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#1

Regional Pricing: Good Or Bad?

05-21-2017, 08:03 AM

For years I've had regional pricing enabled for all my CCBill websites. For those who do not know what "regional pricing" is, it's where the customer pays the converted price, not the actual join price. In other words, if you have a monthly Membership for $29.95(US dollars), depending on where in the world the customer lives that price will NOT be $29.95. It may be $32.53, or $41.94 etc.

Today I got a 3 month recurring sale for one of my sites. That 3 month recurring is supposed to be $59.95 (recurs at $59.95). But when I checked the CCBill Admin I saw what the customer actually paid and I was shocked!

He paid $69.16(Euros) recurring at $57.62(Euros)! Now what made it to ME was a whopping $73.08(US dollars). What the customer should have paid was $53.49(Euros).

So obviously you make more per transaction with regional pricing BUT I am wondering if this is suppressing sales and turning off customers? I would certainly be pissed if a website said "$59.95" but it actually ended up costing me way more than that.

So as a test I am turning OFF regional pricing for a month to see if this affects signups. What is your experience with regional pricing? Do you find it makes you more money/joins or less? Does it piss off your customers? Would you join a website that had this feature?

Thanks in advance!

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#2

05-21-2017, 08:26 AM

When I, as a European, are hit with these "conversions" I do everything to avoid it. Like the plague!

I will try to signup with a giftcard/Walmart onetime Visa card, from my US IP address, via a US VPS and whatever else is required. I am ready to pay the fee for the service, but I certainly have no interest in CCBill or any other processor doing the conversion for me, at those horrendous rates. I will do anything in my power to get away from any such sort of regional pricing.

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#3

05-21-2017, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Adraco

When I, as a European, are hit with these "conversions" I do everything to avoid it. Like the plague!

I will try to signup with a giftcard/Walmart onetime Visa card, from my US IP address, via a US VPS and whatever else is required. I am ready to pay the fee for the service, but I certainly have no interest in CCBill or any other processor doing the conversion for me, at those horrendous rates. I will do anything in my power to get away from any such sort of regional pricing.

This is my feeling too. I remember about seven years ago I traveled to Europe and saw one of my sites. I had maybe ten at that time, I was really a total (almost) noob. LOL When I saw the converted price I freaked and called CCBill. I'm embarrassed now how irate I was, being so new to any ecommerce, but remember clearly one thing they said to me: "Why would you want to turn off something that is making you more money?"

Now this was in 2011 or whenever. TODAY I am wondering if it's turning off customers like you described about yourself. Being a semi-veteran nowadays I consider the customr experience first so I agree 100% with you.

However, the real 'proof' is in the pudding (or Euros or dollars). If I make significantly less money and see less joins then the regional pricing is going back on. But my initial feeling is exactly your thoughts Adraco.

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#4

05-21-2017, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

However, the real 'proof' is in the pudding (or Euros or dollars). If I make significantly less money and see less joins then the regional pricing is going back on. But my initial feeling is exactly your thoughts Adraco.

Please keep us updated as to how your experiment goes, I'd like to know if you see an increase in sales due to the price being lower in most places with regional pricing turned off.

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#5

05-21-2017, 11:09 AM

Is that "regional" pricing assuming that you are remitting the VAT tax that your customer thinks he is being charged? The rebill amount seems wrong or is quoted exclusive of foreign jurisdiction VAT tax ...

Pay site porn is subject to VAT taxes https://www.taxamo.com/

Live performances where human action is necessary is exempt (by EU countries). Automated services, digital subscriptions, software, hosting ... etc. are taxable.

This is the only way this "regional" pricing makes any sense. CCBill has a European subsidiary company. This may be their way of keeping their nose's clean. That operation does not process for US merchants -- they process merchants in the VISA Europe territory. Or did until a few months ago ...
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#6

05-21-2017, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

Do you find it makes you more money/joins or less? Does it piss off your customers? Would you join a website that had this feature?

Have you ever received complaint emails from subscribers regarding CCBill's regional pricing?

I think it's possible if you had multiple billers on your join page and they saw a stark difference in pricing (or your join page listed one price and the CCBill page listed something drastically different), then you'd get some pissed off people, but if the only price they ever see is whatever's shown on the actual credit card input page, then it may be something you probably don't need to worry about.

