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How many times will people make this stupid suggestion
telling the difference between nudity and non nudity (youtube version of this arguement)
crappy video vs non crappy video (this version )
or any of the other versions
can be done with any $5 /day grunt
telling weather a video is "is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent or the law " requires a highly skilled lawyer.
IF 33% of all DMCA request wrongfully take down authorized content (by fair use) and those statements are drafted by highly qualified lawyers ($300/hour )
Even if you prove they could monitor against crappy videos ($5/day) they could still claim that monitoring for copyright infringment ($300/hour ) is cost prohibitive.
“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve WozniakComment
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Finally some took a step against those fuckers!Comment
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RK are far from being "fuckers"
I do not agree with financing tubes, but I wonder how much money did they pay to the webmasters over the years..
Well, why not to behave retarded, if most behave retarded.
I understand.Need hosting, cloud, CDN or solutions for your AI? Go faster while saving with The Last Host you'll ever need!| Double Impact PR | Telegram carl_boro | Read My Educational Series | Read my Adult Biz Chronicles|Comment
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Lets clear this up right now. The lawsuit has NOTHING to do with copyright issues or TR content on the site. So stop speculating on "no win copyright lawsuits" it has nothing to with it.Comment
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the crux of the case is... Say u own a starbucks and coffee bean opens up right next to you, but coffee beans just gives away all their coffee foe free with the intent of shutting down starbucks. Once starbucks closes coffee beans starts charging for their coffee. It called unfair competion and califtinia is very liberal with this. Now if you 30k prepay is now attached to a 50k lawsuit then of will make advertising with an illegal tube not even worth it, not to mention the hosting company now with a 50 page complaint now they must answer to. Tube profit margins are already very thin. Throw in a good legal fight and the whole cookie crumbles. Just my opinion.
Posted from iPhoneLast edited by xxxjay; 04-04-2009, 01:54 PM.Comment
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if that is the basis of this case, count down to when this loses starts right now.
I really hope teen revenue is not this stupid. because the second part of the equation (charging more when the company goes out of business) doesn't apply. many a website in RK portfolio (backroom facials) still show up on the tube sites and torrent sites and they have not charged more money for them. They are still free.
That proves this is an evolutionary change in the business model
so teen revenue is a buggy whip salesman complaining about lost sales because of the car.
“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve WozniakComment
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Free porn tube sites should go down in flames!
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Thunder-Ball.net - MemberComment
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and if you could PROVE THAT, the safe harbor provision would not even apply.
the problem is that scraping another site gets you your base of videos, without violating your safe harbor provision (you inherit it from the scrapped site) so only an idiot would manually upload the videos to his site.
“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve WozniakComment
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You know that and I know that, but unless you can prove it in a court of law it's meaningless.
I don't really think Jay's unfair competition argument holds water unless Redtube is based in California.
California's intrastate commerce laws can hardly be applied to every website in the world.
Bottom line is, anyone can file a lawsuit. Just because a suit was filed doesn't mean it has merit.
Just because you and I as reasonable people can agree that something is wrong, doesn't mean that it's not protected by the law.
Just like if a burglar breaks into my house, slips on my kid's skateboard. and breaks his arm.
He can sue me and he will win, and I'll have to pay his medical bills and pain and suffering.
While we all know this is morally wrong, it's just the way the law is. The tube site situation in regards to DMCA is also one of those same types of situations.
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Back to the point of this not changing anything....if TR wins, and gets so much in damages that it puts redtube out of business, how is that going to affect your business?
Answer: It won't
No amount of lawsuits (or even kneecap shooting for that matter) are going to bring back your 1998 ratios or your 2002 volume. This is just the way things are now, deal with it.sig too bigComment
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The unfair completion isn't my argument it is Teen Revenue's. They are doing business in California, so they have to answer the case here. Another angle is they don't have to keep 2257 records. We have the FBI at our office almost 2 years ago and we emerged squeaky clean. Why should have have to be on our P and Q's and Redtube can just say "Fuck it"?You know that and I know that, but unless you can prove it in a court of law it's meaningless.
