Where's the money at in adult these days?

All of the money is in cams.

Being as I run YNOT Mail I see a lot of people making money off of email marketing too.

instant porn ( live cams ) but also micro niched sites ...

Adult dating and webcams are doing well for me.

Wayback machine - search 2003.

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Dating and cams still crushing it.

See sig ...

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Free cams specifically

Dating isn't Adult.

So you're left with cams. Running sites or producing content will lose you money.

Automatinf the processes with software in the porn industry.

Money doesn't buy happiness.

Of course it is.

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Many answers with "doing well", "doing great" with cams/dating

What is doing great for you? 1k, 10k, 20k?

Interesting. Tell that to every network still launching new high end paysites that are profiting highly. Blacked, Nubiles, etc

Tell that to every cam model, instagram model or porn model that has her own site. Tell that to every person who supplies software dedicated to helping those social media models, cam models, pornstar achieve those high figures. Manyvids, modelcentro, onlyfans, i want clips, snapcentro, clips4sale is even still doing great. The industry changes as it matures and people think, its only cams, if youre referring to the types of businesses that started in 1999, yes, few remain. New types of businesses open up for people who have real business management skills, creative mindsets and were smart enough to not blow money when they had it. Or made it enough to not blow it all

I could make a solo site that still makes 5-10k a month tomorrow with little investment. Just need to be a little pickier with the model. Though I usually was

I agree. These are the 'new porn sites'. Girls from instagram and twitter self promoting and cutting out all 'middlemen'.

It is one of the reasons we made and are focusing on Directory | Find Cam Girls | Hottest Babes

We are giving these girls a free way to help promote them. So many want to be listed.
And on there we just make a few $$'s from cam affiliates & sex toys.



Tube sites are a waste of time as there are no so many. You might be able to get a little traffic to them but by the time you pay hosting costs it is hard to make good money with them. Adapt and improvise
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shemales?

really?

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VR porn is booming. Make sure you are not too late

That's a niche dating site. Mainstream is where most people go. Have you heard of Tinder?

That's big existing sites hoping of getting new customers with some new material. Their existing affiliates will be the best ones marketing it.

Small beer. The new businesses are a fraction of what the old ones did. This is a thread by an old timer.

Tinder has killed so much of the dating sites.

As far as the numbers the companies I mention are making, until you've seen their numbers, you are simply guessing as to what these companies I mention make. You would be very surprised. They would still be considered very successful 10 years ago. Sadly I can't take all the numbers and make them public and say told you so to all these people on this board who think there is no money to be made but I assure you, for anybody who knows their stuff, there is A LOT. Not in one or two areas either, more.

Blacked launched Blacked not all that long ago. The whole network is new. Also they didn't simply move their members to a new site when they launched a non interracial site as they are very much different customers. So you are wrong. Same goes with nubiles/nubilefilms and their latest sites. These are completely different markets. Is there crossover? Sure. The porn industry is only so big and only so many sites launching stuff. The same porn buyer is going to end up at another site they see promoting where they found the first one.

Small? How many companies are doing it? Sure. That's not because of it not being highly profitable. It's because most people are too unsure about it because they don't have the money to take a shot, they go in and put out feelers and do it half assed and tell themselves if it does well, they'll invest more, thats not how things work. You do it right out of the gate or it wont be successful. No such thing as spend half as much, see half the profit. Don't spend as much, make as good of a product ATLEAST, it will fail. Brands get alot of exposure on tube sites, if you spend 90 percent as much, you get 90 percent of the product and you are now below all the people who do things right and that means your videos aren't being looked at because of the algorithm, you do things better and spend that extra amount, you are now at or above their level and you are pushed to the top, because you are new, you get an even bigger boost and the more youre seen, the more the tubes reward that video/brand. This logic applies to more than just tubes, it's how you treat every single decision and step in building your site/s, marketing material and how you market it. Doing everything right puts you above the rest and the reward for being in the top percentile is very much still extremely lucrative. You're either a nobody or youre a somebody now and this industry that attracted the uneducated men with very little work ethic due to the low cost to startup and the ease in that money was made in years past is weeding out these types. Mainstream entities are coming in and taking over in the software side of things, they would also be taking over in the porn production area as well if they knew how or where to start. Sadly they do not, there is no room for a learning curve anymore, you will fail if you do not know out of the gate

None of the reasons why porn production isn't as rampant relate to how profitable they are when done right.

