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Paul Markham

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#1

What makes a girl, in your opinion, a professional model?

01-04-2009, 01:52 AM

Some girls just have the right approach and some never will. Some are professional from day one and some never will be. I'm sure that the same in most places where people shoot. Only the percentages will change.

I got this idea from another thread where it was posted about girls not cancelling and turning up on time to a shoot were indications of her professionalism. It was also pointed out her willingness to work.

Arriving and time keeping are good manners and a newbie should be able to do it. Willing to work is also something a newbie can do.

So what in your opinion makes a girl a "professional model".

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#2

01-04-2009, 02:05 AM

I have no idea. A professional model means that they haven't figured out how much more money that they could make by having their own site instead of making a thousand to fifteen hundred bucks a shoot. Short term thinking. I try to stay away from that as it does me no good.

On the other hand, when I had a content company, the best models were the ones who were on time and weren't fucked up. As long as those conditions were met (and of course the girl was good looking) then it was a piece of cake to shoot them and make money.

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#3

01-04-2009, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by Paul Markham

.

So what in your opinion makes a girl a "professional model"?

paying them ...

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#4

01-04-2009, 02:16 AM

If she gets naked on camera for money, she is not a professional "Model". Which indicates, that if she has shot with you, she is not a professional.

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#5

01-04-2009, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by HomeFry

If she gets naked on camera for money, she is not a professional "Model". Which indicates, that if she has shot with you, she is not a professional.

Holy.. you can't be more wrong.

I had fucked up girls get naked on camera. Fucked up as in good looking, but fucked up in the head. Some wanted to be professional "models", yet had this laughter panic attack at times. Some just couldn't help but OVERACT screaming like giving birth during a fake orgasm.

Jesus, there were even these almost good looking girls that could make great amateur models, but would never ever be able to pose right for the camera. They looked like... chickens? in those poses.

And yes, there is the issue of models being plain old non responsible, turning up late and hungover for a shoot is never a good thing. Unless you want to give her some booze and shoot a drunk scene.
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#6

01-04-2009, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by InternetIsForPorn

Holy.. you can't be more wrong.

I had fucked up girls get naked on camera. Fucked up as in good looking, but fucked up in the head. Some wanted to be professional "models", yet had this laughter panic attack at times. Some just couldn't help but OVERACT screaming like giving birth during a fake orgasm.

Jesus, there were even these almost good looking girls that could make great amateur models, but would never ever be able to pose right for the camera. They looked like... chickens? in those poses.

And yes, there is the issue of models being plain old non responsible, turning up late and hungover for a shoot is never a good thing. Unless you want to give her some booze and shoot a drunk scene.

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Paul Markham

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#7

01-04-2009, 03:37 AM

What any newbie should be able to do. None of this is "professional" and yes I understand if we pay her she is professional. But we do call some work Amateur porn when it was clearly produced by someone for money.

1. Turn up on time, ready and willing to do the work. Able is something she should have a clue about but will pick up how to refine and perfect it as time goes on. So long as shooters direct her.

Punctuality is good manners, if there is a problem most have mobile phones. And here's the problem. Not sure what it's like in the US today but when I shot there newbies did turn up on time, the older hands turn up late. Today in Czech it's the experienced models who turn up late. When you complain they tell you no one else says anything.

Able to do the work. Again common sense and courtesy, not going on a drunken binge the night before, turning up when she's menstruating or fucking her boyfriend in the morning and turning up with a sore ass. Again it's not the newbies who do this, it's the girls who have been taught shooters will put up with any crap they feel like. Those examples happened to me, never with a newbie so far.

We are the guys they learn from, that turning up late or not at all is OK. Turning up on a day she clearly should not of bothered is acceptable. They can cancel a shoot an hour before or not canceling it and phoning a few days later to rebook.

None of the above is professional. It's common sense and courtesy. They would not get a job paying $1,000 a month with that approach, so why do they expect to get one for a $1,000 a day? Because some shooters let them.