I don't really think Jay's unfair competition argument holds water unless Redtube is based in California.
California's intrastate commerce laws can hardly be applied to every website in the world.
Bottom line is, anyone can file a lawsuit. Just because a suit was filed doesn't mean it has merit.
Just because you and I as reasonable people can agree that something is wrong, doesn't mean that it's not protected by the law.
Just like if a burglar breaks into my house, slips on my kid's skateboard. and breaks his arm.
He can sue me and he will win, and I'll have to pay his medical bills and pain and suffering.
While we all know this is morally wrong, it's just the way the law is. The tube site situation in regards to DMCA is also one of those same types of situations.
It's unfair.Comment
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Maybe not just Redtube, but if the full length illegal tubes go away, ratios will pick back up. How many millions of people are now used to jerking off to 30 minute clips? You think they can go back short trailers again? Not to mention all the casual porn surfers who are now borderline addicted or have been exposed to new niches they now crave.
Not that it will happen, but if illegal full length tube sites went away tomorrow I bet you would see a huge increase in membership sales.jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs ConvertComment
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if you scrapped (including the user upload info) the court have ruled that still is protected
technically you are creating a secondary cache of the user uploaded content on that site.
so far it only been tested with automatic scrapping, so it could be illegal if you did it manually, but as the law is currently written, it more like 70/30 bet in favour of that being upheld too.
“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve WozniakComment
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Not to mention that you can bury those tube sites in legal fees. It's extremely expensive to fight multiple lawsuits.Comment
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Who ever said that RedTube doesn't have to keep 2257 records?
Just because they don't keep them doesn't mean they're "allowed to not keep them". They never got a permission slip from the FBI for being a tube site.
If they're located outside of the U.S., then that's another matter entirely. There are lots of laws that they're not subject to. On the other hand they may be subject to local laws that you don't have to worry about.
Who ever said life was fair? It's not fair that European companies are allowed to have higher chargeback ratios than American companies, but I haven't seen anyone suing over it. (I'm sure someone thought about it, but the odds of winning are slim and none)
If they can win, more power to them. I just don't think they will.
The RIAA won alot of lawsuits, but the only thing that helped the music industry was partnering with iTunes, and that's a fact.sig too bigComment
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Like I said, TR winning this lawsuit won't change your business a bit.
The fantasy you just put forth will never happen. One lawsuit against one tube, even if it's won, doesn't put all tubes out of business.
Also, how does having full length movies make a tube site "illegal"?
If they're using content they don't have a license to use that's one thing, but there are tens of thousands of scenes available for license that can be given away on a tube...and they don't cost much money because content providers are starving these days.
So sure, maybe a copyright owner can sue the shit out of people to keep their content from being posted, ala Perfect 10 or Suze Randall (hell I might get sued just for posting their names here). But nobody is going to be able to sue their way to profitability or stop the proliferation of free content on the web.
People have been screaming about this since the internet began, and I imagine they'll still be screaming about it 10 years from now....but I have yet to see a company litigate it's way to being relevant in the current marketplace.sig too bigComment
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Every content owner I know that has ever whored out their content now regrets it. The tubes have already hit in the production level. Nobody in LA is filming even half as much as they used to.
Obviously, you sell cheap hosting to these guys, so I can see your biased.Comment
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I don't sell hosting, the sig is a favor for a host that has gone above and beyond for me.
I'm in the same business as you. At least on the affiliate/webmaster side. My margins have shriveled just like yours.
I just try to stay objective about things. I try to see them how they really are and not just through the lens of my own experience or for how they effect my business.
Why is it that anyone who says anything other than "death to the tubes" must be either stupid or have a vested interest in an "illegal" tube?sig too bigComment
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Why would they have to have a vested invest in illegal tubes? I will say it again mark my words,this cant sustain its getting beyond crazy. Government will start filtering us off the web. Porn survived all these years because it was in backrooms and in places kids didnt have access to.Hardcore pornography was never meant to be given away,like old episodes on hulu.Comment
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In fact they have to, otherwise you could upload bestiality, cp etc.
