More problems: VISA/MC Forbidding REBILLS!!! - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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El Demonio

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#1

More problems: VISA/MC Forbidding REBILLS!!!

10-17-2002, 07:03 AM

Just got this from my processor:

Please note the following:
There will be some changes to the credit card procedure shortly.
Due to new implemented security systems from Visa and Mastercard it won't be possible to do recurring billings anymore.
New regulations will make it necessary that credit card information will be directly entered on the Visa/Mastercard system. Therefore we won't have any credit card information in our system anymore and therefore we will be unable to do rebillings.
At the moment there's no specific date known when Visa/Mastercard will implement this new procedure but they already informed us that this will come shortly. I've also heard the same from IBill and CCBill. This will enforce massive changes to the adult entertainment (no recurring billings anymore).

Regards,
Roli
globoSALE.net

WE ARE ALL ONE CIRCLE, NO BEGINNING, NO END.
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Calvinguy

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#2

10-17-2002, 07:05 AM

Ohh shit.....
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#3

10-17-2002, 07:05 AM

who in the hell is Globosale?

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ControlThy

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#4

10-17-2002, 07:05 AM

I have heard of no such thing from any respectable source.

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quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

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#5

10-17-2002, 07:06 AM

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
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SunTzu

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#6

10-17-2002, 07:11 AM

can anyone confirm this? i haven't received shit about it.

IF it's true, check sales are going to become mighty popular...

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El Demonio

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#7

10-17-2002, 07:18 AM

Globosale is a biller in Europe

Ok, let's start finding info, Mithc@netbilling please report in!, the 3 stooges what do you say!, PSW, WSB talk!

And let's start finding solutions, one can be to rise the prices to double.

Now is becoming much more clear that the visa/mc regs were only the first step to kill online porn, this is deliberate!

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ServerGenius

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#8

10-17-2002, 07:22 AM

I have heard this aswell from several sources....not confirmed by
any of the billers yet.....but it will be the logical next step....
I heard this from several reliable collegues who run paysites.

Aswell as a friend who works for a european biller.....off
the record of course......I repeat not officially confirmed but if
if there is smoke there should be fire.

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Theo

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#9

10-17-2002, 07:23 AM

bullshit
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Mark

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#10

10-17-2002, 07:24 AM

Damn... if thats true its gonna create a huge impact on the industry..

Ummm.. anyone looking for a good dialer?
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SunTzu

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#11

10-17-2002, 07:29 AM

You know, even if this isn't true NOW, it probably would be sooner or later. With all the abuse rebills get, that doesn't surprise me.

So...

Lets bust out all the alternative billing ideas...

Gtalk and email :: sd at tabu.com
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hjnet

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#12

10-17-2002, 07:30 AM

Who cares??? Then I´m going to us Per Signup Sponsors
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Theo

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#13

10-17-2002, 07:32 AM

yet another freaking topic,this rumour has been around for many years. I don't think it will happen and i'm not willing to cry until it does.
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Manga1

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#14

10-17-2002, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by hjnet
Who cares??? Then I´m going to us Per Signup Sponsors

You think per signup sponsors will pay you the same if they can't rebill?
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hjnet

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#15

10-17-2002, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by Manga1

You think per signup sponsors will pay you the same if they can't rebill?

HeHe
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Calvinguy

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#16

10-17-2002, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by hjnet
Who cares??? Then I´m going to us Per Signup Sponsors

And do you think they will continue with no rebills?
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quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

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#17

10-17-2002, 07:35 AM

too many rebills!!

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
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DrGuile

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#18

10-17-2002, 07:35 AM

I think the main here is:

Who the fuck is Globosale?

and on the same topic

who's El Demonio?

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Nina

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#19

10-17-2002, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
yet another freaking topic,this rumour has been around for many years. I don't think it will happen and i'm not willing to cry until it does.

I'm with you. I really don't think it's in anyone's best interest to stop rebills.

