Considering they may be getting sued for buying advertising on all these illegal tube sites in 09?
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Considering the fact that the company is heavily indebted and the only way to pay off its debts is to go public, combined with the current state of the economy and low liquidity in all markets, I'd say RIP FriendFinder.Whitehat is for chumps
If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story! -
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who is going to sue them?want to buy this spot for cheap? it is of course for sale. long term deals are always the best bet. brand0n/ at/ a o l dot commies.Comment
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betcha that dont happen.want to buy this spot for cheap? it is of course for sale. long term deals are always the best bet. brand0n/ at/ a o l dot commies.Comment
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Yeah surprising to learn they *lost* money the past couple years. Thought it was a cash machine.HeatSeek: The iTunes of Porn !
$30 PPS, conversion ratios 10x better than content sites.Comment
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I hate to say this, but they must be a very poorly managed company. Where are they bleeding all that money from? Where's the overhead???jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs ConvertComment
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You don't think the heavy weights in this industry is going to allow this illegal tube sites to keep up what they are doing do you? I think the content producers are going to give power of attorney and then they will be suing. I think Redtube right now is being sued for 4 Mill.
The industry is losing way too much $ for these tubes to continue. A lot of program owners are idiots and got lucky, but the majority of them at least will listen up when their profits begin to shrink.
You can also go after the sponsors who buy advertising on these illegal tubes.Comment
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They had a plan. Build up an amazing presence on the internet and create a huge database of customers and then sell it to a big company for a lot of money. Brilliant actually.
But now the reality sets in for the new "owners". All of those monster sized pre-paid ad spots on big traffic sites costs a lot of money. ROI was bad enough on legit sites the last 4-5 years, but now for the last 2 years they've been dishing it out to torrent sites and tube sites full of stolen content and full members areas.
That traffic is massive. But when you bottom line it to the logical conclusion...it never converts into an actual sale. Just a lot of numbers.
So they keep shelling out a huge monthly advertising budget for nothing. Escpecially since every human being on the face of the Earth already has a free profile on adultfriendfinder
It has been a tremedously profitable business model, but like a lot of things it has run it's course. Time for AFF to adapt. Shouldn't be hard, they are the biggest damn thing in the internet so the potential is there. But on the other hand they are such a big ship, it may be hard to turn her.-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.ComComment
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Yea, the future doesn't look too bright for them, if anything shorting it is the way to go...
Some big adult companies could make some serious bank by partnering up, shorting ton of their stock, and then filing a lawsuit... price will then dip, shorted stocks would then be re-bought for a nice profit... or would that be illegal, considered "insider trading"?Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000
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Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip ManagerComment
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like plentyoffish, just by running adsense - which is paid by profitable dating sites, but at the end profitable dating sites will suffer by free dating sites, so the payouts will be smaller and smaller....
lower margins is inevitable part of every industry, which is maturing. So far we arent at that point, but I think sometimes in the future we will be there...Comment
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Last edited by crockett; 12-25-2008, 04:54 PM.In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.Comment
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With this crisis, I'd stay away from any IPOs.
I'm just a newbie.Comment
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AFF is at a loss at the moment, IMO for anyone that is familiar with stock scams and how the stock market works it is quite ovbious what is going to happen here. If you get the chance, buy a bunch of their stocks when they first enter.Comment
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You write too much and don't read enough.
It has been explained a couple of times already.
The debt doesn't come from a bad business model, or AFF being unprofitable, but from the purchase itself.
The debt has been dumped on AFF's books and now cash needs to be raised to pay the previous owners. AFF is having to pay for AFF.Comment
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Thanks for explaining to me how it all works pimp.
And you're right. I don't put a lot into the wild theorizing that goes on from faceless people on GFY who write about stuff they are unfamiliar with but do so with a very authoritative tone.