Anybody can come in and launch a good site and make alot of money, people not in this industry don't know how and the people in it who failed are doing other things and the remaining companies are still launching stuff. The fact you even mention affiliates shows how out of touch you are. Nobody needs or uses affiliates anymore, they're a thing of the past. It's a low cost, low reward feature so you include it but they are no the reason for any site's success these days. It's done via tube exposure and ad purchases (also mainly on tubes)

I know there are people who argue to find out more information than they currently have, a form of playing devils advocate, I hope this is the case here. And you truly are not firm on these opinions.

Though I do believe it's easier for alot of people to have these opinions as it makes it easier for them to cope with not making forward movement in the industry they are in/were in

Lots of mainstream businesses sell for 2 1/2 * cash flow. Burt you have to have the 500kUSD. Porn seems to be more like that now. You need to have some dough to make some, or be in a good spot.

upload ... see sig

It's relative to the individual. I know plenty of people dropping $20k a day just on traffic to cams, no idea on their returns but I bet it is significant.

Dating is making a strong comeback and contrary to what someone else posted, it defo is adult! Cams has always been solid. Male enhancement products are working very well, especially COD offers in alternative markets like Asia and South America.

+1 for dating.

Because the businesses that usually are sold in this industry are shells of their former self and at anytime, things could change and drop the income dramatically. On top of that, there is just more sense in investing money into something that could profit much higher since this industry will continue to be the easiest way to invest money.

Mainstream companies sell for more due to stability, how hard it is to start a company in mainstream and the larger buyer market

forget it - paul will never get that - i tried that too much - he lives in his own little world.
he does not even know what is much and what is little money.

he is just angry about all and everything and hates everyone who makes in this days more money in a year as he made in his whole working life.

the complete revenue what is made in this days WITH adult (maybe not by selling the prodtcs from the 90s) is around 20-50 times higher as ist was in the times paul remembers - when he got a very very little piece of the cake (what seemed for him as a big portion).

Enough walls of text and answer me, damnit.

And Grinder.

So why is the industry shrinking in the terms of affiliates?

So why are their fewer and fewer affiliates? Don't deny their isn't boards are dead, dying or long gone. Shows are tiny compared to a few years ago and mostly non porn sites. Never seen you at a show.

In fact give us some piece of the industry being 20-50 times higher. Not ad selling as that's not an indicator, we want to see actual paysites.

They were forced to adapt and change, they did not. Google penalized them for not learning how to adapt and continuing oldschool techniques instead of learning how to properly manage a business and invest into new ways to offer the produce they provide. Affiliate sites could always convert, it's that they lost their form of getting traffic, which was mainly capitalizing on using the paysites/models brand in Google. When that could no longer work, sales decreased. Which caused them to spend less, making them spiral even faster. Very similar reason why a lot of paysite owners died off. There are several ways to deal with a declining business and those who do not have the experience or business management skills generally get anxiety/afraid and spend less vs what they should be doing, spending more and learning how things have changed and what they can do.

Anyway it was their traffic that disappeared. Reason: Google. Link exchanges could no longer work either because their trade partners also depended on search engine traffic.

Affiliates killed themselves off by not adapting. With all the traffic TGPs had, freeones had, etc etc - they could have became the next pornhub. They did not.

It allowed tubes to walk in and crush them. I dont think i saw a single tgp change until they were frantically wondering what the hell to do because they've lost the majority of their traffic/sales

TGPs offered sample videos and the best pics from every set, now its tubes that do.

We consider tubes an affiliate, so if you do as well, I dont believe it has shrunk that much, there just aren't as many because they have more traffic per property.

