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so lets recap...
an industry that has for the most part treated the surfer as its worst enemy, sending him into cj networks, tgps with 80% skim, blind links, spammed the shit out of him, stole his money, misrepresented what he was signing up for, conned him into a membership to a members area full of shitty plugins, banged his card 4-5 times for 50+ dollars and spend all your days flowing to the path of least resistance, doing what is easy, looking for the scam and running a business with absolutely no sense of the fact that you are dealing with customers has now deduced that users now are not going to pay for dating...
... and why?
you people are brilliant. because there are too many dating sites.
really?
now you are saying "i'm going to offer a great service and tremendous value to users for something they are looking for everyday and obviously willing to pay for... , but they just won't pay.
and how can you say that? because "value" and "service" and "customer" aren't even in your pathetic fucking vocabularies.Comment
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I'm for:
Free Porn
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Free Dating
Free Hosting
Free Women
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Free Drugs
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Anyone else want to chime in?Comment
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its always amusing to me when people talk about "free" and just can't admit to themselves that it IS ad or membership supported.
either people make money... or they don't. if they don't... then the model fails.
all this stuff is .. is an expression of anxiety over a future where many in this biz realize they will have no place and no future.Comment
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i have a rotary phone in my 63 ford truck. i used to be soooo cutting edge... and get all the ladies. now i just feel lost. i blame tube sites.Comment
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Here's my few cents, considering I had 8+ years in the adult dating industry.
Paid dating will die out. We believe so or would never have sold IwantU (though we sold 1-2 years too late IMO).
Few years ago, the average adult dating site member would sign up to 5-6 sites at a time. Now, I would say they join 2-3 at most. Reasons? The economy, the plethora of "fake" sites and spam, the emergence of free social networking sites and so on. All valid reasons that contribute to less people paying for dating sites.
Dating has looked like it's booming the past two years because of the large increase in volume. Obviously tubes are one major source of traffic, so is the fact more people are now promoting them because for many, paysite ratios have dropped significantly and dating does better. This may not be reliable traffic long-term as it will jump to the next hot new product that makes it better money.
I'm also pretty sure retention is dropping, from a few years back where the average member stayed 6 months+ to what I'd figure is 2-3 months now. Revshare guys can probably testify to that. You can see most of the programs who were doing $100 PPS + on dating have scaled back to the $35-40 range. The ones who haven't, IMO, is because the upsell their own stuff successfully that earn enough per member to cover it, like cams.
There are some people who use techniques where they won't be affected much in the way they sell and convert members to dating sites (can you say e-whoring), but the majority will see it continue to decline...
That is all
Skype variuscr - Email varius AT gmailComment
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I just got a great idea here:
So we need all hookers of the world to unite on one site where there are pics, videos, production-on-demand, cam chats, sms messages, dating (wine, dine, holiday, guaranteed fucking, etc.)....all for money offcourse.
The first one to realise this idea is gonna be a multi millionair.Comment
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you guys got in early... made some coin and then slowly continued into steady decline for many many years as others provided better, nicer sites, more tools, more user interaction, better business models, better webmaster tools, better webmaster payouts while you went into a death spiral.Here's my few cents, considering I had 8+ years in the adult dating industry.
Paid dating will die out. We believe so or would never have sold IwantU (though we sold 1-2 years too late IMO).
Few years ago, the average adult dating site member would sign up to 5-6 sites at a time. Now, I would say they join 2-3 at most. Reasons? The economy, the plethora of "fake" sites and spam, the emergence of free social networking sites and so on. All valid reasons that contribute to less people paying for dating sites.
Dating has looked like it's booming the past two years because of the large increase in volume. Obviously tubes are one major source of traffic, so is the fact more people are now promoting them because for many, paysite ratios have dropped significantly and dating does better. This may not be reliable traffic long-term as it will jump to the next hot new product that makes it better money.
I'm also pretty sure retention is dropping, from a few years back where the average member stayed 6 months+ to what I'd figure is 2-3 months now. Revshare guys can probably testify to that. You can see most of the programs who were doing $100 PPS + on dating have scaled back to the $35-40 range. The ones who haven't, IMO, is because the upsell their own stuff successfully that earn enough per member to cover it, like cams.
There are some people who use techniques where they won't be affected much in the way they sell and convert members to dating sites (can you say e-whoring), but the majority will see it continue to decline...
