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babeterminal

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#1

ccbill flexiforms no one gets paid

08-13-2017, 11:38 PM

this script shows at the end of the source code

<script> if ( !( ("cookie" in document && (document.cookie.length > 0 || (document.cookie = "test").indexOf.call(document.cookie, "test") > -1)) ) ) { $( ".no_cookies" ).show(); window.cookieMissing = true; } </script>

no one gets credit not even the webmaster of the site

api.ccbill dot com/wap-frontflex/flexforms/3c6e39d5-e7a8-4c9b-8f6c-fe8a7dfa3aba

webmaster only gets credit when account shows

api.ccbill dot com/wap-frontflex/flexforms/eaf9bd54-473a-424c-ab2c-4ec51062fe1e?clientAccnum=948101&clientSubacc=0000 &formName=211cc&submit=Instant+Credit+Card+Acce ss

no cookies at all means no one gets credit, so in my opinion those webmasters using flexiforms to stop referral credit are in fact losing credit for themselves

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#2

08-14-2017, 01:16 AM

Would be interesting to hear from CCBill how this is supposed to work.

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#3

08-14-2017, 01:53 AM

Have you put through a test sale?

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#4

08-15-2017, 03:27 AM

Originally posted by wehateporn

Have you put through a test sale?

no i did not

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#5

08-15-2017, 04:33 AM

last year i asked why i have active members for which i never received a signup email...

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#6

08-15-2017, 05:03 AM

Try reading the HTML source <POST> and inspect the hidden fields of the post
A form POST ALWAYS (should) has a referring URL. For billing servers an AUTHORIZED URL or it is rejected -- your link is no good^^

The seller's (merchant page) is always a known factor.
An affiliate has an ID in the URL that should be carried into the data posted -- This passed from the merchant to the processor -- somehow.

So far this is just drama.
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#7

08-15-2017, 05:10 AM

Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam

Try reading the HTML source <POST> and inspect the hidden fields of the post
A form POST ALWAYS (should) has a referring URL. For billing servers an AUTHORIZED URL or it is rejected -- your link is no good^^

The seller's (merchant page) is always a known factor.
An affiliate has an ID in the URL that should be carried into the data posted -- This passed from the merchant to the processor -- somehow.

So far this is just drama.

CCBill mostly doesn't know the referring URL for affiliate sales

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#8

08-15-2017, 05:54 AM

d'oh the merchant's pay form referral.
How do you think they know it's a affiliate referral -- magic chipmunks tell them?

Stick to wordpress ...
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#9

08-15-2017, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by wehateporn

Have you put through a test sale?

Originally posted by babeterminal

no i did not

You're publicly trashing a business on a baseless unverified claim

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#10

08-15-2017, 06:01 AM

Originally posted by babeterminal

this script shows at the end of the source code

<script> if ( !( ("cookie" in document && (document.cookie.length > 0 || (document.cookie = "test").indexOf.call(document.cookie, "test") > -1)) ) ) { $( ".no_cookies" ).show(); window.cookieMissing = true; } </script>

Translated :

if not a cookie in document and
(if not a cookie with length greater than zero OR cannot set test cookie) then
using jQuery select the html element with the CSS class named "no_cookies" and
show that html element in the document then
set a document variable name cookieMissing to true because
the surfer arrived here without having a cookie set in his browser.

The html element (with CSS class no_cookies) that will show will not actually show because it's display style is none.

<div class="no_cookies browser_warnings mask" style="display:none;">

Therefore I conclude that the flex form previously gave a warning to the
surfer to enable cookies and provided a link for the surfer to follow to learn how to
enable cookies.
The link provided is Enable cookies - Enabling cookies - Turn cookies on

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femdomdestiny

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#11

08-15-2017, 06:06 AM

I don't feel comfortable with those flex forms and I am telling that for a long time. Also, alt those N/A sales sources make me nervous, really nervous. My next project won't promote CCbill sites, that's for sure.

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#12

08-15-2017, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by femdomdestiny

I don't feel comfortable with those flex forms and I am telling that for a long time. Also, alt those N/A sales sources make me nervous, really nervous. My next project won't promote CCbill sites, that's for sure.

See the post above yours before you talk please (for your own benefit).