Instead of all this stupidity, they just need to crack down on the crooks, pure and simple.
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El Demonio

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#20

10-17-2002, 07:37 AM

Some ideas:

-Online checks
-rebilling Web900 (Ibill is working on it)
-raise the prices to double on visa/mc cards
-intl dialers (0 chargeback)
-enforce the use of other cards like amex/diners, etc...Europe billers can take amex/carte blanche/diners/atm cards

One thing that could help is posting in tyour join page that if the surfer uses visa/mc his statement will read: $29.95 - IBL - bigdickedgays.com

WE ARE ALL ONE CIRCLE, NO BEGINNING, NO END.
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kmanrox

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#21

10-17-2002, 07:37 AM

if this is true, our industry is destroyed.

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Nina

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#22

10-17-2002, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by kmanrox
if this is true, our industry is destroyed.

Please... people will still need their porn no matter what. We would just need to be inventive, that's all.
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jockboy60

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#23

10-17-2002, 07:40 AM

so are a lot of other industries, such as web hosting...... it's not just adult sites that rely on it.

Read my blog about my "marketing experiments" and whether they succeed or fail. http://www.mymarketingexperiment.com
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Epoch

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#24

10-17-2002, 07:42 AM

Curly here.

We have never heard of anything even remotely related to ending recurring billings.

Clay
EPOCH
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Tipsy

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#25

10-17-2002, 07:42 AM

That wouldn't just have an effect on the adult industry were it to become reality. An awful lot of card holders will be pissed with the CC companies too. I subscribe to several things online that I'm very happy to pay for each month and to have to remember to renew them all each month would just piss me off.

Certainly I'd be looking for a card and/or a method where I could maintain my subscriptions without having to re-join every month rather than continuing to use VISA or mastercard.

Ignorance is never bliss.
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Manga1

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#26

10-17-2002, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by Epoch
Curly here.

We have never heard of anything even remotely related to ending recurring billings.

Clay
EPOCH

LOL Where's Larry and Moe?
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hjnet

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#27

10-17-2002, 07:43 AM

To be serious again, I guess those dialer-guys would be happy. And the more paysites start to use dialers the more "Non-Adult"-Kids will get access to paysites (every kid can use a dialer, but only a few steal the CC from their daddy). So it´s a complet wrong way, not only from "porn-biz"-point of view.
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Petr

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#28

10-17-2002, 07:44 AM

Clay, any info on VISA 3-D Secure program?

http://www.international.visa.com/fb/paytech/secure/
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El Demonio

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#29

10-17-2002, 07:45 AM

Thanks Curly,

What about Larry and Moe?

WE need to find out if this is true or not, to get prepared ASAP

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Rich J.

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#30

10-17-2002, 07:45 AM

I'm taking this with a grain of salt untill I hear something official... Keep in mind if rebills stop then AOL would loose its entire customer base. Highly unlikely.

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funkmaster

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#31

10-17-2002, 07:48 AM

... and the joke of the day award goes to
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El Demonio
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#32

10-17-2002, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by Manga1

You think per signup sponsors will pay you the same if they can't rebill?

lol great answer but funny thing he said

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Epoch

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#33

10-17-2002, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Petr
Clay, any info on VISA 3-D Secure program?

http://www.international.visa.com/fb/paytech/secure/

EPOCH is a 3D Secure compliant merchant, the only problem is that the 3D secure program has not hit critical mass with the card issuers and card holders being enrolled in the program. More importantly, for US merchants the rules do not go into effect to prohibit chargebacks until April 2003.

Clay
EPOCH
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#34

10-17-2002, 07:54 AM

By the way most credit card companies sell services they rely on rebills

Credit Report Scanning
Credit Card Insurance

So many more things

I am about to add a link on my signup page

"Can't Afford $24.95? Click here to go to DiTech.com"

Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING

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Petr

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#35

10-17-2002, 07:54 AM

Thanks for the info, Clay
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ControlThy

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#36

10-17-2002, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Epoch

EPOCH is a 3D Secure compliant merchant, the only problem is that the 3D secure program has not hit critical mass with the card issuers and card holders being enrolled in the program. More importantly, for US merchants the rules do not go into effect to prohibit chargebacks until April 2003.

