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BradM

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#1

I need your help - serious.

02-20-2009, 01:46 PM

Okay, here's the deal:
1) I don't want to debate. I am not interested in debate. I don't want to argue or yell or make someone feel like I am attacking them because I am NOT.
2) This is completely legitimate and serious so please treat it as such to the best of your ability.

In your opinion, do higher-ups in the church believe in God, or are they in on some sort of "grand scheme?" Do pastors, reverends, and the people who hold power (cardinals etc) in the church truly believe in an invisible man in the sky who grants wishes - or do YOU think they are part of a bigger plan?

I'd like to hear what you have to say.
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OMG Jim

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#2

02-20-2009, 01:51 PM

I think that they were all brainwashed at a very early age and have lived all their lives with the "Fear of God" that was thrust upon them before they were able to develop their own personal beliefs. Beware of the zealots

Oh yea plus it's a steady gig for life unless they get caught with their pants down!

Just my

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polish_aristocrat

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#3

02-20-2009, 02:00 PM

I bet it's easier to live for them if they believe in God...

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tony286

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#4

02-20-2009, 02:03 PM

I think alot dont believe
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Sly

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#5

02-20-2009, 02:09 PM

I think before anyone can have this debate all parties need to realize that people that belong to a religion don't just believe in an "invisible Man in the sky." Sure, some do... but for most, there is a lot more to it than that. Most religions are about faith and doing good... some are severely misguided, but many mean well.

Bashing religious people for being religious is like religious people bashing others for not being religious. It really serves no purpose. It is intolerance by both parties

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BradM

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#6

02-20-2009, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Sly

I think before anyone can have this debate all parties need to realize that people that belong to a religion don't just believe in an "invisible Man in the sky." Sure, some do... but for most, there is a lot more to it than that. Most religions are about faith and doing good... some are severely misguided, but many mean well.

Bashing religious people for being religious is like religious people bashing others for not being religious. It really serves no purpose. It is intolerance by both parties

You completely missed the entire point of this thread as you did not answer the question. It was really simple. I guess you were looking to debate. You can go do that in about 8,000 other gfy threads. There, you might have insider knowledge also.
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#7

02-20-2009, 02:16 PM

Yes i believe they do, but like the saying goes with great power comes great responsibility.

it is like any company/country/group some leaders handle the power for the betterment of the people and some handle the power for the benefit of themselves or a tight knit group.

i think they go into it with full belief but then some will become jaded when they realize that power that they grasp on the thoughts of people.
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Sly

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#8

02-20-2009, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by BradM

You completely missed the entire point of this thread as you did not answer the question. It was really simple. I guess you were looking to debate. You can go do that in about 8,000 other gfy threads. There, you might have insider knowledge also.

LOL.

How long are you going to carry this "insider" thing around?

I have no idea what higher-ups in the church think. There is the answer to your direct question. Happy?

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BradM

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#9

02-20-2009, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Sly

I have no idea what higher-ups in the church think. There is the answer to your direct question. Happy?

Yes - thank you.

I realize ADD is rampant on GFY which is why I put my disclaimer on top. I just didn't think it would only take 3 replies to toss the topic off track.
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#10

02-20-2009, 02:20 PM

I don't think they all do
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Sly

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#11

02-20-2009, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by BradM

Yes - thank you.

I realize ADD is rampant on GFY which is why I put my disclaimer on top. I just didn't think it would only take 3 replies to toss the topic off track.

My original reply wasn't that off-track as it applies to the higher-ups as well, in my opinion. My ADD is just fine, thanks.

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potter

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#12

02-20-2009, 02:32 PM

I think some do and some don't. In all circles.

Even in the lower ranks, I'm sure there are a few who do it because they're smart business men. I do believe the majority of them (like preachers n shit), feel they are there for god and believe he is real.