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#8

01-04-2009, 03:56 AM

So what do I term as "Professional"? And yes this is the opinion of an old Buddy duddy who is way past it. Just like a lot of the guys buying porn. LOL

A girl who is looking after her body, looks and face because it's her job to. She will be in the gym a couple of times a week, or some keep fit activity. Under a sun lamp once a week, not too brown and not white as a ghost, she will look after her hair and complexion because she has to. Because she's a professional.

She will have a wardrobe of clothing to cover the range of her abilities, niches and styles. Most shooters are more than willing to give her clothes they have shot already. If she asks nicely and is pleasant. Saves me dumping it. If a shooter says he's shooting her for up market she will know not to pull out something she bought for $5 in Wal-Mart. ;)

Make up. Most of the time she should have a professional make up artist get her ready for shoots. A professional has her own make up kit just in case.

This is the most important thing.

When she works she gives all of herself to it. She should know this work is more about what's between her ears than what's between her legs. She should know how to pose and act correctly within the niche and style, how to fake an orgasm or even how not to bother and deliver a real one maybe turned up a notch for the camera. She should know how she looks in front of the camera. And know how to give of her best.

Behind the camera she should be a pleasure to get on with.

Because when everyone has shot her and her days of being fresh meat are over she will want to go around the track again and again, and again. Her earnings will rely on her ability to make content that sells, again and again. And not be a total pain in the ass to shooters.

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01-04-2009, 04:01 AM

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#10

01-04-2009, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by Paul Markham

So what in your opinion makes a girl a "professional model".

I think you've already answered your own question at this point.

I'd summarize it by saying I'd consider her a "professional model" if her work ethic/personality makes me want to work with her again.

We've all worked with those models who make a 4-hour shoot seem like eight and you start looking at your watch after the first hour thinking, "Jeezus...what a waste of my time."
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#11

01-04-2009, 07:59 AM

Simple, a professional model is a person who makes the majority of their "living" by modeling (51% or more). Simple and clear explanation. IMO

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#12

01-04-2009, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by Paul Markham

So what do I term as "Professional"? And yes this is the opinion of an old Buddy duddy who is way past it. Just like a lot of the guys buying porn. LOL

A girl who is looking after her body, looks and face because it's her job to. She will be in the gym a couple of times a week, or some keep fit activity. Under a sun lamp once a week, not too brown and not white as a ghost, she will look after her hair and complexion because she has to. Because she's a professional.

She will have a wardrobe of clothing to cover the range of her abilities, niches and styles. Most shooters are more than willing to give her clothes they have shot already. If she asks nicely and is pleasant. Saves me dumping it. If a shooter says he's shooting her for up market she will know not to pull out something she bought for $5 in Wal-Mart. ;)

Make up. Most of the time she should have a professional make up artist get her ready for shoots. A professional has her own make up kit just in case.

This is the most important thing.

When she works she gives all of herself to it. She should know this work is more about what's between her ears than what's between her legs. She should know how to pose and act correctly within the niche and style, how to fake an orgasm or even how not to bother and deliver a real one maybe turned up a notch for the camera. She should know how she looks in front of the camera. And know how to give of her best.

Behind the camera she should be a pleasure to get on with.

Because when everyone has shot her and her days of being fresh meat are over she will want to go around the track again and again, and again. Her earnings will rely on her ability to make content that sells, again and again. And not be a total pain in the ass to shooters.

