makes no sense,won't happen...there's too much on the net that rebills are NEEDED to keep alive,no need to go any further than that
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ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message -
is this Visa USA or Visa International plan?
WATCH MORE PORN
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So you mean my monthly membership to SUPER CRAPPY TEEN MEGASITE won't automatically renew at $49.95 each month now?<a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>Comment
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Ahhh....the sweet smell of Denial.Originally posted by nocostporn
makes no sense,won't happen...there's too much on the net that rebills are NEEDED to keep alive,no need to go any further than that
You sound like Custer during Little Big Horn... famous quote:
"We got them!"
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one note:
I have noticed that auto bill pay systems (car, phone bill, electric bill) have been moving to a system which requires you to enroll by mail, requiring a signature on file. not all, but some. They could be ahead of the curve.Comment
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Originally posted by FATPad
So you mean my monthly membership to SUPER CRAPPY TEEN MEGASITE won't automatically renew at $49.95 each month now?
Comment
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Yeh, haven't we heard this before?Originally posted by Epoch
Curly here.
We have never heard of anything even remotely related to ending recurring billings.
Clay
EPOCH
Anyway, as mentioned, eliminating rebills will fuck over everybody in every industry. But, I could see them limiting it to high risk merchants.
Guys, don't panic. If this DOES happen, we'll find a solution. Does Discover have an anti-porn policy? Once everyone realizes that they NEED to use another form of payment to purchase porn, they will, trust me. The only replacement for porn is sex. Porn is both easier and cheaper to get, people will stick with porn.
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If Visa and Mastercard stop rebillings what will AOL and all the other major ISP's do that rebill every month automatically for Internet service?
I can not imagine the card processors changing that process, the entire Internet uses subscriptions for so many site apps.
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What's this? A hurdle in the path of webmasters who use deceptive practices to bilk customers for all they're worth? BALDERDASH!
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Originally posted by pimplink
Ahhh....the sweet smell of Denial.
You sound like Custer during Little Big Horn... famous quote:
"We got them!"
say byebye to AOL then,say byebye to the big programs losing a bazillion dollars in a day because they can't rebill their memberships that have been there for 8 months...never going to happen
Visa wants to make money,so they add a fee to use them,why in God's name would they counter-act that with shutting down rebills?CashTheChecks.com -coming soon-
"Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters"
ICQ-119966868,add me first don't messageComment
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I dont think they do away with rebills, but being purely speculative, they could require voice authorization and/or signatures on file. example would be you sign up for aol online and at the end of the process you have to call an 800 number to activate your account.Originally posted by nocostporn
say byebye to AOL then,say byebye to the big programs losing a bazillion dollars in a day because they can't rebill their memberships that have been there for 8 months...never going to happen
Visa wants to make money,so they add a fee to use them,why in God's name would they counter-act that with shutting down rebills?Comment
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the absolute farthest it will go is,once it's time for your rebill you get an email with a re-activation link..I don't know about the security in that...but still, I never see anything being more drastic than thatOriginally posted by PureMeds
I dont think they do away with rebills, but being purely speculative, they could require voice authorization and/or signatures on file. example would be you sign up for aol online and at the end of the process you have to call an 800 number to activate your account.
You people can obviously see why Visa/Mastercard are adding these fee's right? They just want more money!,which isn't a bad thing.They wouldnt do something to LOSE money in regards to rebills...common sense here peopleCashTheChecks.com -coming soon-
"Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters"
ICQ-119966868,add me first don't messageComment
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This is something that I could live with and really not a bad idea to have a voice authorization on file. I believe this is widely practiced in the telemarketing field now.Originally posted by PureMeds
I dont think they do away with rebills, but being purely speculative, they could require voice authorization and/or signatures on file. example would be you sign up for aol online and at the end of the process you have to call an 800 number to activate your account.Comment
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say it aint soComment
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This visa/mc whining is seriously old.
Next year when the justice dept cuts them down (visa and mc), it will make room for other credit card processors. Right now both visa and mc hold a monopoly on credit card processing and lots of other credit card companies are fighting this. I predict huge changes in credit card processing *in general* in the next few years.
So fuck visa anyhow. They can suck a nut. I'll process straight check transactions until another card/bank pops up that will be more suitable for adult processing.
Porn will never go away. They tried to make booze illegal years ago too, see how well that worked?Comment
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Hi,
We have heard of no such regulations. It has been a rumor for a long time.
