Sleep cycles (deep sleep etc), apps - anyone into it?

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  • mineistaken
    See signature :)
    • Apr 2007
    • 29656
    #1

    Sleep cycles (deep sleep etc), apps - anyone into it?

    Do I understand it right - you would feel better rested if you woke up at lets say 6 am during light sleep than if you woke up at 9 am during deep sleep (or REM)? Even you actually slept extra 9 hours?

    Because some articles seem to claim that.

    While I would assume it only applies to how easily you wake up/get out of the bed etc, not how rested you would feel during the day.

    Klentelaris pointed me there with his sleep cycle app recommendation
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    • Paul&John
      Confirmed User
      • Aug 2005
      • 8617
      #2
      There are apps , I've tried only one but it did a shitty job, however I think with those smart sport bands (bracelets) which can monitor your heart rate etc you can get a better outcome.
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        • CurrentlySober
          Too lazy to wipe my ass
          • Aug 2002
          • 38944
          #3


          Thats mine from last night. Not a great sleep but there yah go...


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            • CaptainHowdy
              Too lazy to set a custom title
              • Dec 2004
              • 94013
              #4
              You just have to completely turn off your cellphone in order to sleep better ...

                Comment

                • mineistaken
                  See signature :)
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 29656
                  #5
                  Originally posted by CaptainHowdy
                  You just have to completely turn off your cellphone in order to sleep better ...
                  How would non completely turned off phone (but with sound turned off) interfere with your sleep?

                    Comment

                    • Paul&John
                      Confirmed User
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 8617
                      #6
                      Originally posted by CurrentlySober


                      Thats mine from last night. Not a great sleep but there yah go...
                      Do you use any fitbit type of things to track this or just the phone?
                      Did you tried to set it to wake you up during the awake phase and did it helped?
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                        • CaptainHowdy
                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 94013
                          #7
                          Originally posted by mineistaken
                          How would non completely turned off phone (but with sound turned off) interfere with your sleep?
                          https://sleep.org/articles/ways-tech...affects-sleep/

                            Comment

                            • Klen
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 32234
                              #8
                              Well, in my experience i feel better if i wake up during light sleep then right after REM phase.

                                Comment

                                • CurrentlySober
                                  Too lazy to wipe my ass
                                  • Aug 2002
                                  • 38944
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by Paul&John
                                  Do you use any fitbit type of things to track this or just the phone?


                                  Fitbit Alta HR on my wrist doing the tracking, and the readout I posted is from my iMac. It's on my phone too, but phone isn't really involved in tracking my sleep at all. It's all in the fitbit

                                  Originally posted by Paul&John
                                  Did you tried to set it to wake you up during the awake phase and did it helped?
                                  I Dont get what you are asking? Why would I set it to wake me up if Im already awake?

                                  Its not set to do anything or interact with me at all while I sleep. Its just tracks my sleep and shows me the results


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                                    • Paul&John
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Aug 2005
                                      • 8617
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by CurrentlySober
                                      I Dont get what you are asking? Why would I set it to wake me up if Im already awake?

                                      Its not set to do anything or interact with me at all while I sleep. Its just tracks my sleep and shows me the results
                                      Oh wait I thought that 'awake' (pink/red) phases on the graph mean that you are still sleeping but almost awake, but you are actually awake at those phases? So you wake up every one and a half hour each night?
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                                        • Paul&John
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Aug 2005
                                          • 8617
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by CaptainHowdy
                                          https://sleep.org/articles/ways-tech...affects-sleep/
                                          Using apps (on mobile-twilight/PC-f.lux) which limit that blue light should help. Also I have my mobile on mute during sleep so I don't wake up for anything.. I just have it nearby so I can check the clock if I need to and I give a shit about SMS and other stuff
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                                            • rowan
                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                              • Mar 2002
                                              • 17393
                                              #12
                                              I've noticed that if I half wake up, check the time, go back to sleep, and check the time after more sleep, the gap is usually about 40 to 42 minutes.