What I was trying to communicate was that the business model itself is losing money on a HUGE scale on a monthly basis. And they aren't gonna be able to pay off any loans when the business is losing money. So GFY genius.-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.ComComment
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How many people in this thread could take over a company like Penthouse. Let's wait and see. If things were so obvious and easy we would all be fucking billionaires... Jesus.Comment
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Don t get all excited, just because you file with the SEC doesnt mean you have set a date to go live. I see no date or ticker symbol.
There has Been 1 (mabey 2) IPOs in the last 3 months or so. I wouldnt expect this to happen anytime soon.Comment
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You needed explaining.
Obviously you don't know how to read an IPO and aren't familiar with leverage buy outs.
As for who makes authoritative posts, should I start quoting the 10 paragraph drivel you post on just about any subject?Comment
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Sorry, I missed your last sentence.... had to laugh.
So you aren't into wild theorizing? but you know the business model itself is losing money on a HUGE scale?
Did you read the S-1? Do you know what Notes are?
I'll dumb down LBOs just for you. Manchester United had zero debt. Malcolm Glazer takes over, Manchester United now owes 1.3 billion dollars. The most profitable club in the world is now barely making a penny because it has to service this debt.
Penthouse Media Group lost money last year, we know that much, who the fuck knows if Various would have if they didn't inherit the debt incurred in the buyout.Comment
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Yes numbnuts. I'm actually IN this business and not some guy trying to post about stuff they aren't involved in. I know that AFF pays out prepaid spots. I also know how much those spots are. I also know the value of traffic and which traffic converts. So please STFU and go back to whatever the fuck you do.Sorry, I missed your last sentence.... had to laugh.
So you aren't into wild theorizing? but you know the business model itself is losing money on a HUGE scale?
Did you read the S-1? Do you know what Notes are?
I'll dumb down LBOs just for you. Manchester United had zero debt. Malcolm Glazer takes over, Manchester United now owes 1.3 billion dollars. The most profitable club in the world is now barely making a penny because it has to service this debt.
Penthouse Media Group lost money last year, we know that much, who the fuck knows if Various would have if they didn't inherit the debt incurred in the buyout.
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.ComComment
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You still don't get it. I'll have to dumb it down even more.Yes numbnuts. I'm actually IN this business and not some guy trying to post about stuff they aren't involved in. I know that AFF pays out prepaid spots. I also know how much those spots are. I also know the value of traffic and which traffic converts. So please STFU and go back to whatever the fuck you do.
1. Company A borrows $500 million to buy Claudia-Marie. Company A likes the name Claudia-Marie better so becomes Claudia Marie Networks (formely knowned as Company A).
2. The following year Claudia Marie Networks comes out with its result, of course they are $500 million in debt.
3. A fringe player who thinks he knows everything and everybody in the business goes on about how the Claudia Marie model was flawed and how their prepaid ads weren't profitable etc. etc. when in fact he doesn't know shit
I've dumbed it down just about as much as I could. If your usual "your just a surfer" or the next step "I'll fight you at a convention" you've been using for the past years is all you got don't bother replying.Comment
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Look brother...Let me dumb it down for you...
If a company is doing something on a monthly basis that no longer is viable (spending hundreds of thousand of dollars on traffic that isn't producing monthly), then they need to CUT that and only deal in traffic that is viable.
You can babble on about anything else you want. But as far as being a "fringe" player...no, I have gotten more than my share of money in this business for prepaid spots. And I know a thing or two about what I'm talking about.
Bottom line is if you are losing money monthly...aside from the loan....then you need to make a couple of changes.
The fact that you have somehow latched onto this and think that's not an issue that has to be addressed tells me all I need to know.
I never came into this to try and show my knowledge of a stock offering. I listen to my accountant for advice on that because I don't have the time to work that with my schedule.
But I DO know how to run a business. And bottom line is that you have to make money. If you are losing money every month then it's no good. That was all I was saying in this thread. I have no idea why you jumped at me. But you can now jump the fuck off.-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.ComComment
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From the NYT paper.
"[AFF] posted a net loss of $29.9 million on $48 million in revenue in 2007. For the first nine months of 2008, FriendFinder had operating income of $17.6 million and a net loss of $32.3 million on $244 million in revenue."