That is illegal by law by default.
If someone uploads copyrighted content - and I know they most likely have monkeys uploading new ripped video almost every hour to keep it updated, you have DMCA to cover it.
They even upload ripped DVD's without watermarks or buy cheap licenses from monkey producers, who don't understand that a give away license not only devaluates the content they just sold, but that it also devaluates any other content they will ever produce or any other content in general, that if fucks up the overall general demand for porn.
Unfortunately, retardation and idiocy in this "industry" is a safe bet.
Well maybe it will be good, maybe many will run out of business and then they'll actually realize they are what they would always be if there wasn't porn - bums.Need hosting, cloud, CDN or solutions for your AI? Go faster while saving with The Last Host you'll ever need!| Double Impact PR | Telegram carl_boro | Read My Educational Series | Read my Adult Biz Chronicles|Comment
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The thing I'm afraid of is, if you can't beat the wolves you start with beating the dogs in your garden..
So more regulation will mean more shit for porn in general, it will not be the ingenious scenario, that all the sites showing free porn they don' thave rights to show would be blocked from US ISP's, government doesn't care if the gang rape gagging scene is "legal" or "stolen".
Let's talk about promo materials showing hardcore pornography
Let's talk about pay site tours
...
It works like this in Germany already, you can't show hardcore unless someone pays and verifies his age, but even they're not able to shut down the free porn sites, local movers and shakers reporting serious decline in salesLast edited by CarlosTheGaucho; 04-04-2009, 08:34 PM.Need hosting, cloud, CDN or solutions for your AI? Go faster while saving with The Last Host you'll ever need!| Double Impact PR | Telegram carl_boro | Read My Educational Series | Read my Adult Biz Chronicles|Comment
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was googling some pornstar names and was blown away how many tubes there now.Comment
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People who say this always seem to forget that it's the WORLD wide web, not the AMERICAN wide web.
The rest of the civilized world doesn't have a stick up their ass about porn the way Americans do....and American regulations only affect Americans.
How many of the big tubes do you think are currently incorporated and hosted in the U.S.?
How many do you think will be incorporated and hosted here if what you're predicting comes true?
It won't make a bit of difference.
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Just to be clear, I didn't say full length videos=illegal tube. I just said full length illegal tubes are the problem. That was a qualifying statement since I have no problem with the tube delivery method. If a content producer wants to sell out out to a tube, I have no problem with that either. I think it's short sighted, but I have no problem with it.
It's not the bargain basement non-exclusive content that is keeping the tubes in business. It's the fresh content that is and they burn through more than any paysite could ever keep up with by adding ten or more full scenes a day. If you remove the stolen fresh content they will have much less impact as surfers would grow tired of the same recycled cheap content.
But I agree with Tony, the government will have a say sooner or later. With tube8 having scat videos and piss videos on their homepage almost daily, some Senator is going to get a bug up his ass and it's going to be very hard to defend or try to claim that the tube sites are actually hated by the majority of legitimate porn producers. The public will see it all as one.
And yes, it's not the American world wide web but last time I checked, the most porn is produced here so what happens here does effect the rest of the porn world. The same way when our economy hurts, all of Europe does too.Last edited by mynameisjim; 04-04-2009, 08:56 PM.jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs ConvertComment
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It is actually possible to ban these sites from US ISP's, US search engines etc.People who say this always seem to forget that it's the WORLD wide web, not the AMERICAN wide web.
The rest of the civilized world doesn't have a stick up their ass about porn the way Americans do....and American regulations only affect Americans.
How many of the big tubes do you think are currently incorporated and hosted in the U.S.?
How many do you think will be incorporated and hosted here if what you're predicting comes true?
It won't make a bit of difference.
But that will only happen at the moment, when it's a law that access to hardcore pornography over the web (and here you have to define precisely the web / the medium / other media etc., very important) will be banned, not access to "illegal" hardcore pornography, there can't be a difference.
