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DAMNMAN

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#1

What is the best DRM system for video?

11-01-2008, 12:03 PM

What is the best DRM system for video?
What the big boys using to protect their content?
What's the price of DRM vs stolen content?
Is there a free linux based alternative?

Interested in some input from knowlegeable folks.

Thanks

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BigPimpCash

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#2

11-01-2008, 12:15 PM

Hmmmm...

I had heard DRM was a no go for porn... as in one or two had tried it and dumped it pretty quick as surfers dont like it... hence sales were effected...

People want to download the content and watch it when they want... yes they share it but that also helps with viral branding...

Just what I heard !

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#3

11-01-2008, 12:20 PM

I would also concur that members/users really don't like DRM. If you obviously must have it, then go for it. Just know that it will definately hurt your overall sales and retention.

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#4

11-01-2008, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by BigPimpCash

I had heard DRM was a no go for porn... as in one or two had tried it and dumped it pretty quick as surfers dont like it... hence sales were effected...

People want to download the content and watch it when they want... yes they share it but that also helps with viral branding...

Just what I heard !

times changed you either secure your content or go out of business have your pick

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#5

11-01-2008, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by Vegas Ken

I would also concur that members/users really don't like DRM. If you obviously must have it, then go for it. Just know that it will definately hurt your overall sales and retention.

it will not hurt your retention if your have unique stuff it will help you make more money than ever

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#6

11-01-2008, 12:23 PM

Streaming model is the way to go to protect your content. Hit me up on Monday if you want to know how to keep your content from getting ripped.
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#7

11-01-2008, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by stickyfingerz

Streaming model is the way to go to protect your content. Hit me up on Monday if you want to know how to keep your content from getting ripped.

please fill us in when you can on details

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#8

11-01-2008, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by EscortBiz

times changed you either secure your content or go out of business have your pick

This is what I was thinking, too. The guys that own GFY DRM all of their content.

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#9

11-01-2008, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by EscortBiz

please fill us in when you can on details

Anyone can feel free to email me about it. Im just not at my desk with icq right now is all.
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#10

11-01-2008, 12:30 PM

Basically, since I am not a huge paysite guy right now and wanted to how a smaller company could secure/DRM content without paying out the ass to do it.

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WarChild

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#11

11-01-2008, 12:32 PM

Every major paysite operation that's ever tried DRM has had to immediately haul it out. Members don't like it plain and simple.

Now agreed, it's the way things SHOULD be done. Unfortunately, for every site you have with DRM content there's probably thousands of other sites in the same niche without. It _WILL_ hurt your retention and anyone who tells you otherwise is simply lying to you.

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#12

11-01-2008, 12:34 PM

EscortBiz

EscortBiz please enlighten me to what companies are using DRM ? When did the industry change... I posted a thread about DRM a year ago or less... and got shot to bits for suggesting it

When did the big move to DRM protected content on paysites happen, please link me to the thread ?

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#13

11-01-2008, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by BigPimpCash

EscortBiz please enlighten me to what companies are using DRM ? When did the industry change... I posted a thread about DRM a year ago or less... and got shot to bits for suggesting it

When did the big move to DRM protected content on paysites happen, please link me to the thread ?

Well you did not understand what I wrote.

a) tons have changed in a year, a year ago id tell you no to DRM as i tried it 3 years ago and pulled it since many had old versions of wmp etc making it a support issue.

b) id say most tube sites and other sites posting stolen content got popular in the past year by 100x so you have to adjust to that if you dont you will follow the many who are losing serious money and closing shop.

c) WMV is no longer the only way to protect, you have flash etc and a new product by MS coming out called silverlight (works both windows and mac), I know nothing works 100% but it will make it harder for people to steal.

d) if your not in the niche business your done anyway I wouldn't worry about securing anything

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#14

11-01-2008, 12:48 PM

Here is my view and I sell DRM for a living.

1. There is no DRM system that is 100% secure. Every one out their can be hacked, just a search in google will give you a ton of tools

2. So far DRM has not been user frindly so you are going to have un happy customers. The most used DRM system (Microsoft DRM) gave so many issues that pissed off a lot of end users.

3. We got clients still using it, their view is that the content more importent to just let go.

4. Better DRM systems are comming to market from Microsoft and Flash but they cost between 50 - 250K and their target market is the major studios.

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#15

11-01-2008, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by jay23

Here is my view and I sell DRM for a living.

1. There is no DRM system that is 100% secure. Every one out their can be hacked, just a search in google will give you a ton of tools

2. So far DRM has not been user frindly so you are going to have un happy customers. The most used DRM system (Microsoft DRM) gave so many issues that pissed off a lot of end users.