                                              If I wake up with less than 40 minutes to go before my alarm sounds, I usually don't bother going to back to sleep, because I'll end up feeling more shitty. So I reckon there is something to the claim. Better to wake up by yourself when your mind wants to rather than have an alarm pull you out of sleep.

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                                                • Paul&John
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Aug 2005
                                                  • 8617
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by rowan
                                                  I've noticed that if I half wake up, check the time, go back to sleep, and check the time after more sleep, the gap is usually about 40 to 42 minutes.

                                                  If I wake up with less than 40 minutes to go before my alarm sounds, I usually don't bother going to back to sleep, because I'll end up feeling more shitty. So I reckon there is something to the claim. Better to wake up by yourself when your mind wants to rather than have an alarm pull you out of sleep.
                                                  If I would wake up by myself then it would be at least 1-2 hours after the desired time.. So instead of 7:30AM around 8:30AM or 9AM
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                                                    • rowan
                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                      • Mar 2002
                                                      • 17393
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by Paul&John
                                                      If I would wake up by myself then it would be at least 1-2 hours after the desired time.. So instead of 7:30AM around 8:30AM or 9AM
                                                      I don't necessarily mean get up the first time you wake up, but if you have a specific time you must be awake by, better to get up when it's near that time than have a deep sleep cycle interrupted by an alarm.

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                                                        • pimpmaster9000
                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                          • Dec 2011
                                                          • 26730
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by CurrentlySober


                                                          Thats mine from last night. Not a great sleep but there yah go...
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                                                            • CurrentlySober
                                                              Too lazy to wipe my ass
                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                              • 38944
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by Paul&John
                                                              Oh wait I thought that 'awake' (pink/red) phases on the graph mean that you are still sleeping but almost awake, but you are actually awake at those phases? So you wake up every one and a half hour each night?
                                                              Yeah, exactly that. I went to sleep at 1.22 in the morning and got out of bed at 8.55 The red patches like at say the first one at about 3 o'clock, I was actually awake for a few mins, prob went to the loo or got a drink or something, but I actually got out of bed and walked around. The little pink dot just after that was when I woke up as in I wasn't asleep, but didnt get out of bed or stay awake for more than a minute or so...

                                                              The total minutes where I was not asleep (But not necessarily aware I was not asleep or did not get out of bed) In total comes to 1 hour 8 mins of the total time between 1.22 and 8.55

                                                              Like I said, it was a shit night really, but then I didn't select a 'good night' to display to you all, I just grabbed last nights readings to give a realistic picture of my sleep


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                                                                • Paul&John
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Aug 2005
                                                                  • 8617
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by rowan
                                                                  I don't necessarily mean get up the first time you wake up, but if you have a specific time you must be awake by, better to get up when it's near that time than have a deep sleep cycle interrupted by an alarm.
                                                                  I don't have a specific time I need to get up, but if I wouldn't set an alarm then the time I wake up would always slip and I don't want to end up waking up at 11AM because I went to bed at 3AM (because I wasn't tired)

                                                                  Originally posted by CurrentlySober
                                                                  Yeah, exactly that. I went to sleep at 1.22 in the morning and got out of bed at 8.55 The red patches like at say the first one at about 3 o'clock, I was actually awake for a few mins, prob went to the loo or got a drink or something, but I actually got out of bed and walked around. The little pink dot just after that was when I woke up as in I wasn't asleep, but didnt get out of bed or stay awake for more than a minute or so...

                                                                  The total minutes where I was not asleep (But not necessarily aware I was not asleep or did not get out of bed) In total comes to 1 hour 8 mins of the total time between 1.22 and 8.55

                                                                  Like I said, it was a shit night really, but then I didn't select a 'good night' to display to you all, I just grabbed last nights readings to give a realistic picture of my sleep
                                                                  That makes sense, and you haven't tried to set the alarm to light sleep to try it? Or that fitbit is good only for tracking not for such interactive things?
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                                                                    • davidCRM
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • Nov 2016
                                                                      • 1506
                                                                      #18
                                                                      i use Sleep Cycle on android and it's perfect.