Clay
EPOCH

This looks similair to the "Wallet" system from Mastercard EU.
Am I correct?

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cherrylula

lol

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#37

10-17-2002, 07:58 AM

I've used non recurring billing for a while already. I have had some members spend MORE with non-recurring than they would with one recurring month.

Give them a few days pass, make it no less than $15. I have charged as much as $25 for two days non recurring and did great.

I've always though of it this way...Would you want to pay a monthly membership to a strip club as you would to lets say a gym membership? I think most would say no. However make the cover at the strip club pricey, and if you run a good business you will have guys in line no less than once a week (well depending on your updates, etc). Non-recurring memberships convert way better than any trial as there is NO commitment involved. No cancellation crap either.

But this makes me wonder.... doesn't AOL count as "recurring billing???"

btw--has anyone been out into the real world lately to buy porn??? Its fucking expensive!!! And its shitty mainstream porn! There are such awesome sex sites around now, original stuff.... and they are charging pennies a day. Time to change and raise membership prices all around, IMO.

Last edited by cherrylula; 10-17-2002, 08:06 AM.
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#38

10-17-2002, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by El Demonio
Just got this from my processor:

Please note the following:
There will be some changes to the credit card procedure shortly.
Due to new implemented security systems from Visa and Mastercard it won't be possible to do recurring billings anymore.
New regulations will make it necessary that credit card information will be directly entered on the Visa/Mastercard system. Therefore we won't have any credit card information in our system anymore and therefore we will be unable to do rebillings.
At the moment there's no specific date known when Visa/Mastercard will implement this new procedure but they already informed us that this will come shortly. I've also heard the same from IBill and CCBill. This will enforce massive changes to the adult entertainment (no recurring billings anymore).

Regards,
Roli
globoSALE.net

BULLSHIT, if its the case, I am going to court & sue the fuckers!!!
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pornjudge

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#39

10-17-2002, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by pornjudge

BULLSHIT, if its the case, I am going to court & sue the fuckers!!!

I did not notice the signature at bottom of your post, This processor is in Europe & is not affected by the new regulations, nice try idiot!!
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DrewKole

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#40

10-17-2002, 08:09 AM

Blame it on the spamming dickheads and the scammers who are fucking over surfers in general.

Today isn't 3 years ago... can't get away with the same shit, and people don't know how to do anything in moderation.
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Dax

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#41

10-17-2002, 08:16 AM

That can not go into effect.

BECAUSE:

None of the isp's will be able to charge me on a recurring basis, you mean AOL, MSN, etc.. will not be able to charge me $20 every month and if I want to continue service I have to imput my card every end of the month?

That also means that my electric bill, water, phone or any other utility CAN NOT be paid automatically because they are ot allowed to keep my CC info?? I mean, CC companies promote that like crazy.

When you look at the ammount of transactions, that would REALLY mean a big blow in fees, I mean is not like all the ppl who do that in aggregate is chump change.

Then again, if Visa is not there where is it?? Everywher you want to be... right

Don't freak yall!!
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Jizar II

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#42

10-17-2002, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by hjnet
Who cares??? Then I´m going to us Per Signup Sponsors
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pimplink

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#43

10-17-2002, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
bullshit

Exactly.

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Theo

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#44

10-17-2002, 08:19 AM

im going to gym,until i return Drewkole you have enough time to name us at least the scammers.
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Epoch

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#45

10-17-2002, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by ControlThy

This looks similair to the "Wallet" system from Mastercard EU.
Am I correct?

It's not a wallet system it is a cardholder authentication process.

This is how it works in steps.