3. We got clients still using it, their view is that the content more importent to just let go.

4. Better DRM systems are comming to market from Microsoft and Flash but they cost between 50 - 250K and their target market is the major studios.

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any input about silverlight?

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#16

11-01-2008, 12:52 PM

Hmmm...

Originally posted by EscortBiz

Well you did not understand what I wrote.

a) tons have changed in a year, a year ago id tell you no to DRM as i tried it 3 years ago and pulled it since many had old versions of wmp etc making it a support issue.

b) id say most tube sites and other sites posting stolen content got popular in the past year by 100x so you have to adjust to that if you dont you will follow the many who are losing serious money and closing shop.

c) WMV is no longer the only way to protect, you have flash etc and a new product by MS coming out called silverlight (works both windows and mac), I know nothing works 100% but it will make it harder for people to steal.

d) if your not in the niche business your done anyway I wouldn't worry about securing anything

You said to quote "you either secure your content or go out of business have your pick" so my question is what/how are you suggesting sites secure their content...

You also say in your last post if you aint "niche" your done ??? What do you mean by that, that only niche porn is selling... all solo and multi model sites shouldnt bother ? I am really confused... I know plenty of people making good money off babe sites, teen girl next door, ect ect...

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#17

11-01-2008, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by BigPimpCash

You said to quote "you either secure your content or go out of business have your pick" so my question is what/how are you suggesting sites secure their content...

You also say in your last post if you aint "niche" your done ??? What do you mean by that, that only niche porn is selling... all solo and multi model sites shouldnt bother ? I am really confused... I know plenty of people making good money off babe sites, teen girl next door, ect ect...

I should use the word exclusive content I guess

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#18

11-01-2008, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by EscortBiz

any input about silverlight?

Silverlight supports the new version of DRM system from Microsoft called Playready. I saw few demos at NAB and it seem to work a lot user friendly way then the current system + it works on Mac and PC.

The only down side is MS wants 30K per CPU for Server and then some per lic fee for every lic you issue (like 2 - 10 cents) still its better then what Macromedia wants (250K + Oracle Server)

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#19

11-01-2008, 12:59 PM

I guess the little guy just has to get his stuff ripped off and go out of busniness with those price.

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#20

11-01-2008, 01:01 PM

Well...

Originally posted by EscortBiz

I should use the word exclusive content I guess

ok for exclusive content then... same question... how ? As Jay as just stated any decent DRM (which is still crackable) is going to cost soemwhere between $50-$250k... how many paysite owners can afford that... especially when it's shown that the sites have tried have had bad results through it... who is using it that you know... name me one big programme ?

And I use exclusive content on my paysites... but could never afford DRm even if I thought it wouldnt damage my sales and retention...

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#21

11-01-2008, 01:03 PM

Doug...

Originally posted by DAMNMAN

I guess the little guy just has to get his stuff ripped off and go out of busniness with those price.

Some would argue the stolen stuff is viral marketing... I know some paysite guys who give away a load fo their shit just to get it out there... dont think cause your stuff will get ripped/shared it wont make you money... damn when I first started I always said I would know when I made it when people were stealing my content

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#22

11-01-2008, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by DAMNMAN

I guess the little guy just has to get his stuff ripped off and go out of busniness with those price.

There are ways to do it, and it doesn't cost 30k, or even 2k.
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#23

11-01-2008, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by DAMNMAN

I guess the little guy just has to get his stuff ripped off and go out of busniness with those price.

I've been using Nat Net DRM for a few years now. I'm happy with it and honestly don't give a fuck if I lose some sales over it. It's more important for me to protect my content than worry about losing some sales.
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#24

11-01-2008, 01:11 PM

I own ZMASTER the oldest content company on the Internet and my stuff has been stolen and posted since 1995. People used to fill there members sections with stolen content from me and make $$$. So you know I hate the stolen content thing.
Realitycash's sites are all DRM I'm pretty sure. I haven't seen their stuff posted all over the place either.

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#25

11-01-2008, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by stickyfingerz

There are ways to do it, and it doesn't cost 30k, or even 2k.

Are you talking about encrypted flash? Don't know anything about it but, I have read some things and am Interested in it.

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#26

11-01-2008, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by DAMNMAN

Are you talking about encrypted flash? Don't know anything about it but, I have read some things and am Interested in it.

More or less, but there is more to it than that.
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#27

11-01-2008, 02:20 PM

any system will get bypass eventually so it's better to give clean and make sales with right traffic

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#28

11-01-2008, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by DAMNMAN

Realitycash's sites are all DRM I'm pretty sure. I haven't seen their stuff posted all over the place either.