That is all
of course, you guys had nothing to do with that.. the state of the industry "did it to you"
iwantu.com = FAIL
in fact, when i look at traffic numbers, yours seems to have always been in a major decline when other big sites were both flat or growing.Comment
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i think that they will be good money earners long time from now... becasue people need to chat and have fun all the time... even in recesion...We are responsible for your hosting ... Enjoy in your life.
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While I didn't always agree with some decision made at the company, I'm kind of curious where you got your information stated as fact above from.
Where do you find your traffic "downward spiral" information for one ? Alexa only shows traffic from after we sold.
I can also remind you we were one of the first companies offering an easy-to-use white label solution, we had top-rate payouts for the time and had a solid affiliate program and tools.
If there was one thing you can argue we didn't do, it was give in to running all the 'fake' stuff when all our "new" competitors did and they stole away some traffic due to that (as the hot new fake sites were showing awesome conversions).
Regardless, we sold for a nice profit so your seemingly biased thoughts don't really matter much to me, I'm more curious where you come up with this stuff
Skype variuscr - Email varius AT gmailComment
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I was a part-owner (1 of 2, albeit the minority one) at the time we sold so I know exactly what we got and I also know my former partner has nothing to do with buying and developing domains. I think you are thinking of those who bought it from us, who may have flipped it again quickly afterwards, who are in the buying and acquisitions game.
Skype variuscr - Email varius AT gmailComment
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You would be spot on if traffic was all that was needed to make a site or section of the business work. Sending people to a site is only one step in the process. Giving them a product that want to buy is the next, giving them a product they want to keep buying is the next.
This industry proves that it's not only about sending traffic. As a percentage of income we have sunk more resources, skills and money into sending buyers than maybe any industry. OK tell me the ones who spend more.
.
After all that we are seeing our revenues falling. So where did it all go wrong?
The same reason the dating sites will fail. If someone gets hooked up many move off the dating market. Especially women. If someone does not get hooked up they move out anyway because the product did not meet their expectations.
It WILL come to the point where no matter how many adverts AFF have, how much money they spend on traffic, the people looking at the ads will know what they GOT last time they spent money there. And those who got hooked up are not on the Adult Net anyway, they have the real McCoy. LOL
Now you can tell me about the millions of men who got hooked up, or did not and still buy dating site memberships.
Last edited by Paul Markham; 04-13-2009, 01:00 AM.Comment
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I don't know where this myth that cam and per minute sex doesn't sell anymore came from ;) Guys will always want chicks to service particular fetishes... and chicks that do it well will always charge ;) 1 on 1 sex service will always make money
As far as dating goes... One of the biggies is going to go free eventually.. and run off of ads.. and it'll be a downward spiral for everyone else...
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the dating industry has been around longer than the internet...Comment
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The myth came from you. So far I don't see anyone say cams don't sell, in fact I said it does sell. Just not as well as it used to.I don't know where this myth that cam and per minute sex doesn't sell anymore came from ;) Guys will always want chicks to service particular fetishes... and chicks that do it well will always charge ;) 1 on 1 sex service will always make money
As far as dating goes... One of the biggies is going to go free eventually.. and run off of ads.. and it'll be a downward spiral for everyone else...
What would a site giving away dating info advertise? Another dating site, cam site or go 100% mainstream?Comment
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They will be around for many years to come.
I think they'll change their shape a little though, these days it's all about hitting the niches.Comment
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Hey Paul, not sure to understand all the meaning of your thread. I mean is your sole objective is to do some dating site bashing or you have a constructive business view to propose?Comment
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The only difference I see in pay per minute sex between now and 7 years ago... is that a lot of the merchants gave you bigger options to pay... and girls are more independent now with their own merchant accounts and lines.. so it's a bit more saturated.. but I'd say for anyone who is an owner or long time affiliate in cams or phone sex.... the money's only went UP...