However, anything can happen at anytime as you all have recently seen and Mastercard could easily say "no more rebilling for IPSPs and 5967 merchants without effecting mainstream internet companies at all".
Mitch
Mitch Farber
CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!Comment
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DV: Exactly! But ya know I heard rumors about what's happening now and everyone said, "No way!" It could happen and of course they'll wait until the last fucking minute then give you 30 days to comply.Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
yet another freaking topic,this rumour has been around for many years. I don't think it will happen and i'm not willing to cry until it does.
In the adult industry you MUST diversify!SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Posted by Mitch:
_______________________________________________
Hi,
We have heard of no such regulations. It has been a rumor for a long time.
However, anything can happen at anytime as you all have recently seen and Mastercard could easily say "no more rebilling for IPSPs and 5967 merchants without effecting mainstream internet companies at all".
Mitch
__________________________________________________ _
Probably the only 100% truthful and substantive post.
Folks, unless somebody bands together here to get some SERIOUS legal representation with BALLS the size of King Kong's, there will only be more and more trouble on the horizon.
Of course, this is what they are banking on. They expect everyone here to scatter like roaches once the lights are on.
Make no mistake, they are switching on the lights.........
Like it or not, so far we have acted like roaches........Comment
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People are saying AOL this, Electric bill that,
You must have forgot most new rules are only applying to HIGH RISK MERCHANTS.
AOL is not high risk,
electric bills are not high risk.
Adult porn is high risk
Casino is high risk.
this *can* happen and if it will happen, it will only affect high risk merchants only.
Don't compare apples with oranges.millionare by 18 , beat that hOESComment
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CCbill just put alot of work in to launch their new rebill system, don't think they would have done that if..
Can't the big processors and the mega sites companies
generating billions start a bank and new special creditcard
for online entertainment. All sites should promote the card
and maybe after 2-3 years the card is as big a visa on the porn sites.
JeromanComment
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That's what i told you since this fucking war against us begun, BAND TOGETHER AND FIGHT!
They want us EXTINCT, this is and AssKroft plot!
Jihaaaaaadd!!!!!!WE ARE ALL ONE CIRCLE, NO BEGINNING, NO END.Comment
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just noticed hitman699 and mitch said the same point
sorry for the repeat!
millionare by 18 , beat that hOESComment
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More on the issue:
-------------------------------------------
We heard that directly from Visa and Mastercard. It comes with the new Visa 3D Secure System and the equivalent security system from Mastercard. They want to introduce that next year. But as I told you, we have no specific date yet.
I heard the same from CCBill...
Regards,
Roli
globoSALE.net
-----------------------------------------------WE ARE ALL ONE CIRCLE, NO BEGINNING, NO END.Comment
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Since our name was mentioned
CCbill has no reason to believe this rumor at all. I can also say that I have never talked to Roli from globoSALE.net regarding this issue either.
The only time that I have ever heard a bank talk about removing rebills from a customer was if their CB could not be controlled.
Ron C
CEO, CCbill.comComment
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well, i find it hard to believe that rebilling will be outlawed altogether.
however, my guess is that when this new system is introduced, all existing rebills may have to be canceled and the surfers may have to sign up again using the new system. after that things should get back to normal.Last edited by The Machine; 10-17-2002, 11:24 AM.Complex, large-scale, multi-platform custom programming.
icq # 106 769 997Comment
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Originally posted by cherrylula
I've used non recurring billing for a while already. I have had some members spend MORE with non-recurring than they would with one recurring month.
Give them a few days pass, make it no less than $15. I have charged as much as $25 for two days non recurring and did great.
I've always though of it this way...Would you want to pay a monthly membership to a strip club as you would to lets say a gym membership? I think most would say no. However make the cover at the strip club pricey, and if you run a good business you will have guys in line no less than once a week (well depending on your updates, etc). Non-recurring memberships convert way better than any trial as there is NO commitment involved. No cancellation crap either.
But this makes me wonder.... doesn't AOL count as "recurring billing???"
btw--has anyone been out into the real world lately to buy porn??? Its fucking expensive!!! And its shitty mainstream porn! There are such awesome sex sites around now, original stuff.... and they are charging pennies a day. Time to change and raise membership prices all around, IMO.
Elegant solution.
Was it mainstream or niche site? Do you have any stats on how many times average active customer returned to resubscribe?.
.