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#7

05-21-2017, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by ZENRA

Have you ever received complaint emails from subscribers regarding CCBill's regional pricing?

I think it's possible if you had multiple billers on your join page and they saw a stark difference in pricing (or your join page listed one price and the CCBill page listed something drastically different), then you'd get some pissed off people, but if the only price they ever see is whatever's shown on the actual credit card input page, then it may be something you probably don't need to worry about.

Actually I have had a few emails from potential Members complaining of this very issue. They were all in European countries. Not many but a few. But I have a feeling people are smart enough these days to check US prices and would do like Adraco said he would do. I would do the same.

Time will tell.

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#8

05-21-2017, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

Actually I have had a few emails from potential Members complaining of this very issue. They were all in European countries. Not many but a few. But I have a feeling people are smart enough these days to check US prices and would do like Adraco said he would do. I would do the same.

Time will tell.

Smart enough and willing to do that for a service like Spotify, I am sure is quite different than that to join a porn site. I am am having to use gift cards, VPN's just to get the actual prices, then why bother. Next stop the tubes.

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#9

05-21-2017, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

Actually I have had a few emails from potential Members complaining of this very issue. They were all in European countries. Not many but a few. But I have a feeling people are smart enough these days to check US prices and would do like Adraco said he would do. I would do the same.

Time will tell.

ErosExotica - Join Now - Instant Access - 100% Secure -> shows pricing on the join page. I'd get rid of it here if I were you. 'One Month Recurring: $29.95' becomes 'One Month Recurring', etc.

Unless they're signing up from USA, they're probably going to see a different charge on their credit card statement and might be confused already. CCBill and Epoch automatically show the price in their local currency so you can leave the guess-work up to them.

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#10

05-21-2017, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by ZENRA

ErosExotica - Join Now - Instant Access - 100% Secure -> shows pricing on the join page. I'd get rid of it here if I were you. 'One Month Recurring: $29.95' becomes 'One Month Recurring', etc.

Unless they're signing up from USA, they're probably going to see a different charge on their credit card statement and might be confused already. CCBill and Epoch automatically show the price in their local currency so you can leave the guess-work up to them.

Maybe it's time to revisit this too. A few years back I did some testing and displaying the prices increased Joins. Most paysites will show the prices along with the options, at least the dozens or so I've visited.

Also, regional pricing is now turned off so the displayed price should be the fixed price for potential Members.

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#11

05-21-2017, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

Maybe it's time to revisit this too. A few years back I did some testing and displaying the prices increased Joins. Most paysites will show the prices along with the options, at least the dozens or so I've visited.

I found the same to be true, when a/b testing we got a lower click-thru, but higher signup % when we showed the price on our join page, versus making them decide on the ccbill page. That's been over a year since we ran those test, might be time to run them again to see if the same still holds true

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#12

05-21-2017, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

Maybe it's time to revisit this too. A few years back I did some testing and displaying the prices increased Joins. Most paysites will show the prices along with the options, at least the dozens or so I've visited.

The chances are if a (potential) subscriber is already on your join page and is strongly considering joining, he'll click to your credit card input page with a really high probability whether or not prices are shown. Might as well save the actual 'price display' portion at the very end of the transaction. And of course if your join page shows the prices in USD and CCBill/Epoch show something different in their local currency, they may get a bit confused and may potentially put away the credit card.

Most paysites do show prices on the join.htm page. Perhaps it works? Perhaps not? Perhaps most do it because all the other sites are doing it so it 'should' work?

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#13

05-21-2017, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by ZENRA

The chances are if a (potential) subscriber is already on your join page and is strongly considering joining, he'll click to your credit card input page with a really high probability whether or not prices are shown. Might as well save the actual 'price display' portion at the very end of the transaction. And of course if your join page shows the prices in USD and CCBill/Epoch show something different in their local currency, they may get a bit confused and may potentially put away the credit card.

Most paysites do show prices on the join.htm page. Perhaps it works? Perhaps not? Perhaps most do it because all the other sites are doing it so it 'should' work?