I couldn't agree more, however most think the gash between their legs is all they need to bring to a shoot, sad but true. Not in all cases but I have see it a few times(no actually to many times)

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#13

01-04-2009, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by RayVega

Simple, a professional model is a person who makes the majority of their "living" by modeling (51% or more). Simple and clear explanation. IMO

Perfect definition and one that also applies to photographers
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#14

01-04-2009, 08:20 AM

If she actually shows up to the shoot, she is half way there.... heh

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#15

01-04-2009, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by RayVega

Simple, a professional model is a person who makes the majority of their "living" by modeling (51% or more). Simple and clear explanation. IMO

This would be the definition

the rest of it is personality and work ethics

believe me - without free porn, just as many people will seek porn out on the Internet, and many more will pay if there is no free alternative, its not like sex is a fad - it can be milked much like any renewable resource - long term

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#16

01-04-2009, 08:42 AM

models are professional when their boobs make a loud slapping sound when they bounce their boobs. The sound resembles a spanking noise & can be heard in the next room even when the door is closed.
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#17

01-04-2009, 10:23 AM

A model can only be as professional as her agent will allow.
By that I mean you can have the best most dedicated young woman who is ready to work eager to please, be totally unprepared because her agent never gave her details of your shoot. This happens time and time again to me, I call or e-mail their agent tell them the call time, the location, the pay rate, how she will be paid ( check, cash, food stamp) who she is working with, transportation, makeup and clothing requirements if any, etc. About 60% of the time the model arrives unprepared or late because johnny manager didn't tell them shit...

This is why more and more I hire girls who reply to my postings on message boards and referrals from colleges and friends. If these girls turn up on time have their IDs ready, know what's expected of them, have their wardrobe and make up with them as requested, dont keep stopping to use a cell phone and can converse somewhat intelligently then in my book she is professional. Professionalism in my opinion has little to do with how long they have been in the business, "professionalism is a state of mind"

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#18

01-04-2009, 10:26 AM

Looks and attitude

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#19

01-04-2009, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by ContentSHOOTER

I couldn't agree more, however most think the gash between their legs is all they need to bring to a shoot, sad but true. Not in all cases but I have see it a few times(no actually to many times)

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#20

01-04-2009, 10:35 AM

#1 dont let her manager or shooter stick their old cocks in her
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#21

01-04-2009, 10:36 AM

Do they get paid? Then a professional.
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#22

01-04-2009, 10:38 AM

Any woman who can take an ass full of cock and keep smiling is in my book, a pro.....

sorry to interject, I'm putting my head down and leaving your thread now.

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#23

01-04-2009, 10:40 AM

A vagina.

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#24

01-04-2009, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by pornask

you've only seen bubba's dick before it gets shoved down your throat after supper, you fucking fag

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#25

01-04-2009, 10:41 AM

My personal answer is: A girl who does what was agreed to before the shoot, shows up on time with her IDs and has a positive outlook on the shoot. Plus a good model doesn't keep asking "how many more pics" or "how many more positions", etc..

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#26

01-04-2009, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by pornask

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#27

01-04-2009, 10:52 AM

1. Must be really beautiful .. (Aria Giovanni or Peaches kinda beauty)
2. Must not act like a whore
3. Should not agree to do hardcore ... all softcorish
4. Must have a resume that clearly says I am a fucking pro model
5. Most provide several references
6. Last but DEFINITIVELY NOT LEAST ... must NOT .. have a cock...

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#28

01-04-2009, 10:59 AM

Calling a girl a "professional" or even a "model" just because she'll get naked in front of the camera is like calling every webmaster a "business man/woman".
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#29

01-04-2009, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by hypedough

My personal answer is: A girl who does what was agreed to before the shoot, shows up on time with her IDs and has a positive outlook on the shoot. Plus a good model doesn't keep asking "how many more pics" or "how many more positions", etc..

In other words - a Spieglergirl!

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#30

01-04-2009, 12:09 PM

well first qualification is she gets paid for showing her stuff
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#31

01-04-2009, 12:13 PM

Professionalism of the model vs my efforts to create content of our standards
Less efforts=more professionalism
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#32

01-04-2009, 12:28 PM

What makes a girl, in your opinion, a professional model?

In her personal life she dodges cum. At work she does not.
In her personal life she doesn't take it up the ass. At work she does.
And she has the ability to convince us that she's into anything she's doing.