                                                                      It wakes you up in your most awake moment during the half-hour window before your selected time. Not a rude awakening since i'm using it.
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                                                                        • JFK
                                                                          FUBAR the ORIGINATOR
                                                                          • Jan 2002
                                                                          • 67369
                                                                          #19
                                                                          I just post on GFY till the political threads put me back to sleep

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                                                                            • CurrentlySober
                                                                              Too lazy to wipe my ass
                                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                                              • 38944
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by Paul&John

                                                                              That makes sense, and you haven't tried to set the alarm to light sleep to try it? Or that fitbit is good only for tracking not for such interactive things?
                                                                              You can set it to wake you up I believe, but not sure if its 'smart' about it or not. I've never used that feature, cause I get little enough sleep as it is so the last thing I want to do is wake myself up when I am asleep.

                                                                              I don't need to get up for anything so I sleep as long as my body wants / can


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                                                                                • Adultium
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Dec 2017
                                                                                  • 183
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by davidCRM
                                                                                  i use Sleep Cycle on android and it's perfect.

                                                                                  It wakes you up in your most awake moment during the half-hour window before your selected time. Not a rude awakening since i'm using it.
                                                                                  Do you sleep alone in your bed? Doesn't affect motion detection when there are two in bed?

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                                                                                    • Paul&John
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Aug 2005
                                                                                      • 8617
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by davidCRM
                                                                                      i use Sleep Cycle on android and it's perfect.

                                                                                      It wakes you up in your most awake moment during the half-hour window before your selected time. Not a rude awakening since i'm using it.
                                                                                      Is it paired with a bracelet or it just records the whole night and analyzes the sleep cycles?

                                                                                      Originally posted by CurrentlySober
                                                                                      You can set it to wake you up I believe, but not sure if its 'smart' about it or not. I've never used that feature, cause I get little enough sleep as it is so the last thing I want to do is wake myself up when I am asleep.

                                                                                      I don't need to get up for anything so I sleep as long as my body wants / can
                                                                                      Makes sense
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                                                                                        • Klen
                                                                                          • Aug 2006
                                                                                          • 32234
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by Paul&John
                                                                                          Is it paired with a bracelet or it just records the whole night and analyzes the sleep cycles?

                                                                                          It record motions during night, tho latest version is using microphone instead, where it records snores.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Paul&John
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Aug 2005
                                                                                              • 8617
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by KlenTelaris
                                                                                              It record motions during night, tho latest version is using microphone instead, where it records snores.
                                                                                              Yeah I tried something like that a few years ago and it did not worked well (but maybe my phone was shitty at the time).. but its not draining the battery much?
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                                                                                                • Klen
                                                                                                  • Aug 2006
                                                                                                  • 32234
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Paul&John
                                                                                                  Yeah I tried something like that a few years ago and it did not worked well (but maybe my phone was shitty at the time).. but its not draining the battery much?
                                                                                                  Sleepcycle require charger to be plugged in, so i gonna guess how it drain battery much

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                                                                                                    • 2MuchMark
                                                                                                      Mark of 2Much.net
                                                                                                      • Aug 2004
                                                                                                      • 50883
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      I've tried a few apps but none of them seemed to make much difference.

                                                                                                      I think in order to get a clear picture, you need to try a gadget that you wear, that somehow senses when you fall asleep, and senses how much deep sleep you get, etc. And even then, I would question its accuracy.

                                                                                                      I'm not sure, but I *think* I do all of my Rem sleep very late in my sleep cycle. In the mornings I find that I am dreaming like crazy and when I wake up, I feel completely exhausted, as if I am not getting enough Rem sleep. I don't know if this is true, but it sure seems like it.

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • Klen
                                                                                                          • Aug 2006
                                                                                                          • 32234
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by 2MuchMark
                                                                                                          I've tried a few apps but none of them seemed to make much difference.