1. Cardholder enrolls with his issuing bank and selects a password and catch phrase.

2. Cardholder makes purchase on 3D secure enabled site.

3. Once cardholder hits submit, payment processor queries VISA directoy to see if the issuing bank is enrolled in the 3D secure program

4. If enrolled then payment processor queries the issuing banks Access Control Server to see if the cardholder has enrolled.

5. If the cardholder is enrolled then a pop up box is delivered through the browser by the Access Control Server asking the cardholder for their password. Which they then enter and submit.

6. The payment processor is then notified by the Access Control Server if in fact the password matched that of the cardholder.

As of Oct. of this year if you can get a password match through this process then the cardholder cannot chargeback under the "i didn't do it" category.

Starting is April 2003, if a cardholder attempts to do a transaction and we the merchant are 3D secured enabled and either the issuer is not setup to process 3D secure transactions OR the cardholder is not enrolled in the program then they still cannot chargeback just like the above.

There is a recurring billing portion to 3D secure as well that assists in chargeback protection on recurring payments.

Just to note that MC has now recetly adopted a system like VISA. Prior to this adoption they were going with a totally different and more complex system called SPA.

Clay
EPOCH
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hitman699

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#46

10-17-2002, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Rich J.
I'm taking this with a grain of salt untill I hear something official... Keep in mind if rebills stop then AOL would loose its entire customer base. Highly unlikely.

Well is AOL considered one of the "high Risk" people even effected by these fee's. I dont think though I may be wrong. I think visa would find a way to restrict just porn rebills. Who exactly falls in to the high risk merchant account catagory other then us and I think it was travel agents.

BTW
Thank your senators for all the great work on bankruptcy reform because they stuck it to us via proxy
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hjnet

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#47

10-17-2002, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Jizar II

How was that story about bright candles on the x-mas tree???
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UnseenWorld

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#48

10-17-2002, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by DrewKole
Blame it on the spamming dickheads and the scammers who are fucking over surfers in general.

Today isn't 3 years ago... can't get away with the same shit, and people don't know how to do anything in moderation.

How horrible! In a while the whole industry will consist only of sites good enough that people will re-enroll every time their password stops working. The auto-rebill thing has always been a bit of a scam, since it was mostly based on getting money from people who forgot to cancel. Put up a site so good that most of the members can't wait to log in and when they can't log in, they will resubscribe. Simple as that. As far as rewarding referrers, I'm sure that is merely a soluble programming problem.

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pimplink

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#49

10-17-2002, 09:01 AM

Maybe the anti porn crusaders can shut down the industry this way. Using obscenity laws is too hard of a route and you have to go region by region. Using CP laws RIGHTFULLY nabs scumbags--too small % of this biz to make the civil conservatives happy.

So, the only alternatives are: 1) Copyright law 2)Using FTC to pressure CC companies to minimize the "facilitation of fraud"

But there's good news. If the government tries 1 or 2 there's enough Supreme Court precedent to show that Government cannot hide behind "neutral" laws to prohibit specific speech. The holding of the case City of Hialeah vs. Leukumi Babalu Aye [holding that City's anti animal slaughter statute was a thinly veiled attempt to outlaw Santeria] can be extended to legal maneuvers above.

The bad news is that it seems that there seems to be no pressure from the FTC and that Visa/MC's actions are completely voluntary to protect their customers/bottom line.

We'll see..........

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pimplink

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#50

10-17-2002, 09:04 AM

You're right. There will definitely be a "flight to quality." Most smaller, marginal sites will die. But even then, the end of automatic rebills will really minimize income across the board because you're adding extra effort to the porn consumption process.

People will probably buy porn on an "as needed" basis instead of the pretty much automatic method [via rebills] we have now.

Originally posted by UnseenWorld

How horrible! In a while the whole industry will consist only of sites good enough that people will re-enroll every time their password stops working. The auto-rebill thing has always been a bit of a scam, since it was mostly based on getting money from people who forgot to cancel. Put up a site so good that most of the members can't wait to log in and when they can't log in, they will resubscribe. Simple as that. As far as rewarding referrers, I'm sure that is merely a soluble programming problem.

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