What does affiliates no longer being able to receive traffic to fuel their blogs/tgps and other stupid sites have to do with how paysites sell? Paysites can still use pornhub/tubes which has as much traffic as affiliates. We have to pay for adspace, yes. But we also reach far more people in one space. Videos also get user uploaded and brand it that way, without having to pay.

Companies are also working together to receive more traffic/sales. This is something you did not see before, as an industry matures, you see change, it went from small fish feeding big fish, now its big fish feeding big fish and no need for small fish. It costs more to get in and you also make more. Like all maturing industries. Might seem dead when you were deeply involved with the people on the lower spectrum of things, affiliate died off, small paysites died off so I understand why it may appear that way but it's simply not the way it is. Businesses require more work and managing people with actual degrees, who have little adult experience. Because they are cheaper and because the task of ad management is done better by somebody who understands numbers, critical thinking, task efficiency, data reports, etc. - They do not have the time to talk on the boards, so the boards are empty with those who were not able to find roles

In the mirror.
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I do support you in the part about the industry maturing and small sites are all but gone. Still even the big sites can't compete with free and pirating of their own movies.

https://thepiratebay.org/browse/500/0/7/0

https://www.pornhub.com/video?o=mv&cc=cz

This is where the traffic that used to convert at 1-200 has gone. It now converts at 1-30,000 + views. Ads convert so badly that few can make it work, because they offer something worse than the site they left.

I give proof, you give a wall off text.

yes - proof of your stupidy !

better go to the city park and feed the pigeons.

The problem with porn is that it can't do anything new and still retain mass appeal and keep it off pirate sites and Tubes. It's basically boy fucks girl, girl fuck girl, solo girl and the men fuck men. Mainstream niches are shooting the same scenes over and over again for decades, long before the Internet.

When those scenes or very similar are given away for free you get 1117 seeds and 478 leechers or free views in the 10s of millions. HD made no difference, VR makes no difference so what can be done to rescue the mainstay of the porn industry?

there aren´t fewer affiliates you moron.
but affiliates are not any more people who do websites.
affiliates today are big media buying companies with a mass of employees.
and true - this guys do not know how to get traffic but they know MUCH better how to convert it.

where did you get this information from ?

the affiliate world shows in berlin, barcelona, bangkok and wherever are shows with thousands of attendees. and yes 1/3 of them is adult.

andreas and walter with their summits do have problems to find hotels big enough.

what a fuck are you talking about ?

why are you nailed on paysites?
yes there are still some bringing money - and I can see even a growth in the past 2 years. but this paysites are just a fraction of what is sold on porn.

and yes they do not have much affiliates anymore because even adultwebmasters learned that they can make more money by selling more products and leave the risk on the one who pays for the advertising.

additionally the really big sites have own media buying teams (some of them are HUGE)
they are no longer dependent on direct-affiliates.

in the old times we had in example in the german market like 10.000 who made some money with adult. now we have maybe 500 big ones left. and they make MUCH more as the 10.000 together.

it is a question of going with the market and not against it.
you are not able to go with the market because you do not have skills for it.
but this is what business is. the smart ones survive the dumb ones are crying and wish back the good old times.
this is in every biz like that - and you are the proof.

Arwe they buying traffic that converts at 1-300?



From visiting shows and what is said on boards.

So you admit they have gone from being the mainstay of porn to a fraction. What has replaced their sales?

What big sites are buying Ad spots? Name them as they must be known by their ads. The big sites own porn tubes. Or deal direct with them.

I agree with you about going with the industry, something I did continually through my career, unlike you. I retired because of my health and age with enough to see me out in comfort. Can't stay here long because I have to go for dialysis in a few minutes.