                                                                                                          I think in order to get a clear picture, you need to try a gadget that you wear, that somehow senses when you fall asleep, and senses how much deep sleep you get, etc. And even then, I would question its accuracy.

                                                                                                          I'm not sure, but I *think* I do all of my Rem sleep very late in my sleep cycle. In the mornings I find that I am dreaming like crazy and when I wake up, I feel completely exhausted, as if I am not getting enough Rem sleep. I don't know if this is true, but it sure seems like it.
                                                                                                          Yes apps cannot detect when you are in Rem phase. But when it comes to sleepcycle, even if you dont have use of sleep analysis feature, it is still useful to wake up without felling sleepy.

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                                                                                                            • PR_Glen
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Oct 2006
                                                                                                              • 9058
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by CurrentlySober
                                                                                                              You can set it to wake you up I believe, but not sure if its 'smart' about it or not. I've never used that feature, cause I get little enough sleep as it is so the last thing I want to do is wake myself up when I am asleep.

                                                                                                              I don't need to get up for anything so I sleep as long as my body wants / can
                                                                                                              If you keep waking up like that it is unusual and usually a sign of sleep apnea. have you been tested for it? I used to think it was electronics, a busy mind or having to go to the bathroom too much but i had pretty bad sleep apnea and i didn't realize it.
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                                                                                                                • Honez
                                                                                                                  Confirmed Brat
                                                                                                                  • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                  • 6636
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by CurrentlySober


                                                                                                                  Fitbit Alta HR on my wrist doing the tracking, and the readout I posted is from my iMac. It's on my phone too, but phone isn't really involved in tracking my sleep at all. It's all in the fitbit


                                                                                                                  That's the same one I have.
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                                                                                                                    • mineistaken
                                                                                                                      See signature :)
                                                                                                                      • Apr 2007
                                                                                                                      • 29656
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by davidCRM
                                                                                                                      i use Sleep Cycle on android and it's perfect.

                                                                                                                      It wakes you up in your most awake moment during the half-hour window before your selected time.
                                                                                                                      It is not possible to wake you up in most awake moment during that 30 minutes.

                                                                                                                      Imagine - 15th minute and you are kind of at a good moment. But how would anyone (and that app) know if this already your best moment in that 30 minute range? Maybe you would have much better moment in 25th minute.

                                                                                                                      So all it does - wakes you up most likely in a kind of very good moment, but not necessary in the best moment within that 30 minute frame.

                                                                                                                      Originally posted by davidCRM
                                                                                                                      Not a rude awakening since i'm using it.
                                                                                                                      So you were lucky not to ever have deep sleep phase during that 30 minute period?

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                                                                                                                        • mineistaken
                                                                                                                          See signature :)
                                                                                                                          • Apr 2007
                                                                                                                          • 29656
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by KlenTelaris
                                                                                                                          Sleepcycle require charger to be plugged in, so i gonna guess how it drain battery much
                                                                                                                          It does not. I mean they make it seem as it is required (misleading), but it is not. And it does not drain much, I mean probably 10% or whatever. Don't quote me on that, just that it did not drain much when I tested it for couple nights.

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                                                                                                                            • Klen
                                                                                                                              • Aug 2006
                                                                                                                              • 32234
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Originally posted by mineistaken
                                                                                                                              It does not. I mean they make it seem as it is required (misleading), but it is not. And it does not drain much, I mean probably 10% or whatever. Don't quote me on that, just that it did not drain much when I tested it for couple nights.
                                                                                                                              What if that affect results?

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                                                                                                                                • Grapesoda
                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                  • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                  • 46234
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by mineistaken
                                                                                                                                  Do I understand it right - you would feel better rested if you woke up at lets say 6 am during light sleep than if you woke up at 9 am during deep sleep (or REM)? Even you actually slept extra 9 hours?

                                                                                                                                  Because some articles seem to claim that.

                                                                                                                                  While I would assume it only applies to how easily you wake up/get out of the bed etc, not how rested you would feel during the day.

