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#1

Bones of Jesus' brother found?

10-21-2002, 08:10 AM

Just heard this on CNN (didn't hear it all):

An ossuary (bone box) was found with the inscription "James, brother of Jesus, son of Joseph" dated 67 AD. Don't know if it was dated by inscription or radioactive elements.

Anyone know more?

Last edited by ADL Colin; 10-21-2002, 08:14 AM.

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#2

10-21-2002, 08:13 AM

Sounds like a Jesus Cash scam
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#3

10-21-2002, 08:13 AM

I heard that they found two baseball cards in the box with the bones. They must be worth a fortune.
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#4

10-21-2002, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by Colin
Just heard this on CNN (didn't hear it all):

An ossuary (bone box) was found with the inscription "James, brother of Jesus, son of Joseph" dated 67 AD. Don't know if it was dated by inscription or radioactive elements.

Anyone know more?

If its new it wouldn't have been carbon dated yet. I don't think bone boxes are consistent with first century Palestinian burial methods, but who knows? Its possible. There is an independant witness, first century Jewish historian Josephus makes reference to James also.
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#5

10-21-2002, 08:19 AM

Did the bible every mentioned that Jesus had a brother?

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#6

10-21-2002, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Penrod
I heard that they found two baseball cards in the box with the bones. They must be worth a fortune.

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#7

10-21-2002, 08:25 AM

Whenever the word Ossuary is used, it always brings to my mind the Sedlec Ossuary:
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#8

10-21-2002, 08:26 AM

I know that CNN is full of crap.... that summs it up- doesent it?
They dident put people in "boxes" at that time, but they put them inside something that looked like a big bag, and put them intothe ground, covered thit stones... So I REALLY dont belive it...
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#9

10-21-2002, 08:27 AM

His father (GOD) is brazilian.
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#10

10-21-2002, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by UncleRanch
Did the bible every mentioned that Jesus had a brother?

Many times.
Galatians 1:19. "But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord's brother."

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#11

10-21-2002, 08:29 AM

If it is true and they did find them.....we are all going to hell.
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#12

10-21-2002, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by Sunshine McGillicutty

If its new it wouldn't have been carbon dated yet. I don't think bone boxes are consistent with first century Palestinian burial methods, but who knows? Its possible. There is an independant witness, first century Jewish historian Josephus makes reference to James also.

Plenty of ossuaries have been found in
Judaea dated to the first century AD.

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#13

10-21-2002, 08:35 AM

Yeah Yeah Yeah.

They also have footage of the Ark, and the Turin is real too!

There is an underscore too many Theologians miss.

The Apochrypha are full of them.

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#14

10-21-2002, 08:40 AM

Think about it though Fletch...what if hard evidence was found proving the bible and its stories to be true. Would you change your ways or your faith?

I'd have to say I probably would. *shrug*
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#15

10-21-2002, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
Yeah Yeah Yeah.

They also have footage of the Ark, and the Turin is real too!

There is an underscore too many Theologians miss.

The Apochrypha are full of them.

I still don't know more than the 60 second soundbite I heard but do you mean the discoverers would have to be theologians? There are many non-Christian (some atheists) Biblical archeologists. Why would it be surprising that a collection of texts would not have many people's name, locations, and dates correct?

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#16

10-21-2002, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by RMG
Think about it though Fletch...what if hard evidence was found proving the bible and its stories to be true. Would you change your ways or your faith?

I'd have to say I probably would. *shrug*

Many people believe in a "historical Jesus" - a man that had a number of followers that were very good at "spreading the word" after he died. Doesn't mean he had to be the messiah.

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#17

10-21-2002, 08:49 AM

I still don't know more than the 60 second soundbite I heard but do you mean the discoverers would have to be theologians?

In didnt say they were. Was just making statements on modern Theoligians. And like it or not, they and the scientists will be the ones putting any study into whatever was found. Didnt mention anything about Discoverers, only the peple who will place their Myth regarding anything found.

