lot if damage if their patterns are ignored

                              by far though I find cb's are just jerks that don't want to pay for what they buy and I refuse to let people steal from me without a fight

                              hope that helps
                              throwing molotav cocktails at the precinct

                                Comment

                                • NETbilling
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Jan 2002
                                  • 8598
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by sincats
                                  Thank Netbilling, you guys are great!

                                  I do offer 24/7 support via phone and text (some people prefer to text). But none of the customers that issue a chargeback have ever made an attempt to contact me. Because they know how to use the system.

                                  Even the banks that can clearly see the billing descriptor with the merchant URL and phone number have not (ever) called to possibly resolve the issue.

                                  I even have daily reporting from the merchant bank to catch a chargeback within a day or two after it is filed. *That does help.

                                  If I at least had the option I would provide a refund. It might hurt business depending on the amount but the only other choice I have is a chargeback. That's the unfortunate corner merchants are put in and from what I can tell there really is no defense offered.

                                  Have you ever considered building a validation center that merchants can use for an additional expense. For example if a customer reaches a transaction limit an API can be used that will direct the customer to you to further verify that they are the card holder and collect the data needed to fight any potential chargeback.

                                  I only ask because I think it would be a great feature, protect merchants and you have a great name in the industry. Smaller sites would face more resistance to this for fear of have their identity stolen.
                                  Hi,

                                  Thanks for the compliment. We actually have merchants that use our call center for order verifications. Once a decline limit has been reached, the merchant can read directed to a page with our call center and contact info or chat to speak to the customer and use another card etc.. This will help them complete the desired purchases. This is available to all of our merchants who use our call center for customer service.


                                  Mitch Farber
                                  CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
                                  Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
                                  Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

                                    Comment

                                    • ilnjscb
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Jun 2009
                                      • 8974
                                      #10
                                      Get IP on login, and ask questions on login. That helps. I just won one the other day by proving a login, and tracking activity by IP.

                                      But actual fraud, the best thing to do is try to offer a refund.

                                        Comment

                                        • tobedeleted
                                          Pay Per Minute Products
                                          • Nov 2015
                                          • 299
                                          #11
                                          We capture so much information it's crazy. We maintain a database of IP's, all activity, communication (backed by a 3rd party company that validates all call connections). We have invoice files, credit card authorization form (mimicked after Docusign) and some details that are confidential and cannot be written here.

                                          I could go on and on..

                                          If I won a rebuttal merely by providing proof of login by IP I'd shit myself. Not saying it can't happen, but the rebuttals I file have so much evidence it could clear someone of murder. But still - no dice.

                                          To NetBilling (question):
                                          Due to the potential serious loss that something like this could cause I would be happy to use your call center services for order verification.

                                          In fact I'd probably re-script my credit card add section to require that the user first call and validate their card before it can be used.

                                          My only question is this: Would that, along with all of the other things I do, provide enough evidence that the transaction is valid?

                                          If so then I would just increase the min. deposit and start working on it tomorrow.

                                            Comment

                                            • tobedeleted
                                              Pay Per Minute Products
                                              • Nov 2015
                                              • 299
                                              #12
                                              I usually avoid real fraud, but if it makes it's way past all of the filters then I can usually spot it. No automation (yet) can beat human eyes watching the store.

                                              In those cases I close the account, block the IP's, blacklist the card, blacklist the IP (server-side) and store an off-site record of the occurrence in the event that the scammer tries to come back with a different card, IP, etc.

                                              But as JesseQuinn mentioned, I also do not file rebuttals from actual fraud. Just refund it if I catch it early enough or take it on the chin if it becomes a chargeback.

                                                Comment

                                                • ZENRA
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Sep 2016
                                                  • 655
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by sincats
                                                  True, it's not worth contesting a monthly 1 time subscription. But if you run a cam site or (in our case) an adult chat line then you can have several transactions a day from the same customer as they want to extend the time. *We limit this, but still it can add up.