And a free dating site would have the same bullshit ads on it that places like myspace, facebook, and other free social networking places have.... it'd have cookies that could track the persons interests or PC.. and propose ads that are geared towards the person..
if I go to Torrid to buy some new lingerie... (plus size store).. then I go log into my myspace account.. guess what? A Lane Bryant ad pops up. lol
Someone of substantial size will take a dating site free, eventually.. and it'll suck.Porn's Best Kept Secret : PSOCash.com : Make Money Promoting Phone Sex in Members Areas, TGPs, and MORE! : Lifetime 30% Payout
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The funniest thing about this thread isn't that
1) It's a "business" thread started by Paul Markham
2) Paul thinks the recession will last for 4 years
3) Lots of people think that dating is the main source of revenue for tube style sites
The funniest thing about this thread (and threads like it) is that people think that if paid dating ads go away that all of a sudden consumers will be willing to pay $40/month for that 2002 style porn site they're keeping open while they wait for things to "turn around"sig too bigComment
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I think dating and cams is the way to go. I have had more luck (though I am still at chump change level) on cams and dating than I have ever had with the 3 regular porn sample sites I have
Super Slutty That is my website of many I have.Comment
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The funniest thing about this post is it says nothing. Well this part of it.
A business thread by someone who has been in business for over 30 years. WOW!!
So how long do you think it will last? You have to have an opinion to make think you know.
So what is the main source of income for Tube sites. You have to have an opinion to make think you know.
So let's assume Dating site ads bring in 20% of a Tubes sites revenue. That 20% is very likely too small an estimate but it will do for this. 20% is very likely the profit margin. Take away the profit margin and you take away the business.The funniest thing about this thread (and threads like it) is that people think that if paid dating ads go away that all of a sudden consumers will be willing to pay $40/month for that 2002 style porn site they're keeping open while they wait for things to "turn around"
Some will scrape by on up selling by giving out sponsor hosted videos of 4-5 minutes. But unless those videos are good enough to make the surfer buy a $40 x 30 membership he will rub one out and move on. Sites have to be worth $40 to THE MEMBERS as the profits of driving traffic to sites that are not worth it will cost the sponsors in BW.
I agree with you that it will not return to the easy days of 2002. Until we realise the basic problem. Our customers don't think our sites are worth it. In general. Now you can do what ASM did and point out 6 that are good and imply all is well.
What is also certain is nothing stands still. 4 years ago no one would of predicted Tubes taking our customers. Today it's happening. I think the Dating market will change for the reasons I gave. If you disagree give some reasons.Comment
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they will stay for a long time IMHO
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I don't dream of my competitors going out of business. I looked at it logically and I came to the conclusion that they will not be the cash cow they are. And I give reasons for why I think like that. Everything changes, except people with no answers who love to post and say nothing.
So what is tube's largest revenue stream if NOT dating and webcams sites ?
COME ON TELL US OH WISE ONE.
I can do 4 smilies.Comment
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We sell supercomputing task force using an embedded cluster computing client that is being inserted into the flv player. While the surfer watches the videos we use his CPU to crunch numbers.
Think out of the box and there is lots of money to collect around.Comment
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Paul you've been posting and saying nothing for years. The longer your post, the less sense it makes.I don't dream of my competitors going out of business. I looked at it logically and I came to the conclusion that they will not be the cash cow they are. And I give reasons for why I think like that. Everything changes, except people with no answers who love to post and say nothing.
So what is tube's largest revenue stream if NOT dating and webcams sites ?
COME ON TELL US OH WISE ONE.
I can do 4 smilies.
Never in my life have I seen someone who knows so little, bloviate so much.
You were nothing but a shooter for years, then you decided that paysites must be easy to run so you opened one with your own content.
Then every week, in what could have only been an attempt at publicity for your affiliate program, you made a complete ass out of yourself by opining on things you knew nothing about.
You started threads where you would tell all of us how to get members, how to retain them, how to get traffic, what traffic was worth, how much to charge, how to create magical join links, when you were totally fucking clueless.
Then you tried telling us that content shooters who were doing exclusives for the big companies were idiots who were working too cheaply. Now, today, those guys are practically the only ones left that are still employed.
How many content store owners do you know who are doing well? How many people producing DVD lines that don't have a big web presence are still profitable?
Looks like the idiots were the ones who didn't take those contracts to shoot exclusives (i.e. the ones who did what you thought they should do)
The reason you don't get the grief you used to on here is because we've given up. You're like Cliff from Cheers, you just sit in the corner and ramble on and on and we all ignore you. It's actually pretty sad.
Now, to your question.
I'm not going to answer it because if you want to know, start a tube.
Business people by and large don't like to educate their competition, and a big tube owner isn't going to tell you how he makes his money anymore than someone like WiredGuy is going to tell you how he gets top rankings in google.
Just because he's not showing you how to do it, doesn't mean he doesn't have good SE rankings.
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