There are many non-Christian (some atheists) Biblical archeologists.

I know, I have 2 in my family.

Why would it be surprising that a collection of texts would not have many people's name, locations, and dates correct? [/B]

[/quote]

Again, I didnt say anything about the data found, I havent even read anything on it. You havent either. So forming opinions on the accuracy of said data is silly, debating name accuracy for one.

I refuse to watch CNN on TV , and I don't visit their site so again this is only based on my own knowledge and studies.

I will say this however.

In my extreme Studies of comparing John the Baptist and the supposed Nazarene Bastard Lord. I have found, that no historical data such as CNN at 3 AD can be found, yet we CAN in fact bring up Literary documentation of John the Baptist being beheaded.

And since we have discovered the Shroud to have been faked, I place very little data on the Existence of a Real jesus.

And please keep in mind this is a very very very common name.

Parables and psalms are only there to bring faith, not to be taken literal.

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#18

10-21-2002, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

And since we have discovered the Shroud to have been faked, I place very little data on the Existence of a Real jesus.

So what do you think? Conspiracy planned by Paul? Delusion of the Dozen?

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#19

10-21-2002, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

Again, I didnt say anything about the data found, I havent even read anything on it. You havent either. So forming opinions on the accuracy of said data is silly, debating name accuracy for one.

Why do you say that? Did I state an opinion? Just a question: "Anyone know more?

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#20

10-21-2002, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by Colin

So what do you think? Conspiracy planned by Paul? Delusion of the Dozen?

I think John the Baptist was beheaded and died as the true savior, then jesus kept the Business going.

Who baptised who again?

You need to read more on the study of Leonardo DaVinci paintings.

All his religious works have been studied and have books on them.

Example.

In the Turin Shroud, Leonardo's negative of Christ.

There is a clear cut line going through wear Jesus' neck should be. Very visible and a clear cut right across the neck, Da Vinci placed that there for a reason.

This is wayyy too much to write on some board.

I think its as simple as that.

John the Baptist was preaching before Christ, he had his own people before Christ. Christ showed up on the picture and took over after John was beheaded.

John wrote Revelations.

umm... im rambling.

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#21

10-21-2002, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Colin

Why do you say that? Did I state an opinion? Just a question: "Anyone know more?

I wont debate this shit on some board man.

Its always simple miscommincation that looks like debate.

Geez, I didnt mean any harm by it, it was just a reply to.

Why would it be surprising that a collection of texts would not have many people's name, locations, and dates correct? [/B]

Where you obviously seem ready to argue the point of the data.

No biggy.

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#22

10-21-2002, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Colin
So what do you think? Conspiracy planned by Paul? Delusion of the Dozen?

If you adhere to the Markan primacy, which most NT scholars do, then the Gospels are blindingly obviously the product of progressive legendization, hagiography, or whatever you want to call it. Since not one of the Gospels can be assigned an author with any degree of surety, the 12 figure very little into it.

Its a matter of open debate whether Paul believed in a physical ressurection at all.
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#23

10-21-2002, 03:11 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science...box/index.html

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#24

10-21-2002, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

John wrote Revelations.

Why do you think John the Baptist was the John of Patmos that wrote Revelations?

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#25

10-21-2002, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by UncleRanch
Did the bible every mentioned that Jesus had a brother?

Yes, he was the exact opposite of Jesus..
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#26

10-21-2002, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Sunshine McGillicutty

Its a matter of open debate whether Paul believed in a physical ressurection at all.

Well, I don't believe in that but I still think there was likely a real person named Jesus that might have had a small following - maybe David Koresh like in size.

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#27

10-21-2002, 03:22 PM

James, Joseph and Jesus were common names in ancient Jerusalem, a city of about 40,000 residents. And Lemaire estimates that there could have been as many as 20 Jameses in that city with brothers named Jesus and fathers named Joseph.