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#13

08-15-2017, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by blackmonsters

Translated :

if not a cookie in document and
(if not a cookie with length greater than zero OR cannot set test cookie) then
using jQuery select the html element with the CSS class named "no_cookies" and
show that html element in the document then
set a document variable name cookieMissing to true because
the surfer arrived here without having a cookie set in his browser.

The html element (with CSS class no_cookies) that will show will not actually show because it's display style is none.

<div class="no_cookies browser_warnings mask" style="display:none;">

Therefore I conclude that the flex form previously gave a warning to the
surfer to enable cookies and provided a link for the surfer to follow to learn how to
enable cookies.
The link provided is Enable cookies - Enabling cookies - Turn cookies on

PROOF :

https://youtu.be/GpD4kW4uo2c

See Sig for more of my work.

Thanks

Thank you. Well done!

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TFCash

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#14

08-15-2017, 09:37 AM

I ran the same test on my end with one of my sites, the only time that div should be visible is when someone is not using cookies. So yes you have to have cookies turned on to be able to buy something that is using flexforms.

The only reason that I have some of our sites setup on flexforms, is due to the fact that I can change the specials and run A/B testing a lot easier than with the jpost forms. For me to have another sales option on a jpost form I have to get someone from ccbill to set it up and get approval

For affiliates I would think that they like the new flexforms, due to the fact that cookies have to be on for them to work at all! With the jpost forms, if a surfer has cookies turned off, I still get the sale, but the affiliate gets no credit since it can't pull the id from the cookie

The other reason that I'm thinking about switching all forms over to flexforms, is a perception of how fast the sales page loads. I haven't done actual tests yet, but it seems that over the peak traffic of the evening, that jpost forms seem to take a bit longer to load than flexforms. I'm not sure if that is just because most traffic still flows thru the jpost forms, and once the traffic evens out on jpost vs flexforms that they will both take the same time to load or not

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Barry-xlovecam

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#15

08-15-2017, 10:30 AM

I don't think forcing a customer to enable cookies is the best answer to tracking. How often does the customer just close the window?
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#16

08-15-2017, 10:40 AM

With the legacy CCBILL payment page, I can view the source and verify that my affiliate ID is there.

This is not possible on the Flexforms payment page, and it is a problem. They really should add it so that affiliates can verify their tracking.
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#17

08-15-2017, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam

I don't think forcing a customer to enable cookies is the best answer to tracking. How often does the customer just close the window?

True. I'm not sure what they are thinking, and to be honest with you before I went and did this test, I didn't know that you had to have cookies enabled I guess that makes the flexforms a bit less desirable.

With the legacy CCBILL payment page, I can view the source and verify that my affiliate ID is there.

This is not possible on the Flexforms payment page, and it is a problem. They really should add it so that affiliates can verify their tracking.

Another great point, can't be said that ccbill ever really thinks anything over before they implement

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#18

08-15-2017, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by TFCash

I ran the same test on my end with one of my sites, the only time that div should be visible is when someone is not using cookies. So yes you have to have cookies turned on to be able to buy something that is using flexforms.

The only reason that I have some of our sites setup on flexforms, is due to the fact that I can change the specials and run A/B testing a lot easier than with the jpost forms. For me to have another sales option on a jpost form I have to get someone from ccbill to set it up and get approval

For affiliates I would think that they like the new flexforms, due to the fact that cookies have to be on for them to work at all! With the jpost forms, if a surfer has cookies turned off, I still get the sale, but the affiliate gets no credit since it can't pull the id from the cookie

The other reason that I'm thinking about switching all forms over to flexforms, is a perception of how fast the sales page loads. I haven't done actual tests yet, but it seems that over the peak traffic of the evening, that jpost forms seem to take a bit longer to load than flexforms. I'm not sure if that is just because most traffic still flows thru the jpost forms, and once the traffic evens out on jpost vs flexforms that they will both take the same time to load or not

So if a surfer has cookies OFF then the form does not show up?
How is that supposed to help sales? LOL

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#19

08-15-2017, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

So if a surfer has cookies OFF then the form does not show up?
How is that supposed to help sales? LOL

The page shows up but has a block of text sitting over the page stating you have to turn cookies on to use the form.