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__________________________________________________
CCbill has no reason to believe this rumor at all. I can also say that I have never talked to Roli from globoSALE.net regarding this issue either.
The only time that I have ever heard a bank talk about removing rebills from a customer was if their CB could not be controlled.
Ron C
CEO, CCbill.com
_________________________________________________
Ron, I have been around this business since '95 and have used your company for many many years. I think you have provided a fine service and hopefully you will continue to do so.
Whether or not the topic at hand is a rumor or not, I can't tell you.
You say it isn't true and I will gladly believe you. This is not the issue however. The real issue is that every so often they decide to "squeeze" the industry with a bunch of new regulations.
And since 95 nobody has ever tried to truly stand up to them.
Just as I am meaningless to you, you too are virtually meaningless to them. You say jump and webmasters ask "how high?" Visa says jump and you guys get on a trampoline.
When a certain billing company fought back they were promised support by quite a few other similar companies. When the "rubber met the road" those others also scattered like roaches. This doesn't mean that CCBILL was one of those companies but this did happen.
Maybe you guys have enough money to retire. Maybe you have other plans for diversification.... Who knows? All I know is that I am trying to run a good honest businees and for 7 years now we have all been yanking each others' chains. Where does it end?
This is not a personal thing. It is not even a CCBILL issue.
This goes for Visa and each and every one of the billing companies; past, present and future.Comment
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to everyone that kept saying "just pay your goddamned $750 and be done with it cuz if you can't afford that you shouldn't be in business" when all this Visa shit first started:
I'm gonna remember those words for a long time comin'.
The first thing out the window was the $750, which quickly multipied times however many processors you intend to use. Now is multipying again because it looks like Mastercard wants a piece of it. and now yet again for the Paypal system.... Then all the downsides really started taking shape... all the ugly little details and new facts of life that come along with it, now brought to light... the US presence issues... now talk of the impending death of high risk rebills.
it just doesn't fucking end.
$750 huh? LOL...... $750 is the LEAST of your problems.
ol' Amp ain't often wrong about things..... and this fuckin' Visa shit has been RAPIDLY going straight to fuckin' Hell just as I said it would. Oh, we laughed, we had a good time, we poked the naysayers in the ribs and snickered at their panic over a mere $750....
still snickering?
SIG TOO BIGComment
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Unless this comes from a real representitive at a billing company that was heard of, I won't beleive it.
To many rumours everyday.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Just think, if the porn industry had acted responsibly all along, this wouldn't be happening. An industry that cannot regulate itself is in fact, forcing others to regulate it.
You can thank all the "big players" and "real companies" for this situation. Stop bitching at VISA, and start asking your "real companies" and the three big processors why they didn't do more to control themselves instead of pushing the limits until someone else was forced to rein everyone in.
It's funny watching everyone bitch about VISA/MC when we did this to ourselves.
<a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>Comment
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It's already way too easy to CB and deny rebilling that has been going on for SIX-EIGHT months. You can have all the info, phone, IP matches, etc. and they still can CB.
If anything they need a security system in place that helps reduce charge abuse for consumer and for merchants. Digital ID's or imprinting that reduces fraud.
RonC, I've been with CcBill a long long time, you know that and seen lots of changes both good and bad. With the new development and CCbills quick release of ehancements and solutions, are there any plans to offer solutions that prevent fraud yet don't filter out good customers through automation?
But hey since I have your attention explain to me why CCBill doesn't build a stronger traffic network for it's customers? Pop-ups, stats, customer service, etc. is all nice but the Horney bees project pretty much sucks. ( No traffic and hard to set-up) Why not develop a traffic exchange program that benefits "good merchants" and begin building a base/network of sites that provide ethical services.
Lately I almost get embrassed when someone ask me who I process with. Does CCbill realize what a bad rap their getting?
Curious & frustratedSIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Originally posted by FATPad
Just think, if the porn industry had acted responsibly all along, this wouldn't be happening. An industry that cannot regulate itself is in fact, forcing others to regulate it.
You can thank all the "big players" and "real companies" for this situation. Stop bitching at VISA, and start asking your "real companies" and the three big processors why they didn't do more to control themselves instead of pushing the limits until someone else was forced to rein everyone in.
It's funny watching everyone bitch about VISA/MC when we did this to ourselves.
DV: AMEN!