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#33

01-04-2009, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Robbie

I have no idea. A professional model means that they haven't figured out how much more money that they could make by having their own site instead of making a thousand to fifteen hundred bucks a shoot. Short term thinking. I try to stay away from that as it does me no good.

I have never met a sponsor willing to put up enough money to turn a freelance girl into an exclusive girl with her own site. Most of the time the offers are vague and in the laps of the Gods or low.

For instance the types of girls sponsors want for an exclusive deal are the attractive ones who will sell a site. These girls as you point out can earn $500 to $1,500 a day or even a scene. They can also work twice a week and keep working year after year. So a good looking girl working a year is looking at $25,000 to $75,000 a year. Not over working, not tied to one company and not gambling the site will sell and her "partner" will keep his end and not rip her off.

The offers are usually "You do the shoot for free (or up to the minimum) and we pay you 10% (or what ever) of the turn over or profits. For a good looking girl who will make a site really tick that's not good enough. Sponsors need to show they are really confident the plan will work and do what Vivid do. Pay her a lot of money.

And in the end it's $$$ on the table that count.

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#34

01-04-2009, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by Bama

Calling a girl a "professional" or even a "model" just because she'll get naked in front of the camera is like calling every webmaster a "business man/woman".

That is so funny.

Most of the guys here saying if she takes money she's professional know exactly what I mean or fall into your definition.

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#35

01-04-2009, 02:29 PM

it would be nice if they were 'professional' in the sense of the word that means somebody does a job to the best of their ability, shows up on time, good attitude and all the rest.

good luck - you're dealing with young girls, expecting them to be professional is asking and expecting a lot. I know some girls are very professional about their modeling/porn careers but unfortunately the customer who buys this stuff and the affiliates who promote it don't care how easy the girl is to work with and how hard she works - so I'll take the pinhead/brat/bitch who stands out above the rest over the professional with average looks and personality. it's show biz - look at what shit managers and agents put up with from mainstream actors and actresses and rock stars and rap artists and prima donna pro athletes.

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#36

01-04-2009, 03:04 PM

Most of what has been said I agree with but I would add a couple of points for shooting erotic videos, the first time girl brings a spontinaity and freshness to shoots that the pros sometimes fail to bring.

For photo shoots experienced models can give you far more in suggestions and poses....

Sadly good attitude is not really linked to professionalism....

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#37

01-04-2009, 03:18 PM

Professionalism is professionalism.

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#38

01-04-2009, 07:48 PM

Professional model?

That's a girl who has been paid for advertising campaigns and makes more than $50k a year. Sex is optional, not required.

I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...

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#39

01-04-2009, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by RayVega

Simple, a professional model is a person who makes the majority of their "living" by modeling (51% or more). Simple and clear explanation. IMO

Yeah I could go with that.
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#40

01-04-2009, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by RedShoe

And she has the ability to convince us that she's into anything she's doing.

For Porn.. this is so important.

The ability to convince the fuckers that are paying for this shit that she 100% loves whatever niche/fetish/pose she is doing The minute the switch flips that this isn't about what SHE likes.. but about what is going to fill her bank account and the photographers bank account.. she becomes a professional...

Like that twit the other day who turned Mandy Blake down.. because she wasn't "into" BBWs... Uh... you're not a professional model when you're stopping and thinking about what you're "into" or not... It's your job to look like you're into just about anything for the sake of having a career.

Plus all the body maintenance stuff that Paul mentioned earlier too.

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#41

01-04-2009, 08:34 PM

There is no such thing as a professional model.
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#42

01-04-2009, 08:39 PM

She cashes her check within 90 days so it's good (lol)

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#43

01-04-2009, 09:14 PM

A professional model is somebody does best of her ability, shows up on time, good attitude and productive on the advertisement's side too.