It doesn't help at all

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#20

08-15-2017, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by TFCash

The page shows up but has a block of text sitting over the page stating you have to turn cookies on to use the form.

It doesn't help at all

Yet according to CCBill (who I just called to discuss this with) they want ALL merchants to begin using these forms. They sent documentation on how to convert the jpost forms over to flexforms but now I am thinking not to use them....

(My jpost forms are responsive anyway.)

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#21

08-15-2017, 11:57 AM

I've been using CCBill's FlexForms since day one (well over a year ago) and they work fine in regards to counting affiliate sales. The affiliates *do* get credit for the sales.

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TFCash

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#22

08-15-2017, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

Yet according to CCBill (who I just called to discuss this with) they want ALL merchants to begin using these forms. They sent documentation on how to convert the jpost forms over to flexforms but now I am thinking not to use them....

(My jpost forms are responsive anyway.)

I've got a few domains that I'm using them, as I said because I like the A/B testing that I can do, I also like being able to offer up-sells without having to go thru the 2 or more day process to have a tech set it up on the ccbill side, and then wait for approval.

I've been using CCBill's FlexForms since day one (well over a year ago) and they work fine in regards to counting affiliate sales. The affiliates *do* get credit for the sales.

I don't believe that ccbill would do something that would affect the tracking to the affiliate, but it would be nice if they could include the affiliate code in the page so that they don't freak out

I'm also a bit concerned about the cookies being off, and not being able to signup, because it is hard enough to get sales these days, I have no wish to put up any road blocks, if someone doesn't want to be tracked with cookies, then by all means let them be

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babeterminal

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#23

08-15-2017, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam

Try reading the HTML source <POST> and inspect the hidden fields of the post
A form POST ALWAYS (should) has a referring URL. For billing servers an AUTHORIZED URL or it is rejected -- your link is no good^^

The seller's (merchant page) is always a known factor.
An affiliate has an ID in the URL that should be carried into the data posted -- This passed from the merchant to the processor -- somehow.

So far this is just drama.

this makes no sense

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babeterminal

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#24

08-15-2017, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by blackmonsters

Translated :

See Sig for more of my work.

Thanks

thanks clears a few things up, but do you like this working this way ?

not only affiliates worrying about all this then...........

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#25

08-15-2017, 12:52 PM

Thanks for the heads up babeterminal.
I've emailed them about this and am doing tests myself.

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babeterminal

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#26

08-15-2017, 01:05 PM

it makes me wonder why they would omit the ability to check all tracking numbers on both sides

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#27

08-15-2017, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by babeterminal

thanks clears a few things up, but do you like this working this way ?

not only affiliates worrying about all this then...........

I interpreted your original post as pointing to that script as something that prevented
cookies from working, which is not true.
I only answered that question.

As far as affiliate tracking; it can be done without using cookies.
You have to ask ccbill if they track this way.

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Barry-xlovecam

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#28

08-15-2017, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by babeterminal

this makes no sense

This was before it was known they were blocking no cookies.

You want a simple answer -- no cookies no laundry.
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#29

08-15-2017, 01:24 PM

In a far away land many many moons and asstards ago
GFY use to have more threads which were similar to this one
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#30

08-15-2017, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Barry-xlovecam

This was before it was known they were blocking no cookies.

You want a simple answer -- no cookies no laundry.

this makes even less sense, what are you trying to say?

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babeterminal

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#31

08-15-2017, 03:13 PM

it also seems everyday we see this

Account Inactive

CCBill LLC
1-888-596-9279
Email address: [email protected]

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#32

08-15-2017, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by babeterminal

it also seems everyday we see this

Account Inactive

CCBill LLC
1-888-596-9279
Email address: [email protected]

The account has to have had no traffic for some time for it to have gone inactive. But there are a lot of programs that have Gone Fishin' and don't keep up on account maintenance, so it happens

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#33

08-16-2017, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by Bladewire

You're publicly trashing a business on a baseless unverified claim

i am not trashing them i am having an open discussion to try and verify what is going on, and from blackmonsters posts it seems to me that they are trying to help the affiliate out by forcing the surfer into having cookies active to track sales better,

but this also opens a question, if they active cookies while on the ccbill join page how would the affiliate tracking code magically appear without clicking through the affiliate link,

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#34

08-16-2017, 12:53 AM

To be honest I wouldn't be too concerned with what happens to users with no cookies. It's a minimal amount of users. Basically everyone uses cookies. Ad blockers don't block CCBILL cookies to my knowledge.