See article: http://www.avnonline.com/issues/2002...t0402_01.shtml
Written by MOI! people think I'm full of shit and dreaming becuase I want to make money, wake up and do the right thing. Is it a fucking illusion?SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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By FatPad
_________________________________________________
It's funny watching everyone bitch about VISA/MC when we did this to ourselves.
__________________________________________________
You make an excellent point. However, do you remember the days when people used to charge back 7 months of re-bills?
Seven months and Visa had no problem doing it!
The guilty parties in NO particular order:
1. Credit Card issuers
2. 3rd Party Billing
3. Webmasters
4. Irresponsible consumers as conditioned by #1
As far as cleaning up the the Internet I think membership sites do the least harm. There are tons of other places to look before the membership sites.Comment
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I remember those 7 month chargebacks. ;) I also know that VISA was conditioned by us to think we were scumbags with our billing methods, so they just learned to assume we were always in the wrong, because quite frankly, we were in the beginning.Originally posted by footguy
By FatPad
_________________________________________________
It's funny watching everyone bitch about VISA/MC when we did this to ourselves.
__________________________________________________
You make an excellent point. However, do you remember the days when people used to charge back 7 months of re-bills?
Seven months and Visa had no problem doing it!
The guilty parties in NO particular order:
1. Credit Card issuers
2. 3rd Party Billing
3. Webmasters
4. Irresponsible consumers as conditioned by #1
As far as cleaning up the the Internet I think membership sites do the least harm. There are tons of other places to look before the membership sites.<a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>Comment
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By FatPad
__________________________________________________
I remember those 7 month chargebacks. ;) I also know that VISA was conditioned by us to think we were scumbags with our billing methods, so they just learned to assume we were always in the wrong, because quite frankly, we were in the beginning.
__________________________________________________ __
Yeah maybe but in '94 when I helped someone with a BBS the excuse was " You don't have a signed sales receipt." I think consumers caught onto that premise and ran with it. Hey wait a second.... they're still running :-)Comment
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Yes...Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
still snickering?
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. MenckenComment
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Lets see... VISA has a new system in place which could make chargebacks disapear by april 2003 in the US? I guess they want adult sites to promote that system by that time - maybe thats why they are making it harder to use their current old system... adult sites will use the new system when its ready, so their rebills are not cancelled, joe surfer still needs his porn fix, so he will also sign up to visa verifed. Fine by me if VISA are really trying convince us to switch over to their "secure" system, but I think they better slow down with the onslaught of new rules before april 2003, or they may see that adult sites will drop visa from payment option #1 to #3-4
Before october most sites looked like this:
Payment Option #1 : VISA
Payment Option #2 : MasterCard
Payment Option #3 : ACH & Local Billing
Payment Option #4 : Dialer/Mobil
After november many sites will look like this:
Payment Option #1 : ACH & Local Billing
Payment Option #2 : VISA
Payment Option #3 : MasterCard
Payment Option #4 : Dialer/Mobil
And in the future (if VISA and MC continues without any clear longterm solution):
Payment Option #1 : ACH & Local Billing
Payment Option #2 : Dialer/Mobil
Payment Option #3 : VISA
Payment Option #4 : MasterCard
VISA/MC, if you read this (probably a few horny VISA/MC guys surfing the boards ), then say goodbye to world domination in the online payment sector... when mainstream sees what happende to adult, and how adult survied without VISA/MC as the #1 payment option, then they will follow - prehaps not in hordes, but enough to make your presence less and your card less attractive to the end user...
Comment
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In my humble opinion, rebilling was always a cheap way in the past for unscrupulous webmasters to milk money from users. Sure a tiny percentage of users wanted to rebill, but the majority did not.
If you really think a user wants to rebill (and what we can do now if this new rule is true), is just have a one click rebill link in our members areas. The user clicks on it and goes to the processor with all his info cept his CCinfo filled in and gets to extend his membership for another month.
It will reduce signups but if this is true, not much other choice.Comment
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I cannot believe you guys. Here is an European biller that tells you. I got information about something that will happen in the future and tells you so.
You just say can't be because I don't want it to be?
What would have happened if one biller said 6 month ago that new VISA regulations would be coming but noone knows when. You would have laughed the same way. The American billers lied to you over month and now you believe those guys? Would you spend 750 bucks to save your rebills when they would be gone in 3 month anyway or even 1750 if the MC fee turns out true? The billers are fighting for there existence right now.
Lets face it and turn to a new solution now or you guys will be panicing in a couple of month again.