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#28

10-21-2002, 03:30 PM

All I can say is must be the herbs.

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#29

10-21-2002, 03:52 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science...box/index.html

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#30

10-21-2002, 03:56 PM

Mastamindz,

You only quoted part of the paragraph. The full reads:

"James, Joseph and Jesus were common names in ancient Jerusalem, a city of about 40,000 residents. And Lemaire estimates that there could have been as many as 20 Jameses in that city with brothers named Jesus and fathers named Joseph. But it is unlikely there would have been more than one James who had a brother of such importance that it merited having him mentioned on his ossuary, Lemaire said."

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#31

10-21-2002, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Colin
Well, I don't believe in that but I still think there was likely a real person named Jesus that might have had a small following - maybe David Koresh like in size.

I agree. As far as the Ossuary, assuming none of the evidence avalible now is seriously contradicted, it seems reasonable to me to believe that this is the real thing. The pedigree of those who accept it is certainly impressive. Lamaire was also the first to translate and recognize the significance a ninth century B.C. stone inscription created by King Mesha of Moab that referred to "the House of David."

James, Joseph and Jesus were common names in ancient Jerusalem, a city of about 40,000 residents. And Lemaire estimates that there could have been as many as 20 Jameses in that city with brothers named Jesus and fathers named Joseph.

There may have been a few jesii around in the first century with brothers named James and fathers named Joseph, but as is noted by Lamaire these sorts of inscriptions on Ossuaries are rare and were only done in the case when the persons relations were of particular significance.

Unfortunately the fundie xtians are now going to misuse this discovery, as they do nearly everything else, and will soon begin claiming it provides substantiation, if not outright proof, of the truth of their nutty religious beliefs.

Its a shame, but many people will fall into superstition because of this.

Hardly anyone, believer or not, who knows anything about first century ANE history doubts that a man named Jesus who had a small following actually existed. Its certainly an amazing artifact, but it provides no additional evidence in the debate over Christianity.

Last edited by Sunshine McGillicutty; 10-21-2002, 04:15 PM.
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#32

10-21-2002, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Sunshine McGillicutty
Its certainly an amazing artifact, but it provides no additional evidence in the debate over Christianity.

Agreed.

This taken from the above linked article, also furthering your point.

While most scholars agree that Jesus existed, no physical evidence from the first century has ever been conclusively tied with his life.

hehehe

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#33

10-21-2002, 04:53 PM

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#34

10-21-2002, 08:01 PM

Makes you wonder how many times Mary actually go away with that "Virgin birth" thing...
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#35

10-21-2002, 09:37 PM

long live jesus dialer

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#36

10-21-2002, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by Colin

Many people believe in a "historical Jesus" - a man that had a number of followers that were very good at "spreading the word" after he died. Doesn't mean he had to be the messiah.

I'm one of them.

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#37

10-21-2002, 09:51 PM

Boneprone is Jesus's brother?

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#38

10-21-2002, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by Jer
His father (GOD) is brazilian.

LOL,, i don't think the country of brazil was even thought of yet
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#39

10-21-2002, 09:56 PM

for the sheep:
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
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#40

10-21-2002, 10:05 PM

Yeah, Jesus was probably a real guy... a schizophrenic, possibly, who heard voices in his head.

For that matter, there was probably a big flood and some guy named Noah managed to escape it on his boat.

Sodom and Gomorrah probably existed, too. There's evidence that the place existed, and it rested on a plate of solid ground that floated on top of soft ground. One day an earthquake caused the plate to descend down the slope, sliding over the soft ground beneath, until it fell into the water. While it was sliding, natural gas pockets exploded, creating large explosions. So sure it happened, but it was interpreted as God's will by the primitive people who didn't understand what was happening... the same kind of people who were easily manipulated by men hearing voices in their heads.
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#41

10-21-2002, 10:16 PM

It might have been another Jesus's brother. Like Jesus Murphy.