Think about the precedent.
Last edited by CarlosTheGaucho; 04-04-2009, 08:56 PM.Need hosting, cloud, CDN or solutions for your AI? Go faster while saving with The Last Host you'll ever need!| Double Impact PR | Telegram carl_boro | Read My Educational Series | Read my Adult Biz Chronicles|Comment
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But that doesn't mean that government regulation requiring age verification in order to see hardcore, or whatever it is that you think will come down the pipe from the government....that's not going to affect production in the U.S., only distribution...and since the sites that are giving everything away aren't based here anyways for the most part, it really doesn't matter.
Yeah and they could start burning books again too, but I doubt that's going to happen. I would love to see the U.S. government try to act like China and tell google what it can and can't include in it's results.It is actually possible to ban these sites from US ISP's, US search engines etc.
But that will only happen at the moment, when it's a law that access to hardcore pornography over the web (and here you have to define precisely the web / the medium / other media etc., very important) will be banned, not access to "illegal" hardcore pornography, there can't be a difference.
Think about the precedent.
The court battle would be epic, one that they'd be teaching to 1st year law students 100 years from now.
Some politicians are always going to have a bug up their ass about porn...but the court has ruled again and again that filtering software is more effective than trying to block porn sites en masse, or making them register with the govt, or whatever else.
Bottom line, in terms of the govt and how they relate to the situation we're discussing.....
The government isn't going to save you anymore than this lawsuit will. If you're hoping the govt will shut down the tubes for obscenity, or 2257 violations, or some big producer can sue them out of business, fuggetaboutit.sig too bigComment
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That's happening already, try to google some contraversial terms about the US history..you'll only find two or three lines that say nothing concrete..
Seriously, what we are discussing is the free speech vs. obscenity
Free speech is there, but obscenity IS now there too, so where is the free speech now?
That's more of a way of my thinking.Need hosting, cloud, CDN or solutions for your AI? Go faster while saving with The Last Host you'll ever need!| Double Impact PR | Telegram carl_boro | Read My Educational Series | Read my Adult Biz Chronicles|Comment
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To qualify for the safe harbor provisions of 17 USC 512, an agent has to be registered with the US Copyright Office for purpose of DMCA notices. Here is the list from their site. While a lot of sites and companies have done this, a surprisingly large number have not.
I have always wondered about the provisions that the service provider "does not have actual knowledge that the material or an activity using the material on the system or network is infringing" and "in the absence of such actual knowledge, is not aware of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent." As opposed to a site like youtube, which advertises as a place users can upload movies they created themselves, I doubt that many of the adult tube sites can honestly say that they expect users to just upload sex videos they have made themselves.
Of course, since almost no one here in the US bothers to register their copyrights or send proper DMCA notices, this situation is not likely to change soon either. And it would not matter much to offshore tubes either. But maybe that secret copyright treaty the Obama administration is negotiating might impact this situation a bit.Comment
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Snake Doctor, next time I talk to Paolo, I will make sure to let him know he can save the 400$-500$/hr in laywers fees and and all the time in researching and come straight to you.
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Did you really just enter this discussion so you could name drop and make someone sound like a big deal because they have an expensive lawyer?
How trailerpark-ish of you.
I never said I was a legal expert, I was simply giving my opinion, the same as everyone else in this thread. Of course since I'm one of the few not hailing the filer of this lawsuit as some "saviour of the industry" I guess I need to be put in my place eh?
I don't care what the attorney costs. Unless they took the case on a contingency basis, then their opinion means jack shit. They're getting paid by the hour to pursue a case, so they're going to pursue it, whether it makes sense to or not.
The only attorney who wouldn't would be one with skin in the game....a salaried company employee or one who was working for a percentage of the damages awarded.