So my thinking is their debt is not just from the initial purchase. When a company losing money goes for an IPO, it better have huge upside potential. I'd say AFFs best days are well behind them. If they haven't made money yet, I doubt they ever will.
But like was said earlier, I'm an armchair billionaire. The real billionaires seem to be able to make money out of thin air....at least until the taxpayers bail them out
Last edited by mynameisjim; 12-26-2008, 01:23 PM.jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs ConvertComment
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Yeah...I'll get right on that big man. In case you didn't notice I was laughing at what you said. It's not true. The only time I have ever said that was to people who ARE surfers. Unless you suddenly now want to take up for pussyserver
And trust me my friend. I don't need to "train" Nobodies gonna do shit anyway. You're the one who brought that up. I merely made a joke out of it. But just to be sure I'll keep my eye out for someone named "Slappin Fish"
Weird name. But you can always look for "Robbie" if you feel you'd like to test your "skills" I'm easy to find and don't hide behind nicknames.
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.ComComment
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What I really dont get it is, how the AFF could be bought for 400 milions, when they arent even able to make net earnings...
There is another take on the story, written by will76 on another board (I am reposting it without his permission, so hopefully he wont get angry):
if this is so, it would be really funny to see one of "the most smartest bros" going down. it looks like that "the karma thing" still works...Comment
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Interpretation. AFF as a business made 17.6 million. Once you include interest expense which was about 58 million, it lost 32.3 million.From the NYT paper.
"[AFF] posted a net loss of $29.9 million on $48 million in revenue in 2007. For the first nine months of 2008, FriendFinder had operating income of $17.6 million and a net loss of $32.3 million on $244 million in revenue."
So my thinking is their debt is not just from the initial purchase. When a company losing money goes for an IPO, it better have huge upside potential. I'd say AFFs best days are well behind them. If they haven't made money yet, I doubt they ever will.
But like was said earlier, I'm an armchair billionaire. The real billionaires seem to be able to make money out of thin air....at least until the taxpayers bail them out
So what's sinking the numbers is the interest on the debt. The owners of the debt could foreclose on the current owner, but in all likelihood they'd keep the underlying business runningwhich made 17.6 million last year, they wouldn't just shut up shop because that'd be killing the asset on which they have a lien.Comment
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Do you mean the debt from the acquisition that got dumped on them? I just ask because they lost money in 2007 as well. I'm not sure when the deal with them and PH went down.
Sounds like they made the same type of deal that Sam Zell made when he bought the Tribune. Took on a huge load of debt in hopes to be able to pay it off but the marketplace has changed so much all the creditors are looking for their penalty balloon payments.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/173152
BTW, I'm not arguing, just trying to think out loud and figure this thing out as I think it has some ramifications for the long term health of illegal tube sites. I bet some of these sites make 50% of their revenue from AFF and if it tanks, not too many people are going to be in line to pick up that slack.jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs ConvertComment
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I think I know what the plan was and what the plan is now..
not the best timing for an IPO but they kinda have to do it now or never.9 Years of SOLID payouts and conversions!
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the moral to the story is if someone wants to buy your company. Tell them to come with a big suitcase of cash not a bunch of paper promises.Comment
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I knew you where joking about internext, I was only playing alongYeah...I'll get right on that big man. In case you didn't notice I was laughing at what you said. It's not true. The only time I have ever said that was to people who ARE surfers. Unless you suddenly now want to take up for pussyserver
And trust me my friend. I don't need to "train" Nobodies gonna do shit anyway. You're the one who brought that up. I merely made a joke out of it. But just to be sure I'll keep my eye out for someone named "Slappin Fish"
Weird name. But you can always look for "Robbie" if you feel you'd like to test your "skills" I'm easy to find and don't hide behind nicknames. 
A few rounds of keyboard sparring. All good fun.
I thought I had you on the ropes there for a while, you came back swinging in the last few rounds.
I'll have to remember that when we slug it out at internext.
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