I just recently signed up with globosale and I found them very professional. They operate from Switzerland the Banking country of the world, they might actually know something and if it is true I am for sure glad they shared that knowledge.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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First off (and I hope Mitch or Clay will correct me if I'm wrong), the new Visa regs DO NOT apply only to "high-risk" merchants; it's everybody.
Second, I'd be a lot more inclined to take Mr. ElDomino seriously if he hadn't already cut-and-pasted this very same thing onto another well-known board as "anonymous". Kinda killed your own credibility there, guy.
Third, I can't see any CC with a brain killing off rebills. I pay for my cable modem with a monthly rebill, for Pete's sake, as well as the online site my son uses for home schooling! This isn't about adult because, as has been stated on numerous occasions in several forums, adult processing is a very small percentage of Visa's business every month. Can you imagine the impact on them if they canceled 35 million AOL rebillers?!? AOL would have them in court so fast it wouldn't even be funny.
Just my
Morning everybody
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"Contributing factors in the growth of Visa global sales volume include:
An increase in the number of merchant outlets that accept Visa. For example, in the U.S., acceptance in quick service restaurants has grown by 60 percent while merchants that accept recurring payments, such as utility bills, have increased by 25 percent."
From http://corporate.visa.com/mc/press/press114.html
Adult or not... recurring means more business for VISA, and they know it
Last edited by Swap; 10-17-2002, 02:13 PM.Comment
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Next year press release from VISA, if adult and recurring is closed:
"Contributing factors in the decline of Visa global sales volume include:
A decrease in the number of merchant outlets that accept Visa. For example, in the U.S., acceptance in adult service has droped by 60 percent while adult merchants that accept recurring payments, such as online adult services, have decreased by 100 percent."
Couldn´t resist
VISA will not leave adult - they need us to replace cash
Comment
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All 3 major processors came on this thread and said that they have never heard anything of the sort. This thread is dead!!!
If it does happen:
double cost of trials, more quarterly and yearly membership options(way cheaper), increase dialers and checks... and start a personal bill paying service
Comment
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Don´t forget - "decress free adult content"Originally posted by JConway
double cost of trials, more quarterly and yearly membership options(way cheaper), increase dialers and checks... and start a personal bill paying service
Comment
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anyone get independent confirmation on this??? I emailed globosale but no response yet.Comment
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Originally posted by Dianna Vesta
DV: Exactly! But ya know I heard rumors about what's happening now and everyone said, "No way!" It could happen and of course they'll wait until the last fucking minute then give you 30 days to comply.
In the adult industry you MUST diversify!
Everyone said no way? I disagree. Some people have been saying things were getting tighter and there was more coming without being Chicken Littles for oh, six to nine months now.
Everyone thank the scammers you know, so long as they stay in the business, it will only get tighter.Comment
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1) I assume most consumers consume daily.Originally posted by pimplink
You're right. There will definitely be a "flight to quality." Most smaller, marginal sites will die. But even then, the end of automatic rebills will really minimize income across the board because you're adding extra effort to the porn consumption process.
People will probably buy porn on an "as needed" basis instead of the pretty much automatic method [via rebills] we have now.
2) I find the idea that one picture is as good as the next laughable. People have likes and dislikes. This is why they will keep coming back to the sites they like.
3) When you are serving a niche, the pricing of the product is considerably less susceptible to the price-shopping of those whose tastes are very general and unthought-out. The sites who consistently offer a particular kind of product (which can be defined in various ways: by fetish, by photographer, by type of model, etc.) are the ones who will benefit. The ones at risk are the very general sites, because they have little to distinguish themselves from the rest. THEY are the ones who are going to be most susceptible to the price shoppers.
4) "Per signup" will become more important than recurring income and those that need it to get signups for their site, will have to compete hard with those who provide it.
5) Search engines and review sites will become ever more important as traffic generators.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Wenchy,
The Visa registration fees are for MCC 5967 high risk merchants only.
Thank you, Mitch Farber
Mitch Farber
CEO - NETbilling, Inc.
Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456
Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!Comment
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yes, the mighty 3 have spoken... might as well be carved into a stone tablet now.Originally posted by JConway
All 3 major processors came on this thread and said that they have never heard anything of the sort. This thread is dead!!!
SIG TOO BIGComment
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Fuck. This better not happen. I own the domain rebills.com
I will be ruined.
Comment
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