Also, from a couple of remarks Jay has made in this thread about things like "you can't sell a site with a lawsuit pending" and "tube margins are slim as it is and it'll be expensive to fight and the host won't want to deal with this" lead me to believe this wasn't a suit filed on the merits of the complaint, but more of a thumb in the eye to redtube. A "you fucked us so now we're going to fuck you back"
It's quite possible that the people filing the suit know damn well they'll never see a dime in damages. It wouldn't be the first law suit filed based on emotion, and it won't be the last.
Nice of you to drop by and let us know that you know someone and how much their lawyer cost. You and KB should hang out.
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Did you really just enter this discussion so you could name drop and make someone sound like a big deal because they have an expensive lawyer?
How trailerpark-ish of you.
I never said I was a legal expert, I was simply giving my opinion, the same as everyone else in this thread. Of course since I'm one of the few not hailing the filer of this lawsuit as some "saviour of the industry" I guess I need to be put in my place eh?
I don't care what the attorney costs. Unless they took the case on a contingency basis, then their opinion means jack shit. They're getting paid by the hour to pursue a case, so they're going to pursue it, whether it makes sense to or not.
The only attorney who wouldn't would be one with skin in the game....a salaried company employee or one who was working for a percentage of the damages awarded.
Also, from a couple of remarks Jay has made in this thread about things like "you can't sell a site with a lawsuit pending" and "tube margins are slim as it is and it'll be expensive to fight and the host won't want to deal with this" lead me to believe this wasn't a suit filed on the merits of the complaint, but more of a thumb in the eye to redtube. A "you fucked us so now we're going to fuck you back"
It's quite possible that the people filing the suit know damn well they'll never see a dime in damages. It wouldn't be the first law suit filed based on emotion, and it won't be the last.
Nice of you to drop by and let us know that you know someone and how much their lawyer cost. You and KB should hang out.
Actually I was in the thread earlier to put to rest the thoughts that is was a copyright issue, and I don't have to name drop... lmao.
You have NO idea whats going on.
You can speculate all you want.Comment
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Speculations are 99 pct. of the content here, I remember it was actually extremely amusing, once there was a thread about something I knew pretty much everything about.
It's the same thing as one guy was recently, on the other board I use to visit (with normal people, not porn people), trying to persuade me, that there's perpetuum mobile.
Well I have only studied Newtonian Physics, Electromagnetism and the simplified theory of relativity plus the basic course of quantum physics as I studied cybernetics at the university, but he was dead sure.
Same way as 1000 other people, who are trying to patent their own perpetuum mobile every single year.
The Gauss curve doesn't lie, give everyone access to contribute, and you'll always get 95 pct. speculations and 5 pct of those, who don't want to give away too much.Last edited by CarlosTheGaucho; 04-04-2009, 10:19 PM.Need hosting, cloud, CDN or solutions for your AI? Go faster while saving with The Last Host you'll ever need!| Double Impact PR | Telegram carl_boro | Read My Educational Series | Read my Adult Biz Chronicles|Comment
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True they are, but he is talking like he knows where this is going, how with will turn out and what the ramifications will be.. He doesn't. How it will turn out only time will tell. He has NO clue whats going on, he is stating his opinions on something he knows nothing about.Last edited by Mike69; 04-04-2009, 10:23 PM.Comment
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If I intend to buy a membership to your site next year can I time shift the content via torrent to today?
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I gave an opinion, yeah, that's what we do on a forum called fucking around and program discussion.
We fuck around and discuss programs. (And apparently their lawsuits...if you don't want people discussing it, don't announce it, or give the details to someone you know will post it on GFY)
I never claimed to know shit in terms of inside knowledge...you're just pissed off apparently because I'm not trying to fellate the people filing the lawsuit.
Dear god, someone with an opinion that differs from mine? He must be a raving lunatic. Doesn't he know that I know everything?
So the people who speculate that your side will win and that the tube site owners will take it up the ass you have no problem with....but god forbid someone speculates that your side might lose and that this case, even if it's won, won't make a bit of difference to the industry as a whole....oh, well that kind of speculation is bad and that guy doesn't know what he's talking about....but those people who think we'll win....they're fucking geniuses, all of them.
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