Reality Cash sites were DRM for a little while in beta and when they launched. It was quickly ripped out an abadoned though as it was with every other major program that ever tried it.

Members don't like DRM. They've been conditioned to expect to download and keep the content they've paid for. The only way to break that conditioning is to change the cycle and make DRM standard amongst paysites. The problem there is that getting unity in the Adult industry is going to be impossible. If your competition doesn't DRM their content, they will steal business from you.

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#29

11-01-2008, 03:04 PM

DRM has been cracked .... Once the user has a valid ' licence ' , one click on a software will make it " no_dmr_filename.ext " ....

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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#30

11-01-2008, 03:17 PM

Hmmmm

So basicly I was right in post number 2 then

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#31

11-01-2008, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by EscortBiz

it will not hurt your retention if your have unique stuff it will help you make more money than ever

Although I agree with your feelings about unique content. DRM will kill even that. DRM is good at securing your content, but make no mistake, DRM will kill your sales.

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#32

11-01-2008, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Vegas Ken

Although I agree with your feelings about unique content. DRM will kill even that. DRM is good at securing your content, but make no mistake, DRM will kill your sales.

You are talking about DRM in the hated old sense.
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#33

11-01-2008, 04:11 PM

Dude...

Originally posted by stickyfingerz

You are talking about DRM in the hated old sense.

There is no old hated sense... people like downloading shit period ! As I have said tell me a BIG programme that runs any kind of DRM ???

Man this is proving way harder than it should of been... why pay thousands of dollars for a system that can be cracked and surfers hate... ???

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#34

11-01-2008, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by BigPimpCash

There is no old hared sense... people like downloading shit period ! As I have said tell me a BIG programme that runs any kind of DRM ???

Man this is proving way harder than it should of been... why pay thousands of dollars for a system that can be cracked and surfers hate... ???

I keep my content IN my members areas. If people want it they sign up. Get over the "if they can't download they will leave crap" people can cling to that lifeboat for as long as they want. While the rest of us get rescued off the Island those giving away their content for a monthly fee can starve on the raft.

Our videos play faster, and are as easy, if not easier to use as Youtubes That is what the consumers are now conditioned for. All this talk about tubesites stealing our traffic should clue people into something.
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#35

11-01-2008, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by WarChild

Every major paysite operation that's ever tried DRM has had to immediately haul it out. Members don't like it plain and simple.

Yes but like 2 yrs ago right? Before the tubes went nuts.

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#36

11-01-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by stickyfingerz

I keep my content IN my members areas. If people want it they sign up. Get over the "if they can't download they will leave crap" people can cling to that lifeboat for as long as they want. While the rest of us get rescued off the Island those giving away their content for a monthly fee can starve on the raft.

Our videos play faster, and are as easy, if not easier to use as Youtubes That is what the consumers are now conditioned for. All this talk about tubesites stealing our traffic should clue people into something.

Yes, I bet you'll be left standing with your DRM when the likes of Top Bucks, RK Net Media and Traffic Cash Gold fall.

Sticky, you're a little program, period. You really have no idea.

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#37

11-01-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by WarChild

Yes, I bet you'll be left standing with your DRM when the likes of Top Bucks, RK Net Media and Traffic Cash Gold fall.

Sticky, you're a little program, period. You really have no idea.

You can have your opinions its fine. If you want to see what we do to protect our content Im glad to show you. What big programs do doesn't matter to me right now. We are doing what is needed to keep our content "our" content.

Btw I don't call it DRM because that is what the old .wmv stuff was called, and now everyone lumps it all into that piece of shit that surfers hated. Ours isn't even realized by most of the surfers that are members.

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#38

11-01-2008, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by stickyfingerz

You can have your opinions its fine. If you want to see what we do to protect our content Im glad to show you. What big programs do doesn't matter to me right now. We are doing what is needed to keep our content "our" content.

Btw I don't call it DRM because that is what the old .wmv stuff was called, and now everyone lumps it all into that piece of shit that surfers hated. Ours isn't even realized by most of the surfers that are members.

Look man...You use CCBill's DRM tool. PERIOD.

You keep posting as if you have some big fucking secret DRM thing you need to hide from the general public.

Stop trying to over inflate your self worth with these bullshit posts.
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#39

11-01-2008, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by AaronM

Look man...You use CCBill's DRM tool. PERIOD.

You keep posting as if you have some big fucking secret DRM thing you need to hide from the general public.

Stop trying to over inflate your self worth with these bullshit posts.