For the higher ups, I believe most of those in the public eye believe there is a god and they are doing "his" work. They believe in the bible, and the religion and truly feel the work they for for god is for the good of humans. However I also think there are a lot of people higher up who are complete business/corporate minded. They don't believe in a single thing their religion is preaching. To them it's simply about money and domination.
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#13

02-20-2009, 02:33 PM

And Mormons?!.... fuck that shit. that dude doesn't believe in shit. he tricked a bunch of people in believing him and now has his own religion.
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todhunter

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#14

02-20-2009, 02:34 PM

I think they believe.

In my religious past, I ran into a great many Catholic priests, monks and nuns. I wouldn't say they all believed in an "invisible man in the sky" but they all had a belief in God. A friend of my wife's family is a priest and his faith is unshakeable. He leads revival missions almost every week in Catholic churches around the country.

A neighbor of mine is an Episcopal minister. She, too, is a firm believer in God, but more in the "prime-mover" sense.

Not to say they all do, or that they all believe exactly the same thing, but the ones I have met share a belief in God.

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#15

02-20-2009, 02:36 PM

i think they all believe.

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#16

02-20-2009, 02:38 PM

If they're human, then they'll have doubts. The question is how they compensate for them. If I had to wager a guess, I'd say that there are probably a lot of higher-ups in religious institutions that do not believe in God as he was taught to them.

In order to maintain their service to whatever institution they're a part of, they probably formulate their own conceptions of God, or elevate charity, altruism, and prestige as greater reasons for faith than belief in the Almighty.
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#17

02-20-2009, 02:41 PM

I think they all believe big time.

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brizzad

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#18

02-20-2009, 02:41 PM

hi bradm how's the mortgage business?

also, Christianity is the most lucrative business of all imho
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BradM

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#19

02-20-2009, 02:42 PM

Tod,
Thank you - fantastic reply.
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#20

02-20-2009, 02:47 PM

i think religion was made up to combat a mis understood world and to try to curb humans primalistic internal code to survive at any cost..

You shall not kill - someone's friend got killed and he was upset about it.

You shall not commit adultery. - someones wife got fucked and he was upset about it.

You shall not steal - someone got jacked and was upset about it.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour - someone got accused of some shit that he didnt do and got upset about it.

You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour - someone got all their shit taken from them and couldnt do shit about it and got uspet about it.

it's all very simple.. people tried to create a higher unseen power with rules and consequences for people that broke those rules to try to keep some sort of order..

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kane

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#21

02-20-2009, 02:50 PM

I think they believe but it may be to differing degrees. I have met pastors/priests in my life who were so devout they believed that God steered their every action. I was in a car with one of them once while he was driving. We went to a fast food drive through and were eating as we drove. He was driving and before he ate he closed his eyes and bowed his head in prayer - as we drove down the road at 50mph - when I asked what they hell he was doing he told me not to worry, God was watching over us. These are the people who feel it is God's will no matter what happens.

I have also met some that believe in God, but feel like God is more of a guidance counselor of sorts and that you choose your own path and destiny.

So they both believe, but they might disagree on how much influence God has in your day to day life.

Are there some in the church who don't believe? Sure, but I think that it wouldn't be that many. It would be very difficult to devout your life to something you didn't believe in just to get a paycheck. I do, however, think there a decent number of priests who are people with fucked up pasts/childhoods who have run to religion as a sort of therapy and when it kind of works they immerse themselves into it. You have to ask the question:"What type of person would knowingly and freely give up sex, dating, marriage, parenthood and things like that in order to serve other people who are able to willingly partake in those things you have given up?" The answer, to me, is someone that is either very devout, or very fucked up. . .or maybe both.

Short version - Yes, I think most believe. I think there are a tiny few that don't and I think there are some that are very fucked up in head and have turned to the church as a way to deal with their problems (often times it doesn't work).
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PAR

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#22

02-20-2009, 03:23 PM

As an Atheist..
I have asked myself the same question..

After years of reading and talking things over do they ever think..
"This can't be true" .. Or "Wow these people really are sheep..."
And yes that last one was a ref to the good book..

I have read "the good book" more then once and read a few more that people worship... I found them to be a good book and thats all..

People have the right to believe in whatever gets them to the next day or makes them happy.
If you need, want, believe, or think there is a god I'd never try and change anyone's mind.