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#42

10-21-2002, 10:30 PM

jesus had a brother. who knew. poor guy. tough act to follow.
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#43

10-21-2002, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by Jer
His father (GOD) is brazilian.

Don't you watch the news. The sniper is God. He said so.

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#44

10-21-2002, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Sunshine McGillicutty

If its new it wouldn't have been carbon dated yet. I don't think bone boxes are consistent with first century Palestinian burial methods, but who knows? Its possible. There is an independant witness, first century Jewish historian Josephus makes reference to James also.

Although it must be noted that there are no undisputed references to Jesus in secular writings of the time.
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#45

10-21-2002, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by RMG
Think about it though Fletch...what if hard evidence was found proving the bible and its stories to be true. Would you change your ways or your faith?

I'd have to say I probably would. *shrug*

Would you change your ways if it was the Koran that was proven true with some "hard evidence"?

Would you be getting up before dawn to turn to the east (west?) and pray to Allah?
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#46

10-22-2002, 01:13 AM

Hmmm...

sure would have been easier to keep track of who's who if any of these people had used last names back then.

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#47

10-22-2002, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by Sunshine McGillicutty

Its a shame, but many people will fall into superstition because of this.

I don't know about that. I think the typical Christian response will be "Jesus didn't have a brother" and they'll never think about it again.

I don't think any of the various Christian churches have pushed the concept of Jesus walking around with his siblings.

Most Christians that read Galatians 1:19 or similar passages will say "Ahhh .. brother must mean one of the brotherhood of man."

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#48

10-22-2002, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack
Although it must be noted that there are no undisputed references to Jesus in secular writings of the time.

Actually there is one. Josephus, the first century Jewish historian, referred to Jesus twice. The first reference iin the Antiquities is an obvious christian interpolation, as it contains things Josephus indicated later he didn't believe. The second is generally accepted as being from the pen of Josephus. Here are the two:

#1:

Antiquities 18:63-64

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man if it may be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonders. A teacher of such men who recieve the truth with pleasure. He drew many after him both of the Jews and Gentiles. He was Christ. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again on the third day, as the divine prophets had fortold these and ten thousand other wonderful things about him, and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day

This is obviously at least partially a forgery, because we know from his later writings that Josephus did not believe those things about Jesus.

#2

Antiquities 20. 9.1 199-203

Possessed of such a character, Ananus thought that he had a favorable opportunity because Festus was dead and Albinas was still on the way. And so he convened the judges of the Sanhedrin, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, the one called Christ, whose name was James, and certain others, and accusing them of having transgressed the law delivered them up to be stoned.

This is generally accepted as original.

Christians cite many others; Tacitus, Pliny, the Talmud etc. but they are sketchy at best, and tend to refute the claims being made to boot. If I remember correctly, in Tacitus' reference to Jesus and Christianty he refers to the belief as a "nonsensical superstition" or something similar, as does the Talmud.

Last edited by Sunshine McGillicutty; 10-22-2002, 01:28 AM.
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#49

10-22-2002, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by Colin

I don't know about that. I think the typical Christian response will be "Jesus didn't have a brother" and they'll never think about it again.

I don't think any of the various Christian churches have pushed the concept of Jesus walking around with his siblings.

Most Christians that read Galatians 1:19 or similar passages will say "Ahhh .. brother must mean one of the brotherhood of man."

Correct my if I'm wrong, but isn't it only the Catholics who have a problem with Jesus having brothers? The dogma of the perpetual viginity of Mary, or some such?

In that case, the protestant fundies will have a field day with it.
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#50

10-22-2002, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by Sunshine McGillicutty

coitus ergo sum

Never noticed that tagline before. ;-)

Did you know Josephus was also a military commander?

Another point is that Josephus was born about the same time Jesus died. He wrote a good generation after Jesus had died.

Last edited by ADL Colin; 10-22-2002, 01:37 AM.

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