All very good points. This is what a/b testing is for, as TFCash has done. I will take the month of June to do some tests. It will be interesting to see. Trends do change and you are right, many do follow the leader and do not do actual testing themselves. I do.

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#14

05-21-2017, 10:20 PM

I never used regional pricing. I thought it was a good idea, but not a good idea that would work in reality. You might need a couple of months to see for sure.

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#15

05-22-2017, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by ruff

I never used regional pricing. I thought it was a good idea, but not a good idea that would work in reality. You might need a couple of months to see for sure.

Oh so NOW you tell me!! LOL

Yeah a couple months maybe leave it off for the summer....but one month will give me some info but yes, especially during summer slowdown, more time may be needed to really judge.

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#16

05-22-2017, 12:43 PM

I've never received a complaint on regional pricing. Be very interested to read the results of your test. When initially implemented, it seemed to give a slight bump in revenue. I sort of assume it slightly raises the rate some places and lowers it others, depending on local currency and economic strength, but I've never taken a deep dive.

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#17

05-22-2017, 01:03 PM

my only experience of it was a while back a chica I work with wanted that for her clients. I wasn't even sure my gateway could do it so I started out by asking my own euro dudes what they thought of the idea and each one made really clear that they hate it

would that prevent them from making purchases? I don't know, testing results would def be interesting

either way it feels a bit shady in practice to me.

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#18

05-22-2017, 04:57 PM

I´m still not with you how it works?

When we were using regional pricing with ccbill, we thought it was to convert to the currency, simple as this.

The conversion rates should remain the same shouldn´t they?

Is it taking into account the bank charges? Why the extra 15€ or there abouts?

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#19

05-22-2017, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by GspotProductions

I´m still not with you how it works?

When we were using regional pricing with ccbill, we thought it was to convert to the currency, simple as this.

The conversion rates should remain the same shouldn´t they?

Is it taking into account the bank charges? Why the extra 15? or there abouts?

Not sure. With the example that set me off, the Euro price should have been lower than the US price of $59.95 but instead it was $69 Euro instead of 53. I thought it was an old Join form because I used to have $69.95(US) so that's why I checked. We are switching servers this month so I thought maybe an old HTML page got uploaded somewhere.

But nope, it was due to regional pricing. And the recurring price was also not right and not the same as the initial but maybe that was a projection because it would occur three months in the future. Who knows, it looked all fucked up to me. LOL

But I've also noticed that with most changes it can take a couple weeks to propulgate throughout the web, people to clear cache, etc. So two months is how long I am going for now to test.

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#20

05-22-2017, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by GspotProductions

I´m still not with you how it works?

From what I've seen, CCBill instead of just doing an exact conversion from USD -> <currency>, will 'pretty it up' in your favor so $29.95USD may simply be upped to 29.95EUR.

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#21

05-23-2017, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by ZENRA

From what I've seen, CCBill instead of just doing an exact conversion from USD -> <currency>, will 'pretty it up' in your favor so $29.95USD may simply be upped to 29.95EUR.

Yeah the pricing does not make sense tho. Converting to Euros should be a simple calculation but how does a join price cost more than the advertised price?

Believe me, I want to make more money just not piss off potential customers.

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#22

07-19-2017, 08:56 AM

Hey PornNerd -

Did you ever get the regional pricing shut off ? If so did it make any difference to your sales ratios ??

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#23

07-19-2017, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

Believe me, I want to make more money just not piss off potential customers.

exactly this PN...

and thank you ZENRA for the simple explanation

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#24

07-19-2017, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by TFCash

Hey PornNerd -

Did you ever get the regional pricing shut off ? If so did it make any difference to your sales ratios ??

Thanks!
Tim

I was going to wait til the end of July to post this but since you asked....YES it did make a (positive) difference!

More joins, more revenue, no complaints from potential customers. Regional Pricing is, for me, staying OFF.

Anyone else using it then decided to turn it off? What are your results if you did so?

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#25

07-19-2017, 11:02 AM

if you wouldn't mind can you share % of increases ??

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#26

07-19-2017, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by TFCash

if you wouldn't mind can you share % of increases ??

Thanks!