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#44

01-04-2009, 10:08 PM

A professional Model is one that makes a living off of modeling. Punctuality plays a big roll in any job, but especially modeling. Not only nude modeling. A model can make a great career out of just modeling if she takes it serious. I'm talking Big Money!

Magazines, Billboards and all sorts of print ads pay BIG BUCKS.

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#45

01-04-2009, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by CyberAge-Dave

A professional Model is one that makes a living off of modeling. Punctuality plays a big roll in any job, but especially modeling. Not only nude modeling. A model can make a great career out of just modeling if she takes it serious. I'm talking Big Money!

Magazines, Billboards and all sorts of print ads pay BIG BUCKS.

Exactly.

That, my friends, is a PROfessional model.

I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...

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#46

01-04-2009, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by Mutt

it would be nice if they were 'professional' in the sense of the word that means somebody does a job to the best of their ability, shows up on time, good attitude and all the rest.

good luck - you're dealing with young girls, expecting them to be professional is asking and expecting a lot. I know some girls are very professional about their modeling/porn careers but unfortunately the customer who buys this stuff and the affiliates who promote it don't care how easy the girl is to work with and how hard she works - so I'll take the pinhead/brat/bitch who stands out above the rest over the professional with average looks and personality. it's show biz - look at what shit managers and agents put up with from mainstream actors and actresses and rock stars and rap artists and prima donna pro athletes.

They do if the performance from the pinhead/brat/bitch is not good enough.

Putting up with people who have real talent is something we all have to endure. Putting up with pinhead/brat/bitch girls with no talent is something we should never allow. Letting them get away with it teaches them it's acceptable.

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#47

01-05-2009, 09:14 AM

If you are a reliable model, you will get all kinds of work. People spend big bucks to produce big budget ad campaigns. If you are trying to get a name for yourself as a model, all it takes is a couple late show ups and a couple no shows and your name will be on the bottom of the list. Doesn't matter who you are! Its all about Creditability.

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TarPy

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#48

01-05-2009, 04:00 PM

I hate to be picky, but since we're basically talking about the definitions of these words.

Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1606
1 a: of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b: engaged in one of the learned professions c (1): characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2): exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b: having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c: engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
3: following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>

Main Entry: pro·fes·sion·al·ism
Pronunciation: \-ˈfesh-nə-ˌli-zəm, -ˈfe-shə-nə-ˌli-\
Function: noun
Date: 1856
1 : the conduct, aims, or qualities that characterize or mark a profession or a professional person
2 : the following of a profession (as athletics) for gain or livelihood

I think both of these words cross 2 very different connotations. At pichunter we force anyone who "accepts money for their photos" into the "Porn Site Models" forum, because we take a very olympic definition of the word amatuer. However, I've been told that all of my photos are amateur, yet it's $800 worth of lights and an SLR lens and 8.0+ megapixels.

However no one has ever accused me of lacking "professionalism" on a set. (at a convention bar, sure, but not on set).

certain things are simply polite in any situation. My question is would the models who fail to show up on time for work show up on time or appropriately dressed for anything other than clubs? Grandma's birthday, a date with a guy, a mainstream job, or a shoot?

Some of the people being alluded to lack organization and manners in most if not all situations not just on set.

But hey, if you don't feel a girl is ready to shoot, turn her away at the door. Don't make the mistake of "trying it". If she walks in looking rough, turn her right around no money. That is just business, and is professional.

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PSSuperstars

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#49

01-05-2009, 04:23 PM

One question to ask though..

If you've got a photographer who is used to banging his girls.. or posting on adult message boards saying, "Wow we didn't get much work done that day.."

and the reputation gets around..
How many professional girls do you think you're gonna get?

I think the same question should be asked....
What makes a professional photographer?

Certainly not bragging on an adult messageboard about how many of them fucked him.

Bragging about sales.. new fetish ideas... and a new lighting set... maybe ;) But not talking about how many you fucked...

Last edited by PSSuperstars; 01-05-2009, 04:24 PM.

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