Unlike you and Pseudonymous I give links to where the traffic is. you write a wall of text. My taxi is here. Bye.

if you talk about clicks - even less.
but it would lead to far to explain you a biz model what is FAAAR ahead of you knowledge.

how many boards do you know beside GFY ?
there are TONNS of bid affiliate boards out there with thousands and thousands of active members who do not care what product they sell.

only affiliatefix.com (what is just one of them) have around 100 k members and mostly like 1000 online.

dating, gaming, gambling, enhancement products, mobile apps, physical products, holidays, crypto and of course still a few paysites.
but then even bigger market are people who do not focus on ANY markets.
sweepstakes, incentives - alone this 2 biz models are 10 times bigger as the porn industry ever was.

why should i name them ? do you think I will write here the names of my buyers or anybody else do it?
but if you mean the really BIG sites in porn I can tell you that ALL of them are buying ads and/or working with big media buying companies what have the skills and know how to convert.

your big thinking error is that you see the stuff you produced as the product.
if the movie industry in the world would see that the same way they would be bankrupt already.

the longterm big money in any kind of movie production is made directly or indirectly with advertising.
so not the customer is paying for the content but the advertiser will do it.
not even a cinema (where people pay to go in) could live without advertising because the entrance fee would double up.


what kind of links do you want?
links to pornhub and pirate bay ?

for what?

pornhub alone buys more movies than all paysites together.
they give jobs and pay more money to their employees as 1000nds of affiliates make together.

where do you think does this money come from? and do you REALLY believe that advertisers would pay it when they could not make profit with it?

sorry about the dialyses thing. take care - I still want to fight with you a bit longer.

So is Courtney !

it is very refreshing to read some lines from someone who tries to see the situation from a neutral and logic perspective instead of crying around and try to make others guilty for own mistakes.

the problem in adult is that there was a time when everybody could make money with it because everybody had the same skills (: zero).

when i started in 1997 i could make my dog a successful webmaster and i was one of the idiots making a lot of money and did not even know why.

That business became harder was not only a reason of a cheaper audience (when internet became cheaper) it was also divided in 3 groups:

Group 1 was unable to learn. they just made accidentally the right thing at the right time and thought it will go on forever.

Group 2 are the people without own ideas. They want to look forward but they do not have the empathy and marketing knowledge to create something own and unique.
I call them the copiers. An because copying is easy the numbers of copies can be endless.
They are ending up sharing a quite big cake but with too many other copiers.

Group 3 are the people with the long term view - willing to learn and observing the market. Those are the winners because they took all what others did not even see.
They invested the money instead of spending it and they are the ones with the skills, the tools and the manpower.

Most of them are companies meanwhile and they will probably not even read here.

for people who are thinking that GFY or any other adult board is representing the adult industry it really looks like the adult industry is getting down year by year.
but if they would have the complete view they would realize that the opposite is the case.

sure - in these days you will not find many who make 100 k per year - because they split into one group what makes less than 10 k per year an the other group what makes a few million.

overseeing this facts is the reason of wrong convictions as paul´s.

So you include other industries to prove your point.

Then I will do the same about any media where a camera is used. Movies, TV, Cable, Cams and porn are still bigger than businesses advertising them.



I didn't ask for names of your buyers. I asked for names, I already have found the lame ducks you advertise for in porn. It proves you make less than we did from porn.



So they don't care about people downloading for free?

Bullshit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...grossing_films

Links to anyone advertising to prove you're right.

Are you saying they now produce more content than was produced in 2000? Or they make more money than the porn industry did in 2000? I will give you that the business has now changed, the days of 1,000s of people making a living from fair to good to amazing are long gone. To be replaced by people very good at scraping dollars from traffic that costs $30 for 6,000 clicks from sites that have a rate of clicks per views sucks. Mainstream is complaining about it all the time. Newspapers have been gutted. The days of them exposing real scandals like Watergate, Child abuse, PENTAGON PAPERS, etc. https://www.google.com/search?ei=sRL....0.Ryi-9iQ4ouM

Because free newspapers can't afford to do in depth investigations. Which ones are supported by ads? Both, but offline advertising paid more so they could dig deeper.

I will give you that the growth of all advertising dwarfs the porn industry. That was true in the beginning of adverts to today. But in porn, films, cams, dating that falls into the porn sector, isn't going to replace the billions made from selling magazines and films. What you are saying is stupid. You are trying to claim advertising is bigger than people paying for the product. Then all the sites would go out of business.