But at the end of the day I wonder, does Jimmy Swager believe or is it just a job/way of life..

My personal view is (and it is just that)... some in my mind must not "believe"...
Else why would the a group of people with so much power over others and with such a deep belief in good.. Have ever caused so much death/War/hardship.

Should they not be seeking understanding...
After all thats what I have got out of reading the books..

And don't even get me started about on all the other crap..
give to the poor well some sit on bags of cash..
done sin well some do things worse then evil..
some only helping the people they can convert..
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#23

02-20-2009, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by BradM

Okay, here's the deal:
1) I don't want to debate. I am not interested in debate. I don't want to argue or yell or make someone feel like I am attacking them because I am NOT.
2) This is completely legitimate and serious so please treat it as such to the best of your ability.

In your opinion, do higher-ups in the church believe in God, or are they in on some sort of "grand scheme?" Do pastors, reverends, and the people who hold power (cardinals etc) in the church truly believe in an invisible man in the sky who grants wishes - or do YOU think they are part of a bigger plan?

I'd like to hear what you have to say.

I think that many of them do really believe. I think a lot of people want to believe in a higher power.
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Varius

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#24

02-20-2009, 03:32 PM

I'd wager the higher up you go, the less pure their motives behind their choice of path.

Since the dawn of organized religion - not talking about cavemen praying to a shiny object - it's always been about power.

Why do you think Christianity in particular was so against people in the olden days being promiscuous and beat marriage and monogamy into society's brain? Pretty simple, they believed more marriages = more kids growing up in their religion, thus increasing it's power.

Probably a topic I could go on all day about, but time to head out for dinner, so I'll just leave with a famous catchphrase:

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Oh, and:

The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of members.

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#25

02-20-2009, 03:42 PM

I think that, in general, the religious people I know do pretty selfless things that lead me to think that really believe that they are going to get something great in return - whether it's eternal paradise or something shady - I wouldn't know.

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#26

02-20-2009, 03:52 PM

That is a very interesting questions that I have asked myself in the past. It could be a grand scheme and it is... but I think that the Church's leaders do really believe in God. Otherwise, too many people would be in the secret for too long and the secret would have been leaked by now.

Disclosure: I'm atheist

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#27

02-20-2009, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by BradM

Okay, here's the deal:
1) I don't want to debate. I am not interested in debate. I don't want to argue or yell or make someone feel like I am attacking them because I am NOT.
2) This is completely legitimate and serious so please treat it as such to the best of your ability.

In your opinion, do higher-ups in the church believe in God, or are they in on some sort of "grand scheme?" Do pastors, reverends, and the people who hold power (cardinals etc) in the church truly believe in an invisible man in the sky who grants wishes - or do YOU think they are part of a bigger plan?

I'd like to hear what you have to say.

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#28

02-20-2009, 04:12 PM

I don't think they believe as much as they preach. It is their job to teach the masses. they are after all human and sinning is a part of what we are. Even the pope would have a sinfull thought given a large tattaed nekked womenz walked in their field of view.

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#29

02-20-2009, 04:17 PM

i would say if the public had access to the archives of the Vatican we would all be much smarter

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skrinkladoo

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#30

02-20-2009, 04:27 PM

I was raised Catholic. Private School UP. I firmly believe that there is a God. I believe religion is an absolute abomination. I believe we keep repeating this rat race until we get it right and are permitted to be within the grace of God.

I believe that some NOT ALL religious officials truely believe in a higher power, some believe in only money ... I also believe it doesnt matter what others believe, its faith ... you have it or you dont. Science or Creationism.

Does it really matter? It remains a riddle without an answer, you have to die to find the answers - no religious "higher-up" can say with any more authority then you (or anyone else) that your faith is right or wrong. They can't say if God is real or just a necessity for some to lead a good life (social morality).

A post like this doesnt make us any wiser, to me it just incites a debate which is contra to its goal.

To your quest of knowledge however ... Godspeed.

Last edited by skrinkladoo; 02-20-2009, 04:28 PM.

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