                                                                                                                                  Klentelaris pointed me there with his sleep cycle app recommendation
                                                                                                                                  I'm doing the 2 sleeps right now, I feel great

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                                                                                                                                    • davidCRM
                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                      • Nov 2016
                                                                                                                                      • 1506
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Adultium: "Do you sleep alone in your bed? Doesn't affect motion detection when there are two in bed?"

                                                                                                                                      When i didn't sleep alone it still worked well. (my ex wasn't very fidgety when sleeping)

                                                                                                                                      Paul&John: "Is it paired with a bracelet or it just records the whole night and analyzes the sleep cycles?"

                                                                                                                                      No bracelet, just put it next to you in the bed. Not sure though if it analyzes movement or sound or both. Probably just movements.
                                                                                                                                      I couldn't sleep in a bracelet easily. It would throw me off.

                                                                                                                                      mineistaken: "So all it does - wakes you up most likely in a kind of very good moment, but not necessary in the best moment within that 30 minute frame."

                                                                                                                                      That's the point.. of course it can not foretell if you are going to be more awake in 10 minutes. but there is a threshold (probably set on the recent times and maybe based on your habits) that is surpassed, it wakes you up. Normally when i yawn or turn around to my other side, etc.
                                                                                                                                      And deep sleep happened maybe once or twice. then the alarm went off right at the set time (ie. at the end of the 30min window)
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                                                                                                                                        • yuu.design
                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                          • Mar 2006
                                                                                                                                          • 25308
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          i buyed my apple watch just for that and never find the way to setup that :S
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                                                                                                                                            • GAMEFINEST
                                                                                                                                              Make STACK$
                                                                                                                                              • Nov 2006
                                                                                                                                              • 14470
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              I can sleep all day long without any issues.
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                                                                                                                                                • TheDynasty
                                                                                                                                                  See Signature
                                                                                                                                                  • Apr 2016
                                                                                                                                                  • 5882
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  anybody here ever wake up startled while taking naps
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                                                                                                                                                    • Paul&John
                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                      • Aug 2005
                                                                                                                                                      • 8617
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      I just tried that Sleep Cycle app via microphone and it told me to try the accelerometer instead.. will try it tonight. Maybe it can't work when two people are 'snoring' around lol
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                                                                                                                                                        • Klen
                                                                                                                                                          • Aug 2006
                                                                                                                                                          • 32234
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Paul&John
                                                                                                                                                          I just tried that Sleep Cycle app via microphone and it told me to try the accelerometer instead.. will try it tonight. Maybe it can't work when two people are 'snoring' around lol
                                                                                                                                                          Yeah same happened to me lol, says how i should move it closer to bed.

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                                                                                                                                                            • mineistaken
                                                                                                                                                              See signature :)
                                                                                                                                                              • Apr 2007
                                                                                                                                                              • 29656
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by KlenTelaris
                                                                                                                                                              What if that affect results?
                                                                                                                                                              How?


                                                                                                                                                              8 char

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                                                                                                                                                                • mineistaken
                                                                                                                                                                  See signature :)
                                                                                                                                                                  • Apr 2007
                                                                                                                                                                  • 29656
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by KlenTelaris
                                                                                                                                                                  Yeah same happened to me lol, says how i should move it closer to bed.
                                                                                                                                                                  First night I put it on the table, 40 cm from the bed. It did not work.
                                                                                                                                                                  Then I put it directly on the bed, near the pillow. Worked, but I dislike that, I anticipate that I can drop it on the floor.
                                                                                                                                                                  Suggestions?

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                                                                                                                                                                    • Klen
                                                                                                                                                                      • Aug 2006
                                                                                                                                                                      • 32234
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by mineistaken
                                                                                                                                                                      First night I put it on the table, 40 cm from the bed. It did not work.
                                                                                                                                                                      Then I put it directly on the bed, near the pillow. Worked, but I dislike that, I anticipate that I can drop it on the floor.
                                                                                                                                                                      Suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                      Trial and error, nothing else

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