                                                  We have done everything on our end and we do not receive many chargebacks. But I like to be prepared and have mechanisms in place to min. any damage. I have done this as far as 'real' fraud goes, but there seems to be no defense from friendly chargebacks.
                                                  Oh yea, in that situation you fight them. Totally agreed there.
                                                  ZENRA | Subtitled Japanese AV | @ZENRAMANIAC
                                                  JAV VR Content Manager at SexLikeReal

                                                    Comment

                                                    • ZENRA
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • Sep 2016
                                                      • 655
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by JesseQuinn
                                                      it annoys me that most cb's tend to be the smallest sums, like a $20 cb with a $25 fee on top just for the pleasure of receiving it

                                                      I tend to fight all cbs that I deem to be friendly fraud (which are most) and I almost always win. when a cb is actual fraud I never fight it, to me that seems unethical. it's usually pretty easy to tell the difference

                                                      I do contact the client (about half the time they apologize and work with me to resolve it), scour social media, linked it for details that match their payment info, speak to the contractor who performed the work. usually I can compile a pretty strong case and I think it helps that I don't just default dispute every cb that comes in

                                                      also observe patterns constantly and switch up your manual scrub if you find you're getting hit by a card thief, they can be pretty persistent and can do a lot if damage if their patterns are ignored

                                                      by far though I find cb's are just jerks that don't want to pay for what they buy and I refuse to let people steal from me without a fight

                                                      hope that helps
                                                      The problem is how much of your time is it worth to contest a $20 chargeback?
                                                      Is the whole process taking you or an employee over 15 minutes? 30 minutes? An hour?

                                                      And in many situations the friendly fraud chargebacks may come from a disgruntled former user who probably won't even be coming back.
                                                      ZENRA | Subtitled Japanese AV | @ZENRAMANIAC
                                                      JAV VR Content Manager at SexLikeReal

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Neighbor
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Nov 2005
                                                          • 1511
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by ilnjscb
                                                          Get IP on login, and ask questions on login. That helps. I just won one the other day by proving a login, and tracking activity by IP.

                                                          But actual fraud, the best thing to do is try to offer a refund.

                                                          This is an IMPORTANT piece of information to have. I used to fight chargebacks for my former company on physical goods. I implemented a system that would create reports based on the CC companies policy to meet their requirements.

                                                          IP address and login activity is a HUGE bonus!

                                                          Also, do you have a TOC they have to check off and is visible for consumers on the site? This was also a requested piece by the CC companies in the past. It should have conditions in there pertaining to signups, charges etc....

                                                            Comment

                                                            • JesseQuinn
                                                              feeding the wolves
                                                              • Aug 2012
                                                              • 6633
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by ZENRA
                                                              The problem is how much of your time is it worth to contest a $20 chargeback?
                                                              Is the whole process taking you or an employee over 15 minutes? 30 minutes? An hour?

                                                              And in many situations the friendly fraud chargebacks may come from a disgruntled former user who probably won't even be coming back.
                                                              10-15 mins of active work per cb from discovery to faxing it off is probably the norm, I use the same premade templates and search tabs for every aspect of the process which really speeds things up plus I really don't get many. maybe I spend 30 mins a month fighting cb's, on a bad month maybe 45 mins

                                                              if I was a huge company dealing with a ton of them I'd def pick and choose my battles, but the way I run things it's a time investment worth it to me, esp cuz I really hate thieves and I feel better after I send a dispute off. sometimes my boy does them for me though, so it's free labor and the only cost is his after-work ps3 time

                                                              often it's just a dude who didn't bother to check the company billing name in his email records when he read his cc bill, for those dudes it's like 5 mins from start to finish and they tend to return as they know they can expect professionalism in using my sites

                                                              each biz def needs their own individual strategy though. just was saying that disputing a cb if one chooses to do so is often successful
                                                              throwing molotav cocktails at the precinct

                                                                Comment

                                                                • chaze
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Aug 2002
                                                                  • 9774
                                                                  #17
                                                                  We hire a company that does it now and it's almost 100%. Without them we might win 1-30.
                                                                  Like the desert needs the rain
                                                                  We do fully manged WordPress, VPS, and Servers. Adult Host Pro https://adulthostpro.com/ Since 2001

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • HairyChick
                                                                      Slowly dying
                                                                      • Sep 2012
                                                                      • 3091
                                                                      #18
                                                                      I remember when the regs went into effect Two percent was the limit per one hundred transactions.

                                                                      I’d get the IP and email upon signup and put a twelve hour hold on viewing content. I’d voice verify every join and if kosher then I’d give access immediately A free week for waiting twelve hours was worth it.

                                                                      I kept a dB of IPs and emails and usernames. Checking took a few minutes.

                                                                      On hacked dial ups I’d send a notice to the ISP.

                                                                      If the user was claiming it wasn’t their own self signing up, and I had proof, a phone call at night usually solved it. The wife at home helped!
                                                                      *****************************************
                                                                      Anti-Semites have Small Penis Syndrome. The only known treatment is electroshock therapy combined with cerebellum removal. Fortunately, it’s a tiny procedure.
                                                                      *****************************************

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