Well since it is summer slowdown time that's why I wanted to give the stats a couple months to work themselves out. I should have better data as we roll through the Fall and Winter. But for now I am seeing about a 15% bump plus more 'steady' joins (as opposed to strange gaps that can last hours).

I've also noticed about 5-8 more $99.95 yearly joins a week (affiliates' favorite price point because it means $50 in their pocket per sale). The $59.95 price option (3 months access) has also seen an increase of 2-3 more per week. I suspect this is because the price is now 'fixed'. Before, if a potential customer revisited the Tour several times from a VPN then he may have seen several different prices for the same join option. Not good..

Overall I am happy with these test results. I do suggest others with paysites and regional pricing turned ON do tests to see if they get similar positive results with regional pricing turned OFF.

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#27

07-19-2017, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

Overall I am happy with these test results. I do suggest others with paysites and regional pricing turned ON do tests to see if they get similar positive results with regional pricing turned OFF.

I think before any sites quickly jump the gun with this, it may make sense to keep it on if your join page only shows CCBill links (ie, your affiliate join page if you've a CCBill affiliate program). Assuming the join page on your server doesn't show pricing and only the actual CCBill credit card input page does, the issue of regional pricing should be moot as it's not like your potential subscribers will see two different prices.

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#28

07-19-2017, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by ZENRA

I think before any sites quickly jump the gun with this, it may make sense to keep it on if your join page only shows CCBill links (ie, your affiliate join page if you've a CCBill affiliate program). Assuming the join page on your server doesn't show pricing and only the actual CCBill credit card input page does, the issue of regional pricing should be moot as it's not like your potential subscribers will see two different prices.

Well, on my Join pages (HTML) I do display the prices. And wouldn't a surfer see a different price once he hits the CCBill join? That's the point - he will. And if he hits that page from different countries via a VPN he would see different prices each time the form pops up.

But as always, do A-B testing yourself to make sure it works for your setup.

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#29

07-19-2017, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

Well, on my Join pages (HTML) I do display the prices. And wouldn't a surfer see a different price once he hits the CCBill join? That's the point - he will. And if he hits that page from different countries via a VPN he would see different prices each time the form pops up.

But as always, do A-B testing yourself to make sure it works for your setup.

Yes, if one's join page shows the pricing and the prices on the CCBill page are drastically different, it could lead to a pissed off surfer who may not subscribe. I agree with you there that in this situation Regional Pricing could be a bad thing and may result in lost sales.

Regarding VPN switching, I can't imagine most surfers being that pro-active about getting the best deal. I think most will see your site, want in, and join then and there. Very very few will probably think: "alright, let's spend the next 30 minutes connecting with VPN servers across the world to see if I can save $5".

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#30

07-19-2017, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by ZENRA

Yes, if one's join page shows the pricing and the prices on the CCBill page are drastically different, it could lead to a pissed off surfer who may not subscribe. I agree with you there that in this situation Regional Pricing could be a bad thing and may result in lost sales.

Regarding VPN switching, I can't imagine most surfers being that pro-active about getting the best deal. I think most will see your site, want in, and join then and there. Very very few will probably think: "alright, let's spend the next 30 minutes connecting with VPN servers across the world to see if I can save $5".

LOL No they probably wouldn't do it like you said. But I can see a scenario where they visit the site, check it out on a Tuesday (for example), bookmark it, come back on Thursday just before payday, check it out again, then come back again on Saturday night to join once the wife goes to sleep. So if he sees three different prices each time....

Maybe a better question is: what kind of scenario is there where Regional Pricing is a GOOD thing?

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#31

07-19-2017, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by The Porn Nerd

Maybe a better question is: what kind of scenario is there where Regional Pricing is a GOOD thing?

I feel like to some extent we're both playing armchair staticians here because we're probably just basing this off of our own subscriber history maybe along with personal anecdotes. And on that note, so long as what you are offering is unique and there is no major join page/credit card page price discrepancies, I think having regional pricing will not hurt. Most users won't notice and the few who do probably won't care. We're selling porn here, not electric toothbrushes on Amazon. I think it's safe to say that the majority of potential subscribers probably aren't going to spend 30+ minutes reading reviews, price-surfing, fretting about customer service, etc. Rather, they're horny, they have a CC out and ready, and they're going to use it!

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