If you use incognito/private browsing mode, cookies also work. Of course not if you quit the incognito browser window, then relaunch - then the cookie is lost. But in my experience, most sales are from impulse buys, not from returning visits. If cookies are the only way for affiliate tracking, you'd only use a tiny segment who use incognito mode AND buy later by typein. (As opposed to buying right away after using your link, or using your link again to visit the second time).

One thing I'd be more concerned about is if CCBILL affiliate tracking works correctly at all.
I do tests when promoting a new affiliate program. I use the CCBILL ref link, then check if my affiliate ID is present in the CCBILL payment page's HTML source.
Many times I have to send multiple clicks before I see my CCBILL affiliate ID appear there. It is very worrying.

And with FlexForms, you can't do such tests at all, since they won't show you the referring affiliate ID in the FlexForms payment page's HTML source code. You're totally in the dark with FlexForms programs.
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#35

08-16-2017, 06:08 AM

I know that this is a bit off topic, but it has to do with flexforms & ccbill so I thought I'd see if anyone else has seen this when they switch from jpost to flexform.

So yesterday I was moving a set of sites over, and 1 of the sites we wanted an up-sell so I used flexforms instead of jpost. When I moved the sales page over to flexforms, the form hits no longer show up on the form hits - flexstats ???? It shows up on the old form hits report, just not the flexstats. I had this same issue a year ago with one of my other sites, never got ccbill to explain what they had to do to fix it, it just started working one day

That's what really concerns me with ccbill, can't ever get them to admit that something is fucked up, and when they fix it, they act like it never happened

Let us know your experiences

btw I went ahead and ran actual sale last night with an affiliate code, and yes flexforms do credit affiliate sales even though the affiliate code doesn't show up on the page!

Tim

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#36

08-16-2017, 07:14 AM

^^^ that's good. However, you should be able to pass the affiliate code on to the billing server without depending on cookies.

Non-cookie traffic is not that common, as you say (at least among buyers).
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#37

08-16-2017, 11:11 AM

I have not had any problems with flex forms. I switched all of my jpost forms over to flex. I do not have data to support my claim, but I feel like sales are better. And it seems that week by week... there is more money paid out to affiliates.

If this stuff didn't work correctly, CCBill would be in some deep shit. I am sure these forms are working correctly.

It would be nice though, if the aff. Id would show in view source. That would add some confidence for sure.

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#38

08-16-2017, 11:34 AM

On CCBill's site: " If the consumer does not accept third party cookie tracking data we have a redundancy in place that will track the sale for that consumer for 24 hours."

Also, go into FF, right click > view page info > Security tab > show cookies button.
Better to check this way rather than just looking at the source.

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#39

08-16-2017, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Colmike7

On CCBill's site: " If the consumer does not accept third party cookie tracking data we have a redundancy in place that will track the sale for that consumer for 24 hours."

Also, go into FF, right click > view page info > Security tab > show cookies button.
Better to check this way rather than just looking at the source.

thanks thats one way to check the website is using the same cc webmaster account, i presume sub account numbers do not show this way but will check more often

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#40

08-16-2017, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by babeterminal

thanks thats one way to check the website is using the same cc webmaster account, i presume sub account numbers do not show this way but will check more often

Hey, I just realized that my reply might be confusing. I meant FireFox, not Flex Forms, to see what cookies are being set while on the signup page.
I'm not really sure how they're labeled, though, so I can't give more input on that..

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#41

08-16-2017, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by phil-flash

I have not had any problems with flex forms. I switched all of my jpost forms over to flex. I do not have data to support my claim, but I feel like sales are better. And it seems that week by week... there is more money paid out to affiliates.

If this stuff didn't work correctly, CCBill would be in some deep shit. I am sure these forms are working correctly.

It would be nice though, if the aff. Id would show in view source. That would add some confidence for sure.

True.

We've been using flexforms for years, affiliates haven't complained..

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