No I do not. I use cavecreek CDN for our encrypted flash streaming. I don't use any of their DRM tools. I had something developed thanks. Again if you want to know more hit me up.
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#40

11-01-2008, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by stickyfingerz

You can have your opinions its fine. If you want to see what we do to protect our content Im glad to show you. What big programs do doesn't matter to me right now. We are doing what is needed to keep our content "our" content.

Btw I don't call it DRM because that is what the old .wmv stuff was called, and now everyone lumps it all into that piece of shit that surfers hated. Ours isn't even realized by most of the surfers that are members.

All bullshit aside, the reason why I've never given your program much of a chance is because you've never really have any significant traffic of your own. You came on to the scene doing content and this and that but never from a really strong affiliate background.

I'm getting the attention of literally millions of views a day. I have had a lot of traffic for quite awhile. I know what traffic wants, I see the patterns, I understand it. I can't take a picture to save my life and I can't stand being around the "talent", but I know traffic.

See, you make a big deal of protecting _YOUR_ content. As if taking the content away from people who are never going to pay for your content anyways is worth making things difficult for people that will or are paying. Bottom line is you are taking a hit on retention, no doubt about it.

Let's be realistic for a second here. Nobody is running around the net at a frantic pace to get ahold of the latest Dixie Dash (Or whatever her name is) content, bumping in to a lack of it on torrents and tubes and running off to buy a membership because they've just got to have it. That might be true of someone like Jordan Capri, but I'm afraid it isn't true (at least yet) of any of your models. If you're the next Steve Lightspeed remains to be seen but at this point you're not exactly the next big thing on the Internet.

I wouldn't be surprised if by properly watermarking and seeding your own content plus ripping out DRM you doubled your internal sales. I'm not kidding about that either. If making sure free loaders abso-smurfly don't get to see your precious, precious content is more imporant to you than your bottom line then I guess you're on the right track.

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#41

11-01-2008, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by WarChild

All bullshit aside, the reason why I've never given your program much of a chance is because you've never really have any significant traffic of your own. You came on to the scene doing content and this and that but never from a really strong affiliate background.

I'm getting the attention of literally millions of views a day. I have had a lot of traffic for quite awhile. I know what traffic wants, I see the patterns, I understand it. I can't take a picture to save my life and I can't stand being around the "talent", but I know traffic.

See, you make a big deal of protecting _YOUR_ content. As if taking the content away from people who are never going to pay for your content anyways is worth making things difficult for people that will or are paying. Bottom line is you are taking a hit on retention, no doubt about it.

Let's be realistic for a second here. Nobody is running around the net at a frantic pace to get ahold of the latest Dixie Dash (Or whatever her name is) content, bumping in to a lack of it on torrents and tubes and running off to buy a membership because they've just got to have it. That might be true of someone like Jordan Capri, but I'm afraid it isn't true (at least yet) of any of your models. If you're the next Steve Lightspeed remains to be seen but at this point you're not exactly the next big thing on the Internet.

I wouldn't be surprised if by properly watermarking and seeding your own content plus ripping out DRM you doubled your internal sales. I'm not kidding about that either. If making sure free loaders abso-smurfly don't get to see your precious, precious content is more imporant to you than your bottom line then I guess you're on the right track.

I agree with you on a ton of things there. I am aware how much interest sites like BangBus, Ideepthroat, and a bunch of others that got well known due to p2p. I have argued your side for a long time. Saying the gloom and doom over tubes and torrents isn't a lot to worry about. I understand that all.

I have done affiliate marketing since 2005 before I got into content I was learning how to develop traffic. Im not huge but run about 1 million uniques a month across my own network of sites. I have 131 domains at the moment. All but like 5 are developed and taking traffic. Im not a huge traffic guy no, but I increase our traffic everyday.

All I can tell you guys that doubt what we are doing hit me up, and Ill show you. Anyways enough biz talk tonight its time to puff puff pass and relax. lol
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BigPimpCash

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Join Date: Jul 2006

Posts: 808
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#42

11-01-2008, 08:45 PM

Hmmm...

On a side note I want to be the next Steve Lightspeed... I met him once you know

BIG PIMP CASH - Upto 70% Revshare and Upto 30$ PPS
[email protected] - ICQ - 197119155

Need Content ? TRASHY CONTENT
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tony286

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Join Date: Aug 2002

Posts: 57021
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#43

11-01-2008, 08:58 PM

Remove your content is a great company.They work hard.Im very happy with them, I used to do it myself but it annoyed the shit out of me. I think going embedded flash may be the future. I think the trick how to do it is to create a new site as part of a network and get people used to it. I think taking a site that's been down loadable and changing the rules is going to hurt be time and with things being off to start not the best time to experiment.
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